mcmuffin19 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Worst title ever. Apologies. I was wondering how people hve got on with three tactic rotating depending on the opposition. So I have been reading a lot of the stickies and some of the great great threads by Cleon etc Etc and there was some talk which really enthused me about OI and changing your tactics slightly to expose oppo weaknesses or defending their strengths and making alterations to give you the edge. So my thoughts are to have three tactics with the same principles of play and main set up of philosophy, strategy, mentality etc however there would be a different emphasis on what channels to focus on. So the three tactics would be right flank focus, left flank focus and central focus. All likely to be in a 4-2-3-1 / 4-3-2-1 So you would make an educated decision on where your oppositions main area of weakness or strength is and look to expose or defend that area. Eg. If I was playing as Fulham and was playing against Everton I would make the judgement that Everton are strongest down their left side (with BAINES and MIRALLES and that's where they're most dangerous which leaves me to decide what area am I most likely to get success. I decide down their right side (my left) so I will use my focus on the left flank tactic. This tactic of my three looks to be incredible defensive down the right. So my thoughts are to have on the right a defensive winger or wide midfielder on support who man marks the wide midfielder of the opposition. His main duty is to nullify the threat down his side and any play with the ball would be to get rid of it as soon as possible. My right full back will need to hold his position much more so will not be closing down or marking and will come across to pick anything up that the defensive wide man cannot sort. He too needs to hold his shape more as I want the opposite full back to be very involved in attacking play. On the left side is where I believe I am going to be get the most success so I need to make the most of it. So my left back will likely be an attacking wing back who will get forward at most opportunities. The wide left midfielder is likely to be a winger on support who stays forward and is an outlet at every opportunity. So he stays forward on all set pieces he's encouraged to run at his full back and is the most dangerous player on the pitch. Others My left side centre back will be to be incredibly defensive and will have to pick up what our left wing back cannot which should keep him busy as the wingback will be much more interested in attacking and leave gaps. My midfield three are likely to be a DM DM AMC or MC MC AMC. One of the deeper players likely to be on the left will be a deep lying playmaker on defend who gets the ball frequently and supplies our left winger/wingback with the ball or finds the striker who then supplies the left winger/wingback. I can see this being a rigid formation but I am unsure whether to go for a defensive/counter strategy or possibly attacking. It will need a lot of experimenting. These are my initial thoughts on the idea. -really not sure how to approach the central focus tactic and am hoping others have had success with tactics involving taking advantage of weaknesses through the middle. -not sure what sort of ST and AMC relationship to have to get the most out of focusing down the flanks -I would really like some input and successes people have had when exposing just one flank and the relationship between full back and wide midfielder which will be vital to making this work. Anyway this may have all been done before or I'm talking nonsense so I am really looking for any advice or thoughts on the idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 So i have given it more thought and to really exploit one of the flanks I think a F9 would be most suitable at the top of the formation to bring our winger into play as well. I have heard people having success with keeping this striker, forward for all set pieces as it gives our wide man even more space and to stay wider. Our dangerous wide man would have- Run Wide with Ball. Stay Wider and Get Further Forward. For our man marking winger on their strong side I am considering a Defensive Winger on support. On their stronger side our right fullback will be on defend and we want him getting to ball either cleared or out to the DLP if that doesnt prove to be too dangerous. I am thinking the former so will be on more direct passes. Contemplating a half back in the centre of midfield on the right handside (so the oppos dangerous side) to fill drop in and fill any gaps left and get him to pass short at every opportunity to our deep lying play maker on the left hand side on the centre pairing. So asking him to Shoot Less Often and Pass it Short I am thinking i was my defensive winger to get their dangerman on their side to come inside to nullify the threat and get the half back (great tackler) to then help out and nullify any threat. I am thinking that would be more liekly to defuse their attack than sending him outside and down the wing? Plenty of question marks everywhere but that is what makes the game so great. No where near at the stage of thinking about attributes the side but i already have a little. For our attacking wide man I think off the ball will be key to ensure he gets his space to get on the ball and take adavantage from there of any weak points they have at full back etc. I will be looking for all of the traditional attributes neccesary for a fast tricky winger always looking to get advantage of his full back. So dribbling, pace, crossing etc. Most of my transfer budget will be aimed at a strong winger who can play on both sides. The dream would be Cristiano but i am looking to test this with both Fulham and York City so we can rule that one out. The defensive winger will have most of the attributes of a full back and where people have had success with wingers playing ta full back i will be looking to do the opposite and not be afraid to have a full back wide of midfield. Somebody with good passing will be essential because as soon as he gets it i want it given to someone else. Things normally associated with a wide man such as acceleration, dribbling etc will not be neccessary here. Marking and positioning will be two other key attribtues i will be looking for. Both the AMC (role yet to be thought about and he may actually be sent over the the left to help out but i dont want