Defensive issues

[luckydutch]

My team is currently suffering from some serious defensive issues at the moment. They keep drifting out of position or closing down the completely wrong person leaving huge holes in my defense.

A recent example was my left back drifting far too centrally then going to close down a striker who was already covered by a DC leaving the opposing winger with about 30 yards of space and an open shot on goal.

Other examples include DCs charging forwards out of position to close someone down leaving a big hole for someone else to run in to.

I don't have the hassle opponents shout activated nor do I have the close down more instruction for any individuals and I'm playing a reasonably conservative 'control' strategy. They are top class defenders too!

It seems that no matter what I do I cant get my back 4 to hold their shape. In the past I've tried playing a Half back and just one MC but I found it left one of my wide attacking men too isolated (the one on the side of the half back) which I wasn't a fan of.

[bababooey]

If you could post a screen shot of your tactic that would be lovely.

But here's what I can tell you right off the bat..

A control strategy is not reasonably conservative. It is the 2nd most aggressive strategy (barring the extreme of "overload). The name is a bit misleading.

Sure the team will be probing but control still = a quick tempo, more direct passing, high d-line, high pressing / closing down, etc. It's right behind "attacking" so go figure.

An example of a relatively conservative mentality would be "standard" because it's a good mix or "counter" because it's a step below that.

So even though you are not using "hassle opponents" your overall mentality (control) = a lot of closing down and pressing. This should be evident when watching the matches.

If the back 4 are not holding there shape it is likely because they're being dragged out of position to deal with threats. You then have to ask WHY is that happening? Are they getting enough help from your other players? Is your tactical approach prone to giving up a lot of space on the break? Chances are you're being counter-attacked and so you're seeing your players react quickly and aggressively.

A good way to play defense is to link it with your desired play style. If you want to play like Mourinho, you would sit deeper, and counter. If you want to play like Arsenal you'd probably want to be aggressive off the ball but patient on it. If you wanted to play like Dortmund you'd be pressing very high and playing a very fast attacking game. If you wanted to play like Barca you'd want to use a lower mentality, to encourage shorter passing, along with high pressing and closing down.

So you gotta figure out how to apply these concepts into your plan. I'll give you an example..

Here's how I've set up my Arsenal team (generally)

I want to play a possession game with short passing, but also press the AI and try to win the ball back higher up.

So what do we do?

We play on a "standard" or "counter" mentality. This allows for the slow build up play and shorter passing.

Then, we add in "hassle opponents" and sometimes "push higher" which gives me the defensive bite I'm looking for.

Other instructions are added but they're not relevant here.

Hope this helps.

[luckydutch]

For some reason I cant post a screen shot, the uploader comes up with an 'undefined' error.

I tend to play either a 4-2-2-2 (wide with IFs) or a 4-2-3-1 (wide with IFs and AP/Enganche) while I don't employ a DMC, I do have at least one MC on defensive duty and the other on a deep support roles such as DLP so the defense should be getting plenty of support from midfield.

I tend to play either short passing or default passing with default tempo, default pressing but I ask them to be more disciplined, retain possession, pace into space and work the ball into the box.

I can see nothing in there that is contributing to my defense wildly running around closing down players and losing their shape. In the first example I gave, the full back left his position to close down someone who was already being closed down by the DC, I've been back to watch the goal again and confirm he decided to double-up on the striker and leave the IF completely unmarked.

There needs to be a defensive instruction 'don't be an idiot' specifically for my defense I think.

[bababooey]

Here's how to get around the uploading error:

- upload the pic to imgur

- once the pic is on imgur, copy the "bb code" on the right of your screen

- post it into your post, it should look like " without the quotes.

The 4-2-2-2 wide is basically a 4-2-4 because the 2 wide attacking mids are essentially wide forwards. So that is a very aggressive formation!

The 4-2-3-1 without DM's is very tricky to set up properly. Essentially, you can dominate games and lose 1-0. You can be thrashed 4-0 by a crap team, etc. It's hard to get it consistently working.

Here's my take:

To properly defend you have to make sure your team is playing a style that suits the players. At Arsenal I play a possession game, because it suits the team. Our attack, which is rather slow at times and patient, really helps our defending. I'm first in the table after 16 games because of that, we simply do not allow goals. I think we've conceded 7, and 4 of those were against City in one bad match.

Granted, I also use "hassle opponents" and "push higher" in most matches. The idea is to press the other team so they don't have time on the ball. And then when in possession, we play a patient game.

How exactly do you want to play? Possession? For example.. "pass into space" + "retain possession" doesn't make much sense because pass into space = more risky passing which does't = retaining the ball.

[luckydutch]

It's true I do find the 4-2-3-1 very frustrating. I can win games 4-0 or totally dominate a game but be unable to penetrate the opposition and lose 1-0 from a set piece. Utd are second (behind me) in the league atm playing this 4-2-3-1 and while they don't have as good attackers as me and so don't score as many goals, they've conceded HALF as many! HALF! The 4-2-2-2 wide has basically carried me this season as it seems to murder teams that play narrow (and 2/3rd of the prem seem to do this) but it is far from perfect and crumbles to any 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 who both attack and defend in numbers down the wing.

I suppose I haven't really got an specific identity like your slow possession football. My team has quite good passing stats across the board but possesses great pace on the wings so I don't wish to play a slow patient game, pressing high up the pitch as that won't utilize their pace. I also don't really like the 'counter' mentality as it causes my players to make careless long balls (even with the short passing and retain possession shouts) and throw away possession. I might get 1 or 2 goals on the counter per game but that's at the expense of giving the opposition the greater share of the possession and allowing them to attack me and create chances.

I've also tried a 4-3-2-1 which kept a lot of bodies back which helped defensively and it used the pace down the wings but they mostly just ran up the pitch, found themselves isolated and had nobody to pass to. I also hated playing a single striker unsupported by an AMC, the service he got has horrendous and he rarely, if ever got involved in the game.

What formation/tactic/shouts can I use that will utilize the pace and dribbling of my inside forwards and score lots of goals but will also be capable of keeping a clean sheet?

[luckydutch]

Here is a perfect example of my defense just not paying attention:

What is that wing back doing?! He's way too central and marking nobody. There's no need to be there as there's two CBs (and in this case a half back too) within 5 yards of him. All the while, the winger he should be marking is charging into half a field of open space, receives the pass with plenty of time to shoot and score.

I even had tight marking always on that particular winger as I knew he was going to be their danger man.

I just cant seem to stop this type of error where my players are just in totally the wrong position for no reason.

[jac4121993]

Have you set your fullback to specifically mark that winger? Try that and see if it works.

[lewis999]

This could be clutching at straws on my behalf so ignore it if it seems stupid but.......as you have set tight marking on him (through opposition instructions I take it?) and not specific instructions from your full back like Jac41211993 said then by default your ML or AML might be doing that tight marking you assigned and not your left back so he's always running back to track him and your DL thinks that threat is dealt with so he's looking for something to do inside.

I babbled there so you might not understand what I mean so ask if not.