Advice: How Best To Achieve High Possession

[PODSY12345]

I think we can all take shortcuts to winning based on our knowledge of the engine. It's not difficult to use the corner trick or get an average player with a long throw.

But I want to create a team that regularly dominates possession. 60-65% based on passing ability, short passing, patience and tactics and players that are employed to suit.

I know this will be much harder than just winning by going direct, but I want to do it, and hopefully results will follow

So, a list of things to do, please feel free to add or correct me. Would really appreciate the chance to learn off you all:-

Players

Sign short passing midfielders, and no long passers - Iniesta yes, Gerrard no

Goalkeepers with good distribution

Dribblers yes or no?

No to big brutes in the forwards, yes to passers and creators

Team Instructions

Retain Possession

Lower Tempo (or Much Lower Tempo)

Shorter Passing

Hassle Opponents

Play Out Of Defence

Work Ball Into Box

Pass Into Space?

Run At Defence?

Drill Crosses?

Push Higher Up

Player Instructions

Close Down More

Pass It Shorter

Fewer Risky Passes

Shoot Less Often

[19MiRkO91]

Pass into space I guess not, because they will try more risky ball to take advantage of space.

Doesn't run at defence ask your players to dribble as well? if it does that too, then no, unless you specifically ask every player to dribble less.

I am not sure about Drill crosses, honestly.

[luigiluigi]

I was able to get good possession stats with Celtic and Milan of about 60%ish regularly by using

Short Passing

Retain Possession

Lower Tempo

Sit Deeper

Play Out of Defence

Work Ball into Box

but it was usually leading to 1 nil wins or even defeats.

Interested to see how this thread pans out, as it left me feeling what is the point in having all that possession when ultimately it wasnt winning me games comfortably. In order for me to score a decent amount of goals, and I usually even struggle to do that, I was forced to go direct.

Why do some people want to create a tactic that retains that high a possession %? Just to say they have done it, or are the benefits that i wasnt getting?

[tieio]

I was able to get good possession stats with Celtic and Milan of about 60%ish regularly by using

Short Passing

Retain Possession

Lower Tempo

Sit Deeper

Play Out of Defence

Work Ball into Box

but it was usually leading to 1 nil wins or even defeats.

Interested to see how this thread pans out, as it left me feeling what is the point in having all that possession when ultimately it wasnt winning me games comfortably. In order for me to score a decent amount of goals, and I usually even struggle to do that, I was forced to go direct.

Why do some people want to create a tactic that retains that high a possession %? Just to say they have done it, or are the benefits that i wasnt getting?

The old theory of winning games because your opponent doesn't have the ball. This is a balancing act that is very hard to achieve in this game. I know how you feel with the 1-0 wins but I am one of those people who loves to win 1-0, as long as I keep that 0.

[PODSY12345]

Pass into space I guess not, because they will try more risky ball to take advantage of space.

Doesn't run at defence ask your players to dribble as well? if it does that too, then no, unless you specifically ask every player to dribble less.

I am not sure about Drill crosses, honestly.

Yes, they're the two team instructions I'm really not sure about either. Hopefully someone will clear them up.

[PODSY12345]

I was able to get good possession stats with Celtic and Milan of about 60%ish regularly by using

Short Passing

Retain Possession

Lower Tempo

Sit Deeper

Play Out of Defence

Work Ball into Box

but it was usually leading to 1 nil wins or even defeats.

Interested to see how this thread pans out, as it left me feeling what is the point in having all that possession when ultimately it wasnt winning me games comfortably. In order for me to score a decent amount of goals, and I usually even struggle to do that, I was forced to go direct.

Why do some people want to create a tactic that retains that high a possession %? Just to say they have done it, or are the benefits that i wasnt getting?

I know that feeling. It's very frustrating.

I want to create a successful possession tactic because that's how I like to see football played. I really want to know if it's possible.

