Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[Johnyfooty]

What do you expect? Getting to the Championship with Berwick in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Add to that you're a part-time team in a full time league, so you're going to be struggling right off the bat. Better to build your team up over a few seasons when playing at that level. Also gives your finances time to build so that when you get to the Championship, the board will be more willing to turn the club full time. Although with Berwick, you're unlikely to ever get really good crowds.

And your ME feedback - if all of it is happening against your club as you say - can be fixed tactically, although it may just be that your players simply aren't good enough for the level you're at.

So apparently the reaction to feedback has come to the point of "what did you expect? That winning the game would actually be reflected? Stay low for ever like the AI is supposed to scrub."

Sorry, but no.

And it wouldn't even matter if he stayed for more time in the lower league, because reputation gains are extremely small anyway. So even if he DID stay there, players would still not want to join him when he got promoted many seasons later.

[Jimmious7]

Interestingly enough, I'm also playing Berwick Rangers and also got two promotions in a row. And yes the season in Championship was hard, even though we had a great start, we started losing uncontrollably at some point and most of the conceded goals would be goalie or defender flukes...

I think the biggest issue is neither the semi-pro status of the club or the ME but more the lack of scouting range. You simply can't see anyone outside England and Scotland and that makes your options...limited to say the least.

I'm constantly fighting with the board to increase our scouting range but no luck as of yet!

veers I'd love to share experiences with you (Lee Currie for the win!!)

[Dagenham_Dave]

So apparently the reaction to feedback has come to the point of "what did you expect? That winning the game would actually be reflected? Stay low for ever like the AI is supposed to scrub."

Sorry, but no.

No, that is the reaction to HIS feedback based on the club HE is managing in the country HE has chosen.

And it wouldn't even matter if he stayed for more time in the lower league, because reputation gains are extremely small anyway. So even if he DID stay there, players would still not want to join him when he got promoted many seasons later.

Actually it would matter. The players you can sign as a professional club eclipse those you can sign when you are semi professional. Your board will only agree to go professional at that level if you have the finances to support it. So, staying in the bottom two leagues for an extra couple of seasons, possibly selling a good young player for a nice profit, and getting a solid financial base will help in the long run.

Say Berwick got a back to back promotion in real life over the next couple of season. Want to put a bet on how they'd do in the Championship the following season?

[Johnyfooty]

Say Berwick got a back to back promotion in real life over the next couple of season. Want to put a bet on how they'd do in the Championship the following season?

That would depend entirely on their chairman and the amount of money he would bother investing. Or how much he would be willing to go into debt for the hope of staying up.

But since real life negotiations are nothing like FMs, it would probably be different to sign players.

You are right, chances are that they wouldn't stay up, but it wouldn't be because every player would flick them off the moment they said hello to him.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You are right, chances are that they wouldn't stay up, but it wouldn't be because every player would flick them off the moment they said hello to him.

In Berwick's case, that's pretty much what would happen.

I support a team in real life that's been in this exact situation. Being one of the only part time teams in a full time league means you will probably already have most of the better part time players anyway, and full time players will simply not be interested, so it's a nightmare trying to attract players of the required quality to stay in the division.

EDIT - In previous FMs it was a lot easier, as semi-professional players from all around the world would jump ship and move to this country for a couple of hundred pounds a week. Thankfully that's been nerfed in this version, as that was a completely unrealistic scenario.

[Beestonite]

Oh of course yep I'm certainly not arguing against the Chelsea result. Yep it happens, probably my fault from changing from counter to defensive!! The game just seems to have the feel of a lot of randomness with regard to results. You beat Liverpool away 3-1 and in the next game you lose 1-0 to 19th placed Southampton at home, then you draw at home 2-2 to Man United then get thumped 4-1 away at Everton. Yep it happens IRL but with the game there doesn't seem much reasoning behind it. Is it tactics, team talks, morale, there seems to be a lot of guess work about the inconsistency. I went on a 6 match unbeaten run then lost three in a row conceding 12 goals in those three games. Maybe I just can't see what is happening which is odd because in previous incarnations I didn't have much problem but that's why IMO everything is so random.

Bang on. I hate to say it as it's quite negative, but I totally agree with what you're saying here.

[BiggusD]

In Berwick's case, that's pretty much what would happen.

I support a team in real life that's been in this exact situation. Being one of the only part time teams in a full time league means you will probably already have most of the better part time players anyway, and full time players will simply not be interested, so it's a nightmare trying to attract players of the required quality to stay in the division.

