The Guardiola pressing game - And how to press the same way on FM14

[cmonreds]

Fluidity is basically a mentality and creative freedom structure. If you want more fluid mentality structure, but still want to limit the creative freedom, then you can always select fluid/very fluid along with "be more discipline" TI.

With rigid, does the F9 drop back deep enough and do the IFs advance ahead of him?

Thanks for the tips. Will seriously look into it. With rigid the F9 drops more seldom as deep as with VeryFluid. He still passes the ball to the IF in the space behind the defenders. But, it is more player dependant if this is done. Also it is from higher up the pitch. When playing with VeryFluid all the players played in the F9 role did this earlier on when dropping deeper.

The possession I am getting with Rigid is averaging very high. The passing is very good. But too make the F9 fall a little deeper I will check out your tip. If it is possible to acchieve the passing as with Rigid and making the F9 drop deeper.

[cmonreds]

Here are the average positions, dribbles and passing stats for the F9 with rigid and very fluid philosophy. It is from a match against the same opposition. In both matches the respective tactics were 100 percent fluid in all areas. Because of injuries there were minor changes to the team (two players), Aspas was the F9 in both matches. Rigid to the left and very fluid to the right.

When playing with Very fluid the F9 acted more as the playmaker. He more often played ball behind the defenders for the IF to run onto. He got three key passes with Very Fluid compared to nill with Rigid.

[yonko]

This is a great experiment. I like what I see and this confirms something to me, which I just posted about in the Philosophy debate thread.

The formation we are using (GK-2CDs, 2FBs, DM, 2CMs, AMR+L, ST) has a lot of layers (5 to be exact, 6 if we count the GK) by default. To me, fluidities like Very Rigid and Rigid are also structures that add layers....to any formation. So if we use Rigid with 4-1-2-2-1 formation, it's like adding layers into more layers. That is not good IMO and it's definitely not what Barca's system is about.

Now, we don't know for a fact what kind of instructions the F9 roles has and how the mentality and creative freedom are related to the rest of the team through the various fluidity structures. But I think we can safely assume that it has lower mentality and higher creative freedom. Still, I'm not surprised that the F9 role is more effective in a Very Fluid set up vs in a Rigid set up. That's because in a Very Fluid structure, the F9 being the only playmaking role in the team, still has slightly lower mentality and slightly more CF than the players around him - the 2 IFs and the 2CMs. And if the players in these 4 positions are with good attributes and instructions for movement, then the F9 is surrounded with multiple options in multiple directions. This then becomes very useful and great weapon against teams/formations with no DM. Just out of curiosity, did the opponents in your experiment used a formation with a DM at any point during the game? If they did, did you notice any difference in the effectiveness of the F9 or your team's attack in general?

Another thing: I would be curious to see the same experiment with a Balanced fluidity and the effect it has on the role of the F9 as well as the whole attack. Assuming of course that you use the same roles and duties you posted further above in post #136.

[cmonreds]

This is what I am trying to acchieve:

Scroll down to the video:

http://123fotball.wordpress.com/

[w3t]

This is a really great discussion.

I started half a month ago again and tried to replicate Guardiolas Barcelona, I've already tried that in FM2013 but it never quite worked. In 2014 i tried several things, had a high amount of good chances and really good possession statistics. But due to injury problems (half of the team injured 2 times over some weeks) + Moral Problems of my Strikers after their injuries I couldnt get the edge to turn it.

So two days i started from scratch ago and found this thread. Additonally were reading some additional stuff about how to adjust your tactic against your opponent. It really makes fun to analyze the enemies strength and weaknesses, I never did this to this excess.

In the first league games I had a good amount of chances now and win most games, but possession drops down. I think its mostly due to the fact that my opponents really push up and try to press, too. But Tactic is not fully trained now so I'll wait for that. And I really want to give the higher tempo a try again. Im on much lower tempo right now.

What bothers me the most in both games is that my central middlefielders are both stick up together most of the time. When I am in possession and the ball goes wide both of them try to position themselves close to the flank. Example: Ball is on Neymar on the Left, Iniesta (AP-Get Further Forward) and Xavi (DLP-Roaming) are adjusting to the left. I would prefer it when Xavi would stay more centered, so the ball could be moved faster from one flank to the other so that the defense constantly has to adjust.