[PODSY12345]

The old theory of winning games because your opponent doesn't have the ball. This is a balancing act that is very hard to achieve in this game. I know how you feel with the 1-0 wins but I am one of those people who loves to win 1-0, as long as I keep that 0.

Good for you.

[tieio]

I know that feeling. It's very frustrating.

I want to create a successful possession tactic because that's how I like to see football played. I really want to know if it's possible.

It is possible, I do it in every save thus far. If you are looking to win every game 3-0 with this style you will be disappointed though, I enjoy my 1-0 or the odd 2-0 win and sometimes do not get upset at the 0-0 draws. I have 2 goals each season and that is to concede the fewest and win games with possession and not allowing the other team many chances to score. They still score and I still lose the odd game but not very often. I have been thinking about adding my tactics to the forums for a while so I may just do that soon.

[PODSY12345]

That would be great, tieio. Would you normally use something like my team and player instructions as a starting point?

[tieio]

I use a completely different setup than anything I have seen on the forums yet, but it is not a strange one not is it some ME exploiter so I am actually kind of excited to share it except the inevitable people who will rip it apart because it doesn't work for them... I dunno, I am on the fence right now.

Have you considered testing with the Fulcrum Silk & Steel tactic? It provides a lot of possession and allows you to win a lot of games. It's the tactic I started with and then evolved a lot from there, my current tactics and formation look nothing like it now but it started me off on this seasons version. Just a suggestion.

[Svenc]

I know that feeling. It's very frustrating.

Arguably the issue is that people want to hold possession no matter what. Firstly, is your side even a technically gifted one? I tried this with Fulham on FM 2014, and naturally it didn't work. Secondly, what about match context? Naturally, you will concede goals. I've recently seen someone emloying all the extreme "hold possession" instructions throughout the 90 minutes, and in stark contrast to the (inferior on paper) away opposition barely a ball was played anymore into the box. Goals have to come from somewhere, and by increasing passing directness you increase the likelyhood of a more speculative ball being played (and vice versa if you're going all extreme possession). I always compare it to Bayern under Van Gaal during the worst spell of his second season. Bayern amassed passing statistics a plenty, but there were barely any attempts at risky balls that could break down defenses. It became utterly predictable. At that stage shortly before his sacking some more cynical argued Schweinsteige's passing stats would only look that impressive as he was firstly sitting deep and secondly always playing sideways.

I think I've posted the corresponding screenshot somewhere already, but here they are. You will spot who was who just by looking at them.

All the nice and swift passes in the world won't do you any good when you need to break an opposition down ASAP and neither have the players for it or insist on keeping the ball.

[PODSY12345]

Thanks for the tip but I want to develop my own really. If I see a good tactic I'll get lazy and download!!

[tieio]

Thanks for the tip but I want to develop my own really. If I see a good tactic I'll get lazy and download!!

Oh I understand, completely but I find sometimes using a downloaded tactic will give me ideas and allow me to tweak it a bunch until it is what i want it to be. I posted my tactic in the tactics sharing center, just in case you decide to look for something to use in the meantime.

[PODSY12345]

Thanks tieio

[BurghBear]

With regards to the shouts, I'm sure I read somewhere that the retain possession and shorter passing can be counter productive as explained above. One or the other combined with Control mentality might work better? Not sure about the science behind it but my team certainly played better with one instead of both. Also think I read that pass into space is good for possession as it would be hard if everyone was expected to pass to feet but it may be that someone said pass to feet was bad. Either way I'm using Control, retain possession, pass into space and it's working well.

[2calvin]

Done this with Dortmund. I found their players will look for the shorter pass first anyway without instructions like retain possession etc. So I concentrated on winning the ball back as quick as poss with my team instructions

Much higher defensive line, hassle opponents, stay on feet, player roles and duties [e.g. defensive winger] with a formation that closes down high up the pitch [4231] = 60-65% regularly even against Bayern

[match8886]

I am somewhat new to FM (played a little FM12, then jumped straight to FM14). I have burned over a few hundred hours on testing and creating counter tactics that just burst down to the other end (usually invites opponent to pressure you like mad...and end up with 20-30% possession only a game) and I have also worked on possession ones before...trying to control the pace and possession and slowly work it in. Below are just some of my understandings from all the readings and testings.

