I might have created my first working tactic, anyone want to test and comment?

[MTM1977]

After hours of tweaking and testing, i think i might have got my first tactic that actually works.

It is the same formation i tried to get to work over and over again on the earlier thread, but couldn't quite get it finished.

This is what i am talking about:

I have only tested it on quite low level (Norwegian 1st division) so far, but it seems to work pretty well now.

If anyone cares to give a try and give some feedback, you can download it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/h3m33g5p4j1l7tv/Attack_v_1.2.tac

I have gotten some of the ideas from other tactics, but this one is my own creation.

I can't say much about player types yet as in this level the players aren't that good to begin with.

I will try to lay out some guidelines however.

Goalkeeper is a Sweeper Keeper, so he should be faster than your regular keeper. Anticipation and concentration probably help too.

Central Defenders = Both should have the basic CD qualities, the stopper will benefit from bravery and tackling and the Cover defender from concentration, acceleration and pace.

CWB's = Should be fast, good crossers and passers. Finishing capabilities won't hurt either.

DM's = Your basic DM will probably do fine. Heading and passing skills surely will help.

CM(A) = Passing, dribbling and finishing will help.

SS's = Pretty much same as CM(A). CM and SS's will build up and finish attacks together.

DLF = Dribbling, passing, finishing are a bonus. Player with good attributes for standard DLF role should work.

Team talks

I am usually quite demanding, but other approaches might work as well. Just get the players to the field motivated and with good morale.

OI's

I don't use them and don't recommend to use as they will conflict with player instructions built to the tactic.

edit:

Tactic probably won't work in FMC due to the importance of player instructions.

[jase19]

I use OI's quite often. Also, I don't see anyone set to a defensive role. How's it faring for you? Care to share some results?

[borobadger]

I'll give it a go now, couldn't make my team any worse!

[Bushy88]

Ok, thought I would give this a go as I am half way through my Madrid save and i am second in the league with no chance of catching Barca.

First full game that I used it with I lost 5-3. I went two nil up.

The opp goals….

1) My keeper trying to play an elaborate pass that the striker intercepted and lobbed back over him from 30 yards.

2) A through ball from their cm where my right centre back was sitting in midfield.

3) There he is again that right centre back drifting out. Ball gets played to the left leaving the rb with two players, small through ball and goal.

4) Back we go to the keeper! Another horrible pass = another goal. This time easy enough to be just slotted into the goal.

5) The only good goal they scored… 25 yarder…

So I changed the keeper to no longer distributing to defenders and took the stopper off the cd and just made him to defend.

Won 4-0

Next game

Lost 3-2 the goals - one from a through ball between rb and rcb . the next two were both horrific set pieces.

[sporadicsmiles]

If I came up against this tactic against the AI, I would be killing it down those flanks - overlap my FBs with my AMR/L to draw out either the central defenders or DMCs, and have runners from midfield. It would be even more effective if I sat back, packed the midfield and countered quickly down the flanks. I am curious how you fair against AI sides who try to similar things.

[llama3]

Getting people to test your tactic is not quite the point of the forums - it should be to show something you have found, or seek advice for your issues - not recruiting. Hopefully we can have some analysis and discussion over what people are finding though?

[MTM1977]

Getting people to test your tactic is not quite the point of the forums - it should be to show something you have found, or seek advice for your issues - not recruiting. Hopefully we can have some analysis and discussion over what people are finding though?

I see your point and it wasn't my intention to recruit anyone, just wanted to have feedback about what works and what doesn't.

Like i stated in the opening post, i am playing a quite low division, so my results probably don't tell the whole thruth.

For example, the most amount of goals i have conceded so far is 2. And that has happened only once, i have not lost any matches with this tactic.

I thought that on higher levels defense issues might arise and it seems that is the case.

Now the next thing is to figure out whether something else needs to be done than just changing the Stopper to Defend? Any ideas regarding that?

One thing might be changing the second DM in to Defend duty, shouldn't hurt attacking much? Or maybe DLP(D)?

