Tactically inept

[Clifton14]

Good evening. I have been struggling badly on this years edition, and have started at least 4 or 5 saves which never get past November. As I end quitting in frustration as the results are so inconsistent & the team performs so poorly.

The Tactic

Although my tactic is listed as a 4-5-1, I see it more as a 4-2-3-1. My vision is to play Tiki Taka. Unfortunately, I can't seem too implement this vision with any real success. I struggle with possession, not massively, but enough too lose the possession game by 51% or 52% too average mid-table teams. I am yet to progress past the 4th round of the Capital One Cup, often losing to lower league teams, although I rarely play 1st team players.

Team comparison

As you can see from below. My team strength is is its technique. We have the best passing stats of the league yet we often make less passes on average than the opposition, which is deeply frustrating.

Fixture list

The games that I am losing are being lost by the odd goal which is frustrating. Obviously losing at Old Trafford to UTD isn't too bad but the performance was shocking from my team. Even though it looks a good start to the season, don't be fooled as the performances haven't been as good as you'd expect from a team with the talent involved.

Team summary

Set pieces

Any constructive criticism of my tactic guys? How can I improve? Thanks

[brawla123]

I know exactly how you feel, it's probably not your tactics. I suggest you wait for FM 14.3 patch like I am.

[Rob4590]

4-2-3-1 is not really a 'possession' tactic - if you want that, then a 4-1-2-2-1 is a better bet.

Your tactic itself looks pretty solid - I can't see whether the MCL is a BTB or a BWM though? If the latter then that might be an issue as he will run around everywhere leaving the DLP as your only defensive midfielder.

Not totally sure that your team instructions work though - shorter passing with pass into space seems a bit contradictory, and also not totally convinced that offside trap will work too well with a standard mentality - I would think that you will be relatively deep defensively and so if the offside trap fails, you are going to get punished in very dangerous areas.

[Clifton14]

Hi thanks for your replies. Robo the MCL is a BTB midfield player. Will give it a try and see if things improve.

[felley]

I'm just wondering how the hell you managed to assemble that squad in the first season!?

Krul, Lascelles, Vidal, Marchisio, Pastore, Cabaye, Kolarov, Costa, Coleman and Hulk... Must've cost you £100m!

In fact, that could tie in to your performances being wobbly. Add those buys to Sakho, Mignolet and Toure and you have 13 new faces arriving (most capable of 1st-team football, I should add). Might take a while until those individuals gel into a team. Check your Assistants Team Talk feedback to see how well your squad is blending.

I'm guessing you sold a shedload of players too, right?

[Northernpilgrim]

I know exaclty how you feel, it's probably not your tactics. I suggest you wait for FM 14.3 patch like I am.

I don't think a patch is going to help with issues like this. I've always done reasonably well with FM (usually at least match the expectation set for the season), whereas with FM14, I'm losing 90pc of matches. It can't be that I've suddenly forgotten how to play. I've even tried downloading so called 'wonder tactics' from the SI boards, but it's no better. I don't expect to win the league with Plymouth in my first season, but I do expect that, given that I've added a couple of quality players to an average side, a mid table finish should be the minimum.

[JD nawrat]

Care to share your selected Shouts? It's not actually clear what you're using.

If you want to play possession football, Control or Attacking is more likely to achieve that, firstly. What is your defensive line like? What are you doing to win the ball back when you lose it?

Without telling us what you're actually playing, it's hard to pinpoint why you can't get possession then keep possession.

[brawla123]

I don't think a patch is going to help with issues like this. I've always done reasonably well with FM (usually at least match the expectation set for the season), whereas with FM14, I'm losing 90pc of matches. It can't be that I've suddenly forgotten how to play. I've even tried downloading so called 'wonder tactics' from the SI boards, but it's no better. I don't expect to win the league with Plymouth in my first season, but I do expect that, given that I've added a couple of quality players to an average side, a mid table finish should be the minimum.

Me too but even if i meet my expectations, if I'm not enjoying the game then I simply cannot play it.

[Guest]

Amazing how only a few people apparently have these m.e issues that the new patch will magically help. I must have a version of FM that has a different match engine. I have a feeling the new patch will not help a few of you either, perhaps if you want to persist on this forum you ask for help and try and learn from your mistakes a s a few of us have done. Either way it's a tactical forum not a moan about FM in every section forum and it's becoming tiresome reading the usual "It's the m.e, it's the m.e moans."

