How important is a "formation" - A community tactical experiment?

[PeeKay]

thats the thing with moral, the way its going i cant see where the next win will come from, if you look at the fixtures its not like im playing inter, milan or juve its catania and sass that are battering me

changing am to support shouldnt really affect the attack seeing as goals are not exactly flying in anyway, might help to pinch a few draws and maybe raise the morale. ill give that a go cheers

Have you tried a team talk or assign player to be tutors? Give you a small boost to morale for a game, maybe enough to get you out of a losing steak.

(Disclaimer, these "tricks" can reduce morale as well as improve)

[goat101010]

the team talks always go well which is the weird thing

after changing the left winger to wm and the am to a supporting playmaker i picked up a 3-0 away win in europe, with any luck that should help in the league

ah right you meant the squad talk, no ive not done any of that

[dspeters]

(3-4-3)

Great, I get to try out 3 forwards AND 3 centre backs, and I never tried either one of them in my tactics. This could be a lot of fun...

It's quite an attacking formation, with a lot going on in the middle of the pitch, should be interesting to find out how to prevent the opponents from blasting me away on the flanks. The 3 forwards will be a challenge as well, I'm not sure if I should give them 3 different roles or give 2 forwards a similar role? Ah well, that's what the friendlies are for!

[Cider Ed]

One thing I would possibly change is making Cuadrado a Complete wing back or putting him on wingback attack (not that sure of difference). Hes a beast for me from the right back spot. I also give him the instruction to cross less, this way he seems to cut the ball back more or pass inside instead having blocked cross after blocked cross. By doing this you could maybe turn your right winger into an advanced playmaker support or inside forward support. This may help your midfield a little, especially if you turn your guy behind the striker into a support duty. Also i would be tempted to play around with the anchor man. although hes protecting your defence I dont think he will help attacking play. Maybe he could be your deep lying playmaker although im not too sure what I would do with Valero, Hes such an important player for me.

[goat101010]

after the two tweaks ive won the last two away games 3-0 so no clue whats going on. my best guess is that with the deep playmaker starting from a deeper position than most other roles ive accidentaly made a 4 2 1 0 3 kind of thing giving up big chunks of the picth to the other team

valero is back-up for pizzaro but hes been pretty good whenever ive had to use him.the anchorman is not really protecting anything as most goals come from the middle

[dspeters]

(3-4-3)

Ok, I've tried to create something from which I guess it might work (or it would go horribly wrong...).

The 3 central defenders were pretty easy. I don't want them to do any special, just defend. However I'm a bit anxious about opponents getting through on the flanks, so hopefully this can be solved with both WM's on defend duty.

As I now have 5 players in defensive roles, I think both CM's shouldn't worry too much about the defense. I've chosen a DLP on support duty to reach my 3 forwards with his passes, and a CM on attack duty to close the gap between midfield and forwards.

Now I'm left with those 3 forwards, which is a bit of a brain teaser. I've chosen for an advanced forward surrounded by 2 poachers. I have no clue if that's going to work, but we'll see. Given the player types they should be knowing what to do with their roles. Hopefully they won't get in each other's way.

I've set the mentality to control, as I don't think I have the right set of strikers available to counter. The fluidity remains balanced.

As for the team instructions, the shorter passing will hopefully prevent the defence and midfield from launching the ball forward towards my three musketeers. Basically the same applies to 'Work Ball Into Box'. The tighter marking will hopefully prevent too many problems down the flanks.

I haven't set any individual instructions yet, but if my forwards keep getting in each other's way or there is a gap between the lines I might set some.

Transferwise I've terminated the loans of Zanon, Anderson and Diakite, as none of them were going to be in my starting 11 or even amongst the subsitutes.

Hopefully this will work in the upcoming friendlies. If you have any suggestions, then please let me know.

[NoChance]

Background

I'm using the 4-2-2-2, with 2 DMs and 2 CMs. I've brought in only one signing - Lorik Cana - in part for leadership, and in part for providing additional options at DM and DC. I've also cancelled Diakite's loan - didn't see him getting into the team at any point, and completely re-jigged the backroom staff.

