Steaton's 'Invincible' 4-2-3-1 - Consistency - Balanced - 14.3.0 - Plug and Play

[Jimmyrh94]

Has anyone tried Marcelo's tweak and added the aforementioned defensive tweaks with the centre backs?

Quite inclined to try that out myself now.

[axehan1]

If you didn't bring many new players, around halfway in the second season.

Any chance you could upload your tactic for fm13 you mentioned earlier please?

[Marcelo]

Any chance you could upload your tactic for fm13 you mentioned earlier please?

I uploaded it on FM-Base, here is the link: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2013-tactics-training/160917-marcelo-3-1-4-2-a.html

[Tertziniu]

Has anyone tried Marcelo's tweak and added the aforementioned defensive tweaks with the centre backs?

Quite inclined to try that out myself now.

i'm using with Inter unbeaten at half season with only 8 goals conceded and 58 scored

[Guest]

Marcelo - Using this tactic, what is your preference with the IF's and their preferred foot? Does it matter?

[MikH]

Any intel on how this (might) work on 14.1?

Have used it fairly succesfully in another save on 14.3, but i have an (old) multiplayer game with a friend where it is on 14.1, and my team is playing fairly badly for the moment, so i considered switching to it

[saltshaker]

Hi Jaskiew, no, I'm Brazilian and a São Paulo FC fan.

I made some defensive changes, as described in an earlier post, but overall my tweak is even more attacking than the original, that's how I like to play.

Corners have been changed as well, I rarely concede from it, and also score a few.

Hi Marcelo,

How do you set the opp instructions for this tweaked tactic?

won few games without conceding, and suddenly defeated by Chelsea 4-2 and swansea 4-1, all the goals made were like my def just stand still there and do nothing to prevent the opponent to scores

Thanks.

[Marcelo]

Marcelo - Using this tactic, what is your preference with the IF's and their preferred foot? Does it matter?

My preference is one with same prefered foot as the side, and the other inverted, but I don't think it matters much. However it would be a good thing if they are at least competent with both feet.

Hi Marcelo,

How do you set the opp instructions for this tweaked tactic?

won few games without conceding, and suddenly defeated by Chelsea 4-2 and swansea 4-1, all the goals made were like my def just stand still there and do nothing to prevent the opponent to scores

Thanks.

I don't use OIs, and I don't think it would have made much of a difference in these defeats. Sometimes the opponent just is in a good day and you are on a bad one. It's probably more related to things like motivation/complacency.

[Steaton]

Hi All,

Been a while since I last got back to you the reason was because then new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it, and they may well not have all the details of the change, this is just how complex develpoment is sometimes.

Anyway as a result the way Invincible played has changed somewhat the way goals are created the way it defends - quite a lot of stuff to be honest.

Invincible is still good but has lost the magic edge it could have before (in 14.3.0) I think I have a vastly superior tactic that is specifically for 14.3.1 - Would like some testers to get in touch on Steam if interested. (Steaton)

Later Boys and Girls..

[Bobbins71]

Hi Steaton

First of all congratulations on this tactic. It is one of the best constructed (and methodically tested) ones I've come across.

The 14.3.1 update may have changed things (I'm not sure myself if that is true - you could be seeing perception bias) but it is still highly effective IMO.

I've tried this for 4 seasons now and had impressive results.

Falkirk in the Scottish championship - won the league and cup, predicted 7th, scored over 100 goals. Bought nobody.

Walsall in League 2 - promoted champions, scored 100 goals, predicted 8th.

Walsall in League 1 - promoted champions, scored 111 goals, predicted 10th.

Walsall in Championship - promoted champions, scored 108 goals, predicted 20th.

All using the original tactic. My team are awful as well. I have 6 or so first team players who are Championship or better quality. Walsall just don't have enough money to pay salaries (this should change now I'm in the Premiership). I never actually paid a fee for a player in three seasons either. Just picked up free transfers.

Because the team is so poor, I do tend to concede a lot of goals. This is the "problem" with this tactic for some people. I found that when the team went a goal or two up I would switch to a defensive setup and kill off the game.

Defensive, lower tempo, waste time, play narrower. It usually restricts the other team when they start throwing the kitchen sink at me. I'd never change the players positions or roles and duties. I'd also score quite a few as gaps would open up as they pushed forward. If I had better players I'd probably not need to do this, but as the players suck at the level they are at then they are very vulnerable to conceding.

