OH NO, I am playing like Barcelona.

[7hegam3]

Hello,

I started the Concord Rangers career with setting up plenty of pre-season friendlies giving me a chance to get the best formation. I kept it simple with 4-4-2 and used the pre-season friendlies to tweak the formation and get any players I could I though will be better in their respective positions.

There is only 1 thing I couldn't sort out, I had the problem during the pre-season and now carrying it to the league matches. The problem of having TONS of possession but no shots at goal. Although I am still unbeaten in pre-season and league, with 2 wins in the league against Basingstoke and Chelmsford.

I am hoping someone here will be able to advise me on what the problem is.

Thanks

I will post a picture of the Formation I am using and will give explanation to the instructions I have used.

Hassle Opponents : Made opponents with possession nervous and drew some mistakes and helped get possession back.

Work Ball into Box : If any shots were taken they would be long-ranged, this instruction helped in getting ball into final third and some good goals.

Be More Disciplined : No specific reason, just thought low skilled players don't need to get fancy.

Drop Deeper : I noticed even against weak teams my defence would get beat with 1 long ball from the opposition because of the lack of speed, this helped in keeping my defence intact.

Shorter Passing : Even with this instruction my players still try long balls, I asked for shorter just because they kept giving the ball away to opposition.

Individual Instructions : Only the Goal Keeper and the back 4 have been instructed to make shorter passes, because they kept giving the ball away with hoofing the ball forward.

[Torskus77]

I'd just like to point out, you said only the back 4 have been instructed to pass shorter. You have instructed the whole team to pass shorter.

[7hegam3]

I'd just like to point out, you said only the back 4 have been instructed to pass shorter. You have instructed the whole team to pass shorter.

Yes I have asked the entire team to pass shorter, but during the matches I noticed my defence and GK giving the ball away because they would still hoof it forward. So the 'INDIVIDUAL' instruction to them was to 'Pass Shorter'.

[allyc31]

Are you creating chances? If so, what kind of chances are you creating?

I'm not sure about this but maybe having a Defensive Forward (Defend) and a Advanced Forward isn't the best approach.

I think the Defensive Forward on defend will drop very deep to hassle the oppo midfield which might leave your Advanced Forward very issolated.

Also, why have you gone shorter passing with Counter? Whenever i set up a counter attacking 442, i leave passing as it is and give my dlp More Direct passing.

[7hegam3]

Are you creating chances? If so, what kind of chances are you creating?

I'm not sure about this but maybe having a Defensive Forward (Defend) and a Advanced Forward isn't the best approach.

I think the Defensive Forward on defend will drop very deep to hassle the oppo midfield which might leave your Advanced Forward very issolated.

Also, why have you gone shorter passing with Counter? Whenever i set up a counter attacking 442, i leave passing as it is and give my dlp More Direct passing.

I will have 5-8 shots in total and only 1-3 on target. All within the box with occasional long shot.

I just wanted 1 forward to help out in midfield, helps against midfield focused team. (What do you suggest I should have it?)

Because players kept hoofing it forward and this kept pressure on my defence. (I will try out your suggestion and see how it goes.)

[7hegam3]

[Rob4590]

Because players kept hoofing it forward and this kept pressure on my defence. (I will try out your suggestion and see how it goes.)

Defenders will hoof it forward no matter their passing settings if they have no passing options available to them. So when they hoof it - did they have anyone close to them to actually pass to? If they didn't, then you need to tweak the midfield roles to give them better options - otherwise trying to force them to pass shorter will be useless.

[SnUrF]

Defenders will hoof it forward no matter their passing settings if they have no passing options available to them. So when they hoof it - did they have anyone close to them to actually pass to? If they didn't, then you need to tweak the midfield roles to give them better options - otherwise trying to force them to pass shorter will be useless.

Infact forcing them to try and play even shorter might end up with them doing just the opposite for the above explained reason.

-SnUrF

[RonnySanchez]

You are too negative,

rigid + more disciplined + drop deeper + shorter = pointless possesion

If you have players capable (relative to the league you play in) of playing playmakers, and you have choosen two playmakers (the DLP(d) and AP(s)) in your setup then you really should give them some freedom to make plays,

if you know why you are playing rigid and counter then it is ok to play it but you really should consider taking of "Be More Disciplined", "shorter passing" and "drop deeper".