My initial assumption was that the 4-2-2-2 was going to prove to be pretty defensive, so I assumed set pieces were going to be important. Subsequently, I've set up training for the relevant players on corner taking, free kick taking, penalties and long throws. Ambrosini starts with 18 for long throws, so I've also set him to learning the bullet throw PPM. As it turns out, however, the formation lends itself far more than I anticipated to an attacking style. I've left the training in place, just in case.

For team training, the initial problem is building team cohesion: even though I've only signed one player, the assistant is of the opinion that the team cohesion is lacking.

Tactics

So, my first plan was a counter-attacking style:

Plan B was for a defensive style:

And Plan C a more attacking style:

I don't set many team or player instructions, because I tend to set them up in response to an individual opponent. I spend quite a bit of time looking at the opponents (e.g. player stats, player attributes, form, watch a previous match or two etc.) before choosing my team, and setting team and player instructions. Doesn't always work, Sampdoria playing a 4-2-3-1 against me, despite having played 3-5-2 in their previous matches, caught me out for example, but in general, I think it gives a better chance of finding weak spots in the opposition to exploit.

Results

We're doing okay in the league:

I think the big surprises here are Roma and Milan - it's made it easier for us to be in the top 4 that both of them started poorly. But, our next few league fixtures are going to be tricky:

Ignore the friendly pre-season matches in those fixtures: all the teams were chosen to be cannon fodder to build morale. The Bologna game was also a massive stroke of luck - holding on for 1-1, and taking a battering, until the ref gave us a penalty. Shortly afterwards, Bologna had a player sent off, and fell apart.

In most of the matches, each of the 3 trained tactics have ben used at various points. I'm more than happy to go defensive to try to hold onto a lead, the boardroom haven't asked for attacking football in particular. However, The defensive tactic is proving to be a lot less effective than I'd expected. The problem is essentially that the MCs end up sitting on top of the DMs (blue line is MCs, red is DMs):

This both results in the midfield being easier to bypass for the opposition, and fewer passing opportunities for us when we have posession.

On the other hand, the attacking tactics, are far more effective than I'd expected (blue for MCs, red for DMs, purple for full backs):

This example is my RB - Cuadrado - crossing for my LB - Pasqual - to score. As you can see, no shortage of bodies in the box. Even better, no real option for the opposition if they do regain possession than a long punt upfield: 10 of their players are in their own area.

The other difficulty I'm facing is Gomez. He's just not doing it for me at all, and now his morale is starting to dip too (light grey area was the pre-season friendlies):

It's not just the lack of goals or the poor ratings, it's that he's just not looking the part on the pitch. Pretty much whenever an attacking move gets to him, it breaks down. I'm thinking of dumping him into the reserves for a few games to try to find some form and to try to get his morale back up.

Future plans

I think the defensive tactic is going to be dumped in favour of a fluid, control posession-based tactic. The defensive tactic isn't working for me, and rather than trying to wrestle with it, I think I'll be better off having a plan B that's more of a contrast to my counter tactic. The counter tactic relies on through balls to provide a threat, while the attacking tactic is about getting the ball forward quickly. A control tactic may be more effective against certain opponents by being a slower build up, and allowing the midfield more time to get forward to support the front 2. I'll probably set this up to start building familiarity now, but I can't see it being utilised until after the Inter match - I doubt I'll be using anything other than the counter and (flawed) defensive tactics against Roma, Juve and Inter.

[NoChance]

thats the thing with moral, the way its going i cant see where the next win will come from, if you look at the fixtures its not like im playing inter, milan or juve its catania and sass that are battering me

changing am to support shouldnt really affect the attack seeing as goals are not exactly flying in anyway, might help to pinch a few draws and maybe raise the morale. ill give that a go cheers

How's your team cohesion doing? I noticed for my attempt that team cohesion started pretty badly - that could be contributing to weak morale?

[PeeKay]

3232 Mid-Season Break

Sneaked into second in the previous game but have been fourth most of the season.

Notice that Roma has not won a game yet!

However, we got dumped out of the Europa league at the group stage with some really poor performances. Slight issue is whenever the game is televised I usually loose.

Key Games

Inter, Away 2-1 Win

First game of the season and Inter’s Milito scores a long range screamer after 5 minutes but a brace from Gomez in the second half rescues a deserved win.

