Latest patch screwed me

[berggren75]

No matter how I tweak my tactics, I lose my games, despite dominating, having lots of shots, yes the opposition score on almost every shot they have on goal.

What the heck has happened?

Before the patch, my players average ratings during a match was almost consistently above 7, now none of them go above that, but lie steadiy at around 6.2-6.5.

[Sikker]

Oh, reading the thread title I thought it was some kind of christmas bonus...

[berggren75]

Oh, reading the thread title I thought it was some kind of christmas bonus...

Comedian, eh.

[HUNT3R]

Tactics Forum is your best bet. Make a thread there and show a screenshot of your tactic.

[Ackter]

Matches like this are almost always caused by a team that loses its defensive shape when attacking, or leaves gaps on the field when defending.

[Sikker]

Comedian, eh.

Not really But there's a ton of other threads stating practically the same -> people finding the new patch more difficult. All advice are the same -> look for answers/ask questions in the Tactical forum.

[ChelseaFan]

My performances have got better since the patch.

No complaints from me.

Must be your tactic.

[BiggusD]

Player behaviour has changed because of the patch, so some tactical setups will no longer work well. The first thing I would try in such a situation is to remove -all- instructions you have given your team and players. This "resets" your tactic to its basics, and that shouldn't be awful if you have movement between the lines and enough players behind the ball when attacking.

[hashassin]

Matches like this are almost always caused by a team that loses its defensive shape when attacking, or leaves gaps on the field when defending.

Ack, you have this sentence ready to copy and paste, dont you

[Ackter]

It would save me some time, I probably should.

[berggren75]

Player behaviour has changed because of the patch, so some tactical setups will no longer work well. The first thing I would try in such a situation is to remove -all- instructions you have given your team and players. This "resets" your tactic to its basics, and that shouldn't be awful if you have movement between the lines and enough players behind the ball when attacking.

Thats a good point. Will give it a go, and remove all player instructions, then take it from there.

Thanks for the input

[Falahk]

Player behaviour has changed because of the patch, so some tactical setups will no longer work well. The first thing I would try in such a situation is to remove -all- instructions you have given your team and players. This "resets" your tactic to its basics, and that shouldn't be awful if you have movement between the lines and enough players behind the ball when attacking.

if the tactic used in the past was logical and did not exploit an ME glitch, then what you say will never be needed

[BiggusD]

if the tactic used in the past was logical and did not exploit an ME glitch, then what you say will never be needed

That's a false assumption, since the lack of closing down in 14.1.3 and then awful closing down decisions by defenders in 14.1.4 (iirc) are both examples of issues we all had to deal with. Whether or not you were aware of the fact that you dealt with it is not really a concern at this point.

[Falahk]

That's a false assumption, since the lack of closing down in 14.1.3 and then awful closing down decisions by defenders in 14.1.4 (iirc) are both examples of issues we all had to deal with. Whether or not you were aware of the fact that you dealt with it is not really a concern at this point.

I used a tactical set up from fm12 with one slight alteration to suit my team and how I wanted my team to play (I dropped retain possession instruction), and I used this tactic on both those patches

[Ackter]

If the tactic is solid, you shouldn't need more than small adaptations from patch to patch.

[berggren75]

Well, just to clarify here.

After the latest patch, when things went down the drain for me, I tried several tactics from the forums, to see if it was my tactic that did something wrong. None of those worked either. LOTS of shot attempts. Loads were off target, and the ones that were ON target, got saved somehow, despite the opposition GK having a LOUSY rating in every match. So something DID go wrong with the latest patch.

After removing player in structins entirely, I have started scoring a bit, but still condede an enormeous amount of goals, despite having a solid defense. I still have lots of shots, where some are ON target, and the opposition GK STILL saves a lot of them, and still has a low rating in almost every match.

I really don't get the rabid defenders on these forums. Been here for the 13 years I've been around. No matter what is said against this game, they will tear out your throat. I really would not spend my time 'complaining', if I could play the game instead. But something IS off.