So far thanks and keep it up

[cmonreds]

This is a great experiment. I like what I see and this confirms something to me, which I just posted about in the Philosophy debate thread.

The formation we are using (GK-2CDs, 2FBs, DM, 2CMs, AMR+L, ST) has a lot of layers (5 to be exact, 6 if we count the GK) by default. To me, fluidities like Very Rigid and Rigid are also structures that add layers....to any formation. So if we use Rigid with 4-1-2-2-1 formation, it's like adding layers into more layers. That is not good IMO and it's definitely not what Barca's system is about.

Now, we don't know for a fact what kind of instructions the F9 roles has and how the mentality and creative freedom are related to the rest of the team through the various fluidity structures. But I think we can safely assume that it has lower mentality and higher creative freedom. Still, I'm not surprised that the F9 role is more effective in a Very Fluid set up vs in a Rigid set up. That's because in a Very Fluid structure, the F9 being the only playmaking role in the team, still has slightly lower mentality and slightly more CF than the players around him - the 2 IFs and the 2CMs. And if the players in these 4 positions are with good attributes and instructions for movement, then the F9 is surrounded with multiple options in multiple directions. This then becomes very useful and great weapon against teams/formations with no DM. Just out of curiosity, did the opponents in your experiment used a formation with a DM at any point during the game? If they did, did you notice any difference in the effectiveness of the F9 or your team's attack in general?

Another thing: I would be curious to see the same experiment with a Balanced fluidity and the effect it has on the role of the F9 as well as the whole attack. Assuming of course that you use the same roles and duties you posted further above in post #136.

It is the same tactic as posted in post #136 used for the experiment. When using VeryFluid philosophy I also use TI more disciplined. I have played almost fifteen games with the tactic from post #136 on Very Fluid/MoreDisciplined. So far it seems that with Rigid the possession average a few points higher in total, but overall the goals scored and points collected are better with the VeryFluid setting.

What would be interesting though is to start off from scratch with testing the combinations of philosophy/strategy, turning every stone and find out what combinations gives overall highest possession/best defence/pressing and CCC`s. We all have an opinion of what Tiki Taka is, this would make it clearer on how to implement it into FM. Have a discussion about what are the trademarks of this style of play. Which Team Instructions as well as Player instructions are necessary/suited to create such tactics.

What I have considered/used when trying to create tiki taka tactics are combinations of Control/Attacking/Overload and every philosophy from very rigid to very fluid. I am still not absolutely sure that I have found the optimal combination. If I had to settle for one, it would be Control/VeryFluid. But I simply don`t have the time to test everything with the tactics creator. A group of people testing different approaches would be a great way of assembling a collective knowledge that would benefit everybody.

[yonko]

It is the same tactic as posted in post #136 used for the experiment. When using VeryFluid philosophy I also use TI more disciplined. I have played almost fifteen games with the tactic from post #136 on Very Fluid/MoreDisciplined. So far it seems that with Rigid the possession average a few points higher in total, but overall the goals scored and points collected are better with the VeryFluid setting.

Does the F9 take a lot of long shots with Very Fluid+be more disciplined? Are the individual instructions from post #136 the same in the experiment? I assume you've played those games with Liverpool. Which players have you used in each role - F9, IFs, CMs?

What would be interesting though is to start off from scratch with testing the combinations of philosophy/strategy, turning every stone and find out what combinations gives overall highest possession/best defence/pressing and CCC`s. We all have an opinion of what Tiki Taka is, this would make it clearer on how to implement it into FM. Have a discussion about what are the trademarks of this style of play. Which Team Instructions as well as Player instructions are necessary/suited to create such tactics.

I recommend you buy and read this: http://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Tiki-Taka-Style-Play/dp/0957670540

It does an excellent job explaining everything, as well as mentioning the evolution and the different versions of tiki-taka. It also talks about different coaches implementing it differently. It really is a great source, although not everything can be implemented into FM, but there are many helpful things in that book.

What I have considered/used when trying to create tiki taka tactics are combinations of Control/Attacking/Overload and every philosophy from very rigid to very fluid. I am still not absolutely sure that I have found the optimal combination. If I had to settle for one, it would be Control/VeryFluid. But I simply don`t have the time to test everything with the tactics creator. A group of people testing different approaches would be a great way of assembling a collective knowledge that would benefit everybody.