them getting in the way of each other as well as adding the wingback in the mix) and the F9 are going to be receiving a lot of crosses from the two flank focussed tactics so I will look to involve tall forwards in these positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonnySanchez Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 You do not need to train three tactics if the only difference is the playing focus and player roles. If mentality philosophy etc. is the same then you just make these changes before each game, better use of the other two slots is to train other tactics, a "plan B" tactic and maybe one desperate tactic for the last 5-10 minutes of the game, that my advice as for the plan for your Everton game it’s hard to say what’s good and what is not good it all depends on their strengths but also on your weaknesses and vice versa. If Mirallas is good is and maybe fast, good off the ball etc. is it good to try to man mark him? Probably not. My opinion is that is better to disturb their flow and passing and to divert it from the danger man, you can do that with man marking on the players that provide the passes for Mirallas or with higher closing down on those that pass to him or combination of the two. You can divert play to one of the flanks by ordering your striker to man mark the opposite central defender, if they play slow build up play and you don’t like that, you could give OI instructions to the whole defensive line of the opposition so that your player in the Striker position and on the wings press their defensive line so that they play more long balls, etc. etc. but it all depends on the situation and the relative strengths and weaknesses between the teams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well thats a good point... do i need to change tactics? Well even though i havent broached the subject yet as i am going to nail (optimistic) the left/right flank exploitation first, i am expecting bigger changes for the central focus. Potentially a formation with no wingers but as aforementioned, i havent thought that far ahead yet. So possibly two tactics will be enough rather than three>? I havent thought about that but will have to. At least a plan B would be helpful. Well i did think that man marking isnt going to work on all occasions and that is why i was hoping on doubling/trebling up on their stronger side. So if the man marking by the defensive winger fails then the right back who holds his shape far better will deal with it. Also using the right side DM (likely to be a half back? not sure) Can come over and sort any trouble if they start to get some luck coming inside. The basic premise of the tactic will be to totally nullify one side and rule out any attacking play in that area and focus all (mostly along with central) my attacking play down the opposite side and expect to leave myself weaker there when defending but deal with that the best I can. Now some of the info you have provided is great and i am going to use it. So using the opposition scouting report, if i can identify who is providing ball to Mirralas then he too will be marked or closed down (opportunity to experiment) by my other DM (the half back, but this role sounds more appropriate for another type of DM so may well be changed) or if the playmaker is further up the field use the AMC or ST as you mentioned. I am very much liking the idea that you spoke about for diverting play. Surely i should be sticking some marking courtesy of my striker on their LCB so they play down the right (my left) but i may actually want them to play down their stronger side as I feel with my right sided midfielder being so defensive and almost being a second full back that i am more likely to turnover the ball in that area and therefore sending the oppo into trouble almost, by coming down my well guarded side. Either way i can make that ST marking work to my advantage. Really appreciate the input and just what i need to try and get all the players working towards the same idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I like your original approach/idea here, don't get discouraged, test on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks. I am awaiting a new PC at present so have to wait till early next week so i am just putting plenty of ideas together to try and make this work really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 So let’s put the plan into context a little. So there will be 3 tactics (or 2 but 3 set ups) 1. Left Flank Focus (Right side defend) 2. Right Flank Focus (Left side defend) 3. Central Focus (Defending the channels) The left and right will be the symmetrical so we talk about them in the same breathe. The central focus will almost be totally different. Idea thus far (open for discussion) and certainly not by any means finished Team Instructions- Rigid. Defensive? Counter? Control ? Not sure but may kick off with counter? Any better suggestions would be helpful Exploit the Left Flank (opposite for Right Flank Focus) other main instruction need to be thought about, GK- Full Back Right (D) - Sit Narrower, More Direct Passes, Close Down Less (Tackling, Concentration, Anticipation, Decisions, Strength) Centre back Right (d) – probably a straight forward position? Centre Back Left – Ball Playing Defender? Possibly not sure. Wing Back left (A) – (Off the ball, Anticipation, Stamina, Positioning) Defensive Winger Right (S) – Will Man Mark their left mid. (Marking, tackling, concentration. Less vital- anticipation, decision and positioning, strength and pace) DMR- Not sure what to do with this position yet? Deep Lying Playmaker left (D) (Off the ball, Anticipation, Decisions, Creativity, Positioning, Stamina) Winger Left (S)– Will stay forward for all set pieces. Stay forward. Run Wide with Ball. Stay Wider and Get Further Forward (Dribbling, Flair, Quickness, Balance, Agility) AMC (A)- Not sure exactly here in terms of role (Anticipation, Off the ball, decisions, finishing, heading, positioning, creativity ) F9 (S)- Will man mark their right centre back. Set to stay forward on set pieces too. (Strength, heading, first touch, Teamwork) Central Focus Tactic I have given this far less thought thus far but these are my initial thoughts. Team Instructions- Rigid, Control Narrow width, and short passing system. High possession. Exploit the middle. Work Ball into Box GK- Full Back Right (d) Cut inside Centre back Right (d) – probably a straight forward