[Welshace]

The problem Berggren is that the defenders of the game are used to hearing 'something IS definitely wrong' with the game on a daily basis.. and it gets old when you realise countless people are getting on fine with it. Most of whom realise that once you tweak the match engine, it might require you to look at your tactics again and in some cases, start from scratch.. such is the pitfalls of progress.

Telling us you've downloaded pre made tactics that don't work for you really isn't going to help matters either.

The only thing we can suggest is that you take a look at your instructions and tactics again.. and maybe pop along to the tactics and training section which really will get you a long way to understanding any new nuances with the current match engine.

[berggren75]

The problem Berggren is that the defenders of the game are used to hearing 'something IS definitely wrong' with the game on a daily basis.. and it gets old when you realise countless people are getting on fine with it. Most of whom realise that once you tweak the match engine, it might require you to look at your tactics again and in some cases, start from scratch.. such is the pitfalls of progress.

Telling us you've downloaded pre made tactics that don't work for you really isn't going to help matters either.

The only thing we can suggest is that you take a look at your instructions and tactics again.. and maybe pop along to the tactics and training section which really will get you a long way to understanding any new nuances with the current match engine.

Fair enough. I guess the only way to solve this issue is through hard, frustrating work. Not like I havent tried that before with these games.

Things were so much easier in the early 90's versions

[Matt ex SEGA]

Have you read wwfan's 12 step guide to tactics?

Takes about ten mins to read and a few more to check against what you've done. It's really interesting and honestly, simple enough for me to get should be simple enough for anyone...

And it's not that much hard work.

Good luck!

[Ackter]

If youre shipping loads of goals, how can it be a solid defence? Why do you think you have a solid defence? (serious question)

[kiwityke]

Same for me before the patch I was 23 games undefeated and top of the prem. After the patch god my team looks and plays like they have never seen a football. Patch has ruined the game for me! I am going back to FM13 until this mess is sorted out.

[Matt ex SEGA]

You'll be waiting a while - the patch has simply fixed something you were exploiting in a previous match engine version, at a guess.

Probably more worth the 20 mins it'll take to work it all out - have a read of wwfan's 12 steps of tactical advice and see how you get on.

[Ackter]

Basically, the last patch can be summed up as:

1. Teams defend better

2. Teams counter attack better

Basically, if you were successful before this patch but now can't win, then it means your team were getting away with things a lot more than they should have been. Now, your mistakes are getting punished a lot more frequently.

[kiwityke]

You'll be waiting a while - the patch has simply fixed something you were exploiting in a previous match engine version, at a guess.

Probably more worth the 20 mins it'll take to work it all out - have a read of wwfan's 12 steps of tactical advice and see how you get on.

My previous tactic was based on WWWfans 12 steps so don't give me that rubbish! Is it my tactic that now means goals only come from mistakes and corners! Is it my tactic that means my once solid tactic (designed using the 12 steps) now leaks goals like a ship with a hole in the bottom?

The new ME is terrible. I have played this game for years and know how to create perfectly good tactics via watching the games. I have spent the past 3 days trying to do that with this ME and it's impossible as its terrible. Goals just come from things I don't know how to counter act. I also seemingly can't create anything anymore!

I guess FM13 it is then...

[berggren75]

If youre shipping loads of goals, how can it be a solid defence? Why do you think you have a solid defence? (serious question)

When checking after the match, the defenders have lots of successful tackles. The problem is with the goalkeeper. He never gets a rating above 6.5 it seems. My attack hits the woodwork repeatedly in each match as wewll.

[berggren75]

Have you read wwfan's 12 step guide to tactics?

Takes about ten mins to read and a few more to check against what you've done. It's really interesting and honestly, simple enough for me to get should be simple enough for anyone...

And it's not that much hard work.

Good luck!

I will give it a look, although I have played SI's manager game since 1992 (93?), when the first version was shipped. So I like to think I know my way around the tactics. But then again, one never stops learning I guess

[themadsheep2001]

My previous tactic was based on WWWfans 12 steps so don't give me that rubbish! Is it my tactic that now means goals only come from mistakes and corners! Is it my tactic that means my once solid tactic (designed using the 12 steps) now leaks goals like a ship with a hole in the bottom?