Specifically about Guardiola's Barca, in terms of attacking shape and the team during the attacking phase of play, the fluidity I feel best represents that in FM is the Balanced fluidity. Only with that fluidity one can recreate to the full effect the wing backs becoming wingers, the F9 dropping as deep, the IFs cutting inside and ahead of the F9 and generally creating all the layers Pep's system included in the attacking phase. The only question is how well does the Balanced fluidity help with the defensive phase of Guardiola's system, mainly the high pressing game. Maybe Very Fluid is the better approach when it comes to that. But then we are talking about two different fluidities, one for each phase of play - Balanced for Attacking phase and Very Fluid for Defensive phase. We know that in FM we can't use two different styles/fluidities for each phase of play. So what is the solution? Fluid, as compromise between Balanced and Very Fluid? Is it really a compromise?

Personally, my opinion is that Pep's Barca is best represented with Balanced fluidity. And if that is not enough in terms of the defensive/pressing phase, then perhaps the use of Opposition Instructions where "close down always" is set on everyone is necessary.

[cmonreds]

Does the F9 take a lot of long shots with Very Fluid+be more disciplined? Are the individual instructions from post #136 the same in the experiment? I assume you've played those games with Liverpool. Which players have you used in each role - F9, IFs, CMs?

I recommend you buy and read this: http://www.amazon.com/Coaching-Tiki-Taka-Style-Play/dp/0957670540

It does an excellent job explaining everything, as well as mentioning the evolution and the different versions of tiki-taka. It also talks about different coaches implementing it differently. It really is a great source, although not everything can be implemented into FM, but there are many helpful things in that book.

Specifically about Guardiola's Barca, in terms of attacking shape and the team during the attacking phase of play, the fluidity I feel best represents that in FM is the Balanced fluidity. Only with that fluidity one can recreate to the full effect the wing backs becoming wingers, the F9 dropping as deep, the IFs cutting inside and ahead of the F9 and generally creating all the layers Pep's system included in the attacking phase. The only question is how well does the Balanced fluidity help with the defensive phase of Guardiola's system, mainly the high pressing game. Maybe Very Fluid is the better approach when it comes to that. But then we are talking about two different fluidities, one for each phase of play - Balanced for Attacking phase and Very Fluid for Defensive phase. We know that in FM we can't use two different styles/fluidities for each phase of play. So what is the solution? Fluid, as compromise between Balanced and Very Fluid? Is it really a compromise?

Personally, my opinion is that Pep's Barca is best represented with Balanced fluidity. And if that is not enough in terms of the defensive/pressing phase, then perhaps the use of Opposition Instructions where "close down always" is set on everyone is necessary.

Everything is set like in post #136 with the exception of philosophy and the TI mentioned. The book is already read along with other books about the subject. You mention it yourselves. Different philopsophies add different advantages to the game. For me right now it is more of a question to settle with a tactic and play the game again.

Very fluid in my experience offers by far the best defensive record so far with this tactic. I have tested out the Box to box midfielder/s in the CM position. It adds an extra dimension offensively. I currently feel that I am very close to reach the finish line with regards to creating a tactic that I am satiesfied with.

[yonko]

Can you post a screenshot of the average positions using your set up, please?

When you say that Very Fluid offers by far the best defensive record, what do you mean? Statistically allowing the lowest goals against or in terms of pressing, regaining possession, interceptions, tackles, etc.?

[jean.lamy84]

Again very interesting contributions.

For cmonreds, I'm going to restart a game with Barcelona in order to test my tactic with original barcelona players.

I'm going keep Control/Very fluid system and focus on finding the good combination of Team Instruction / Player instructions / Player preferred moves.

As read here it seems that PPM's override instructions whatever creative freedom you have given to your players. The TI "More expressive" will just instruct your players to use their creativity / intelligence to decide how often they will try to follow their intuition. In my understanding, if for example my player has PPM "Plays one/two", if I set "More expressive" he will make more one/two than by default.

I'm going to try to avoid contrasting PPM with instruction (TI, PI or OI).

I will post soon the exact formation/instructions and players instructions/ppm.

I will make test on Liga matches (for example 5) and try to find the best combinations.