Premiership could be interesting. A tactic can only get you so far, you still need the players for it to work.

On the whole though - well done Steaton, and thank you for sharing.

[Jaskiew]

Hi All,

Been a while since I last got back to you the reason was because then new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it, and they may well not have all the details of the change, this is just how complex develpoment is sometimes.

Anyway as a result the way Invincible played has changed somewhat the way goals are created the way it defends - quite a lot of stuff to be honest.

Invincible is still good but has lost the magic edge it could have before (in 14.3.0) I think I have a vastly superior tactic that is specifically for 14.3.1 - Would like some testers to get in touch on Steam if interested. (Steaton)

Later Boys and Girls..

There's like 4 Steaton. I hope I add the right one.

[tripoligate4]

i wanna test it , post it here also

[Tertziniu]

I won all competitions and get most goals in all competitions top scorers and everything you can achieve...brilliant(48 goals in UCL top scorers 20 goals, Seria A 125 goals top scorer 29)

[sheeshy]

Hi All,

Been a while since I last got back to you the reason was because then new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it, and they may well not have all the details of the change, this is just how complex develpoment is sometimes.

Anyway as a result the way Invincible played has changed somewhat the way goals are created the way it defends - quite a lot of stuff to be honest.

Invincible is still good but has lost the magic edge it could have before (in 14.3.0) I think I have a vastly superior tactic that is specifically for 14.3.1 - Would like some testers to get in touch on Steam if interested. (Steaton)

Later Boys and Girls..

I'd like to test. Have added you on Steam.

[mecromeniac]

I love to test it to have added u M8 on Steam (kfnielsen)

Using the latest with spurs with great succes

cheers

[Ampburner]

Added you youth, got a slightly unsavory steam name (you'll know which one I am). Would love to try the new one out, my most successful saves have been with this tactic.

[jacky33]

Hi All,

Been a while since I last got back to you the reason was because then new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it, and they may well not have all the details of the change, this is just how complex develpoment is sometimes.

Anyway as a result the way Invincible played has changed somewhat the way goals are created the way it defends - quite a lot of stuff to be honest.

Invincible is still good but has lost the magic edge it could have before (in 14.3.0) I think I have a vastly superior tactic that is specifically for 14.3.1 - Would like some testers to get in touch on Steam if interested. (Steaton)

Later Boys and Girls..

Have a new version of your tactic for the 14.3.1?

[Guest]

Have a new version of your tactic for the 14.3.1?

He is currently working on one, and have people testing now.

Please be patient and I am sure we'll see one go live soon.

[jacky33]

He is currently working on one, and have people testing now.

Please be patient and I am sure we'll see one go live soon.

Thanks.

with marcelo tweaked, and I have a red car after 2 minutes of the games !

[Azza2306]

Hey Steaton, Have used your tactic with great success until update. Very keen to test out your new tactic. Have sent you a request on steam as Flipper2310.

[CBP87]

hey Steaton, great tactic, ive tweaked a few things with the defence and ive conceded only 1 goal in 6 games, i was conceding quite a lot of goals, but still managing to outscore the opposition. i know its not the sort of testing you want, but im seeing a huge difference in my defence already.

I changed the 2 complete wing backs to just wing backs and set them to automatic, the left centre back i changed to defend rather than cover, and the goalkeeper i changed from sweeper keeper to goalkeeper, just little tweaks but it seems to have done the job.

[annamag]

I want to download this tactic with Marcelos tweaks to corners and defence. Where can I download this updated version?? Please help

[RedBlueEagle]

I want to download this tactic with Marcelos tweaks to corners and defence. Where can I download this updated version?? Please help

Try post 381. It's the only version Marcelo has uploaded.

[annamag]

Try post 381. It's the only version Marcelo has uploaded.

No tactic in post 381

[Marcelo]

I want to download this tactic with Marcelos tweaks to corners and defence. Where can I download this updated version?? Please help

Post #328.

[kefalo84]

When will we get the new tactic?

[furq]

Credit to Marcelo , I've been messing around with Steaton's tactic and doing alright, but after losing the 2018-19 EPL title on the final day to Chelsea on goal difference, I thought I'd check this thread out again.

I've played 7 games so far (not including friendlies, all of which I won) and won them all, without conceding, including a 7-0 win over Chelsea. The only change I've made is one I found was working for me, and that's having the Advanced Playmaker hold up the ball.

