Getting Ozil, wilshere and Ramsey in to play together

[Thyra13]

I had started a game with arsenal and am now in my second season... with dumb luck and almost 15 goals off corners i managed to win the premiership last season.

I've been using a bit of an off balanced tactic that is starting to give me nightmares... I'm not sure if it needs tweaks, or the setup is just too unbalanced to work..

Its a 4-2-3-1 bit in the 3 i use an AMCL AMC AMR. chose this as i wanted to find a way to fit ozil (AMC), wilshere (AMCL) and Ramsey (MC) in the same team.

My play is very inconsistent, when its good, it flows but when its bad, my god, i get dominated by nearly anyone..

I've attached a screenshot.

In the 1st season I had a different setup -

Problems :

1) fluidity - teams that push the line high and press seem to alway catch me in possession.

2) Huntelaar - has 15 goals, but 3 hat tricks - more than half his goals came in 3 games... cant seem to get him to work... although its better than last year

Benteke (out on loan) is even worse, and Jesse struggles up top as well.

3) creating chances - in games where im bossing the midfield, i still seem to struggle in consistently creating opportunities

4) walcott - useless would be too nice a word... just runs to the byline and gets a cross blocked almost every time he gets the ball

AMCL - I've tried AM(s) - AM(a) and nothing seems to consistently get wilshere to play well

AMR - tried W(a), W(s), IF(a) <-- the worst

AMC - tried T(a) and ozil was brilliant, but i wasnt solid in defense vs. quality opponents

Wondering what you guys think?

perhaps ozil to AMC®?

and can huntelaar fit in this system?

Thanks!

[THOG]

With Fluid + Attacking, your front four are going to be extremely aggressive. You're basically telling your team to swarm forward and try to overwhelm the opposition at every opportunity. If the opposition defence is even slightly well organized, your players are going to get frustrated while all the high risk passing will give away a steady stream of counterattacking opportunities. If you go in with morale issues, you just won't be able to pull off this style as too many mistakes will be made. Huntelaar is also not the best striker if you're trying to pick apart an opponent. He's really dependent on getting a clear opportunity on the break, though he's one of the best in the world when that happens.

You can certainly come out with all-out attack to try to get the early goal, but if it's obviously not working, you need to just drop your mentality and try to draw your opponent out of their third.

A few other notes:

You're crowding the centre too much. A Shadow Striker, DLF and Advanced Playmaker are going to running all over one another. You don't need more than two attacking midfielders. A CM will provide more balance and add just as much creativity/firepower.

Why Walcott on Support? He's not exactly the best passer/crosser, and you're wasting his pace by asking him to cross earlier. Attack duty makes much more sense.

On Attack mentality, only six of your outfield players are going to be tracking back. That will be a problem against larger sides.

If you're using two wingbacks, keep the double defend duty in midfield for balance.

[JD nawrat]

I would suggest making Wilshere a support role so that he drops deeper and gets more involved and link the midfield and defence - with two Attack roles and two Defend roles in the midfield, there's bound to be a fairly big gap - you do not need two men high up the pitch 'in the hole', especially with huntelaar also dropping deep, AM/S would achieve this. Ozil as an Enganche Trequartista or Advanced Playmaker (attack) can all work fine. Ramsey should be a DLP/D or DLP/S alongside a CM/D, personally I would suggest a DLP/D if you make Wilshere an AM/S. The trio of AP/A, AM/S and DLP/D would provide the best balance.

As THOG suggests, Walcott is wasted as a Support Winger. Make him Attack. Huntelaar doesn't need to be a DLF/S when you have plenty of support directly in behind, so consider making him an AF/A or CF/A.

In order to create more chances, getting Walcott and Huntelaar into space should be key. Perhaps ask them to roam from position and also set your team to Pass Into Space in order to capitalise on the space you attackers do find. The lethal passing from Wilshere and Ozil will be great at playing in these two.