EDIT - In previous FMs it was a lot easier, as semi-professional players from all around the world would jump ship and move to this country for a couple of hundred pounds a week. Thankfully that's been nerfed in this version, as that was a completely unrealistic scenario.

Actually, what could happen is that the local and even national investors saw an opportunity to tag on to a success story and go in with enough money to make the club competitive. Everyone likes the minnow, the outsider. I think the likelyhood of the complete lack of investment or budget increase and a complete radio silence from the board and the media are far smaller than the likelyhood of getting new investors and sponsorships attached to the club.

[Wesley6]

- well documented first touch problem

- players can't dribble, just run in a straight line with the ball. If their is a defender in line with them they get tackled, if not they will run down the length of the pitch

- players can't kick the ball hard enough. We give the ball away countless times because when there is a simple pass we just don't kick the ball hard enough and it doesn't reach the player

- defenders are superhuman. As mentioned, impossible to dribble past a defender in the way, the slowest center backs are able to keep pace with the fastest strikers, they can pull off perfect slide tackles from way behind the striker when they have no hope of getting the ball in reality

- players just stand still and watch the ball roll slowly a meter past them, often while another team mate sprints 30 meters to try and get the ball

- players just leaving the ball behind/tripping over the ball when sprinting

- team mates running into each other/the ball so we lose possession

[milnerpoint]

Actually, what could happen is that the local and even national investors saw an opportunity to tag on to a success story and go in with enough money to make the club competitive. Everyone likes the minnow, the outsider. I think the likelyhood of the complete lack of investment or budget increase and a complete radio silence from the board and the media are far smaller than the likelyhood of getting new investors and sponsorships attached to the club.

I disagree. See what happened to Gretna. They certainly did not attract investment despite their underdog story, reaching the top flight in 4 years and getting to a major cup final. They now no longer exist in the same fashion.

[arsenalpfh]

I've finally had enough, gonna have to upload a highlight which shows two of my big issues

1. Players misplacing (usually underhitting) very simple short and mid range passes. It would be strange if it was merely decent players but we're talking people like Ozil/Wilshere/Cazorla

2. Defenders seemingly not bothering to chase the ball and/or taking up completely illogical positions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVdbUt6STOE

Ozil does this a lot, my others too but Ozil especially. He just passes it straight to the defender in front of Cazorla. No attempt to switch it to the wide player, or go to this left, or play it in front of Cazorla, or even hold on to it, just straight to them

Then as the through ball is played, Koscielny and to a lesser extent Mertesacker stand and watch Llorente waltz past with no attempt to move until he's well clear

Bizzare

[milnerpoint]

I've finally had enough, gonna have to upload a highlight which shows two of my big issues

1. Players misplacing (usually underhitting) very simple short and mid range passes. It would be strange if it was merely decent players but we're talking people like Ozil/Wilshere/Cazorla

2. Defenders seemingly not bothering to chase the ball and/or taking up completely illogical positions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVdbUt6STOE

Ozil does this a lot, my others too but Ozil especially. He just passes it straight to the defender in front of Cazorla. No attempt to switch it to the wide player, or go to this left, or play it in front of Cazorla, or even hold on to it, just straight to them

Then as the through ball is played, Koscielny and to a lesser extent Mertesacker stand and watch Llorente waltz past with no attempt to move until he's well clear

Bizzare

He doesnt just pass to the defender. He tries to pass to the player and its intercepted, this happens in football all the time, i really fail to see the issue with that video at all.

[Wesley6]

I think the issue is that he is playing that pass to Cazorla even though there is no way it can possibly get to him. Passes are open to the two widemen yet he chooses the ******** option. Also if Ozil is anything like he is on my game, that will have happened EVERY single time he has had the ball. He cannot control the ball, he cannot dribble and he can't pass.

[arsenalpfh]

Because he constantly does it, and he has Passing 19, Technique 19, Anticipation 16, Creativity 19, Decisions 17...

It's not that he's trying ambitious plays and failing. Time and time again short, simple passes like that are completely botched which isn't realistic at all. And he isn't the only one.

Not to mention the defending

[CityAndColour]

He doesnt just pass to the defender. He tries to pass to the player and its intercepted, this happens in football all the time, i really fail to see the issue with that video at all.

The pass is appalling and something that seems to happen a lot. He should be trying to play it through the gap to his right midfielder, not slowly putting it straight to a visible opponent.

Players do seem to have an issue with vision, in that they often his passes straight into or at an opponent.

[milnerpoint]

The pass is appalling and something that seems to happen a lot. He should be trying to play it through the gap to his right midfielder, not slowly putting it straight to a visible opponent.