Great work Marcelo. (Not forgetting Steaton)

[makman]

Hi can you tell me if this tac works on the 14.3.1?

[StretfordEnd]

yes it does

[Dazbo101]

Best strikers for this tactic anyone??

[Guest]

Since this tactic uses a "Poacher" for the striker position, and the game has a built-in "best attributes" to focus on for this specific player role,

it should speak for itself.

But other than that, I'd just use best judgment really.

- Acceleration, Agility, Off the ball, First Touch and Anticipation = to get those through balls and try to beat the offside trap.

- Finishing, Composure and Technique = to shoot at goal with deadly precision.

Any striker with at least 13/14+ in these attributes are a very capable striker indeed.

But these are just my points of view really.

Good luck.

[WayneRomney]

Since this tactic uses a "Poacher" for the striker position, and the game has a built-in "best attributes" to focus on for this specific player role,

it should speak for itself.

But other than that, I'd just use best judgment really.

- Acceleration, Agility, Off the ball, First Touch and Anticipation = to get those through balls and try to beat the offside trap.

- Finishing, Composure and Technique = to shoot at goal with deadly precision.

Any striker with at least 13/14+ in these attributes are a very capable striker indeed.

But these are just my points of view really.

Good luck.

This is all good advice, however with this tactic I've tried and succeeded with a lot of different types of strikes, ranging from Rooney, van Persie and Welbeck to Dybala, Gabbiadini et al. It's very flexible.

[foomanjee]

I've made some tweaks to this, based on Marcelo's version. Mostly CM based, keep them from going too far forward, so they can help recycle possession and keep passing options open.

Great results for me so far.

http://box.nevernet.com/~djr/djr_steaton.tac

[Jon MUFC]

I've started using Marcelo's tweak for my Sporting Lisbon save and we're playing some great stuff, scored about 3 every game....

Unfortunately we're also conceding 4 every game, and keep getting done on the counter attack or trying to play their men offside and failing.

I think for some games it might be better to use control or counter but I don't want to deviate from the downloaded tactic too much as people seem to be having great success with it. Anyone made any tweaks like this?

[foomanjee]

I've started using Marcelo's tweak for my Sporting Lisbon save and we're playing some great stuff, scored about 3 every game....

Unfortunately we're also conceding 4 every game, and keep getting done on the counter attack or trying to play their men offside and failing.

I think for some games it might be better to use control or counter but I don't want to deviate from the downloaded tactic too much as people seem to be having great success with it. Anyone made any tweaks like this?

That's exactly why I made my tweaks - to shore up the defense a bit. Give it a shot, it might work out for you.

[Jon MUFC]

That's exactly why I made my tweaks - to shore up the defense a bit. Give it a shot, it might work out for you.

Just downloaded, will give it a go in my next away game, cheers!

Can I ask who you're playing as and how well it's working for you?

[linuxe]

Conceded 7 against Everton, bye.

[Jon MUFC]

Yeah this definitely doesn't work away from home unless you're a top, top side does it

[foomanjee]

Just downloaded, will give it a go in my next away game, cheers!

Can I ask who you're playing as and how well it's working for you?

Manchester United. My brother is playing as Chelsea.

First season I used Marcelo's version of the tactic until it stopped working (away games killed morale), then I switched to the normal tactic. Won the league, and got to the Champions League Final.

Second season, struggled pretty badly for the first third of the season. Switched to Marcelo's tactic, enjoyed the attacking play, but got tired of giving up goals. That's when I made my changes. Went from 14th place and ended up in 4th. Chelsea won the league.

This season I'm about 18 games in, and have 1 loss and 3 draws so far.

So far, so good.

[Wyer]

Best tactic of the year for me.

Mr Houghs imo have been lacking something this year but this tactic is nothing short of 'world class'.

Big thumbs up - thank you.

[RTHerringbone]

Been a while since I last got back to you the reason was because then new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it, and they may well not have all the details of the change, this is just how complex develpoment is sometimes.

Just to be clear, this is not true.

I'm talking out of the mouth in my face here (more accurately, typing with the fingers on my hands), and there were zero Match Engine fixes in the last update.

Anyone who claims otherwise really is talking out their arse, and they are spreading false information.

[Wyer]

Just to be clear, this is not true.

I'm talking out of the mouth in my face here (more accurately, typing with the fingers on my hands), and there were zero Match Engine fixes in the last update.

