How to recreate RB Salzburg?

[CGE97]

Okay, so "Wow!" That's my reaction to the first 35 minutes of Salzburg against Ajax in tonight's Europa League match. They have been fantastic so far. To those who are also watching tonight, or have watched them recently, how would you go about getting your team to play like them? Here is my thoughts, please add, or alter.

They don't seem to be too fussed about possession, fast and direct, so probably Attacking mentality. This creates the longer passing, higher tempo, higher defensive line.

Absolutely everyone defends, attackers constantly closing down defenders- Fluid or V. Fluid.

"Play Narrower" and "Exploit Middle" since they always look to work it into the central players instead of crossing the ball.

Their pressing game has been fantastic, surely the "Hassle Opponents" shout would be used.

They are aggressive in defence, constantly sliding in to tackles' "Get Stuck In"

What else do you think?

[georginho_juventusygr]

I'm not playing FM, but those things seem right: fast and direct. But I think they keep the shape although they defend together. Their full backs don't often go forward.

[CGE97]

I'm not playing FM, but those things seem right: fast and direct. But I think they keep the shape although they defend together. Their full backs don't often go forward.

About the shape and full backs- I agree, so would a more rigid mentality be better. Also lots of fancy flicks, tricks and risky one-twos so maybe use "More Expressive" shout?

Thanks for your help.

[Torskus77]

Sounds more like Fluid if they defend as a team (and attack as one) just need some tweaks to the full backs Player instructions.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Like I said, I have no idea about this mentality thing or this shout thing. I did get to know a bit of it during the FML development years. But that was the last time I touched FM.

I would suggest watching more about them. Posting in the Austrian data issues thread might also help to get help from Austrians. The reason is that while they are winning by three goals, if you see it, one is from the spot, one is from a through ball from the center (both are from the center; so, they indeed don't use wingers), and one is from a shot from the center circle. The usual build-up play is still a question mark.

Perhaps, you can watch them in the second leg.

[CGE97]

Sounds more like Fluid if they defend as a team (and attack as one) just need some tweaks to the full backs Player instructions.

Right, cheers!

[CGE97]

Like I said, I have no idea about this mentality thing or this shout thing. I did get to know a bit of it during the FML development years. But that was the last time I touched FM.

I would suggest watching more about them. Posting in the Austrian data issues thread might also help to get help from Austrians. The reason is that while they are winning by three goals, if you see it, one is from the spot, one is from a through ball from the center (both are from the center; so, they indeed don't use wingers), and one is from a shot from the center circle. The usual build-up play is still a question mark.

Perhaps, you can watch them in the second leg.

Okay, thanks. Good suggestion about the Austrian section. I've set a reminder on my phone to watch the second leg! Hope it's as good as tonight's game.

[Torskus77]

Right, cheers!

It could actually be very fluid from your description, but I haven't actually seen them play, so can't say for sure. Very Fluid, attacking, high tempo would be a very interesting tactic indeed I think !

[Ohanzee]

Maybe this site would interest you : http://culturatactica.com/tarea-transiciones-red-bull-salzburg-de-roger-schmidt/?lang=en . If you can make anything out of the language. The little part that is in English didn't make much sense to me.

I didn't see the 1st half, but in the 2nd half I'd say they were just keeping their shape at all times while playing extremely high in the pitch in a 424 formation (wingers positioned extremely high). Every player making sure there is no passing option in his little box on the field. I wouldn't say they play a high pressure game though, just keeping their shape high up the pitch. Giving Ajax no short passing options at all. I have a feeling a team like Real Madrid would absolutely crush this side though. With Alonso picking out Ronaldo and Bale with long passes. Ajax just don't have a plan B at all it seems.

[CGE97]

Maybe this site would interest you : http://culturatactica.com/tarea-transiciones-red-bull-salzburg-de-roger-schmidt/?lang=en . If you can make anything out of the language. The little part that is in English didn't make much sense to me.

I didn't see the 1st half, but in the 2nd half I'd say they were just keeping their shape at all times while playing extremely high in the pitch in a 424 formation (wingers positioned extremely high). Every player making sure there is no passing option in his little box on the field. I wouldn't say they play a high pressure game though, just keeping their shape high up the pitch. Giving Ajax no short passing options at all. I have a feeling a team like Real Madrid would absolutely crush this side though. With Alonso picking out Ronaldo and Bale with long passes. Ajax just don't have a plan B at all it seems.

You're right about the high wingers, I seen that was the case for the whole game.

And yes, I think any team who is willing to play long ball could easily destroy them on the counter.

About the pressing I think they were very aggressive until they went 3-0 up, then they seemed to drop back a little and focus on preventing Ajax from having to much space. Did you see Liverpool vs Everton? Or against Arsenal (5-1)? Salzburg were a little like that- go out all guns blazing for the first half hour, get a good lead, then focus on simply keeping that score, not over committing or leaving too much space.