Players do seem to have an issue with vision, in that they often his passes straight into or at an opponent.

Well lets look at it when he passes the ball,

The pass you say to the right is equally as dangerous as the ball he tries to play. Both players in those instances are well marked. The only pass he probably should have been looking at was far right with the unmarked player wide, but again i see no issue with him trying that pass to the attacker and failing. Its hardly as the post made out anyway, he didnt just pass to the defender.

[milnerpoint]

I think the issue is that he is playing that pass to Cazorla even though there is no way it can possibly get to him. Passes are open to the two widemen yet he chooses the ******** option. Also if Ozil is anything like he is on my game, that will have happened EVERY single time he has had the ball. He cannot control the ball, he cannot dribble and he can't pass.

Care to back any of that up with proof?

[Beestonite]

I've finally had enough, gonna have to upload a highlight which shows two of my big issues

1. Players misplacing (usually underhitting) very simple short and mid range passes. It would be strange if it was merely decent players but we're talking people like Ozil/Wilshere/Cazorla

2. Defenders seemingly not bothering to chase the ball and/or taking up completely illogical positions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVdbUt6STOE

Ozil does this a lot, my others too but Ozil especially. He just passes it straight to the defender in front of Cazorla. No attempt to switch it to the wide player, or go to this left, or play it in front of Cazorla, or even hold on to it, just straight to them

Then as the through ball is played, Koscielny and to a lesser extent Mertesacker stand and watch Llorente waltz past with no attempt to move until he's well clear

Bizzare

Personally, the thing I'd have more of an issue with is the way the long ball over the top isn't dealt with. It's just a misplaced pass isn't it? But for a hoof over the top to turn into a chance so 'easily' is happening all too often.

Really that type of ball should be bread and butter for a Defender.

Edit: If you look at the CD's they don't react for at least a good second and a half after the ball is played, yet the striker does. They only react after the Striker is tearing down the middle, were they reading a book or something? Both of them?

[milnerpoint]

Personally, the thing I'd have more of an issue with is the way the long ball over the top isn't dealt with. It's just a misplaced pass isn't it? But for a hoof over the top to turn into a chance so 'easily' is happening all too often.

Really that type of ball should be bread and butter for a Defender.

Edit: If you look at the CD's they don't react for at least a good second and a half after the ball is played, yet the striker does. They only react after the Striker is tearing down the middle, were they reading a book or something? Both of them?

Yeah your right that is the issue in the vid, not the misplaced pass by Ozil.

[arsenalpfh]

To be fair I brought up both issues

And it's the frequency it happens that is bad. If that happened every now and then you'd accept it

[CityAndColour]

The pass you say to the right is equally as dangerous as the ball he tries to play. Both players in those instances are well marked. The only pass he probably should have been looking at was far right with the unmarked player wide, but again i see no issue with him trying that pass to the attacker and failing. Its hardly as the post made out anyway, he didnt just pass to the defender.

It's not only misplaced, it's woefully under hit. Put an Arsenal shirt on the defender and it would still be a poor pass, as it barely even reaches him!

Your screen shot pretty much shows the issue. At the time of his pass, there is a gap right in Ozil's eye line to his right winger. A player of his quality should always be attempting that pass. Instead he dribbles it to a defender who again is right in his eye line. Unless he's completely stubbed his toe (possible I guess) it's horrendous, and all too common.

[Beestonite]

Yeah your right that is the issue in the vid, not the misplaced pass by Ozil.

Annoyingly the player (who receives the misplaced pass) who passes (hoofs) the ball shouldn't even try that ball in my opinion. It's not even a ball through, it's more of a clearance in my opinion. Given the position he receives the ball in, why would he try such a pass (in real life)?

Surely he'd try to control the ball and run it out, or at the very least try to pass to a closer team mate. That sort of viewing takes me back to the Crazy Gang.

[milnerpoint]

It's not only misplaced, it's woefully under hit. Put an Arsenal shirt on the defender and it would still be a poor pass, as it barely even reaches him!

Your screen shot pretty much shows the issue. At the time of his pass, there is a gap right in Ozil's eye line to his right winger. A player of his quality should always be attempting that pass. Instead he dribbles it to a defender who again is right in his eye line. Unless he's completely stubbed his toe (possible I guess) it's horrendous, and all too common.

An underhit pass is still misplaced. Your right he should be looking far right, but that doesnt mean its a bug, players dont always choose the right option, in this occasion he chose the wrong pass.