To the op, as has already been said if that is a BWM then it's a bad idea and has also been said the formation is not the best for a possession based game.Also a bbm setting (if he is not a bwm) might be a bad idea too, I would watch to see if he is getting in your if or ap's way and to be honest he will be leaving your other cm'er alone to handle the whole cm again. The off-sides trap is only really for a high line which you will not have with your starting tactic. Also why are you not using the retain possession shout to help?

[brawla123]

Amazing how only a few people apparently have these m.e issues that the new patch will magically help. I must have a version of FM that has a different match engine. I have a feeling the new patch will not help a few of you either, perhaps if you want to persist on this forum you ask for help and try and learn from your mistakes a s a few of us have done. Either way it's a tactical forum not a moan about FM in every section forum and it's becoming tiresome reading the usual "It's the m.e, it's the m.e moans."

SI have acknowledged the ME has problems, so what are you talking about?

[Cleon]

Lets not derail the thread with comments that have nothing to do with the opening post. There is a feedback thread and a bugs forum for all other issues, no need to bring them into here

[Guest]

SI have acknowledged the SI has problems, so what are you talking about?

I know exaclty how you feel, it's probably not your tactics. I suggest you wait for FM 14.3 patch like I am.

That is not helpful to the op who does have some holes in his tactic. The fact you can't help him identify any problems but go to your default "It's the m.e." shows you are not grasping tactical issues.

There certainly are some minor issues that SI need to resolve, but nothing that would stop you doing well in FM or make this game unplayable. The patch is not going to help your save at all or improve your enjoyment of the game.

[brawla123]

That is not helpful to the op who does have some holes in his tactic. The fact you can't help him identify any problems but go to your default "It's the m.e." shows you are not grasping tactical issues.

There certainly are some minor issues that SI need to resolve, but nothing that would stop you doing well in FM or make this game unplayable. The patch is not going to help your save at all or improve your enjoyment of the game.

Okay, whatever. To the OP, I suggest that with the players you've acquired to make your team stronger you should try to play more attacking football. Looking at your Man Utd match your main problem was lack of possession which is expected when going away, so maybe try to play counter attacking football in those games and maybe exploit the flanks to hit them on the break. Vidal is best as a box-to-box midfielder so maybe make use of that and see if it makes a difference. I think Suarez should be given a different role too, something that will give him a better chance to be more creative, like an advanced forward or whatever his best role is. You have the best passing as you have shown so maybe put retain possession into your instructions along with work ball into the box. I also think that once you alter your tactics give it a few games for your team to get used to them and then let us know how it goes. Good luck.

[Cleon]

Okay, whatever. To the OP, I suggest that with the players you've acquired to make your team stronger you should try to play more attacking football. Looking at your Man Utd match your main problem was lack of possession which is expected when going away, so maybe try to play counter attacking football in those games and maybe exploit the flanks to hit them on the break. Vidal is best as a box-to-box midfielder so maybe make use of that and see if it makes a difference. I think Suarez should be given a different role too, something that will give him a better chance to be more creative, like an advanced forward or whatever his best role is. You have the best passing as you have shown so maybe put retain possession into your instructions along with work ball into the box. I also think that once you alter your tactics give it a few games for your team to get used to them and then let us know how it goes. Good luck.

Advanced forward isn't a creative role and he already has a creative role in the DLF. Having Vidal as a BBM is suicide in this formation, he needs the MC to hold position and not wander. Exploiting the flanks in this shape is pointless because it gives the fullback/wingbacks and wingers more attacking and focuses the play down both flanks. It also tells them to run from deep and cross the ball more often. Which will make his team lose their defensive shape and struggle to get back into position and it already seems he has big issues defensively.

This is some of the worse advice I've seen in a long time, no wonder you have issues

To the OP - Why use offside trap when you play standard and don't push up? Seems pointless and is actually risky playing off side trap when you defend deep. You also use a DLF/AP/IF and they will all be using a similar kind of space so you might want to look at this in more detail and make it so you are using more of the pitch.

[brawla123]

Advanced forward isn't a creative role and he already has a creative role in the DLF. Having Vidal as a BBM is suicide in this formation, he needs the MC to hold position and not wander. Exploiting the flanks in this shape is pointless because it gives the fullback/wingbacks and wingers more attacking and focuses the play down both flanks. It also tells them to run from deep and cross the ball more often.