Juventus, Home 3-2 Win

Second game, got lucky and we should have lost. Juve take the lead from a set piece but Gomez equalizes from a poor pass from Buffon. Then Gomez chases a clearance from Savic to take the lead but Llorente levels by receiving the ball in the channel (this becomes a recurring issue that I will discuss later). However, another Gomez interception from a terrible back pass to score the winner. Savic’s clearance did not count as an assist so Gomez scores a hat trick without the team providing any key passes! This then prompted a bad patch only one win in six games against some weak teams.

AZ, Home 0-2 Loss

AZ scored at 30 minutes from a corner. I did a triple substitution at 60 minutes to try to get back into the game. However, injuries forced 3 players off and I finished the game with 8 men on the pitch with AZ grabbing the last a second a minute before time. Injuries have undone my plans a few times.

A.C Milan, Away 1-3 Loss

Martin Montoya gets sent off after picking up a second yellow on 29 minutes and Muntari scores from the resulting free kick. Got absolutely hammered, interposing only 4 shots on their goal.

Players

Gomez has been outstanding with 20 goals so far this season. Doesn’t provide anything else to the team but finishing has been saving my skin. With an Anticipation of 19, a lot of his goals come from interceptions. He is also frustratingly off-side all the time!

Rossi has been great when I can get him on the pitch. My recent run has coincided with his return to the team from injury. Been playing him as a CF(s) in the STCR position and that seems to work in the team.

Matri has been playing instead of Rossi when he is unavailable. Gomez and Matri have Pace and power and that can make up for the loss of skill.

Neto is good enough and I didn’t really need to bring in Wiese even if he was free.

Aquilani is better from deep in the MC position rather than AMC, and has been as good as Valero which is surprising.

Cuadrado is no wingback and has been awful for me. I’ve better luck with Tomovic as a backup right wingback and, new, signing Montoya claiming the plaudits with some good performances.

There is a distinct lack for height for the defenders. Only Diakite, Savic and Hegzy are over 6’. That is 3 out of the 7 DC’s in the first team that I can trust to win balls in the air.

The Tactic

The 3232 with Fiorentina squad has strength and weakness and has been a real learning experience for me. Didn’t know the team before this experiment but I’m sure I would not have used a 3232 for them. My 3232 has been evolving, the barren patch early in the season had me analysing the tactic making tweaks.

JDownie was spot on about the centre backs pushing too far forward and against two striker formations were being played on-side by the Sweeper. They were getting through creating too may CCC (see diagram below, sponsored by Tony Hart).

In the past, I’ve used a flat 3 DC with Stoppers on the outside and Cover for the middle DC with much success and I figured to use the same principles. I was wrong. I didn’t realise was that the Sweeper allow the opposing strikers to get beyond the centre backs without being offside. Almost any pass from the midfield, down the channels, gave the strikers a simple chance. The off-side rule change in recent years is probably the reason why Sweeper formations are so rare today.

As I can’t change the formation so I’ll have to adapt. I’ve tried a number of different combinations for the role and duties assigned to the defenders and wingback. Also, I looked at Team instructions to play narrower or tighter marking. This is what I find is working cutting out the runs down the channel.

Player Instructions

GK – Distribute To Defenders

WBR and WBL – Sit Narrower

MCL – More Direct Passing

AP – Pass It Shorter

STCR and STCL – Move Into Channels

The defenders drop deeper and the Sweeper steps forward. The V-Shape between defenders is still there but it’s squashed and wider. The Wingbacks sit narrower to stay in contact with defenders and reduce the size of the channel. The midfielders drops deeper as well but I’m not quite convinced that the DLP should not be on support, something I’m still looking at.

[goat101010]

How's your team cohesion doing? I noticed for my attempt that team cohesion started pretty badly - that could be contributing to weak morale?

assistant said they are blending well, so not too bad

[Jambo98]

Gotta say really enjoying reading all the findings in this thread - people learning, applying things and generally enjoying the game it seems. I am enjoying my save more than any I have in FM14 i think.