[milnerpoint]

Annoyingly the player (who receives the misplaced pass) who passes (hoofs) the ball shouldn't even try that ball in my opinion. It's not even a ball through, it's more of a clearance in my opinion. Given the position he receives the ball in, why would he try such a pass (in real life)?

Surely he'd try to control the ball and run it out, or at the very least try to pass to a closer team mate. That sort of viewing takes me back to the Crazy Gang.

Well yeah that is very true. The fact a clearance like that turns into a perfect through ball, that the defenders stand and watch is the big problem that vid shows. The ball itself should not be anywhere near as accurate as it is and the defenders just watch the ball and neither reacts quick enough.

[BiggusD]

I disagree. See what happened to Gretna. They certainly did not attract investment despite their underdog story, reaching the top flight in 4 years and getting to a major cup final. They now no longer exist in the same fashion.

And this can also happen after a success story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2412812/Crawley-Town-small-team-big-ambitions.html

Edit: I guess Yeovil is closer to the point I want to make.

[Svenc]

please SI fix this German bug and fix ME as soon as possible!...i wanna play my game now when im on vacation! and i dont wanna play this with so many bugs!

Just curious, what is this German bug? I'm curious because I frequent the largest (and only) German FM community, and since most of the members are managing in Germany naturally, that bug should be all over the place. However, whilst there is a bug thread, I can't find any such. For what it is worth, I don't see the crazy amount of goals you experience in 3. Liga either, and partly since a local side is playing in it, I have simulated the 3. Liga (and all of Germany) on full multiple times now to check how things develop. I think it was flagged by SI that in certain lower leagues the average amount of goals could be too high a couple weeks ago already. Is this a custom database or possibly lots of additional user files applied, by any chance?

[Beestonite]

To be fair I brought up both issues

And it's the frequency it happens that is bad. If that happened every now and then you'd accept it

Yeah I know you did. It was just the emphasis others were placing on the misplaced pass which made me highlight what I felt was the main issue in the video.

Is this an issue which is being looked into by SI? I don't know.

[PratoJoe]

Or....the last update is always bundled with the transfer update at approximately the same time each year.

So...now, transfers are closed.

Any idea of when the patch came out?

[Dagenham_Dave]

So...now, transfers are closed.

Any idea of when the patch came out?

Yesterday. There's now no corners at all in any game. It's quite something.

[RTHerringbone]

So...now, transfers are closed.

Any idea of when the patch came out?

Plenty of transfer windows are still open across Europe:

http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/leagues_transfer_window.htm

[Jimmious7]

So.... Beginning of March most probably

[mortiis7]

i think most of us dont care one bit about tranfers...we are waiting for ME fix and german bug fix...

[Pelz]

Tackling success is really starting to 'bug' me now (excuse the pun).

Just had my 4th game of the season where the oppositions tackling success rate was 100%, a narrow 2-1 defeat vs PSV with the same old story of goals scored and conceded solely from corners. As frustrating as the amount of corners and subsequent goals scored from them are this pales into insignificance when compared with problems that arise from tackling and I believe goes a long way into explaining why big teams with high amounts of creative and attacking talent are regularly beaten by massively inferior sides.

I really hope the 'its your tactics' brigade keep quiet and look at this objectively for once, because I've been mulling over it all morning and can think of no way in which this does not seriously affect the game. For example, if you're playing versus a side that win every single tackle they go for then it really doesn't matter what tactics you deploy – the outcome will always be the same. Try and play through the middle and you'll be running into walls, time after time, try and play on the counter and a last ditch tackle will ultimately end any chances you have of a break away (vice versa, if you're playing a little deeper and the opposition attempt to win the ball off of one of your players attempting to pass it to another then they will, you'll be caught deep in your own half, try to win the ball back yourself, do so and pin ball ensues)... Wingers, highly technical ones at that cannot make one successful dribble past another and, if on the odd occasion they do get to the byline due to a little extra space free to run into it's a well known issue that the resultant cross will simply be blocked and go out for a corner – then it's a flip of a coin whether you or the opposition score from it or not.

Again, because of last ditch tackling always being successful strikers struggle to get shots away, creative central midfielders are unable to shield the ball effectively and look for another option because as soon as an attempted tackle comes in you've lost the ball. Attributes go out of the window, perhaps unless your incredibly gifted and pacey wide man is a little low on the bravery side. May as well put a lamb to the slaughter.

