Dench57 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I play 4-2-3-1 (2 Central Mids, not Defensive Mids). I identified the need for a defensive-minded central midfielder, preferably a BWM/CM with preferred "Defend" duty. I found the following newgen and decided I had to buy him at the price considering his potential (I'm mid-table Prem at the moment). Longoria my scout (Scouting CA/PA is 20/20 so he's about as accurate as it gets) identified him as a DLP with preferred "Defend" duty, but his 'Tackling' stat is only 6 which is obviously really low for any Defensive minded player isn't it? I've seen this with other plays too, BWMd's and CMd's with really low tackling stat, I thought that would be one of the most important (along with stuff like Strength, Positioning, Workrate, Stamina, Determination). I'm hoping this guy will shore things up in my midfield, staying behind and allowing the other midfielders to get forward. Reckon he can do it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dench57 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Although just noticed that he's 23 in just over a month, it's very unlikely he'll reach his potential. Player progression slows down at 24 and then stops completely at 25 right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjericho Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 First of all, player progression never stops. You can have a 32 year-old who still develop some attributes (mostly mental). But if you want to shape a player, it's until he is around 23/24 that you can really see a development in his attributes. With that in mind, this player is very good but not for a defensive role. For a defensive duty he has to be able to hold his place and help the defense. He has low positioning, tackling, aggression, bravery, stamina and strength, some of the key attributes for this role. The best way to see if a player fits the role you want is to highlight the attributes for a specific role. To do that, go to the "More Actions" tab on the upper right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan99 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I certainly would not be playing him as a central midfielder in any duty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soninho Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 His stats is probably better for an attacking role but I have a player with similar stats, (little bit better defensive), and I play him as a defensive playmaker (support/defence, depending on opposition), and it works out quite well actually. He does his duties on defence and have around 7.5-7.8 every match, on the high end of my team..! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertPage Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Although just noticed that he's 23 in just over a month, it's very unlikely he'll reach his potential. Player progression slows down at 24 and then stops completely at 25 right? I don't think that's true at all. I think it's more towards the late 20's where development will start to stop and would expect around 24/25/26 to be the age it starts to slow. There are plenty of players who don't really start to improve till they're 22/23/24 and then hit their peak around 26/27/28 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 He is very much a playmaker rather than a midfielder who breaks up play. Given his low levels of strength, jumping, tackling, WR I would much prefer him playing further forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dench57 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Thanks for the responses. I don't think I'll go through with buying this player, unfortunately I have too many Attacking Mids to choose from already, I swear on my Cambridge save there are loads of world class Attacking mids available but no good Central mids. I don't think that's true at all. I think it's more towards the late 20's where development will start to stop and would expect around 24/25/26 to be the age it starts to slow. There are plenty of players who don't really start to improve till they're 22/23/24 and then hit their peak around 26/27/28 That's certainly true in real life, but on FM I've just noticed going from Coach Reports the day a player hits his 25th birthday he will go from "Player X can improve significantly in the future" to "doesn't think Player X is likely to improve in future" and their Attribute Increases in the stat screen slow considerably compared to when they are 18-22. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 He doesn't really have any favorable defensive attributes. In addition to tackling, he has 10 or less in marking, positioning, aggression, bravery, concentration, work rate, stamina and strength. He's certainly not a CM/D or ball winner. Maybe a DLP, but his a little weak defensively even for that. To me, that guy is an advanced playmaker for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryknow Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Tbh in this version of FM a player with tackling of 6 can still win 80% of his challenges. I wouldn't use him in that role though, as SpartyOn says he lacks in the other key areas to be a defensively minded CM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domus Clamantium Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't believe you should invest in this player. There will be many players better than him with similar potential. He is lacking so much in many areas! Keep searching. Personally I don't bother if they have don't have all 4 teamwork attributes above 13. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Id buy him, but not as a deep lying playmaker, but more as a winger, he has some good winger attributes, and you could take his dribbling and crossing up quite quickly id imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 He'd make a good winger or AMC but not an MC. I'd also not be keen on using a BWM in a 4231 formation, as they can often get dragged out of position by chasing after players, leaving your midfield very exposed. CM/d or DLP/d is a must in this formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Tackling is an important attribute for all midfielders imo, with the exception of the super-advanced ones (but even they would benefit from it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradz FM Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 You wouldn't need a good tackling attribute if he was able to read the game well and make interceptions, however is concentration, anticipation and positioning are too slow to have an impact at doing that either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dench57 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Thanks for all the responses. I'll be keeping an eye out over the next season for players with high tackling, work rate, strength and stamina in particular. I'd also not be keen on using a BWM in a 4231 formation, as they can often get dragged out of position by chasing after players, leaving your midfield very exposed. CM/d or DLP/d is a must in this formation. I agree about the BWM for the reason you mentioned, never seem to perform in this formation. CM/d would be my preference but as I said they're so hard to find in my game so I've settled with a DLP/d for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dench57 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Tackling is an important attribute for all midfielders imo, with the exception of the super-advanced ones (but even they would benefit from it). Only really noticed in this over the last few seasons as I've tried to shoehorn natural Attacking Mids into playing as central BBMs or DLPs purely because they had far better CA/PA than any true defensive CMs. Playing with CWB/a's as well so my midfield would get opened up on the counter and my poor CBs were left isolated. The upside of this was plenty of high scoring games, though perhaps not always the desired result! I think it might be in wwfan's thread where it is mentioned always have one central midfielder on 'Defend' duty, I've definitely seen good reason for this recently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That's certainly true in real life, but on FM I've just noticed going from Coach Reports the day a player hits his 25th birthday he will go from "Player X can improve significantly in the future" to "doesn't think Player X is likely to improve in future" and their Attribute Increases in the stat screen slow considerably compared to when they are 18-22. It's true in FM as well. When they hit 25 they are no longer classed as a young player and so the report changes. They can and do continue to develop into their late 20s in some cases, depending on the player and his development trajectory. The gains will not be as massive, of course, but yeah, you get late bloomers. I just had a keeper with great physical and mental stats with horrid technicals. He was 25 when I signed him, by age 28 he had improved pretty significantly on the technical side. Not as well as had he been properly developed early on, but it does happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erith22 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 To answer the subject line, I'd say no. Most of the time the guys on the AI teams who rack up tackles are the ones with really strong mental attributes, with middling tackling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 In FM14, the scouts give you the worst roles first then scale it down. You'll usually be better off deciding his best role (stats wise) yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauladams84 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I wouldn't play him in your formation whatsoever. As he is not defensive enough and you would leak goals via counter. .. If you played 41221 then he would be perfect as a dlp. Either that or retrain as a amc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 He is 22, soon 23, still only "good PL player" and with a Fairly Determined personality. Those kind of "hot prospects" are exactly the ones you should stay away from. The reason he is not already a world class player is either because he hasn't played enough competitive matches yet, or because his hidden attributes Professionalism and/or Ambition are too low. Or both. He's a misfire. A dud. Stay away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Besides, he is a good example of the kind of newgen I personally avoid like the plague. This has to do with his non-weighted or lowly weighted attributes. To make it short (pun unintended), his Aggression and Bravery attributes are low and he is selfish (low Team Work and Work Rate). As the years go by, there will be plenty of quite similar newgens in any given position, since they develop along the same templates. This means that you can get a newgen with excellent numbers in each key attribute for his role/position quite easily. However, since unweighted attributes are randomly assigned, the chance of a high-potential youngster (relatively rare) with a good attitude (relatively rare) emerging with ONLY good unweighted attributes (relatively rare) is extremely low. Thus, they are of course more in demand than their generic, randomly flawed brethren. If an AI club actually turns out to be good at buying good players over time and push you for the title, the skill of seeing the unweighted attributes is an advantage only us humans have. (...at least it was in FM13). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I've not had many hours of sleep in the past few days and as such I am quite delirious, when I saw this thread I read it as Is "Tickle" an important attribute for Midfielders on "Defend" duty? And I really think it is. I really do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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