The rigid counter is already very deep setup and it is already very restrictive with creative freedom adding more of it will lead to killing nearly all goalscoring treats.

after you take off those three instructions you could evaluate how it goes and tweak where necessery.

[7hegam3]

Defenders will hoof it forward no matter their passing settings if they have no passing options available to them. So when they hoof it - did they have anyone close to them to actually pass to? If they didn't, then you need to tweak the midfield roles to give them better options - otherwise trying to force them to pass shorter will be useless.

I made them pass shorter because every long ball they attempted went back to the opposition, and yes some of the long balls they did were unnecessary. I will take them off and adjust the wide players to give more options if that is the case.

[7hegam3]

You are too negative,

rigid + more disciplined + drop deeper + shorter = pointless possesion

If you have players capable (relative to the league you play in) of playing playmakers, and you have choosen two playmakers (the DLP(d) and AP(s)) in your setup then you really should give them some freedom to make plays,

if you know why you are playing rigid and counter then it is ok to play it but you really should consider taking of "Be More Disciplined", "shorter passing" and "drop deeper".

The rigid counter is already very deep setup and it is already very restrictive with creative freedom adding more of it will lead to killing nearly all goalscoring treats.

after you take off those three instructions you could evaluate how it goes and tweak where necessery.

Spot on.

I was worried that Concord Rangers are newly promoted and were expected to be relegated I wanted to make sure I don't give away sloppy goals.

Every team I will be playing in my league will be better than me but I know my attackers can find the holes, hence I opted for Counter mentality.

I will test out the suggestions and report back.

[rune_star]

Drop deeper coupled with hassle, is usually also a sure way of getting ripped apart formation wise... Not saying it doesn't work, but your max closing down players will be all over the place, trying to harass the opponent, while the rest of the team will be going backwards to get 'deep'. This WILL create huge amounts of space if the opponent get past the initial pressing player(s)...

[Bluenosebear]

I play 4-4-2 and always get caught out by the long ball over not sure how to prevent it and put it down to just that formation, I score lots though so im never bothered (although i would like to combat it long run). I play attacking balanced stay on feet and hassle opponents now and again i expolit the middle.

I'm far from an expert but if your on drop deeper with counter and short passing aren't you getting a lot of possesion because they're all just passing to the nearest man which in your case would be deep and not looking to exploit any space?

[7hegam3]

Drop deeper coupled with hassle, is usually also a sure way of getting ripped apart formation wise... Not saying it doesn't work, but your max closing down players will be all over the place, trying to harass the opponent, while the rest of the team will be going backwards to get 'deep'. This WILL create huge amounts of space if the opponent get past the initial pressing player(s)...

Suggestions ... ?

[7hegam3]

I play 4-4-2 and always get caught out by the long ball over not sure how to prevent it and put it down to just that formation, I score lots though so im never bothered (although i would like to combat it long run). I play attacking balanced stay on feet and hassle opponents now and again i expolit the middle.

I'm far from an expert but if your on drop deeper with counter and short passing aren't you getting a lot of possesion because they're all just passing to the nearest man which in your case would be deep and not looking to exploit any space?

Yes, I did notice my players getting beat easily by 1 long ball from opponents defence in 4-4-2, but I like the balance it provides.

I dominate possession in all zones, I just need to get that possession converted to chances.

[SnUrF]

How about giving the players you want to do the pressing PIs to do so. With hassle you might end up with everyone chasing the ball all over the pitch.

-SnUrF

[fmFutbolManager]

- I wouldn't play shorter passing with the counter instruction. You want to invite pressure from the opposition and then play direct to the wide areas (since your middle two are not attacking). Exploit flanks and playing more direct would give you a faster outlet and more chance of creating overloads against the opposition when you're moving at pace.

- I wouldn't play 'hassle opponents' at this level. You'll be pulling your defense out of position trying to close down players, leaving gaps for exploit. You say you keep getting caught out. Your players will be looking to close down quickly, rather than dropping back and inviting pressure but maintaining shape.