[w3t]

Can you post a screenshot of the average positions using your set up, please?

When you say that Very Fluid offers by far the best defensive record, what do you mean? Statistically allowing the lowest goals against or in terms of pressing, regaining possession, interceptions, tackles, etc.?

I think he means the formation specified in #23 and his defensive record is shown in #33.

As already stated I have begun a new career, too.

Control - Very Fluid

My Formation:

My Team Instructions:

My Player Instructions:

SK - Pass it shorter- Distribute To Defenders

FB(switched between Attack, Automatic) - Stay Wider- Get Further Forward -Cross Aim Near Post- Shoot Less Often

BPD (Stopper, Defender) -Get Further Forward - Close Down More- Pass it shorter

CD(Cover, Defender) - Pass it shorter

DM ( switched between Half-Back, Regista and DLP) Close Down More- Pass it shorter

DLP - Roaming- Close Down More - (Pass it shorter)

AP (switced between Attack and Support) - Run wide with Ball - (Pass it shorter)-(Dribble More)

IF (Attack) left one Roaming right one Get Further Forward - Cross Aim Near Post-Shoot Less Often - (Pass it shorter)

DLF (Attack) - Dribble More - Roaming - Shoot Less Often - (More Risky Passes)

I am not fully aware of all the Instructions and don't know what exactly overrides what, but I thought I could post it.

[petergoddard]

Again very interesting contributions.

For cmonreds, I'm going to restart a game with Barcelona in order to test my tactic with original barcelona players.

I'm going keep Control/Very fluid system and focus on finding the good combination of Team Instruction / Player instructions / Player preferred moves.

As read here it seems that PPM's override instructions whatever creative freedom you have given to your players. The TI "More expressive" will just instruct your players to use their creativity / intelligence to decide how often they will try to follow their intuition. In my understanding, if for example my player has PPM "Plays one/two", if I set "More expressive" he will make more one/two than by default.

I'm going to try to avoid contrasting PPM with instruction (TI, PI or OI).

I will post soon the exact formation/instructions and players instructions/ppm.

I will make test on Liga matches (for example 5) and try to find the best combinations.

I think ppm's are essential when using fluid philosophies because players have more CF and top of this we use the instruction More Expressive (altough this can be optional because CF is already high). Allowing the player to have more CF is also allowing him to choose his preferences, this means, his ppm's. If you reduce the CF from the player, decreasing his power to decide, then we will not go so often for his ppm's but will try to follow your instructions

[Cleon]

Again very interesting contributions.

For cmonreds, I'm going to restart a game with Barcelona in order to test my tactic with original barcelona players.

I'm going keep Control/Very fluid system and focus on finding the good combination of Team Instruction / Player instructions / Player preferred moves.

As read here it seems that PPM's override instructions whatever creative freedom you have given to your players. The TI "More expressive" will just instruct your players to use their creativity / intelligence to decide how often they will try to follow their intuition. In my understanding, if for example my player has PPM "Plays one/two", if I set "More expressive" he will make more one/two than by default.

I'm going to try to avoid contrasting PPM with instruction (TI, PI or OI).

I will post soon the exact formation/instructions and players instructions/ppm.

I will make test on Liga matches (for example 5) and try to find the best combinations.

That article isn't true. PPM's don't override anything, they just make the player attempt the said move more and what determines this is the players decision making. His decision making will determine how/when/frequency its used hence why someone with low decision making might not make the most use of whatever PPM he has.

[mikcheck]

Cleon i was going to ask something related to PPM's but since you've said that, i will make it here.

I have a deep lying playmaker dmc with stops play PPM. This doesnt mean that he will be always doing that even when a good counter attack opportunity arises, right? If he is an intelligent player, he will know when is the best time to use it, is that it?

[Cleon]

Cleon i was going to ask something related to PPM's but since you've said that, i will make it here.

I have a deep lying playmaker dmc with stops play PPM. This doesnt mean that he will be always doing that even when a good counter attack opportunity arises, right? If he is an intelligent player, he will know when is the best time to use it, is that it?