Anyone who claims otherwise really is talking out their arse, and they are spreading false information.

The manner in which you have replied all tho making your point, is a clear reason why ppl dislike the mods on this forum.

[RTHerringbone]

The manner in which you have replied all tho making your point, is a clear reason why ppl dislike the mods on this forum.

The manner of reply mirrors the tone of the original post, and indeed uses a quote from it

If you take exception to the post, then please feel free to report it using the small exclamation mark icon in the bottom left of the post.

[foomanjee]

The manner of reply mirrors the tone of the original post, and indeed uses a quote from it

If you take exception to the post, then please feel free to report it using the small exclamation mark icon in the bottom left of the post.

The tone of the original post doesn't matter. You are a moderator, therefore held to a higher standard.

[RTHerringbone]

The tone of the original post doesn't matter. You are a moderator, therefore held to a higher standard.

If you are really bothered by it, then please report it.

The fact remains that the statement "new patch 14.3.1 did make a change to the match engine. Anyone who claims otherwise is talking out their arse, yes SI did not tell you they changed it" is utterly false, and implies that SI have attempted to mislead its customers.

Anyway, reverting back to the purpose of the thread, I'm sure Steaton would prefer to have more feedback about his tactics.

[Guest]

Sorry to crash the party here.

I have no knowledge about any changes being made to the match engine in patch 14.3.1, and I did read that they did not fix anything or make any changes, specifically to the match engine - officially.

But, without wanting to start an argument, or to flame up the one already present, something IS different in the match engine after 14.3.1.

I have no coding experience per se, but I can distinctly notice several player actions in games that did not happen prior to patch.

The tone of people could be different, but in all honestly, we're all entitled to our own opinions. Some might think changes have been made, others might not, and SI might say they did not, and for all I know, they did not change anything. But I have noticed some things post-patch.

And I would'nt say anything against your tone RTHerringbone, but I will point out one thing.

Quote RTHerringbone's post #441:

"and there were zero Match Engine fixes in the last update."

Is this something you know for a fact because you work in that department with SI? Because you make it sound like it.

[RTHerringbone]

Quote RTHerringbone's post #441:

"and there were zero Match Engine fixes in the last update."

Is this something you know for a fact because you work in that department with SI? Because you make it sound like it.

Yep. It is 100% a fact. The last update included a tweak to menus for the FM Vita Cross Save stuff, plus some competition rules changes and things like that.

Nothing that was changed overlapped with the ME at all.

There is no reason for me to lie about this. If my tone offended earlier on, then I apologise, but we can't have misinformation spread because it can potentially be quite destructive!

In Match Engine terms, the game is enormously dynamic. When there are no updates whatsoever, you can see fluctuations in form and these are always tactical or motivational in some form. It's very easy to "blame" an external factor if you can't redress the balance of downturns in form, but I assure you that there were no ME changes to prompt such a downturn in form. I cannot be clearer on this.

[Bobbins71]

Hi

I don't think there have been any changes personally. I've not seen anything different, but many, many others believe the ME has changed.

I do think that when 14.3.1 was released, the message from Neil Brock where he said....

"We’ve also included a few other fixes which include, but are not limited to the changelist posted below", will make people think other things such as the ME were changed.

Was there ever anything out of SI which explicitly said the ME wasn't changed?

[HUNT3R]

It's also very easy to check. The smallest change/tweak on the ME by SI results in a new ME version number. We're still on ME 1454, the same version we had for 14.3.0

Click on FM --> About Football Manager

[RTHerringbone]

Was there ever anything out of SI which explicitly said the ME wasn't changed?

A quote from PaulC in the main feedback thread confirmed that no further ME updates were planned prior to the final update, and I'm pretty sure that Tony Fallows reiterated this later in the thread (he's a senior SI guy involved with ME development and testing).

Neil's quote was pretty typical of the SI way of announcing updates, as they will have fixed numerous competition bugs and suchlike in the last build (there were issues with AI player recruitment behaviour prior to the last update, and they didn't explicitly mention all areas and countries that had fixes applied).

However, when SI announce updates, they always state which areas have seen work - i.e. Match Engine, Interface, Media etc. etc. The last update made no mention of the Match Engine at all, and believe me, there were no updates to that section at all. Mods may not be perceived as knowing much sometimes, but on some (rare) occasions we do know what we're on about!

EDIT - HUNT3R makes a far more concise and pertinent point than me!