I expected hardly anyone to fancy this, so great that people have gotten involved. I think one of the great parts, it was mentioned by someone earlier, but its around the fact that in a normal save, a couple of games where things go wrong and i would be trying to change the formation. This way, i cant. I have to think more about the other aspects. I have to watch closely what roles and duties do, the combinations, how PI and TI can combine to create an approach outside of what the "formation" might be.

Been great reading how others are doing this as well. Will do a winter break write up for my save with my observations about the tactic etc shortly

[dspeters]

A few friendlies into the game I found that the 2 biggest problems in the 3-4-3 formation are the ones I already expected at the start:

1) I get slaughtered at the flanks. My wide midfielders don't defend as they're supposed to and my centre backs don't have a clue what to do with opponents attacking from the sides. Still trying out several individual instructions to cover this.

2) There is quite a gap between my attack and midfield. Hopefully changing one of the attacking roles to trequartista and updating the CM roles to AP-a and CM-s will solve this.

[Jambo98]

A few friendlies into the game I found that the 2 biggest problems in the 3-4-3 formation are the ones I already expected at the start:

1) I get slaughtered at the flanks. My wide midfielders don't defend as they're supposed to and my centre backs don't have a clue what to do with opponents attacking from the sides. Still trying out several individual instructions to cover this.

2) There is quite a gap between my attack and midfield. Hopefully changing one of the attacking roles to trequartista and updating the CM roles to AP-a and CM-s will solve this.

I would look at using Defensive wingers for the first problem, they are a massively underrated role. Also consider use of OI or specific man marking.

For the second part, although treq mght help, very much worth looking at something like DLF(s) to drop off. Rossi has the PPM "Comes deep to get ball" which might work nicely (killing me in my game, but thats another story!)

[Mark.]

Got a bit of free time tonight so will hopefully load up and give the 3-4-2-1 DM a run. Looking forward to it.

[TwinsFan86]

Finally have some time to work on the 3-6-1. First couple friendlies have gone pretty well and I should have something to post either tonight or tomorrow.

[alinp]

Is it too late to get in on this?

[Jambo98]

Is it too late to get in on this?

Absolutely not, its not time bound. There are a few who i dont think have started. Only a few formations left for this "first run" though..........

Put your name into the machine and:

alinp - 4 4 2 Diamond

Reasonably conventional, although quite attacking

[TwinsFan86]

Alright, so I was a bit surprised when I clicked on the default 3-6-1 tactic. It wasn't the formation I was expecting, but it I can see some potential there.

Here's what I'm going to start with for roles and TI's.

I have the GK with "Distribute to Defenders" and the RGA with "More Direct Passes" as the only two PI's to start with.

I also have a slightly different Counter and Attack variant of the formation too.

[JD nawrat]

The 361 is a wonderful looking formation. Could create some deadly moves with that, the marauding fullbacks, three centre backs and two DMs should make you able to be extremely offensive whilst also being solid at the back thinks to a constant presence of 7 deep players... interested in that one

[Mark.]

Oh the 3-6-1 is very nice. Kind of like the 3-4-2-1 DM I was given, just fits the team a little more. I have pretty much the exact same role distribution in the back 7 players. Except I have the WBR as a complete wing back.

So far I am setting up like this:

I am not 100% sure whether I want to stick with this Counter style, sitting deep or push up. I like the amount of space I could create to counter into so think I will stick with that for now.

One more thing I am a little unsure of is the squad itself. Listed is what I see as my first 11. Let me know if I should be considering other players. Will probably look to bring in a inverted winger type for the right hand side.

[Jambo98]

I would look to play Joaquin, but that might be personal choice as he has been a fave of mine for years. Great pace. That said, he is a better winger than IF, and can see how him and Cuardado might not work together.

Illic is worth a look as well for the left hand side.

Rossi will likely be injured..........so the challenge is the other strikers you have dont seem to lend themself to Treq. Gomez is excellent for me, he might not look it but his high anticipation means he just ends up in the right place at the right time.

An alternate set up could be to use Rossi as you IF, and either Matri or Gomez in a more "static" role in the CF spot - someone to hold the ball.

Lots of options with that formation, it looks lovely!

[Mark.]

I would look to play Joaquin, but that might be personal choice as he has been a fave of mine for years. Great pace. That said, he is a better winger than IF, and can see how him and Cuardado might not work together.