This is some of the worse advice I've seen in a long time, no wonder you have issues

To the OP - Why use offside trap when you play standard and don't push up? Seems pointless and is actually risky playing off side trap when you defend deep. You also use a DLF/AP/IF and they will all be using a similar kind of space so you might want to look at this in more detail and make it so you are using more of the pitch.

LOL it seems to work for me though.. I like to use players to get the best out in their preferred roles. He can use Marchisio to hold position, Vidal holding the midfield is a waste of a good player as he can give you something attacking-wise and defensively.

[SpartyOn]

I'm just wondering how the hell you managed to assemble that squad in the first season!?

Krul, Lascelles, Vidal, Marchisio, Pastore, Cabaye, Kolarov, Costa, Coleman and Hulk... Must've cost you £100m!

In fact, that could tie in to your performances being wobbly. Add those buys to Sakho, Mignolet and Toure and you have 13 new faces arriving (most capable of 1st-team football, I should add). Might take a while until those individuals gel into a team. Check your Assistants Team Talk feedback to see how well your squad is blending.

I'm guessing you sold a shedload of players too, right?

Agree with this. If you turn the squad over like this at the start of all your saves and you've never made it past November, you've yet to really play with a cohesive team. Your results haven't been that bad and your tactics aren't terrible. Be patient, keep morale high and things should eventually come together nicely.

[Cleon]

LOL it seems to work for me though.. I like to use players to get the best out in their preferred roles. He can use Marchisio to hold position, Vidal holding the midfield is a waste of a good player as he can give you something attacking-wise and defensively.

In the 4-2-3-1 you need the 2 MC's to hold position its the most vital part of the tactic. I guarantee it doesn't work for you and it costs you goals on the counter or by direct balls when the attacking MC moves out of position and I'll gladly point this out to you and show you examples if you upload your save game.

Getting the best out of a role doesn't mean it works as a unit.

[brawla123]

In the 4-2-3-1 you need the 2 MC's to hold position its the most vital part of the tactic. I guarantee it doesn't work for you and it costs you goals on the counter or by direct balls when the attacking MC moves out of position and I'll gladly point this out to you and show you examples if you upload your save game.

Getting the best out of a role doesn't mean it works as a unit.

Okay, thanks for the tip. What about a BBM with an anchor man behind him? I've gone back to FM11 but I'll keep that in mind when I resume 14. Thanks.

[tomtuck01]

If you want to play possession football, Control or Attacking is more likely to achieve that, firstly. What is your defensive line like? What are you doing to win the ball back when you lose it?

It's easy enough to play with the "Counter" strategy and massively dominate, it's just about getting the shouts right;

That's 760 passes completed at 89% success rate. 67% possession.

[Guest]

Okay, thanks for the tip. What about a BBM with an anchor man behind him? I've gone back to FM11 but I'll keep that in mind when I resume 14. Thanks.

That would be alright because he has cover behind him. That would however be a different formation and also it seems like you're looking at things from the point of view of what suits my player best as opposed to what suits my tactics best. The BBM might be fine with a anchor behind but what other roles are in the team and how would his role impact their roles and their space?

[brawla123]

That would be alright because he has cover behind him. That would however be a different formation and also it seems like you're looking at things from the point of view of what suits my player best as opposed to what suits my tactics best. The BBM might be fine with a anchor behind but what other roles are in the team and how would his role impact their roles and their space?

Yeah I never really thought it out that way. That's probably why my team sometimes don't play how I expect them too.

[Clifton14]

Hi thank you for the kind input guys. I made some of the changes suggested but still ended up being humiliated by Chelsea.

Liverpool V Chelsea

Liverpool passing stats

Chelsea Passing stats

Action zones

[tomtuck01]

The scoreline might have been humiliating, but just look at the stats; you played much better than in the previous game you posted away at Mancheter United, (albeit away from home).

Progress certainly made I'd say.

[Cleon]

You should look at how the goals you conceded were given away. Watch the goals back and pause the game then see your players positions and find out what your players are actually doing.

[Clifton14]

[video=youtube;TwsCYgDdzHQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwsCYgDdzHQ

[Guest]

Your goalie. Set him to shorter passing and distribute to defenders. He probably gave the ball away himself around 10 times at least.

[Clifton14]

That is what I have done but it won't work. He just keeps kicking long. Even when I was defending deep.

[brawla123]

That is what I have done but it won't work. He just keeps kicking long. Even when I was defending deep.

I have the same problem.