Millions upon millions can be spent amassing the greatest collective talent ever known – could throw Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aguero on and the result will always be the same – any attempt to win the ball back by a side who are consistently on the defensive due to your stature or game plan, etc, will result in success, your attack breaks down and you begin again, resorting to taking long pot shots at goal due to not being able to go around a 42 year old Jari Litmanen who for some reason in excelling at left back.

The game then comes down to a matter of luck and who on the day will get it, a ricochet here or there, get on the end of one of the countless horrific clearances from goalkeepers (you may even find a goalkeeper simply walking the ball into his own net to give you that all important goal). Skill, by and large, becomes meaningless.

I watch a lot (an awful lot) of football at many levels (it's a joy at the Madejski at the moment, I must say ) and would suggest that a tackling success of around 60-65% should be regarded as excellent, fifty percent about average and anything lower could be regarded as a little less so. A hundred percent is simply insane and considering I can recall very few if any games so far where the rate drops much below ninety percent can only conclude that this is, indeed, a 'game breaking' bug.

Someone, somewhere may have a way of playing which counteracts this but then the game comes down to solving puzzles presented by the match engine and gets further and further away from what it should be doing – simulating football!

I'm stumped!

[PratoJoe]

Yesterday. There's now no corners at all in any game. It's quite something.

Thinking about it...

Corners completely wrong or no corners...it's the same.

Hoping that they fixed the others bugs.

Plenty of transfer windows are still open across Europe:

http://www.epfl-europeanleagues.com/leagues_transfer_window.htm

That's ok.

So the patch came out when all the transfer windows will close?

March maybe?

April/May considering Norway and Sweden?

[marin_bar]

Hi,

I'm new in FM, so I wanna know do I need to install all the patches, or will the last one be enough, by that I mean that all fixes from previous patches are included in the last?

[milnerpoint]

Hi,

I'm new in FM, so I wanna know do I need to install all the patches, or will the last one be enough, by that I mean that all fixes from previous patches are included in the last?

You dont need to do anything, when you install it through Steam all the updates will be applied automatically.

[mortiscausa]

Yesterday. There's now no corners at all in any game. It's quite something.

Quality feedback here as always Dave as always. Are you guys seeing what I call "ice sliding passes" ? Situation where player turns in direction and befor executing a pass he slides a bit ?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Just had my 4th game of the season where the oppositions tackling success rate was 100%, a narrow 2-1 defeat vs PSV with the same old story of goals scored and conceded solely from corners. As frustrating as the amount of corners and subsequent goals scored from them are this pales into insignificance when compared with problems that arise from tackling and I believe goes a long way into explaining why big teams with high amounts of creative and attacking talent are regularly beaten by massively inferior sides.

I've had games in the past where I've won comfortably with great flowing moves from defence to attack, all goals from open play and the opposition has still shown as winning 100% of tackles. There have also been games where I've been well beaten and I've won 100% of tackles.

I now no longer even look at this stat, as I don't think it actually represents what's happening in the game properly, in much the same way as the CCC stat.

Actually, the only match stats I pay any real attention to are posession, passing stats, and overall shots on goal. That along with actually watching the match gives me most of what I need from the game.

Tackling in the game itself seems to be fairly consistent throughout. I certainly don't think it has a massive bearing on results, certainly not that I've seen anyway.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Quality feedback here as always Dave as always. Are you guys seeing what I call "ice sliding passes" ? Situation where player turns in direction and befor executing a pass he slides a bit ?

I was answering a stupid question with a stupid answer. Do keep up, there's a good chap.

[Wesley6]

Tackling success is really starting to 'bug' me now (excuse the pun).

Just had my 4th game of the season where the oppositions tackling success rate was 100%, a narrow 2-1 defeat vs PSV with the same old story of goals scored and conceded solely from corners. As frustrating as the amount of corners and subsequent goals scored from them are this pales into insignificance when compared with problems that arise from tackling and I believe goes a long way into explaining why big teams with high amounts of creative and attacking talent are regularly beaten by massively inferior sides.

I really hope the 'its your tactics' brigade keep quiet and look at this objectively for once, because I've been mulling over it all morning and can think of no way in which this does seriously affect the game. For example, if you're playing versus a side that win every single tackle they go for then it really doesn't matter what tactics you deploy – the outcome will always be the same. Try and play through the middle and you'll be running into walls, time after time, try and play on the counter and a last ditch tackle will ultimately end any chances you have of a break away (vice versa, if you're playing a little deeper and the opposition attempt to win the ball off of one of your players attempting to pass it to another then they will, you'll be caught deep in your own half, try to win the ball back yourself, do so and pin ball ensues)... Wingers, highly technical ones at that cannot make one successful dribble past another and, if on the odd occasion they do get to the byline due to a little extra space free to run into it's a well known issue that the resultant cross will simply be blocked and go out for a corner – then it's a flip of a coin whether you or the opposition score from it or not.