...

But I want to create a team that regularly dominates possession. 60-65% based on passing ability, short passing, patience and tactics and players that are employed to suit.

I know this will be much harder than just winning by going direct, but I want to do it, and hopefully results will follow

So, a list of things to do, please feel free to add or correct me. Would really appreciate the chance to learn off you all:-

Players

Sign short passing midfielders, and no long passers - Iniesta yes, Gerrard no

Goalkeepers with good distribution

Dribblers yes or no?

No to big brutes in the forwards, yes to passers and creators

Team Instructions

Retain Possession

Lower Tempo (or Much Lower Tempo)

Shorter Passing

Hassle Opponents

Play Out Of Defence

Work Ball Into Box

Pass Into Space?

Run At Defence?

Drill Crosses?

Push Higher Up

Player Instructions

Close Down More

Pass It Shorter

Fewer Risky Passes

Shoot Less Often

--PLAYER--

There is a player instruction for offensive players to "shoot less often". I recommend to employee that one if you plan to work ball into box. Your player will perform far less 50/50 shots. This however will also backfire when you run up against a bunker opponent who simply don't give you any openings...(I got games with 20+ shots...and some at 5 at most...)

I almost always have Goalkeepers distribute to defence and run the risk of defender's poor first touch. Unless you got a great keeper that have good passing capability and pin pointing your target man up the field...else I always see keepers with >50% pass complete rate.

If you run fewer risky passes, you will totally turn your player into bunker mode. They will only try risk passes when it is "safe". I dislike it, but it sure enhances your capability of retaining the possession at the cost of hardly any offence, given that your player got "safe" passing options...else he will still send the ball down the field...

--Team Instruction--

Retain Possession + Shorter Passing...another bunker combo at the cost of hardly any offence. If your goal is to keep the ball...as long as you provide passing options for your player...put these together and you shall see the ball get passed around in the midfield and hardly progress anywhere.

(You only progress when midfield got closed down and only had defenders to pass to...and when the ball reached defender, opponent's strikers closes him down as well. He is then either pass to GK or send the ball flying down the field...and if your striker latch onto the ball, you get a scoring chance. XD)

Drill crosses is an offensive option instruction...doesn't help with keeping possession. Take this or not depends on your tactic and squad...this is for offence.

Hassle Opponents is for taking back possession...should consider looking into coupling this with Player instruction of "Close Down More". Will cause your foul counts to jump...but will put on massive pressure to retake possession. This could backfire too when going against a stand-off counter opponent. Basically those that react to your movements...

Run At Defence is double-edge sword. If your guy got closed down and ran out of options, he will more likely to attempt and take on the tackler. This may then indirectly open up more passing options. BUT the down side, you taking chances to lose possession.

Push Higher Up/Drop Deeper...these should be situational, and doesn't really affect your ability to "retain" possession. If you got a bunker counter opponent...choose drop deeper will stretch them out and potentially open them up. If you got an offensive opponent, pushing up higher will effectively take away the build up and force mistakes. I don't recommend pushing up as it always invite more direct passing...X_X

Have you considered testing with the Fulcrum Silk & Steel tactic? It provides a lot of possession and allows you to win a lot of games. It's the tactic I started with and then evolved a lot from there, my current tactics and formation look nothing like it now but it started me off on this seasons version. Just a suggestion.

LOL, I'm reading it now!! Got my interest...=D thanks!

Oh I understand, completely but I find sometimes using a downloaded tactic will give me ideas and allow me to tweak it a bunch until it is what i want it to be. I posted my tactic in the tactics sharing center, just in case you decide to look for something to use in the meantime.