Illic is worth a look as well for the left hand side.

Rossi will likely be injured..........so the challenge is the other strikers you have dont seem to lend themself to Treq. Gomez is excellent for me, he might not look it but his high anticipation means he just ends up in the right place at the right time.

An alternate set up could be to use Rossi as you IF, and either Matri or Gomez in a more "static" role in the CF spot - someone to hold the ball.

Lots of options with that formation, it looks lovely!

Thanks for the input.

I like Joaquin too, but as you said he is more a winger type. The AMR is ideally going to provide a bit of central support, could actually make him an AP, will have to play around with it.

Was thinking I would use this for when Rossi is fit, also think Illic could play up there too, and then have another tactic that presses up a little more and use the Striker as more of a static holding player.

[TwinsFan86]

Alright, so I was a bit surprised when I clicked on the default 3-6-1 tactic. It wasn't the formation I was expecting, but it I can see some potential there.

Here's what I'm going to start with for roles and TI's.

I have the GK with "Distribute to Defenders" and the RGA with "More Direct Passes" as the only two PI's to start with.

I also have a slightly different Counter and Attack variant of the formation too.

Already made a couple changes. Found the AP/s and the RGA were basically on top of each other in the attacking third, so I moved the SS to the AMCL spot and the AMCR role is now AM/s. Theoretically, should still act as a bit of creator without being 2 steps from the Regista all the time. I switched about 20 minutes into the first friendly and after the change, the spacing from the players was much better.

[Cider Ed]

Ive never played a Regista, didn't realize they got so far forward. Ive got to admit when I saw your formation I got a little bit envious, it looks like it could do a lot of damage and I think Fiorentina have got the players to do said damage. Ive nearly had it with Gomez, hes my top scorer but offers so little more than just scoring and for me he misses a fair few as well. Ive started playing Matri more regularly as an advanced forward in Gomez place and he links up with his teammates better.

[srinath]

I am in. Are there any formations left?

[PeeKay]

It's been a few days since I've fired up FM and the end of year awards as announced. I couldn't believe it:

Typical, I can't get Luis Suarez into the World Team but Mario Gomez can without even trying!!!

Who decides these awards?

[Bluebird123]

I'm sorry I haven't commented for a while. I loaded up FM and went to load the save but it wouldn't load so it looks like it's gone. I didn't get too far so I might start it again but I don't have a lot of free time.

Shame really as Fiorentina have a good squad and it was looking to be an interesting challenge

[Jambo98]

It's been a few days since I've fired up FM and the end of year awards as announced. I couldn't believe it:

Typical, I can't get Luis Suarez into the World Team but Mario Gomez can without even trying!!!

Who decides these awards?

I feel ya!

Ive played with Suarez, Sturridge, various other top strikers! Other than Messi, Gomez is doing better than the lot!

To be fair, for a pure goalscorer you cant get attributes much better than his. In my game at the moment

Finishing: 18

Composure:17

Anticipation: 19

Off the Ball: 18

Take those 4 key stats, and he is going to end up in the right place, at the right time, and be able to take advantage of it. Add in:

Acceleration: 15

Pace: 16

Strength: 17

And he is good in the air! Now he wont ever be a "link man" or a "creator", but as a goalscorer he is unmatched. Only Ballotelli and Lukaku can boast above 15 in those 7 categories, and neither are as high in them as Gomez.

In many ways i would like to try him in a tactic which gets even more out of him. DLF(a) probably isnt quite right for him. Might be a second season idea...........

[PeeKay]

I feel ya!

Ive played with Suarez, Sturridge, various other top strikers! Other than Messi, Gomez is doing better than the lot!

To be fair, for a pure goalscorer you cant get attributes much better than his. In my game at the moment

Finishing: 18

Composure:17

Anticipation: 19

Off the Ball: 18

Take those 4 key stats, and he is going to end up in the right place, at the right time, and be able to take advantage of it. Add in:

Acceleration: 15

Pace: 16

Strength: 17

And he is good in the air! Now he wont ever be a "link man" or a "creator", but as a goalscorer he is unmatched. Only Ballotelli and Lukaku can boast above 15 in those 7 categories, and neither are as high in them as Gomez.