I don't want to change the DL/DR roles unless i really need to, because they participate a lot in the attack building and with their close down more PI they seem to make decent enough job to defending the flanks. Although, like said earlier, i am playing in "not one of the top leagues", so might be different strory with more cabable wingers?

[Soldatino]

On first look I would suggest adjusting the roles a bit. Personally I'm not a big fan of two roles alike in the DM and AM strata, personally I would consider something like DLP/D - DM/S and SS/A - AM/S or AP/S.

Also as pointed out already, I would change the defenders roles to defend, I think the cover / stopper could create some troubles along with the offside trap?

[MTM1977]

I will try to take some of the advice in to use and see how it goes. I will post later when i have made adjustments and played some matches.

[MTM1977]

Ok, i have done some changes based on the feedback.

Roles and instructions now look like this:

Player instructions haven changed much, some adjustments due to the different roles.

I also did significant changes to set pieces (was conceding lot from corners and not taking advantage on own set pieces). Don't know yet whether they got better or worse though (not enough matches played).

I would like to think that defending is more solid now, attacking also seems to work, but can't be sure about either just yet.

I would again be really grateful if someone gave it a try to see what i am missing this time

If someone wants to try it and help, it's here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/799cc7s5ga1o7og/Attack_v_1.4.tac

[MTM1977]

Still needs a lot of work.

Way too inconsistent, on some matches we totally dominate and win by a landslide, but then in the next game we might struggle to get any decent chances and lose or draw.

I think i need to start a new game just for testing purposes, this journeyman save is way too slow for tactics testing (loads of leagues/countries = slow progress).

[Soldatino]

An idea I would try in this tactics would be FB or WB on support instead of CWB + looking for overlap as team instruction. Recently I used it and it seemed to give better stability in defense (might be just a feeling).

[MTM1977]

An idea I would try in this tactics would be FB or WB on support instead of CWB + looking for overlap as team instruction. Recently I used it and it seemed to give better stability in defense (might be just a feeling).

I will give it a go and maybe revise some of the player instructions in the process.

One thing i am thinking also that maybe some other fluidity than "fluid" would suit better?

[MTM1977]

Lately i have mainly used tactics made by others, but i have worked on my own "on the side".

I have again two tactics, one for favorite use and one for underdog use.

I won't post any links this time as i am not sure they are ready to be tested yet.

I would however want to have comments about the roles and duties, does someone more experienced notice something drastically wrong?

The "favorite tactic":

And the undedog tacic:

Team instructions are all visible, even though the underdog tactic has that scroll bar there.

There are also specific player instructions in both tactics (mainly related to passing, marking, closing down), but i won't go in to too much detail at this point. Need to first make sure that the foundation is somewhat solid

So, any ideas or comments?

edit:

Based on few first friendlies, i added Shorter Passing TI to the "Attacking" tactic (it's really not an attacking tactic, but it's the more aggressive of these two).

[llama3]

Only major niggling thing is the "drop deeper" & "hassle opponents" shouts - causing you to give up your good defensive shape close to goal

[MTM1977]

Only major niggling thing is the "drop deeper" & "hassle opponents" shouts - causing you to give up your good defensive shape close to goal

I know, but so far it has been the only way i have managed to get the players to win the ball back when defending.

It seems that if i try to create a tactic without "hassle" shout, the opposition players always have too much time and space and they can build their attacking play too freely.

Luckily "hassle + drop deeper" actually doesn't seem to backfire that often, of course it sometime leaves opponent unmarked, but then again, so does any other defensive strategy too...

I have tried to not use hassle and add individual close down more orders to midfielders and attackers, but that just doesn't seem to be as effective... tricky to get it right.

edit:

I will try if it works without Drop Deeper. That should make hassle opponents a bit safer.

[MTM1977]

Ok, i removed the "Drop deeper" from the cautious tactic and also made a few tweaks to player instructions.

I know that pre-season friendly matches don't count for much, but they should give some indication whether the tactic has any potential. At least i hope so...

My team is União Madeira, our wage total is 68 000€ and we are predicted to finish 10th in Portuguese Premiership.