Yeah he will, I tend to like my DLP's to have that one too

[cmonreds]

I can`t decide if the Rigid or VeryFluid tactic is the best. If anyone wants to give it a go and give their advice you are welcome. Note that PassIntoSpace is added.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/u78ujth2fqoejmi/433_TikiTaka_Balanced(Rigid).tac

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bzo2xggd58niu5h/433_TikiTaka_Balanced(VeryFluid).tac

I am currently starting a new game with Nantes in the french top division. It should be a good challenge. I will play with the VeryFluid tactic.

[mikcheck]

Thanks Cleon.

[jean.lamy84]

That article isn't true. PPM's don't override anything, they just make the player attempt the said move more and what determines this is the players decision making. His decision making will determine how/when/frequency its used hence why someone with low decision making might not make the most use of whatever PPM he has.

Thanks for you precision! I will be happy if you can give us more explanation. For me this article seems good. For example if a player has "Shoot from distance" PPM, I will be able to reduce this by setting "Shoot less often" but I will never be able to make him stop shooting from distance apart from unlearning this PPM.

I think what is stated in this article is to be very careful on PPM regarding instruction to not create to many contrasting combinations.

But maybe you have more information on this.

[Cleon]

Thanks for you precision! I will be happy if you can give us more explanation. For me this article seems good. For example if a player has "Shoot from distance" PPM, I will be able to reduce this by setting "Shoot less often" but I will never be able to make him stop shooting from distance apart from unlearning this PPM.

I think what is stated in this article is to be very careful on PPM regarding instruction to not create to many contrasting combinations.

But maybe you have more information on this.

You can't really offset it like that despite what people seem to think. People thought PPM's were slider instructions and that you could manipulate them however there more player tendencies than actual instructions. So regardless of what the settings are the player will still decide to use his PPM when he feels its needed i.e his decision making etc.

Guide to FM is a decent site for beginners but they also have a lot of incorrect stuff on there too and claim something works one way when it doesn't.

[jean.lamy84]

You can't really offset it like that despite what people seem to think. People thought PPM's were slider instructions and that you could manipulate them however there more player tendencies than actual instructions. So regardless of what the settings are the player will still decide to use his PPM when he feels its needed i.e his decision making etc.

Guide to FM is a decent site for beginners but they also have a lot of incorrect stuff on there too and claim something works one way when it doesn't.

I understand. Thanks. At the same level, does an instruction at team and player level is different than setting it only at a team level?

For example "Shorter passing". If I set it to team instruction and players, has it the same result than only setting it at team level?

[Cleon]

I understand. Thanks. At the same level, does an instruction at team and player level is different than setting it only at a team level?

For example "Shorter passing". If I set it to team instruction and players, has it the same result than only setting it at team level?

Individual instructions override team ones.

[Mrmuto]

I can`t decide if the Rigid or VeryFluid tactic is the best. If anyone wants to give it a go and give their advice you are welcome. Note that PassIntoSpace is added.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/u78ujth2fqoejmi/433_TikiTaka_Balanced(Rigid).tac

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bzo2xggd58niu5h/433_TikiTaka_Balanced(VeryFluid).tac

I am currently starting a new game with Nantes in the french top division. It should be a good challenge. I will play with the VeryFluid tactic.

WOW The very fluid tactic is great..first game out of home against tottenham with my liverpool crashed them 2-0 a lot of chances created great defence.

[petergoddard]

WOW The very fluid tactic is great..first game out of home against tottenham with my liverpool crashed them 2-0 a lot of chances created great defence.

More fluid, more the players contribute for more aspects of the game, meaning that defenders will attack more and attackers will defend more. I have always played very fluid, either Control, either Attack, but always very fluid. I don't want 11 players, I want 11 players as one

[cmonreds]

WOW The very fluid tactic is great..first game out of home against tottenham with my liverpool crashed them 2-0 a lot of chances created great defence.

Playing with the VeryFluid tactic with Nantes in France. Media prediction is number 19. The team isn`t very good neither specially suited for this style. Have played untill the beginning of october. I am really satiesfied with the play. Both in regards to possession and clear cut chances created.

I mentioned that I am playing with TI Pass into space as well. It is not selected in the uploaded tactic. This TI I use as an offensive tool. I unselect it whenever I don`t need to score goals. This TI changes the teams Fluidity with your tactic almost to none if selecting it in a match.

I also play with a more cautious version of the tactic. It is only the risktaking with regards to passing that is changed. The two CM`s and the F9 passing instructions are tweaked to less risky passes. This to encourage to keep possession more.