- From what I can see (image quality poor here) you are playing with wingbacks (one set to attack). It could be that they're bombing forwards rather than offering an outleft for the CDs, which is why they're playing longer balls.

From experience using a counter mentality I've had good results with a DM in front of the defence. Ask my defenders to play short, but with direct for the team. When the defence recycle the play, they distribute it to a more capable DM (through the middle) and let him control the play.

[7hegam3]

Result,

Although the picture shows Hassle Opponents, please note that I had removed that during the matches.

After considering all the suggestions given here I have tweaked the formation and I must say the results are promising.

Although I have a little less formation compared to what I had before I am having plenty of shots at goal with a few CCCs. Obviously because my players lack in skills score every chance they get, they are doing enough to get me the vital wins.

From average of 4 Total Shots all game I am now doing 12 Total Shots per game on average with a good number of them on target.

What I have done...?

I changed the Strikers' Roles from Defensive Forward and Advanced Forward to Target Man and Poacher respectively.

Removed all the Instructions I had previously, to just 'Work Ball into Box'

I asked only the midfield to close down more.

Only the DCs are assigned to short passing because their long balls ALWAYS go back to opponents.

Although I was still winning before the changes the lack of CCCs was a worry but that has been sorted now. I have possession AND CCCs which is always a win:win situation.

Thank you all for your help, and good luck in your own endeavours.

[Rob4590]

Looks a good solid setup now - I'd suggest one final tweak - swap the sides of the 2 forwards otherwise you may get the TM dropping into the space that the AP is in. If he is in front of the DLP(D) then there will be more room for him to play in

[alinp]

With a Counter mentality, I think you need to give your players the freedom to play the "right" ball, so if it were me I'd take off all the Shorter Passing instuctions, team and player, but you could add back Play out of Defence.

I tend to agree with most of the other comments. If you want to Hassle, then it's generally accepted that you need to reduce space as a team, so Drop Deeper is the wrong way to go. Push Higher Up would be more effective IF you want to Hassle.

Being More Disciplined (IMHO) is a good call with Hassle as it counter balances the instruction and help your team retain shape.

[7hegam3]

- I wouldn't play shorter passing with the counter instruction. You want to invite pressure from the opposition and then play direct to the wide areas (since your middle two are not attacking). Exploit flanks and playing more direct would give you a faster outlet and more chance of creating overloads against the opposition when you're moving at pace.

- I wouldn't play 'hassle opponents' at this level. You'll be pulling your defense out of position trying to close down players, leaving gaps for exploit. You say you keep getting caught out. Your players will be looking to close down quickly, rather than dropping back and inviting pressure but maintaining shape.

- From what I can see (image quality poor here) you are playing with wingbacks (one set to attack). It could be that they're bombing forwards rather than offering an outleft for the CDs, which is why they're playing longer balls.

From experience using a counter mentality I've had good results with a DM in front of the defence. Ask my defenders to play short, but with direct for the team. When the defence recycle the play, they distribute it to a more capable DM (through the middle) and let him control the play.

Thanks for suggestions,

I changed the roles of the strikers to more attacking and supporting each other now my attacks are both middle and wide.

Yes I noticed giving away space in defence because of the closing down, I have removed that and it is much more solid.

They took long balls regardless of players available or not, the shorter passing instruction has them pass to my DLP, who CAN reach my forwards.

My DLP is filling in the role of DM, and he is doing a pretty good job.

[7hegam3]

Looks a good solid setup now - I'd suggest one final tweak - swap the sides of the 2 forwards otherwise you may get the TM dropping into the space that the AP is in. If he is in front of the DLP(D) then there will be more room for him to play in

I will certainly look out for that, although I haven't had a problem with his positioning but would certainly wouldn't want my APL running into trouble. THanks.

[bababooey]

Chances are you're having tons of possession and few shots because of your team mentality.

Check out wwfan's guide to building Barcelona, he uses the same "counter" mentality. Why? Because the lower the mentality the more "deep" possession your team will have as you'll be building from the ball slowly rather than quickly getting forward like you'd see on "control" or "attack". Granted, you can achieve high possession numbers with any mentality but, generally speaking the lower mentalities suit that style better because of the lower tempo and shorter passing from your more attack-minded players.