Will check out shortly after =D thanks again!

With regards to the shouts, I'm sure I read somewhere that the retain possession and shorter passing can be counter productive as explained above. One or the other combined with Control mentality might work better? Not sure about the science behind it but my team certainly played better with one instead of both. Also think I read that pass into space is good for possession as it would be hard if everyone was expected to pass to feet but it may be that someone said pass to feet was bad. Either way I'm using Control, retain possession, pass into space and it's working well.

Yeah~ I usually use Shorter Passing + Control as my base. Don't use retain possession + shorter passing. I see too much that will drive me up the wall when these two are put on...it just doesn't mix well when you want to have some attacking vibe...works great on getting yourself closed down to no options and then pop the ball to moon.

I now use a 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1) that I found online. I tweak it to match my squad's capability and opponent strategy, but it sure is a great starting point.

It is one of the few tactics that I found with balanced defence/offence that actually create results...decent ones.

http://www.footballmanagerstory.com/best-fm-2014-tactics-surprising-4-3-3/

[rvd313]

I play a patient possession game in FM. It's not that difficult really. I get between 60-72% possession most games. Against sides who are superior than me that drops down to about 55-60%. I also tend to score a lot of goals, even against the big sides.

I use the following shouts:

Hassle Opponents - vital for winning the ball back quickly

Play Out of Defence - vital for that patient build up play

Shorter Passing - self-explanatory

Work Ball Into Box - vital for patient build up

Roam from Positions - allows (certain) players to move wherever needed to retain the ball

That's all I need. I've found that 'Retain Possession' is just completely superfluous. When I used that shout I was getting ridiculous amounts of possession but was creating very little chances. I would advise you to use it very sparingly, only in match situations where it would actually help (eg. the last 10 mins of CL final) rather than hinder.

As mentioned Pass Into Space will be counter-productive for possession football, but could be useful in certain situations (eg. a team is pressing you high up the pitch and leaving gaps all over the place). Run At Defence is similarly going to hinder a patient possession game, as it asks your players to be very direct on the ball, albeit direct dribbling rather than direct passing, and again, this shout can be useful in certain situations. Drill Crosses isn't a bad shout if your forwards are midgets, but I personally find that it limits my players options a bit too much for my liking. Push Higher Up would generally be conducive to a possession game, allowing you to win the ball higher up the pitch, but could leave you vulnerable to pacey strikers. Like other shouts, I only use Push Higher Up under certain conditions.

As for player instructions, I don't really use them, so can't really offer any advice other than I think they are unnecessary unless you're trying to create a very specialised role or you have very limited players.

The only player instructions I use is for my GK, who I set to 'Distribute to Defenders' and 'Shorter Passing'.

As for players you should use, you want intelligent players above all else. Teamwork, Off The Ball, Decisions, etc. combined with Passing, Technique, Dribbling, etc.

I use a Sweeper Keeper, though the tend to become a rarity as you advance in your save. You should be looking at Kicking, Composure, Creativity - they don't need Xavi levels of Creativity, just decent enough that they can spot a simple pass in front of them. I can post some screenshots of my keepers (who incidentally have the highest pass completion rate in the league) if you want, to give you an idea.

Good dribblers are ok in a possession system, provided they're not selfish or stupid.

I would recommend that you use defenders who can actually pass the ball, or can at least keep calm enough to make a simple 5-yard pass. One of the things I've been doing recently is actually retraining some DM's to play at CB, as they tend to be better passers of the ball.

[JD nawrat]

I play possession football. I have the following shouts:

To a great success, I might add. If I remove Pass Into Space I will probably retain more possession but we will play less attacking passes. If I drop Retain Possession as well then it may counter this, but I fear I may also lose even more possession, so I stick with these shouts. I could experiment but I am averaging well above 65% most games so I'm happy with these.