Again, because of last ditch tackling always being successful strikers struggle to get shots away, creative central midfielders are unable to shield the ball effectively and look for another option because as soon as an attempted tackle comes in you've lost the ball. Attributes go out of the window, perhaps unless your incredibly gifted and pacey wide man is a little low on the bravery side. May as well put a lamb to the slaughter.

Millions upon millions can be spent amassing the greatest collective talent ever known – could throw Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aguero on and the result will always be the same – any attempt to win the ball back by a side who are consistently on the defensive due to your stature or game plan, etc, will result in success, your attack breaks down and you begin again, resorting to taking long pot shots at goal due to not being able to go around a 42 year old Jari Litmanen who for some reason in excelling at left back.

The game then comes down to a matter of luck and who on the day will get it, a ricochet here or there, get on the end of one of the countless horrific clearances from goalkeepers (you may even find a goalkeeper simply walking the ball into his own net to give you that all important goal). Skill, by and large, becomes meaningless.

I watch a lot (an awful lot) of football at many levels (it's a joy at the Madejski at the moment, I must say ) and would suggest that a tackling success of around 60-65% should be regarded as excellent, fifty percent about average and anything lower could be regarded as a little less so. A hundred percent is simply insane and considering I can recall very few if any games so far where the rate drops much below ninety percent can only conclude that this is, indeed, a 'game breaking' bug.

Someone, somewhere may have a way of playing which counteracts this but then the game comes down to solving puzzles presented by the match engine and gets further and further away from what it should be doing – simulating football!

I'm stumped!

Yes, I have to agree on all these points. It's ridiculous how superhuman defenders are on this patch. I have just looked through the stats on my game, only in three matches has the opposition's tackle success been below 85%. Sunderland managed 82% against a front line of Cazorla, Ozil, AOC and Giroud.

Certainly ruining the game for me, I don't want to watch my side win games through penalties and corners.

[Wesley6]

I've had games in the past where I've won comfortably with great flowing moves from defence to attack, all goals from open play and the opposition has still shown as winning 100% of tackles. There have also been games where I've been well beaten and I've won 100% of tackles.

I now no longer even look at this stat, as I don't think it actually represents what's happening in the game properly, in much the same way as the CCC stat.

Actually, the only match stats I pay any real attention to are posession, passing stats, and overall shots on goal. That along with actually watching the match gives me most of what I need from the game.

Tackling in the game itself seems to be fairly consistent throughout. I certainly don't think it has a massive bearing on results, certainly not that I've seen anyway.

See I would disagree with this. I watch the games on full and have yet to see any player for myself or the opposition beat his marker.

Players do not dribble on this patch they run in straight lines, if a player is in the way they will get tackled (this also counts for players on their own team who will often stand in the way and get run into). The only time a player is beaten is when they are on the wings and they aren't directly infront of the player and the winger can charge in a straight line to the byline where he will slow down and kick it off the defender for a corner.

[veers]

What do you expect? Getting to the Championship with Berwick in two seasons is pretty unrealistic. Add to that you're a part-time team in a full time league, so you're going to be struggling right off the bat. Better to build your team up over a few seasons when playing at that level. Also gives your finances time to build so that when you get to the Championship, the board will be more willing to turn the club full time. Although with Berwick, you're unlikely to ever get really good crowds.

And your ME feedback - if all of it is happening against your club as you say - can be fixed tactically, although it may just be that your players simply aren't good enough for the level you're at.

I don't think you understand. I was expecting a difficult season given my part time status and lack of funds. I was not expecting 7-0 shellackings when I adopted a defensive strategy and had 4 star players on my entire team. Also, for some reason my fullbacks and keeper always get terrible ratings, even when they play well. I would have 7 men back, and a simple long ball would pass by all of them. That is not tactics, that is a bug. No defender would just let the strikers get behind them over and over again. Note that I did not play for offside, set my defensive line to drop deeper, and also set one DC to cover, and STILL they let the strikers get behind them over and over again. This was also happening in the lower leagues, but at least over there I would score enough goals to compensate.