In many ways i would like to try him in a tactic which gets even more out of him. DLF(a) probably isnt quite right for him. Might be a second season idea...........

He got a Sports Hernia 3 days after the awards! Out for 4-5 weeks.

Maybe playing him as a DLF(a) might stop him being off-side, that is what winds be up so much with him.

[alinp]

Can't say I was chuffed when I got this, but let's see what can be made of it. It's certainly not a formation I'd choose for myself as it has a great big hole in the middle and hence I don't see it as a possession dominant option.

So... pre-season over and I've settled on this

with these TI's (which are those I've brought over from my Liverpool save) which are based around what I think is an aggressive Counter-attacking strategy which helps give plenty of movement and passing options when in possession. As we won't be aiming to dominate possession, I think Counter is the way to go. Once this one is up to speed, I will train Control & Attack versions, just so that I can up the tempo even higher if needed.

plus PI's of Distribute to Defenders for the GK and Sit Narrower for the 2 Wide Midfielders.

The basic principles are that it's simple defence with once of the CD's covering the attacking FB and dropping back slightly to (hopefully) catch/stop runners. I considered wing-back to overlap the wide men naturally, but (at least at this stage) think that may be a little to adventurous, so FB's are the choice as they're a tad safer.

I've decided to play Fluid as I think the basic team is good enough to be given sufficient freedom to express themselves, so my only specialist roles will be 1 playmaker (which in the screenshot is a DLP, but if the oppo play an AM, I will likely change this to a DM and make the AM an AP), a DW(s) to help out on the right if the FB bombs forward & a CF(s) to provide a bit of creation up front. I did flirt with an F9 in pre-season, but settled on CF as I felt it suited Rossi better.

The AM (whether as AMs or APs) I have noticed nicely drops back and it's not uncommon for it actually to look like a flat(ish) 442.

Pre-season went generally ok

Euro Cup next...

[dspeters]

(3-4-3)

Well, that was an interesting start. I used all of the friendlies and even the EURO Cup Playoff to experiment, but I think I finally created a tactic that doesn't make me look like a complete fool in the league.

These are my results for the first games, it doesn't look brilliant:

Luckily I won the 2nd leg of the EURO Cup Playoffs with the tactic I'm going to use for the moment:

Normally Aquilani is playing instead of Fernandez, but unfortunately he is injured.

I have set the following player instructions:

CM - Get Further Forward

DLF - Roam From Position (2x)

I can't wait to start in the league properly, hopefully I don't have to tweak my tactics as much anymore. I will keep you informed!

[NoChance]

It's been a few days since I've fired up FM and the end of year awards as announced. I couldn't believe it:

Typical, I can't get Luis Suarez into the World Team but Mario Gomez can without even trying!!!

Who decides these awards?

Hmm, I must be doing something wrong with him then:

[alinp]

First Serie A match... away to Inter

Crikey!!

[Jambo98]

Can't say I was chuffed when I got this, but let's see what can be made of it. It's certainly not a formation I'd choose for myself as it has a great big hole in the middle and hence I don't see it as a possession dominant option.

So... pre-season over and I've settled on this

with these TI's (which are those I've brought over from my Liverpool save) which are based around what I think is an aggressive Counter-attacking strategy which helps give plenty of movement and passing options when in possession. As we won't be aiming to dominate possession, I think Counter is the way to go. Once this one is up to speed, I will train Control & Attack versions, just so that I can up the tempo even higher if needed.

plus PI's of Distribute to Defenders for the GK and Sit Narrower for the 2 Wide Midfielders.

The basic principles are that it's simple defence with once of the CD's covering the attacking FB and dropping back slightly to (hopefully) catch/stop runners. I considered wing-back to overlap the wide men naturally, but (at least at this stage) think that may be a little to adventurous, so FB's are the choice as they're a tad safer.

I've decided to play Fluid as I think the basic team is good enough to be given sufficient freedom to express themselves, so my only specialist roles will be 1 playmaker (which in the screenshot is a DLP, but if the oppo play an AM, I will likely change this to a DM and make the AM an AP), a DW(s) to help out on the right if the FB bombs forward & a CF(s) to provide a bit of creation up front. I did flirt with an F9 in pre-season, but settled on CF as I felt it suited Rossi better.