[yonko]

I see that you've only played 7 friendlies during the pre-season. Did that make your tactic at full familiarity? I'm guessing it didn't.

I also see that you beat PSG 3-2 at home. How was that game? Can you post some analysis shots from it?

[cmonreds]

I see that you've only played 7 friendlies during the pre-season. Did that make your tactic at full familiarity? I'm guessing it didn't.

I also see that you beat PSG 3-2 at home. How was that game? Can you post some analysis shots from it?

We reached full familiarity with the tactics during august. I never play more than 6-7 pre-season friendlies. Two first weeks of the pre-season is dedicated to heavy fitness training. I don`t want to play matches/too many matches within this period. This to avoid injuries.

The game against PSG was a thriller I will post pictures from it. But first I must mention that I have experienced something that I never have experienced before on FM. In my first season before the end of November the Nantes board offered me a new contract Normally this has been offered around the month of March. The picture below might show the reason why:

Match stats vs PSG:

[Mrmuto]

We reached full familiarity with the tactics during august. I never play more than 6-7 pre-season friendlies. Two first weeks of the pre-season is dedicated to heavy fitness training. I don`t want to play matches/too many matches within this period. This to avoid injuries.

The game against PSG was a thriller I will post pictures from it. But first I must mention that I have experienced something that I never have experienced before on FM. In my first season before the end of November the Nantes board offered me a new contract Normally this has been offered around the month of March. The picture below might show the reason why:

Match stats vs PSG:

That's great! when you finishing with the testing you have to post a thread and explain how to use it right...I just lost to chelsea home 1-0 they had to win 3/4-0 I had just 2 shots the whole game.

I think it happened because I dont really know how to use it.

[prophetu]

Hello...Just read through most of this post...Awesome!! Tried to replicate the tactic and later downloaded. The pressing looks great, I have never seen so many interceptions and opp mistakes in their own half or close to midfield. I can say that the pressing part is way better than anything I saw. But...the results are not great. 1-1-4 and familiarity is around 3/4 as I was playing my similar 4-3-3. (playing Liverpool) I have more shots, but they have more ccs as they exploit the space between my advanced wb and the cd, also both my CD move to the side the other team is attacking...leaving the centre of the box with my fb and 2-3 opposition players.

Later edit: It seems that any chance I give away is converted by the opposition

[petergoddard]

Just to share with you guys

2nd season, Champions League - group stage

No huge signigns, I don't like to. Just tactics, instructions and lots of ppm's.

My tactic is described at the 1st page of this thread, it's my interpretation of Barca, maybe not so accurate but it works just fine.

And once more, thank you for the two reviews and comments.

[Mrmuto]

Just to share with you guys

2nd season, Champions League - group stage

No huge signigns, I don't like to. Just tactics, instructions and lots of ppm's.

My tactic is described at the 1st page of this thread, it's my interpretation of Barca, maybe not so accurate but it works just fine.

And once more, thank you for the two reviews and comments.

Can you upload it please?

[petergoddard]

Can you upload it please?

You have the complete description at the bottom of the 1st page, you can set it easily and start training ppm's :-)

[yonko]

Why does he need to upload it? Because you are too lazy to read post #98 on the first page and copy his instructions?

[petergoddard]

Maybe, I will give it a try with some other teams, although I don't believe this will work in minor teams against stronger ones.

[peleJunior]

Maybe, I will give it a try with some other teams, although I don't believe this will work in minor teams against stronger ones.

For laughs I tried it with a league 1 Irish side, they still played hoofball.

[petergoddard]

Just updated post 98 because there was an important information missing. My apologies to those who have tried and might not have liked the results.

[cmonreds]

I have played 36 matches of the first season with Nantes. Just lost 0-1 against OM and Toulouse. The Champions League train will most probably leave without Nantes this time. There has been quite a few injuries this season. For the last couple of matches both the first choice wingbacks are out. The replacements aren`t of a caliber to play CL football. Also the first choice striker has been injured for four months during the season. I had to release some decent players to make room within the salary budget, to be able to sign a free transfer striker in the January window.