position? Centre Back Left – Ball Playing Defender? Possibly not sure.? Full Back Left (d) Cut inside Inside Forward ®- (Anticipation, Off the ball, Decisions, Acceleration) DMR- Not sure what to do with this position yet? Something creative? Deep Lying Playmaker left (D) (Off the ball, Anticipation, Decisions, Creativity, Positioning, Stamina) Inside Forward left – (Anticipation, Off the ball, Decisions, Acceleration) AMC – somebody to provide a final ball. (Passing, First touch, Off the ball, Anticipation, Decisions, Positioning, Acceleration finishing, creativity) ST- Someone working on the last man I think is most beneficial here Central Focus Plenty more to think about and team instruction are going to be the most vital for me I think and I haven’t given them enough thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I continue to put together thoughts and ideas for this Assymetric Tactic (well apart from the central focus one which will be symetrical) and here are some more thoughts... I want a ball playing centre back but I am not sure who and even why really? Well I do, I don’t want to ball aimlessly hoofed i want a pass to my DLP who gets it out to the wideman or front man or AMC?. I am thinking of getting my right sided centre back as a BPD as really he shouldnt have as much to do as the right back and the right midfielder should be taking care of the threats down that side and his centre back partner on the left is going to be far busier in taking care of business down the left when the wing back gets caught out which he inevitably will often. But the DLP will be on the left of the DM positions so will he be too far away to be found? So I am also going to consider about not having one at all if this right sided centre back is going to be kept busy. Also I still havent made a decision on strategy yet and for the flank tactics i feel it should be a sort of counter style tactic. So Counter or defensive may where i start. I also struggle with strategy and experimenting may be the only way. Any advice? Then again as I type and think I want to make the most of my winger and possibly attacking is the way to go? Team instructions for defending- I am thinking I will stand off opponents, not closing down the opposition. Stay on feet too as my shape has been well thought out, i dont want my players doing anything silly. A high tempo too as i want the transition from defence to attack to be quick so I can get the players i want on the ball on the ball quickly. Direct passing as well seems to go well here. I have also finally put some thoughts together on the very different CFT (Centrally Focussed Tactic) This will be be the same formation - 4-2-3-1 but will be totally different everywhere else in styple of play with narrow width, and short passing system. High defensive line (probably and may change this depending on oppo and their strikers) and high possession. Exploiting the middle. Working the Ball into Box. Play out of defence. Low tempo. Pass into space (maybe/sometimes) As i want to play through the middle here i need to concentrate on central playmakers, getting my midfielders to run from deep and my striker certainly can not be an F9 like the flank tactics but something like a complete forward who stays forward and can play off the last man when neccessary. I am thinking of having wide men instead of changing the tactics formation by bring them inside but i will use them an inside forwards. (Anticipation, Off the ball, Decisions, Acceleration the attributes needed here) that will be a significant change as well as the striker in this system. Will keep a deep lying play maker and may make the other central midfielder an attacking central midfielder (unsure yet and may keep the same for defensive work) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 So new pc should be with me early this week and heres how my two/three tactics will shape up Left/Right focus- Team Instructions- Rigid. Counter Exploit the Left Flank (opposite for Right Flank Focus) GK- Full Back Right (D) - Sit Narrower, More Direct Passes, Close Down Less Centre back Right (d) – a straight forward position Centre Back Left – Ball Playing Defender Wing Back left (A) – Defensive Winger Right (S) – Will Man Mark their left mid. Defensive midfielder right (s) Deep Lying Playmaker left (D) Winger Left (S)– Will stay forward for all set pieces. Stay forward. Run Wide with Ball. Stay Wider and Get Further Forward AMC (A) F9 (S)- Will man mark their right centre back. Set to stay forward on set pieces too. Central Focus Tactic. Team Instructions- Rigid, Control Narrow width, and short passing system. High possession. Exploit the middle. Work Ball into Box GK- Full Back Right (d) Cut inside Centre back Right (d) – probably a straight forward position? Centre Back Left – ball playing defender Full Back Left (d) Cut inside Inside Forward ®- (a) DMR- Anchorman Deep Lying Playmaker left (D) Inside Forward left – (a) AMC (s)– CompletevForward (a) Anything majorly out of place here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Well no-one can advise because you've not played a game using them yet. You're best off actually playing a game and then coming back with the issues you face. Although I can tell you now the first tactic in the post above wont work because when the F9 drops deep you don't have anyone going beyond him, so not sure where you think the goals will actually come from? The AMC alone isn't enough. Very static play and you'll struggle and be inconsistent because the roles/duties aren't really thought out and you've not put any thought into how it all plays as a unit. So you have no-one getting between the lines etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmuffin19 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 Ok thats great thanks. So using someone more direct who gets beyond the f9 is vital. A trequartista perhaps. Will give that some thought. No absolutely need to actually get it running and tested before anything else. Wish this machine would hurry up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyc31 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I don't think a treq will get forward as there main job is to trip deep to find space? I use a Advance Playmaker Attack with Roaming to good effect. He got 22 goals and 21 assists last year. Have fun testing. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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