[Thyra13]

Thanks for the replies, I'll make the adjustments, the reason I went w(s) for Walcott was that on attack he just drives to the line and gets crosses blocked or is tackled. I normally use ox as w(s) with instructions to get further forward so he can make runs.

I see the point in Walcott though. Is it Walcott specific? Or should the winger generally be in attack duty?

What if I put ox, Ronaldinho or cazorla wide?

With regard to Wilshire am(s), would you tell him to roam, or run wide with ball? Seeing as Gibbs / coentrao bomb down the left

[JD nawrat]

Thanks for the replies, I'll make the adjustments, the reason I went w(s) for Walcott was that on attack he just drives to the line and gets crosses blocked or is tackled. I normally use ox as w(s) with instructions to get further forward so he can make runs.

I see the point in Walcott though. Is it Walcott specific? Or should the winger generally be in attack duty?

What if I put ox, Ronaldinho or cazorla wide?

With regard to Wilshire am(s), would you tell him to roam, or run wide with ball? Seeing as Gibbs / coentrao bomb down the left

What is it you want Walcott to do? Run to the byline and play decent crosses? Run into space and get through on goals? Play crosses from deep? If you tell us what you want him to do we can maybe help you a little more to replicate what you idealize him doing

Wingers can be whatever you want. Generally speaking, I would make a great passer and/or slow player a W/S, whilst a speedy player and/or great crosser a W/A. However a W/S also needs to be a good crossed too whilst a W/A should be able to pass decently too. Generally speaking though W/S is what you would associate Giggs with as being nowadays (when he plays on the wing). Doesn't often run at defenders, looks for dangerous passes and tries to cross from deep. A W/A in modern football would be Jesus Navas - someone who gets the ball out very wide, runs at his man, tries to get to the byline and plays an appropriate ball into the box and/or striker(s).

Ox can do any job out wide imo, he's a very versatile player. Cazorla is best suited to an AP role (but I do not like APs on the wings personally) but is capable of IF for sure (IF/S imo). Ronaldinho would be best suited to the same as Cazorla but could definitely do a good job as a W/S, because like I said just a little above, he's a dangerous player in space and the deeper he drops (which W/Ss like to do) the more space he'll find, so the more of a thorn he can be in your opposition's side.

e: Oh as for Wilshere, it depends. If you want to allow Gibbs/Coentrao exploit that space then having Wilshere run with will maybe hinder their running because he will be in similar places. Roaming from position can be useful on someone like Wilshere because he's an intelligent player with good attacking movement, but he might also wander too far forward. My advice would be to try him with or without roaming and see how he does. If you like what he does, stick with it. If you don't like it, adjust and change the setting and see if it improves/ruins his performances.

[Thyra13]

I'd like Walcott to push the defense back by constantly being a threat to break behind the back line ie be a target for a through ball.

Basically use his pace off ball to get behind the line in the final third and play a cross or make his run diagonally and be a goal threat if the defense is stretched too horizontally and leaves gaps. Classic attack duty, but all too often he gets the ball at mid field and runs wide and drives to the byline. I can't see to get him to stop playing a cross off two defenders

[JD nawrat]

If you want Walcott high up the pitch as much as possible, consider placing him in an 'STR' role (one step further than he is in your current screenshot), where he still functions as a winger. He'll do nothing defensively but he'll be a very potent threat going forwards. It may lead to huge gaps between your RB and RW though so it's best to experiment and see how you like it. Walcott could spend a lot of time isolated up top on his own, not really getting involved in attacking build-up and leading to him being kept out of the game too easily. You could try him as an IF/A there as well if you like, but due to him being right footed it might not work great, he might also cut in too often meaning he won't cross enough for your liking.

Passing into space will also get the best out of Walcott in this regard, allowing Ozil to spray passes out onto the right flank for Walcott to race on to. Get Further Forward and Roam From Position as PIs may also help, although the latter could lead to him dropping too deep.

e: Although if you are finding Walcott runs to the byline too often, consider changing his role to an IF/A so that he looks to cut inside first instead. Alternatively you could tell him to cross more from deep, meaning he will be less likely to run for the byline as frequently as possible. One potential problem with this idea though is that he won't get to the byline enough, which you probably still want him to do.