Friendly match against AC Milan was such a big deal that it was actually picked for live television coverage (first time in my saves that friendly match has been picked for TV).

As you know, AC Milan has players who earn more per week than our whole squad combined, so we were of course expected to lose heavily.

I played with my "cautious tactic" using the small tweaks i did this morning. This is how it went:

Like said, friendly matches don't tell the whole truth, but this match went really well for our team.

[llama3]

Still, a good start to base your approach on.

[MTM1977]

Still, a good start to base your approach on.

True, i now have three different tactics based on the same principles.

In addition to the "Cautious" i have "Attacking". It's pretty much the same i mentioned yesterday, but it now has attacking mentality + a few other changes. I noticed that the earlier version wasn't different enough from the cautious one, so it would have served no purpose.

Then i have "more attacking" tactic for the situations when you really need to score. It sacrifices the HB and adds an Advanced Forward. TI's also slightly different again.

That one i don't intend to use as a starting tactic, but it is a "last resort" kind of option.

[llama3]

Sensible approach to be able to adjust your team according to demand. A single approach never quite does it in my opinion.

[MTM1977]

Sensible approach to be able to adjust your team according to demand. A single approach never quite does it in my opinion.

I completely agree.

I think that a tactic which works well against stronger opponents, probably isn't that good against weaker sides and vice versa. Need to have something for both situation + something to throw in if all else fails.

That's what i am trying to do with these, but too early to say if they actually work as intended.

We just played our first league match this season. Played at home against a newly promoted team, so i went with attacking tactic. We won 2-0 and limited them to just one shot on goal. That one was from a freekick. So, we managed to avoid counter attacks, i was afraid of those with the attacking tactic, but at least this time they were nonexistent.

Next match is a real challenge. As we finished 5th last season, we qualified to EURO cup. We will be playing against Granada. It is not the toughest possible opponent, but it is surely much better team than we have. Need to go with the underdog tactic at home and hope to get a good result. Same approach for away match i think...

[MTM1977]

Well, the Granada match had the worst possible start.

Just 56 seconds played, they got a corner and during the scramble our player fouled and they were awarded a penalty. So, we were one down right at the beginning.

We managed to equalize just 5 minutes later, but soon they scored again.

After 45mins they were leading 1-2.

I decided to go with the attacking tactic for the second half. They immediately scored, 1-3. I thought that the game was over, but it wasn't. We managed to get first to 2-3, then to 3-3. At this point i thought about switching back to "cautious tactic", but i didn't... Probably should have as they managed to score one more.

Match stats:

We could have and should have won, but they were much more efficient in finishing than we were. Probably due to my players being a bit nervous.

We still have a slight chance to pull an upset at Granada, but i wouldn't put any money in it

[llama3]

Only a 1 goal deficit. A good time to look at why you conceded the goals, and adapt your approach.

[MTM1977]

Only a 1 goal deficit. A good time to look at why you conceded the goals, and adapt your approach.

Well, 3 of the goals were such that i really don't know how to prevent

1. Penalty

2. Shot from poor angle, bounced in to net from my keepers hands. This might be due to him being new to the squad and they always play poorly the first few matches.

3. Cross from byline, my defender slid in to it and even though it wasn't marked as own goal, i think it was.

The fourth goal was a bit different. As i was using the attacking tactic at that point, my FB's were on attacking duty. My LB lost the ball at opponents end when attempting to cross. They countered quickly and managed to pass between CB's and get through on goal.

All in all, i think we played rather well. In addition to the new GK i also had 4 other newcomers on the field, so that might be part of the problem.

[llama3]

1 - a player caught out of position trying to make a desperate tackle? If so, that's preventable.

2 - crap goalkeeper

3 - perhaps composure, concentration & decisions in your side are poor and need some looking at?

[MTM1977]

1 - a player caught out of position trying to make a desperate tackle? If so, that's preventable.

2 - crap goalkeeper

3 - perhaps composure, concentration & decisions in your side are poor and need some looking at?

The penalty was one of those which happen from time to time. They got a corner and during the after corner hassle they were awarded a penalty.