The key to possession football is making sure everyone has passing options nearby. Play Narrower and Much Higher Line both ensure this happens.

[nozshand]

basic principle of possession football is high defence line to compress the space + pressing to quickly win back the ball.

[Torskus77]

Each to their own, but I find possession based tactics soooo boring. Pass, pass, pass, pass (repeat 300 times) and they aren't even over the half way line. There is a time and a place for it, but I don't think it is an ideal for a base tactic. Only the best teams in the world really excel at this in real life, and I feel this is the same problem in FM, unless you have the players to do this (relative to your division) you are going to struggle, pass the football to death, and lose goals on the counter when you inevitably play a stray pass.

Good luck though, not saying you shouldn't go for it, if it is what you want to do, it is your game, and you should strive to go where you want with it. I wish I could offer more advice, but I haven't really tried this kind of thing, I prefer quick counter attacks :-)

[JD nawrat]

You can play possession football that isn't based around "pass pass pass pass (repeat 300 times)", though. You can play very, very offensive football whilst also retaining possession, as long as you win the ball back any time you lose it.

[Football Manager.]

You can play possession football that isn't based around "pass pass pass pass (repeat 300 times)", though. You can play very, very offensive football whilst also retaining possession, as long as you win the ball back any time you lose it.

This example a. Manchester City.

A posession based team, boring ? Don't think so.

[Cleon]

This example a. Manchester City.

A posession based team, boring ? Don't think so.

I wouldn't call on average 56% possession a possession based team.

[yonko]

These threads always go similar way - an OP says he wants advice on how to play high possession style and some people crawl from under the rocks to say that it's boring, it faces problems against bunkered defenses, it's overkill, etc. I don't think the OP here asked how do people feel about possession style, he asked how to achieve it. Anyway....

PODSY12345,

I don't know what kind of players you have on your team or which team you are playing with, but here are some of the key attributes to look for in players: first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, creativity, decisions, off the ball, teamwork, agility and stamina.

The formation should be 4-1-2-2-1, although I personally have been playing lately with a striker-less 2-3-2-3 (2CDs, 2WBs, DM, 2MCs, AMRL and AMC). I would suggest to use one of the following 3 mentalities - Control, Standard or Counter. As for Fluidity, I would say use either Balanced or Very Fluid. Team Instructions: Retain Possession, Shorter Passing, Pass Into Space, Work Ball Into Box, Play out of Defense, Drill Crosses, Play Narrower, Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents, Much Lower Tempo.

Very Important: Don't neglect training! Set General Training from the beginning to very high Team Cohesion until your team has 100% squad harmony (or whenever you buy too many new players). With a full squad harmony, you can focus your General Training to alternate between Tactics and Ball Control each week. Set Match Prep to either Teamwork or Attacking Movement after your team is fully familiar with the tactic (read Cleon's pre-season thread about how to achieve full tactic familiarity). In addition, set players to train on specific roles that focus on the above mentioned attributes.

[Cleon]

These threads always go similar way - an OP says he wants advice on how to play high possession style and some people crawl from under the rocks to say that it's boring, it faces problems against bunkered defenses, it's overkill, etc. I don't think the OP here asked how do people feel about possession style, he asked how to achieve it. Anyway....

PODSY12345,

I don't know what kind of players you have on your team or which team you are playing with, but here are some of the key attributes to look for in players: first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, creativity, decisions, off the ball, teamwork, agility and stamina.

The formation should be 4-1-2-2-1, although I personally have been playing lately with a striker-less 2-3-2-3 (2CDs, 2WBs, DM, 2MCs, AMRL and AMC). I would suggest to use one of the following 3 mentalities - Control, Standard or Counter. As for Fluidity, I would say use either Balanced or Very Fluid. Team Instructions: Retain Possession, Shorter Passing, Pass Into Space, Work Ball Into Box, Play out of Defense, Drill Crosses, Play Narrower, Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents, Much Lower Tempo.