Another important thing to consider with regards to crosses is this - when he's crosses "into two defenders", is there actually any crosses available for him or is he just missing out on decent cross attempts? I would have thought that a DLF/S and the rest as playmaker-like players (or in Wilshere's case a runner from deep) would lead to little in the way of central crossing options. I think you might generally see a huge improvement if Huntelaar is an option for him in the middle of the box at all times (or at least more frequently), hence the AF/A (or CF/A, whichever you took) may work out better.

[Thyra13]

When I say cross ofd two defenders I mean he hugs the touch line and races towards the by line, but doesn't ever beat the fullback, and very often either a holding mid or the center back offers the fullback support, so Walcott has two guys closing him down but he still drives to the byline and whips a cross off their bodies. Had he not kept driving towards the byline he could have played it in the middle or simply drop it back to my fullback who is unmarked.

With winger attack, I don't think the option is available to run with ball less often.

Maybe just sell Walcott and use a more versatile winger?

I just like his pace

[Thyra13]

and what do you think about staggering the central axis

both in the CM strata or would i get more defensive cover splitting them, or would it just cut my fluidity and leave gaps

[Wesley6]

4231narrow

GK(D)

FB(A) CB(D) CB(D) WB(S)

DLP(D) BBM(S)

AM(S) AP(S) T(A)

CF(A)

Control, Balanced - Team Instructions: Retain Possession, Work Ball into Box, Drop Deeper, Hassle Opponents, Higher Tempo, Exploit the Middle.

Usually play Wilshire or Ramsey in the BBM role then the middle three are made up of Ozil, Cazorla, Rosicky, Ox, Wilshire/Ramsey. I like to rotate them around the positions and swap throughout the game.

[JD nawrat]

and what do you think about staggering the central axis

both in the CM strata or would i get more defensive cover splitting them, or would it just cut my fluidity and leave gaps

I'm not a fan of staggered central partnerships, it doesn't feel right to me. At the same time, I don't even like the 4231 so it's best not to listen to me

As for Walcott, I'm sure you can get him to work out wide at some point, just going to take a bit of tweaking to get him performing at his best.

[Thyra13]

4231narrow

GK(D)

FB(A) CB(D) CB(D) WB(S)

DLP(D) BBM(S)

AM(S) AP(S) T(A)

CF(A)

Control, Balanced - Team Instructions: Retain Possession, Work Ball into Box, Drop Deeper, Hassle Opponents, Higher Tempo, Exploit the Middle.

Usually play Wilshire or Ramsey in the BBM role then the middle three are made up of Ozil, Cazorla, Rosicky, Ox, Wilshire/Ramsey. I like to rotate them around the positions and swap throughout the game.

Wouldn't a tree on the end of the attacking 3 leave very little cover on your flank? You don't see yourself getting exposed vs. Better teams and aggressive fullbacks?

[Thyra13]

I'm thinking of trying a swap.

Go aml - AMC - amcr

Where I can use ox, Santi, dinho or Walcott as an inside forward. Have coentrao overlap and be more conservative on the other end with Wilshire and my rb on support duties

[JD nawrat]

Probably a more balanced way of playing, yes. Would also be more likely to get something out of Walcott, although personally I would use Walcott up top on his own racing onto through balls from the wide men and Ozil... probably as a Poacher or AF/A.

[Thyra13]

gotten much more balance and control in the midfield (regardless of opposition).

kept the winger as a winger support with get further forward and use ox, cazorla, ronaldino there.

ozil is a trq

wilshere is AM(a) to the left of ozil and kept the central mids as you suggested DLP(d) and CM(d).

a lot of my goals come from the CF dropping into space and either the winger or ozil making a run behind. im going to try wilshere in SS(a) as i dont see a lot of penetrating runs, just passing around the box, barcelona

style, but not the good barcelona, the boring and frustrating barcelona that draws 1-1 with 900 passes