After match it was stated as "controversial penalty" so probably just poor job by the refs.

I now lost 2-0 away against Sporting. We usually lose to them, but this one was frustrating. Again we had more possession, more shots on goal, but poor finishing.

I have noticed that my attacking tactic is vulnerable to those crosses from byline, again conceded from one of those. I know it's due to FB's being on Attack duty. I might need to put them to support... or do you have other suggestions?

[llama3]

could use OI's, or sit fundamentally deeper and more compact. Getting out aggressively away to Sporting seems like a bit of a crazy idea - going and attacking a bigger side, away.

[MTM1977]

could use OI's, or sit fundamentally deeper and more compact. Getting out aggressively away to Sporting seems like a bit of a crazy idea - going and attacking a bigger side, away.

I didn't go attacking

I started with the cautious tactic. We were losing 1-0 at 75 minutes, so i changed to attacking in attempt to get a goal.

That's when they scored the cross from byline goal.

[llama3]

I see - or alternatively just manage Barcelona and batter Sporting!

[MTM1977]

I see - or alternatively just manage Barcelona and batter Sporting!

Would probably make the game easier, but just not my thing

I prefer to start unemployed and see where it takes me. This time it was União Madeira, probably not the easiest task. For example our stadium only has 3300 capacity and the club doesn't even own it

[Cheesey1975]

are these tactics available to try??

[MTM1977]

are these tactics available to try??

They are still WIP, so i haven't uploaded them.

I might do that if they work in the long run. Currently i am still making small tweaks based on what doesn't work.

[Cheesey1975]

They are still WIP, so i haven't uploaded them.

I might do that if they work in the long run. Currently i am still making small tweaks based on what doesn't work.

no dramas looking forward to seeing if they do :-)

[yhakaede]

Lately i have mainly used tactics made by others, but i have worked on my own "on the side".

I have again two tactics, one for favorite use and one for underdog use.

I won't post any links this time as i am not sure they are ready to be tested yet.

I would however want to have comments about the roles and duties, does someone more experienced notice something drastically wrong?

The "favorite tactic":

And the undedog tacic:

Team instructions are all visible, even though the underdog tactic has that scroll bar there.

There are also specific player instructions in both tactics (mainly related to passing, marking, closing down), but i won't go in to too much detail at this point. Need to first make sure that the foundation is somewhat solid

So, any ideas or comments?

edit:

Based on few first friendlies, i added Shorter Passing TI to the "Attacking" tactic (it's really not an attacking tactic, but it's the more aggressive of these two).

Using a similar tactics, I won the ECL with Southampton in 14.2.2 in the second year. I used a CF(A) with F9 instead but I think it all depends on the cards you have. If you got a good AMC, it seems a SS is better. Also, I prefer push higher up if you chose to hassile the oppoment. With Drop deeper, it means your defenders will need to run a long way to close down the oppoment, which may ends up spaces for through ball. I personally would recommend CWB on both sides if u chose a HB instead of Anchor Man as well(Well I got pretty good CWB Shaw and Clyne). However its totally up to you. Im looking forward to see if it works in 14.3 too, keep it up dude!

[MTM1977]

Using a similar tactics, I won the ECL with Southampton in 14.2.2 in the second year. I used a CF(A) with F9 instead but I think it all depends on the cards you have. If you got a good AMC, it seems a SS is better. Also, I prefer push higher up if you chose to hassile the oppoment. With Drop deeper, it means your defenders will need to run a long way to close down the oppoment, which may ends up spaces for through ball. I personally would recommend CWB on both sides if u chose a HB instead of Anchor Man as well(Well I got pretty good CWB Shaw and Clyne). However its totally up to you. Im looking forward to see if it works in 14.3 too, keep it up dude!

Thanks for your comments! I have actually thought about the CWB's and also push higher up. So will probably try at least those when i next work on these tactics. They are on hold for a while, after i get enough new ideas, i will put them to use and see what i come up with.

So, any ideas for improvements are more than welcome, but i will of course try to figure out something myself also

edit: After next week i will have one week off from work. Then i will probably make a serious push to get these right.