[Clifton14]

Liverpool V Norwich 1v1

Another disappointing result. 90% of the goals I concede are coming from corners. Most of my free-kicks are so widely off target that it's laughable. Considering some of their stats are 17-18 etc. Does changing your backroom staff have a huge impact? as most of my staff are world class.

Liverpool Passing

Norwich Passing

Formations

[Clifton14]

Look how ridicules the league table is smh.

[Guest]

There is an issue with corners that needs to be resolved in the next patch but I just leave everything default on corners and have no problems. What changes have you made to the tactic? What shouts are you using? We need to know so that we can help you out. Also your gk have you told him to pass to a specific player?

[Clifton14]

The shouts that I have as standard are. Pass it shorter, retain possession, work ball into box, play out of defense.

[Rob4590]

Remove retain possession - it will simply lead to loads of passing around with no attacking threat (as shown by your passing graph with pretty much nothing going into the opposition's box.

Did you remove the offside trap?

[Bluenosebear]

I have played champ since CM2 italian edition and every year I get worse.

This year I couldn't buy a win so I decided to go back to basics and forget everything i've ever learned about playing, my brief was i wanted to play with wingers, 2 strikers, attack fast and score goals.

I went a balanced attacking 4-4-2 with 3 core instructions hassle opponents, stay on feet, work ball into box. M players line up like this

fb(a)-DC-DC-fb(s)

w(s)-AP(a)-DLP(s)-W(a)

AF(a)-DLF(s)

If i'm to deep i drop, if i'm ahead I sometimes let them be more expressive, if I need to be more direct I switch that on and if I see big gaps in the middle I let them play through the middle.

By god i'm loving the game again, I have ding dong scoring games and i'm relearing everything, currently playing as Rotherham in a career game and if I can bring in some free transfers in the summer we may just do something

I may even do a back to basics thread

[Guest]

I have played champ since CM2 italian edition and every year I get worse.

This year I couldn't buy a win so I decided to go back to basics and forget everything i've ever learned about playing, my brief was i wanted to play with wingers, 2 strikers, attack fast and score goals.

I went a balanced attacking 4-4-2 with 3 core instructions hassle opponents, stay on feet, work ball into box. M players line up like this

fb(a)-DC-DC-fb(s)

w(s)-AP(a)-DLP(s)-W(a)

AF(a)-DLF(s)

If i'm to deep i drop, if i'm ahead I sometimes let them be more expressive, if I need to be more direct I switch that on and if I see big gaps in the middle I let them play through the middle.

By god i'm loving the game again, I have ding dong scoring games and i'm relearing everything, currently playing as Rotherham in a career game and if I can bring in some free transfers in the summer we may just do something

I may even do a back to basics thread

This kinda post is so refreshing to read, I think people have started over analysing their tactics at times.

[Clifton14]

Yes I removed the off side trap & I removed retain possession.

[Cleon]

You should look at how the goals you conceded were given away. Watch the goals back and pause the game then see your players positions and find out what your players are actually doing.

You still need to do this.

[Los_Culés]

Getting the best out of a role doesn't mean it works as a unit.

That is so TRUE!

[Clifton14]

Most goals conceded are coming from corners. I have defending set pieces on default & training set to def set pieces but still conceding most goals from corners

[Los_Culés]

Most goals conceded are coming from corners. I have defending set pieces on default & training set to def set pieces but still conceding most goals from corners

Defending corners always was a headache in FM. Try to change man marking players to "go back", put someone with high anticipation to mark near post and tell two or three players to "stay forward". I am still on FM11 but it might work for you.

As regards of the goalie distribution, try to tell your goalkeeper to hold up the ball. This way your defenders will have a more time to make themselves available for a short pass. But also be aware of the fact that opposition will have more time to retreat and start to press your backline in a more organized way. Very handy to have defenderrs with decent composure .

[Clifton14]

Defending corners always was a headache in FM. Try to change man marking players to "go back", put someone with high anticipation to mark near post and tell two or three players to "stay forward". I am still on FM11 but it might work for you.

As regards of the goalie distribution, try to tell your goalkeeper to hold up the ball. This way your defenders will have a more time to make themselves available for a short pass. But also be aware of the fact that opposition will have more time to retreat and start to press your backline in a more organized way. Very handy to have defenderrs with decent composure .

This edition has been the worst for it. Concede a goal from AI Corners. Not to mention AI GKS are playing like Peter Shilton V Pele or Cech at his best every singe match. Which is crazy