[Jibby123]

I don't think you understand. I was expecting a difficult season given my part time status and lack of funds. I was not expecting 7-0 shellackings when I adopted a defensive strategy and had 4 star players on my entire team. Also, for some reason my fullbacks and keeper always get terrible ratings, even when they play well. I would have 7 men back, and a simple long ball would pass by all of them. That is not tactics, that is a bug. No defender would just let the strikers get behind them over and over again. Note that I did not play for offside, set my defensive line to drop deeper, and also set one DC to cover, and STILL they let the strikers get behind them over and over again. This was also happening in the lower leagues, but at least over there I would score enough goals to compensate.

That sounds like a tactical gap, not so much ME. I'd agree that tactics are not user-friendly enough to learn on this game as it's not always clear to see where you're going wrong, but the tactics forum can help you there (and many others, but they know where it is), have you tried that route? Post that tactic up and listen to the advice that you will get. It might be lightbulb moment-ish.

Whether you should need to visit a tactics forum to enjoy a game is a different argument. I'd not disagree with anyone saying that!

[Svenc]

I really hope the 'its your tactics' brigade keep quiet and look at this objectively for once, because I've been mulling over it all morning and can think of no way in which this does seriously affect the game.

I don't think anybody truly objected to this, in fact it is widespread knowledge that firstly tackling success ratios are significantly higher in FM than in real football (have always been, long before FM 2014) and that secondly defending relies overly on successful tacklings. SI are aware of this too, that's obvious from recent ME patches they announced in which it was made clear that they'd be cautious about this due to the already too high number of successful tacklings. Arguably the latter is the cause of how the ME modelsl defending in general, there is lots of isolated closingn down, but few in terms of collective pressing the team in possession. As a result, the match play HAS to rely more on tacklings rather than balls being intercepted or players being pushed to give the ball away than in real footie.

This hasn't been any different before though, at least looking at the statistics. intriguingly, as I already pointed out, if you look at the dribbling statistics, those are completely off the charts currently even for merely "decent" dribblers, which would contradict the claim that individual skill means naught. Whilst they aren't 100% reliable, those are numbers that have changed completely as opposed to tackling success ratios, which have always been highish all throughout the history of FM.

Tackling success ratio comparison FM 2012/2014 full match detail:

http://i.imgur.com/YahCvMh.png

http://i.imgur.com/PBUNZeu.png

Successful dribblings FM 2012/2014 full match detail:

http://i.imgur.com/It838KL.png

http://i.imgur.com/Mj8HUV9.png

Reference point: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1773581-top-10-dribblers-in-la-liga-this-season

I'm more inclined that AI teams underperforming could be at least interrelated to tactical choice here and there. Case in point: The AI isn't all that clever as many think it is. At least it's not human players exclusively that try to ram their heads through a brick wall when the opposition sets up one such. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383468-Anyone-ever-seen-this-happen

[Beestonite]

I don't think you understand. I was expecting a difficult season given my part time status and lack of funds. I was not expecting 7-0 shellackings when I adopted a defensive strategy and had 4 star players on my entire team. Also, for some reason my fullbacks and keeper always get terrible ratings, even when they play well. I would have 7 men back, and a simple long ball would pass by all of them. That is not tactics, that is a bug. No defender would just let the strikers get behind them over and over again. Note that I did not play for offside, set my defensive line to drop deeper, and also set one DC to cover, and STILL they let the strikers get behind them over and over again. This was also happening in the lower leagues, but at least over there I would score enough goals to compensate.

I think what you're referring to is similar to the clip we saw earlier. A long ball over the top where the defenders just stand and watch until it's too late. I agree, it's not acceptable and hope it will be fixed.

[themadsheep2001]

I don't think anybody truly objected to this, in fact it is widespread knowledge that firstly tackling success ratios are significantly higher in FM than in real football (have always been, long before FM 2014) and that secondly defending relies overly on successful tacklings. SI are aware of this too, that's obvious from recent ME patches they announced in which it was made clear that they'd be cautious about this due to the already too high number of successful tacklings. Arguably the latter is the cause of how the ME modelsl defending in general, there is lots of isolated closingn down, but few in terms of collective pressing the team in possession. As a result, the match play HAS to rely more on tacklings rather than balls being intercepted or players being pushed to give the ball away than in real footie. This hasn't been any different before though, at least looking at the statistics. intriguingly, as I already pointed out, if you look at the dribbling statistics, those are completely off the charts currently even for merely "decent" dribblers, which would contradict the claim that individual skill means naught. Whilst they aren't 100% reliable, those are numbers that have changed completely as opposed to tackling success ratios, which have always been highish all throughout the history of FM. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378442-Football-Manager-2014-Update-14.2.2-Feedback-Thread?p=9347833&viewfull=1#post9347833

I'm more inclined that AI teams underperforming could be at least interrelated to tactical choice here and there. Case in point: The AI isn't all that clever as many think it is. At least it's not human players exclusively that try to ram their heads through a brick wall when the opposition sets up one such. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383468-Anyone-ever-seen-this-happen

Accurate as ever Svenc, not sure why people need to see things as "sides" and make digs

[Dagenham_Dave]

I adopted a defensive strategy and had 4 star players on my entire team..