[Ohanzee]

I see. I did see those Liverpool matches yes. And it wasn't a lot like Salzburg 2nd half, so I guess they did drop off after 3-0 like you say. Which is natural to do anyways. I think it's something you might have to do in FM as well. Playing super high pressing for a whole match seems almost impossible in FM in my experience. Unless you have a team filled with Gods. ^^ What's nice in this version of FM is that if you play players in the FR/FL (right and left of the Striker position) these count as AML/AMR. So you can actually play wingers in a 424 atm. It's actually quite effective as well, until you meet a team that completely counter it hehe.

I honestly have no idea how to recreate this in FM though. The rigid vs fluid thing is just confusing to me in game. Rigid says the team keeps it's shape at all times, which is what Salzburg did (at least in the 2nd half), but at the same time the fluid part of everyone being expected to contribute in all aspects of play seems right as well. I wish there was still "wibble" and "wobble" in FM instead of what it is now, but that's never gonna happen.

[CGE97]

I see. I did see those Liverpool matches yes. And it wasn't a lot like Salzburg 2nd half, so I guess they did drop off after 3-0 like you say. Which is natural to do anyways. I think it's something you might have to do in FM as well. Playing super high pressing for a whole match seems almost impossible in FM in my experience. Unless you have a team filled with Gods. ^^ What's nice in this version of FM is that if you play players in the FR/FL (right and left of the Striker position) these count as AML/AMR. So you can actually play wingers in a 424 atm. It's actually quite effective as well, until you meet a team that completely counter it hehe.

I honestly have no idea how to recreate this in FM though. The rigid vs fluid thing is just confusing to me in game. Rigid says the team keeps it's shape at all times, which is what Salzburg did (at least in the 2nd half), but at the same time the fluid part of everyone being expected to contribute in all aspects of play seems right as well. I wish there was still "wibble" and "wobble" in FM instead of what it is now, but that's never gonna happen.

I'll try the high up wingers, never knew about that, can they still be inside forwards? Salzburg didn't seem to do much out wide? Or will I just go for wingers but get them to cut inside?

What about the cms, any ideas? I didn't really pay much attention to what they were doing.

I've not got a clue about the mentalities either, always gets me stuck. I'll just play around and see what works, maybe fluid but with "Stick to Positions" shout.

Thank you very much, great help

[CGE97]

Imo, much of the game they played (in FM terms) a 4-2-4 with two DF's centrally and two DW's out wide. You could do it that way with roles. The other way might be through specific man marking and PI's.

When Ajax did ever get out of their own half however, it became more of a 4-4-2 (4-4-1-1) at times, so you might also consider the above options but moving the wingers back to 4-4-2 and playing them as DW's from there.

Yes to 'hassle opponents', and also probably 'get stuck in'. I don't think it's as dramatic as you might think though. Ajax's work rate was pathetic. Any player on the ball was left in isolation and playing long passes. There was very little movement off the ball which made it seem like Salzburg were pressing more than they actually were. While they definitely closed down fast, most of the time from the midfield back they just maintained their shape and De Boer's poor tactical approach did the rest.

I've never done DFs or DWs, do they still do attacking as normal? With 4 players on support duty I'd not know what to expect in terms of attacking play, getting goals.

I think you're right about Ajax's work rate giving RBS a huge help.

Thanks

[Bigshow1]

CF roles with support will still score plenty of goals. If you want to make sure and keep the wingers on attack duties, then specifically man mark the opposition fullbacks with your wingers.

How do you specific man mark the full backs on FM14? Used to be a quick easy way on FM13 on the same tab as target opposition player but it's gone now

[JOSEPH!]

How do you specific man mark the full backs on FM14? Used to be a quick easy way on FM13 on the same tab as target opposition player but it's gone now

On player instructions you have the choice to select 'mark specific player'. It is on the right hand side of the pop up box.

[RonnySanchez]

I watched Salzburg a couple of times in the group stage since they played against a Swedish team and i think that tactic they use i pretty simple 4-2-4, very rigid the four upfront are 3 on attack and one on support, the rest of the team sits deep and never comes in attacks except on set pieces, they play direct and fast

the best thing to make this work on FM is probably to make 4-6-0 tactic with two players in AMC and on two on the wings and the defensive midfielders in DMC, probably DLPs, as they seem to put a lot of thru balls

if you watch the ajax games you see perfectly how the team "splits" when they have the ball, when they defend they look as a whole unit but when they take the ball the four attacking players separates from the "team body" and they run in line, without roaming, just straight forwards runs

[CGE97]

I watched Salzburg a couple of times in the group stage since they played against a Swedish team and i think that tactic they use i pretty simple 4-2-4, very rigid the four upfront are 3 on attack and one on support, the rest of the team sits deep and never comes in attacks except on set pieces, they play direct and fast

the best thing to make this work on FM is probably to make 4-6-0 tactic with two players in AMC and on two on the wings and the defensive midfielders in DMC, probably DLPs, as they seem to put a lot of thru balls

if you watch the ajax games you see perfectly how the team "splits" when they have the ball, when they defend they look as a whole unit but when they take the ball the four attacking players separates from the "team body" and they run in line, without roaming, just straight forwards runs

Awesome, great help. I'll implement this soon, I've got some pretty good amc and dm regens perfect for the formation.