Overall I am very satiesfied with the tactic. We have the majority of possession in all matches. We are equal or better/far better at chance creation. I have saved the tactic in three versions. They are as follows:

Balanced version: As the uploaded VeryFluid tactic. Just add pass into space.

Cautious version: Same as balanced. Adjust F9 and both CM`s passing to less risky.

Adventurous version: Same as balanced. Both wingbacks are given attacking duty. Their dribbling are set to less as well as fewer risky passes removed.

Pass into space can be removed during the matches when using all three versions. This is done to control the matches further. Preventing loss of possession with counter-attacks against. Still by doing this sometimes my teams scores up to three goals in a relative short period of time. The full understanding of why this is so effective I haven`t acchieved yet. Therefore I don`t want to make statements about this yet.

OM won the Champions League the first season. As a result the french league are allocated one more team to enter the competition. Nantes ended 4th. We reached the CL train in the last minute

[Mrmuto]

Can you upload it please?

Ohh sorry really didn't seen that information! will try it ! THX

Edit: Why dont you use an F9?

[yonko]

Balanced version: As the uploaded VeryFluid tactic. Just add pass into space.

Cautious version: Same as balanced. Adjust F9 and both CM`s passing to less risky.

Adventurous version: Same as balanced. Both wingbacks are given attacking duty. Their dribbling are set to less as well as fewer risky passes removed.

I don't get what is so adventurous then in the adventurous version.

[cmonreds]

I don't get what is so adventurous then in the adventurous version.

Attacking fullbacks. It is more adventurous in the sence that there are more players on attacking duties.

[mydreamteam]

Great thread........I am a big fan of the pressing game and have created a pressing tactic with the following principles:

1 Solid defence

2 Single pivot *the busquets role*

3 Lions share of possession

4 Bring Youth Players in to the First Team Set Up.

the tactic I created is called "tecnico e posse futbol'

I decided to start a career at FC Porto and was given a budget of around 9m. The first thing I did was to improve the coaching by bringing in better quality coaches with the emphasis on getting the best coaches for each area and focusing on technique...ball control.

The set up of my tactic is:4-1-2-2-1 which looks like a 4-3-3

GK.Sweeper Keeper

RB.Complete Wing Back

DC.Ball Playing Defender

DC.Complete Defender

LB. Complete Wing Back

DM.Regista

CM.Advanced Playmaker

CM.Box to Box Midfielder

AML.Inside Forward

AMR.Inside Forward

CF. Complete Forward.....I Used a False Nine For the first 4 months but swopped after feeling I was not getting the best out of my Striker

With a tight budget I decided to accept offers for 2 players in the first team set up and also move some of the fringe players out who I thought would not be in my plans.

Danilo was sold for 10M And Mangala left for 7M. This allowed me to bring in Centre Back Balanta who is a beast and Wing Back Marcos Rocha and Eduardo on loan from Shahkter and Lucas Anderson loan from Ajax

My Side Lined Up As Follows:

GK.Sweeper Keeper.............Helton

RB.Complete Wing Back........Marcos Rocha/Fucile

DC.Ball Playing Defender.......Balanta/Maicon

DC.Complete Defender.........Ottemendi/Maicon

LB. Complete Wing Back.......Alex Sandro/ Rafa

DM.Regista........................Diego Reyes* Superb Player who was averaging over 100 passes per game / Fernando

CM.Advanced Playmaker......Juan Fernando Quintero* Again another 80 to 100 Passes per game / Josue

CM.Box to Box Midfielder......Lucho Gonzalez/ Hector Herrera

AML.Inside Forward.............Kelvin/Josue/Anderson

AMR.Inside Forward............Eduardo/Varela/Anderson

CF. Complete Forward.........Jackson Martinez / Kleber

Training was tailored on a week to week basis depending on opposition with an higher focus on tactics and ball control during pre season and match training on attacking movement.

once the season was underway I switched the training between each area weekly and the match training again tailored to opposition.

I also had my youth team use the first team tactic.

My opposition instructions were also tailored to scouting updates match by match so I used micro instructions based on this but always closed down every player including goalkeepers.....................what I achieved was constant High Possession stats....High Passing Stats....A Solid Defence with many clean sheets.

Season 1 my FC Porto side won the league title by a mile and also won the Supertaca but my most pleasing part of the season is reaching the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL by using a side made up with a blend of first team players and youth players every game knocking out Arsenalin the last 16 on the way after scraping through the group stage on the last matchday. We lost the Final 2-1 against Man Utd.