The AM (whether as AMs or APs) I have noticed nicely drops back and it's not uncommon for it actually to look like a flat(ish) 442.

Pre-season went generally ok

Euro Cup next...

Rossi will do very well in that role i think, his PPM "Comes deep to get the ball" will get him exactly where you want him.

[alinp]

Struggled to sign anyone before window shut, but have my loanee...

I'm lacking cover on the left, so already got him training as ML and hopefully he'll do a nice job for me.

[Cider Ed]

Vargas has overtaken Pasqual as my first choice left-back. Hes also scored a few thunderbolt free-kicks. He might be worth a second look as im sure he could play the left midfield role decently too

[alinp]

Vargas has overtaken Pasqual as my first choice left-back. Hes also scored a few thunderbolt free-kicks. He might be worth a second look as im sure he could play the left midfield role decently too

Indeed - I have him as an option, but the squad does lack depth and as I have to use an ML, an extra body seemed sensible.

[TottenhamFan101]

(4-1-3-2)

Well, my first tactic was used up until the second Videoton game. Then i raged a little and deleted that tactic and completely started the tactic over. I tried to keep it simple, and not stray very far away from the basic roles the tactic starts with this time. At first we started to pick up points, and our defence looked tight. Now though, we just get opened up time after time, whether its a long ball, through ball, or even a tiki-taka goal, we just get dominated. PLEASE HELP!

[Cider Ed]

My two cents would be:

* Choose one of the ways you have set up and stick to it, altering instructions and roles when you see fit but keep a base style of play for all games.

* Use wing-backs and not full-backs. They will get forward better and you have 2 players on each side that can play these roles well

* More Direct Passing and Pass Into Space will keep giving the opposition the ball especially when you have no real width.

* Use an Advanced Playmaker (possibly with a CM(a)) as you need someone to link the midfield with the attack. Valero or Ilicic can perform these roles fine.

* If playing Counter dont hassle opponents and Push Higher Up unless your chasing the game. Counter from my experience works best when you let the opponents come at you.

[TottenhamFan101]

My two cents would be:

* Choose one of the ways you have set up and stick to it, altering instructions and roles when you see fit but keep a base style of play for all games.

* Use wing-backs and not full-backs. They will get forward better and you have 2 players on each side that can play these roles well

* More Direct Passing and Pass Into Space will keep giving the opposition the ball especially when you have no real width.

* Use an Advanced Playmaker (possibly with a CM(a)) as you need someone to link the midfield with the attack. Valero or Ilicic can perform these roles fine.

* If playing Counter dont hassle opponents and Push Higher Up unless your chasing the game. Counter from my experience works best when you let the opponents come at you.

Thanks very, very much Ed! Will try it out tomorrow!

[CamillePunk]

Throw my name in the hat as I'm intrigued by this and seeking a different kind of challenge.

[PeeKay]

Hmm, I must be doing something wrong with him then:

I can see why he can be hit or miss.

I play him as a Advance Forward and have him closing down, not that he actually closes down anyone, but a large number of his goals have come from interceptions. His impressive mental attributes gives him the ability to read the game...when he can be bothered.

[NoChance]

(4-1-3-2)

Well, my first tactic was used up until the second Videoton game. Then i raged a little and deleted that tactic and completely started the tactic over. I tried to keep it simple, and not stray very far away from the basic roles the tactic starts with this time. At first we started to pick up points, and our defence looked tight. Now though, we just get opened up time after time, whether its a long ball, through ball, or even a tiki-taka goal, we just get dominated. PLEASE HELP!

Your results since Videoton aren't that bad: 3 defeats (2 against 2 of the strongest teams in the division), 2 draws (1 away to a top side), and 4 wins. I think one problem you have now is that the defeats have come in a run, so your morale isn't going to be great going into the next games. I'd try backing off and playing a bit more defensively for a couple of matches: you've 2 or 3 more tough games to come, I'd aim to limit the damage to morale before the run of more reasonable games after that. The home game against Catania would probably be where I started playing for the win again rather than going for the draw.