Very Important: Don't neglect training! Set General Training from the beginning to very high Team Cohesion until your team has 100% squad harmony (or whenever you buy too many new players). With a full squad harmony, you can focus your General Training to alternate between Tactics and Ball Control each week. Set Match Prep to either Teamwork or Attacking Movement after your team is fully familiar with the tactic (read Cleon's pre-season thread about how to achieve full tactic familiarity). In addition, set players to train on specific roles that focus on the above mentioned attributes.

Focusing tactics and ball control and swapping between them every single week is pointless and will have no real effect. General training is more long term unlike match training so by swapping it around constant you are actually wasting training and not actually getting any real benefit from it especially swapping it weekly. It needs a good month at the very minimum to have any kind of impact and even then it will only be very small. So advising someone to take this approach makes no sense at all and is really bad advice.

PODSY - The shape you choose will also be very important in to how you keep possession and how you utilise it. I play a possession based tactic myself and have around 73%+ possession in most matches and average 3 goals a game. It's a 3-3-1-3 formation similar to this;

Not only does it retain possession but it also uses that possession to be a constant attack. The roles/duties you select are also important if you want to play possession bases. You really do need to watch some matches in full to understand the shape you are using and see how it all links together to bring you the final product.

[wwxxyyzz]

I'm really interested in strikerless formations, and it sounds like your one is doing well for you. Do you have any player instructions? How does your team cope without a striker, when I've tried it the opposition centre backs always have loads of time on the ball and I can't get my players to press successfully.

[yonko]

Focusing tactics and ball control and swapping between them every single week is pointless and will have no real effect. General training is more long term unlike match training so by swapping it around constant you are actually wasting training and not actually getting any real benefit from it especially swapping it weekly. It needs a good month at the very minimum to have any kind of impact and even then it will only be very small. So advising someone to take this approach makes no sense at all and is really bad advice.

It works for me so I offer it as advice. I know General Training is long term and I want my players to put extra effort on the attributes the Tactics and Ball Control categories focus on, in addition to training specific roles. I'm not surprised that it doesn't make sense to you though.

[Cleon]

It works for me so I offer it as advice. I know General Training is long term and I want my players to put extra effort on the attributes the Tactics and Ball Control categories focus on, in addition to training specific roles. I'm not surprised that it doesn't make sense to you though.

Training doesn't work that way though so its not working like that for you, you 'just think it is' rather than it actually having any real impact. You are actually wasting training and it needs around 4 weeks to have any kind of impact. If you search General section of the forums you'll see Riz mention this too. Not sure what you mean by your last comment though when all I was doing was pointing out it doesn't work like you think it does and its even been mentioned by the SI dev team. Unless you are trying to say they're wrong too?......

[PODSY12345]

Some great replies here.

"Play Narrower" - seems to be a common thread, and I'll go for that.

Thanks to those posters who're posting long, detailed replies. Very interesting.

[yonko]

Training doesn't work that way though so its not working like that for you, you 'just think it is' rather than it actually having any real impact. You are actually wasting training and it needs around 4 weeks to have any kind of impact. If you search General section of the forums you'll see Riz mention this too. Not sure what you mean by your last comment though when all I was doing was pointing out it doesn't work like you think it does and its even been mentioned by the SI dev team. Unless you are trying to say they're wrong too?......

Ha, silly me, I actually switch it every month, not every week as I wrote. I don't even know why I wrote "every week" and I'm arguing about it. I guess I have to be more careful when I post from my iPhone. My bad, apologies.

[wereldbol]

i really like using the combination of a regista and a central midfielder on defend duty in the middle of the park. it offers a very solid defensive shape and a very good building base for a possession tactic. i've used it before with two diagonal lines on the drawing board which levelled out on the field through roles and duties but am now using it with three at the back, three up front and wing backs. similar to how cleon set up above but with a false nine up top

works really well for possession and high pressing