Star ratings are relative to your own team only, and not the rest of the division. A (slightly) more reliable yardstick is the AM report which will tell you that player A would be a decent player for Division B, etc etc.

[milnerpoint]

I don't think anybody truly objected to this, in fact it is widespread knowledge that firstly tackling success ratios are significantly higher in FM than in real football (have always been, long before FM 2014) and that secondly defending relies overly on successful tacklings. SI are aware of this too, that's obvious from recent ME patches they announced in which it was made clear that they'd be cautious about this due to the already too high number of successful tacklings. Arguably the latter is the cause of how the ME modelsl defending in general, there is lots of isolated closingn down, but few in terms of collective pressing the team in possession. As a result, the match play HAS to rely more on tacklings rather than balls being intercepted or players being pushed to give the ball away than in real footie.

This hasn't been any different before though, at least looking at the statistics. intriguingly, as I already pointed out, if you look at the dribbling statistics, those are completely off the charts currently even for merely "decent" dribblers, which would contradict the claim that individual skill means naught. Whilst they aren't 100% reliable, those are numbers that have changed completely as opposed to tackling success ratios, which have always been highish all throughout the history of FM. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/378442-Football-Manager-2014-Update-14.2.2-Feedback-Thread?p=9347833&viewfull=1#post9347833

I'm more inclined that AI teams underperforming could be at least interrelated to tactical choice here and there. Case in point: The AI isn't all that clever as many think it is. At least it's not human players exclusively that try to ram their heads through a brick wall when the opposition sets up one such. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/383468-Anyone-ever-seen-this-happen

As always, kudos

[veers]

Star ratings are relative to your own team only, and not the rest of the division. A (slightly) more reliable yardstick is the AM report which will tell you that player A would be a decent player for Division B, etc etc.

My AM with good judging player ability ratings says they are more than adequate for the league. I set them up very solidly and am still getting spanked due to TERRIBLE defender mistakes. Not sure what else to say, really hope the patch improves defender positioning and tackling.

[Johnyfooty]

Right now the majority of goals are:

a) From corners, either directly or after an initial bounce.

b) Own goals

c) Long range overhead passes that the defense seems to have zero point of understanding towards and the striker gets a free shot in the goal. (in fact, these passes sometimes even happen from the keeper.) The defense is just hopeless when it happens, they barely move.

And despite that, I've seen quite a lot different goal types, which makes it even more sad, because it indicates that variety does exist, but it's currently suppressed somewhat from the ME calculations.

Other than that, ball movement is better than last year, even though it needs some adjustments still. Slowing down still needs some work. I've had it go out of bounds towards those commercial signs and it kept spinning and spinning, as if it was dedicated to piercing a hole to the sign. Even if the force it was shot with was that big, it would normally bounce upwards and over it or back into the pitch. Surely wouldn't keep spinning with such fervor to penetrating the sign.

Not sure if it's just me, but injuries seem to be on a weird spot again. Occurance rates are pretty much the same, but so far I've had a bit too many serious injuries. 4 players tearing muscles and staying out for 6 months each within 26 matches seems excessive.

And of course woodworks, but I think that for once I'll agree that there's more important issues to fix first.

[Dagenham_Dave]

My AM with good judging player ability ratings says they are more than adequate for the league. I set them up very solidly and am still getting spanked due to TERRIBLE defender mistakes. Not sure what else to say, really hope the patch improves defender positioning and tackling.

Surely the opposition defending is just as bad, no? I'm more inclined to think you're getting beat comfortably every week due to your players/ tactics simply not being good enough because you've gone up two leagues in successive seasons. It's easier to get away with that in England as the majority of teams are full time, Scotland is a different beast. Believe me, I've managed enough at that level to know how it works.

There are issues with defensive decisions at various points in a game which is getting looked at, but this affects all teams, so there should be no advantage/disadvantage to the user.

It's interesting to once again note that this has only become an issue for you as soon as you've stopped winning. Take a step back and think about that. Also, posting your set up in the tactics forum could also be beneficial. Surely better to explore all avenues before claiming the game to be broken?