I'm using the 4-2-2-2 formation, so I suspect the tactical problems we're facing are similar? The gap between midfield and attack is too large, so the front two are getting overwhelmed before the midfield support can arrive? I've been using a WB A on one side and a couple of CM As in midfield to try to counter this, with limited success, but I'm still struggling to get the front two firing. Looking at your tactics, I'd be inclined to use fewer team instructions, especially as your tactics are fluid. Your attacking formation only has two players with an attack duty as well: I'd suggest a couple more, probably Cuadrado and Ilicic, with changing Pizzaro to a support. For the counter one, how is Gomez doing as a CF S - I haven't tried him in any sort of support role, so would love to hear how he does with it?

[NoChance]

I can see why he can be hit or miss.

I play him as a Advance Forward and have him closing down, not that he actually closes down anyone, but a large number of his goals have come from interceptions. His impressive mental attributes gives him the ability to read the game...when he can be bothered.

Yeah, I think the problem is that we're not creating enough chances for him - the 4-2-2-2 means there's too few bodies in the attack to create spaces for him to exploit. Rossi's doing a little better, but not much. I think I need someone who can hold the ball up long enough for the midfield support to arrive, so I suspect I'll be recruiting in January (board just stumped up some extra cash) and re-training Rossi to play in the midfield.

I did try Gomez for a couple of matches as a support defensive forward to encourage him to win the ball high up the pitch, but he was dropping too deep with that role (I want him near the opposition area, rather than near my penalty area). I will try your AF with closing down: I guess what I'm really after is the old defensive forward role with attack duty, and a closing down AF may be a good facsimile of it.

[77caddie]

I would enjoy participating in this if there are any formations remaining.

[Jambo98]

Still really enjoying this, and glad to see that others are as well. Some great tactical ideas and development going on through this thread.

In my own game, have been knocked off the top of the league with just 8 games to go. We had sat at the top since about week 7 (give or take the odd few days where Juve played before us). We had a damaging 3 game period, where we got completely outplayed by Milan at the San Siro, and lost 3 nil. Was just down to out players not performing, lots of individual mistakes and Balotelli destroyed us. 3 days later we had a cup match against Cagliari away, and i rotated heavily. We lost that match as well, probably down to the team selection.

The problem then became morale. Morale seems to be way over sensitive in the game currently (just my opinion) and after 2 defeats in a row, we had to play Juve. Our morale was down and we got ouplayed and well beaten in the end. I find it really hard to stop these "morale induced" form slumps which is annoying, because its not really tactical.

We did manage to kick out of it with a couple of wins after this (luckily we had easy fixtures) but a month or so later we have lost a couple of games tactically. Sassuolo and Atalanta both beat us by counter attacking. Seems clear that teams have learned how to play against me, so need to make some tweaks. We also got knocked out of europe by Chronormorets which was annoying, as we managed to beat Lyon the round before. However i was still fully rotating in these matches so probably bad management.

Recent results show how things have dropped off a little:

Similar themes as the rest of the season for me with the players. Gomez continues to be excellent, top scorer in the division by a distance now:

Rossi continues to woefully underperform in what should be a key role in my team. The "comes deep" PPM is really killing my idea of him getting up with Gomez and beyond. I am going to try him at Treq now just to see if i can get more from him, also to help unllock the deeper defenses we are now facing.

Made a couple of other PI tweaks, and removed "retain possession" as a TI to try and combat the teams sitting in. Winning the league from here is a big ask as Juve are on a great run.....

[Kick Wilstra]

This seems an interesting experiment. Could you give the mythical machine a swing for me?

main problems are conceding a lot of goals in the first half, midfield not getting any kind of hold on the game and nobody is even playing well

I think you're left side is a bit unbalanced. WB, W, AM all tend to go forward, running the risk of having too many players in front off the ball if you loose possession. Giving you AM a support duty, change MR to WM or DW, and/or changing to WB to FB might help.

[Jambo98]

Ok, was down to the last 3 tactics and for the 2 recent who asked to sign up, the machine chose:

CamillePunk - 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 DEEP

Kick Wilstra - 4 - 1 - 2- 1 - 2

[77caddie]

Does that mean I get the last one? see post #145

[Jambo98]

Does that mean I get the last one? see post #145

Yup missed that!

The last remaining formation is:

77caddie - 4 - 4 - 1 - 1