The new ME is terrible. I have played this game for years and know how to create perfectly good tactics via watching the games. I have spent the past 3 days trying to do that with this ME and it's impossible as its terrible. Goals just come from things I don't know how to counter act. I also seemingly can't create anything anymore!

I guess FM13 it is then...

With all due respect, you cant know how to create perfectly good tactics if you can't do it now and other people are.

It's your choice to go back to FM13, but only fair to point out the above.

[themadsheep2001]

I will give it a look, although I have played SI's manager game since 1992 (93?), when the first version was shipped. So I like to think I know my way around the tactics. But then again, one never stops learning I guess

I've never stopped learning, can always find something new each year. Even the likes of wwfan and Cleon keep finding something new.

[HUNT3R]

My previous tactic was based on WWWfans 12 steps so don't give me that rubbish! Is it my tactic that now means goals only come from mistakes and corners! Is it my tactic that means my once solid tactic (designed using the 12 steps) now leaks goals like a ship with a hole in the bottom?

The new ME is terrible. I have played this game for years and know how to create perfectly good tactics via watching the games. I have spent the past 3 days trying to do that with this ME and it's impossible as its terrible. Goals just come from things I don't know how to counter act. I also seemingly can't create anything anymore!

I guess FM13 it is then...

So you losing = bad ME?

[kiwityke]

So you losing = bad ME?

Nope. The fact that most goals I see just make no sense. This goes for both teams. I can no longer see why were conceding or why were not scoring. For me the ME has become too random. Far too many insane mistakes from world class players (again both sides) I am still winning I just have no idea why, same goes for losing. I no longer enjoy the ME. I don't feel any changes I make have an impact. The previous ME I could watch a bit of the match see the problem and solve it, this one I dunno why my defenders can't tackle and my goalkeeper acts like he has no hands. My strikers don't make runs and my playmaker now no longer sees the ball. Even though I want to play a patient possession based game I have 40% of possession, previous ME this was not the case.

The ME is just terrible IMO> Worst one I have ever seen. It's my honest opinion, I no longer enjoy the game, which is a shame because the prior update I thought was great, also the improvements this year have also been great. This ME has ruined it for me.

[Matt ex SEGA]

I will give it a look, although I have played SI's manager game since 1992 (93?), when the first version was shipped. So I like to think I know my way around the tactics. But then again, one never stops learning I guess

Well - that's why it's worth having a read. Lots of stuff that you tend to take for granted as an experienced player has actually been tweaked or changed over the last couple of years. Making sure you understand the framework just gives you a better chance of doing what you've always done, and succeeding. As you say - never stop learning...

As you say - one never stops learning.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Nope. The fact that most goals I see just make no sense. This goes for both teams. I can no longer see why were conceding or why were not scoring. For me the ME has become too random. Far too many insane mistakes from world class players (again both sides) I am still winning I just have no idea why, same goes for losing. I no longer enjoy the ME. I don't feel any changes I make have an impact. The previous ME I could watch a bit of the match see the problem and solve it, this one I dunno why my defenders can't tackle and my goalkeeper acts like he has no hands. My strikers don't make runs and my playmaker now no longer sees the ball. Even though I want to play a patient possession based game I have 40% of possession, previous ME this was not the case.

The ME is just terrible IMO> Worst one I have ever seen. It's my honest opinion, I no longer enjoy the game, which is a shame because the prior update I thought was great, also the improvements this year have also been great. This ME has ruined it for me.

Yep, it's the match engine - you're obviously a tactical guru.

I, on the other hand, with my back to back promotions, don't have a clue. Sorry I tried to help, all I really wanted was for you to give me some grief. I apologise wholeheartedly.

Enjoy FM13.

[Ackter]

When checking after the match, the defenders have lots of successful tackles. The problem is with the goalkeeper. He never gets a rating above 6.5 it seems. My attack hits the woodwork repeatedly in each match as wewll.

Have a look at their heat maps and the other analysis tools after the match. You could also look at your midfield - if your defence are making a lot of tackles it means your midfield are losing the battle and allowing the AI through. A good defence starts with the strikers imo.