It as been one of my most enjoyable saves so far by tailoring each game but using just the one tactic both Home and Away in every competition. I am going to carry on my FC PORTO save but also try and test this philosophy with other clubs of varying levels.

I may then release 'tecnico e posse futbol' to the FM Community.

thanks again for this thread I will be following it every day.............some great posts well done to all.

[deosays]

Does anybody make a successful tactic, possession or pressing, with different formation?

I'm trying real hard to make it work with 3-4-3 and 3-5-2, for example, how to make the "single" wingers (wide midfielders/wingbacks) press the opponents who have "double" wingers (IFs and WBs).

Sorry for my bad english.

[yonko]

Attacking fullbacks. It is more adventurous in the sence that there are more players on attacking duties.

But what deference does the attacking duty make in Very Fluid, especially considering that you instruct the WBs to dribble less? It doesn't change their mentality and it doesn't make them do more runs in attack, compare to a support duty with the instructions you already have/had.

[w3t]

Does anybody make a successful tactic, possession or pressing, with different formation?

I'm trying real hard to make it work with 3-4-3 and 3-5-2, for example, how to make the "single" wingers (wide midfielders/wingbacks) press the opponents who have "double" wingers (IFs and WBs).

Sorry for my bad english.

I tried something like 3-4-3 (3-6-1) with barca, i only switched to that tactic when i know that the opposition is a lot weaker than mine. The only thing that worked for my wingers to really come back, was specific marking of the opposition player. Your coach will note that your wingers get drawn away from their position, though. I would appreciate it, if the wingers would do more defensively. When i correctly remember Guardiola stated that the wingers are the players who need the best condition, because they need to make a lot of runs, switching between pressing, defending and attacking.

Edit:

I wanted to make something like this:

[deosays]

I'm using this formation atm, trying to make the same things as you guys did, but with different formation.

The tactic familiarity isn't fluid yet. I conceded too many goals from stupid set-pieces.

Can someone tell me how to post screenshots here?

[SafeHands88]

Hi cmonreds. I've been following the thread with some interest from the beginning...but up to this point I haven't felt capable of contributing!

Do you intend doing any analysis on your first season with Nantes? I'm particularly interested in the ways you set up your marking/closing down for particular formations and styles of play.

[cmonreds]

Hi cmonreds. I've been following the thread with some interest from the beginning...but up to this point I haven't felt capable of contributing!

Do you intend doing any analysis on your first season with Nantes? I'm particularly interested in the ways you set up your marking/closing down for particular formations and styles of play.

This will be done. Also with a report of the first matches of the second season. I might be needing som help/advice from you all as well. I am sure that you will be able to contribute to this thread. I am by noe means very good at interpreting the ME and using the TC.

[cmonreds]

I'm using this formation atm, trying to make the same things as you guys did, but with different formation.

The tactic familiarity isn't fluid yet. I conceded too many goals from stupid set-pieces.

Can someone tell me how to post screenshots here?

Screenshots: Read post #15. For defending corners I have put all players except the F9 on marking duties.

[cmonreds]

But what deference does the attacking duty make in Very Fluid, especially considering that you instruct the WBs to dribble less? It doesn't change their mentality and it doesn't make them do more runs in attack, compare to a support duty with the instructions you already have/had.

This is noted. I assumed they would be more offensive in their approach when given an attacking role. So this change is more suited for playing with balanced philosophy?

[cmonreds]

they have more ccs as they exploit the space between my advanced wb and the cd, also both my CD move to the side the other team is attacking...leaving the centre of the box with my fb and 2-3 opposition players.

Later edit: It seems that any chance I give away is converted by the opposition

This needs to be adressed. For me the tactic is awesome when attacking as well as having good possession, but defensively it can be improved. You pointed out weaknesses. I just lost 4-6 to Chelsea at home in the last qualifying round to CL. My defenders are poor compared to their players but still this part of the tactic can be improved. It will be adresses in my next post.

[cmonreds]

Individual instructions override team ones.

There is no point in setting shorter passing as a TI and doing it for a few players as a PI as well? I am thinking sliders here, that doing it individually will make the players play even shorter passes?