[Ackter]

Nope. The fact that most goals I see just make no sense. This goes for both teams. I can no longer see why were conceding or why were not scoring. For me the ME has become too random. Far too many insane mistakes from world class players (again both sides) I am still winning I just have no idea why, same goes for losing. I no longer enjoy the ME. I don't feel any changes I make have an impact. The previous ME I could watch a bit of the match see the problem and solve it, this one I dunno why my defenders can't tackle and my goalkeeper acts like he has no hands. My strikers don't make runs and my playmaker now no longer sees the ball. Even though I want to play a patient possession based game I have 40% of possession, previous ME this was not the case.

The ME is just terrible IMO> Worst one I have ever seen. It's my honest opinion, I no longer enjoy the game, which is a shame because the prior update I thought was great, also the improvements this year have also been great. This ME has ruined it for me.

This is exactly what some people say after every single game release and patch release. The few who have been brave enough to actually post in the tactics for for advice have been helped. Unfortunately, most are happy to just rant and rave instead of working out how to get their enjoyment back.

[wwfan]

My previous tactic was based on WWWfans 12 steps so don't give me that rubbish! Is it my tactic that now means goals only come from mistakes and corners! Is it my tactic that means my once solid tactic (designed using the 12 steps) now leaks goals like a ship with a hole in the bottom?

The new ME is terrible. I have played this game for years and know how to create perfectly good tactics via watching the games. I have spent the past 3 days trying to do that with this ME and it's impossible as its terrible. Goals just come from things I don't know how to counter act. I also seemingly can't create anything anymore!

I guess FM13 it is then...

Probably worth mentioning that this patch hasn't made a jot of difference to my team's performance. But then, no patch has since FM07. If you get the basics right, you'll always do OK.

There's a reason that some of us consistently do well, whatever patch is live, whereas others struggle. From the debate on the forums, it seems to me that if you try to play against the ME, even a little, the next update will undermine your tactical approach. If you play according to internal logic of the tactical module (which, in my opinion, matches real footballing logic quite well), then you'll cruise through ME updates. Obviously, I have a major advantage here, having played in the same way for seven years and knowing the internal logic intimately, but I'm by no means the only person experiencing this. Most of the mods and regular contributors to the tactics forum have the same experience and simply never even think of adapting to the ME, developing a tactical vision which transcends ME changes.

That doesn't mean we don't accept the ME flaws. There are obvious issues with corners, long TBs, lateral and vertical movement, player awareness, crossing decisions, etc. However, none of these issues undermine the playing experience if you remain true to a tactical vision and appreciate the internal logic of the tactical module. The moment you try to adapt to and take advantage of any of these issues is the moment the next update will spoil your enjoyment. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[kiwityke]

Probably worth mentioning that this patch hasn't made a jot of difference to my team's performance. But then, no patch has since FM07. If you get the basics right, you'll always do OK.

There's a reason that some of us consistently do well, whatever patch is live, whereas others struggle. From the debate on the forums, it seems to me that if you try to play against the ME, even a little, the next update will undermine your tactical approach. If you play according to internal logic of the tactical module (which, in my opinion, matches real footballing logic quite well), then you'll cruise through ME updates. Obviously, I have a major advantage here, having played in the same way for seven years and knowing the internal logic intimately, but I'm by no means the only person experiencing this. Most of the mods and regular contributors to the tactics forum have the same experience and simply never even think of adapting to the ME, developing a tactical vision which transcends ME changes.

That doesn't mean we don't accept the ME flaws. There are obvious issues with corners, long TBs, lateral and vertical movement, player awareness, crossing decisions, etc. However, none of these issues undermine the playing experience if you remain true to a tactical vision and appreciate the internal logic of the tactical module. The moment you try to adapt to and take advantage of any of these issues is the moment the next update will spoil your enjoyment. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The thing is I haven't changed anything to exploit the previous ME, my tactic was built using your 12 steps. It is built with my usual philosophy in mind and it was producing some great games of football. This ME I just can't get it going. I just do not enjoy the matches that are produced at all. Seeing 6 goals from corners out of 10 games just doesn't excite me!

This ME for me is way more flawed than previous ME's that's my opinion. I was still winning games just not enjoying or understanding why anymore.