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The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

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Nick OGS20

Nick OGS20

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UNITED STAT ATTACK 06/07 - NEW AND IMPROVED, AND TOP OF THE LEAGUE

Appearances:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

1. Edwin VAN DER SAR | 13 | 5 | | | 18 |

2. Gary NEVILLE | 11 | 3 | | | 14 |

3. Patrice EVRA | 9(2) | 1(2) | | 0(1) | 10(5) |

4. Gabriel HEINZE | 3(2) | 3 | | 2 | 8(2) |

5. Rio FERDINAND | 14 | 3(1) | | | 17(1) |

6. Wes BROWN | 6(1) | 3 | | 2 | 11(1) |

7. Cristiano RONALDO | 12 | 4 | | 1 | 17 |

8. Wayne ROONEY | 11 | 5 | | 1 | 17 |

9. Louis SAHA | 12(1) | 4 | | | 16(1) |

11. Ryan GIGGS | 10(1) | 2 | | | 12(1) |

13. PARK Ji-Sung | 1(3) | | | | 1(3) |

14. Alan SMITH | | 0(2) | | 2 | 2(2) |

15. Nemanja VIDIC | 9 | 4 | | | 13 |

16. Michael CARRICK | 11(1) | 5 | | | 15(1) |

18. Paul SCHOLES | 11 | 4(1) | | | 14(1) |

20. Ole Gunnar SOLSKJAER | 3(4) | 1(2) | | 1 | 5(6) |

22. John O'SHEA | 6(6) | 3(2) | | 1 | 10(8) |

23. Kieran RICHARDSON | 2(1) | 0(2) | | 2 | 4(3) |

24. Darren FLETCHER | 6(5) | 3(1) | | 1 | 10(5) |

25. David JONES | | | | 2 | 2 |

27. Mikael SILVESTRE | 3(4) | 2 | | 2 | 7(4) |

29. Tomasz KUSZCZAK | 1 | | | 2 | 3 |

34. Ryan SHAWCROSS | | | | 0(2) | 0(2) |

35. Kieran LEE | | | | 0(2) | 0(2) |

36. David GRAY | | | | 1 | 1 |

41. Philip MARSH | | | | 1 | 1 |

42. Michael BARNES | | | | 0(1) | 0(1) |

49. Ritchie JONES | | | | 1 | 1 |

</pre>

Goalscorers:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

9. Louis SAHA | 6 | 3 | | | 9 |

8. Wayne ROONEY | 7 | | | | 7 |

20. Ole Gunnar SOLSKJAER | 4 | 1 | | 1 | 6 |

7. Cristiano RONALDO | 4 | | | | 4 |

11. Ryan GIGGS | 2 | | | | 2 |

18. Paul SCHOLES | 1 | 1 | | | 2 |

15. Nemanja VIDIC | 2 | | | | 2 |

5. Rio FERDINAND | 1 | | | | 1 |

22. John O'SHEA | | 1 | | | 1 |

23. Kieran RICHARDSON | | 1 | | | 1 |

24. Darren FLETCHER | 1 | | | | 1 |

27. Mikael SILVESTRE | 1 | | | | 1 |

35. Kieran LEE | | | | 1 | 1 |

Own Goals | 1 | | | | 1 |

| | | | | |

Totals | 30 | 7 | | 2 | 39 |

</pre>

Penalties:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

9. Louis SAHA 2/3

</pre>

Penalties won:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

7. Cristiano RONALDO 1

8. Wayne ROONEY 1

11. Ryan GIGGS 1

</pre>

Assists:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

9. Louis SAHA 7

8. Wayne ROONEY 5

11. Ryan GIGGS 5

7. Cristiano RONALDO 3

6. Wes BROWN 2

2. Gary NEVILLE 2

3. Patrice EVRA 1

13. PARK Ji-Sung 1

14. Alan SMITH 1

15. Nemanja VIDIC 1

16. Michael CARRICK 1

18. Paul SCHOLES 1

24. Darren FLETCHER 1

49. Ritchie JONEs 1

</pre>

At Fault For Goal:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

27. Mikael SILVESTRE 2

2. Gary NEVILLE 1

3. Patrice EVRA 1

5. Rio FERDINAND 1

6. Wes BROWN 1

7. Cristiano RONALDO 1

22. John O'SHEA 1

</pre>

Clean Sheets:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Charlton away (EPL)

Tottenham home (EPL)

Benfica away (CL)

Newcastle home (EPL)

FC Kobenhavn home (CL)

Liverpool home (EPL)

Bolton away (EPL)

Portsmouth home (EPL)

Blackburn away (EPL)

</pre>

Yellow Cards:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

18. Paul SCHOLES | 3 | 2 | | | 5 |

3. Patrice EVRA | 2 | 1 | | | 3 |

6. Wes BROWN | 2 | | | 1 | 3 |

8. Wayne ROONEY | 1 | | | 1 | 2 |

11. Ryan GIGGS | 2 | | | | 2 |

15. Nemanja VIDIC | 2 | | | | 2 |

16. Michael CARRICK | 1 | 1 | | | 2 |

22. John O'SHEA | 2 | | | | 2 |

4. Gabriel HEINZE | | 1 | | | 1 |

5. Rio FERDINAND | 1 | | | | 1 |

7. Cristiano RONALDO | | 1 | | | 1 |

23. Kieran RICHARDSON | 1 | | | 1 | 1 |

25. David JONES | | | | 1 | 1 |

27. Mikael SILVESTRE | | 1 | | | 1 |

35. Kieran LEE | | | | 1 | 1 |

</pre>

Average Goals Per Game: 2.48 (52 in 21)

Average Goals Scored Per Game: 1.86 (39 in 21)

Average Goals Conceded Per Game: 0.62 (13 in 21)

Games Won When Scoring First Goal: 12/13 (92.31%)

Games Drawn When Scoring First Goal: 1/13 (7.69%)

Games Lost When Scoring First Goal: 0/13

Games Won When Conceding First Goal: 3/8 (37.50%)

Games Drawn When Conceding First Goal: 1/8 (12.50%)

Games Lost When Conceding First Goal: 4/8 (50%)

Games Won When Leading At Half-Time: 8/9 (88.89%)

Games Drawn When Leading At Half-Time: 1/9 (11.11%)

Games Lost When Leading At Half-Time: 0/9

Games Won When Drawing At Half-Time: 6/10 (60%)

Games Drawn When Drawing At Half-Time: 1/10 (10%)

Games Lost When Drawing At Half-Time: 3/10 (30%)

Games Won When Losing At Half-Time: 1/2 (50%)

Games Drawn When Losing At Half-Time: 0/2

Games Lost When Losing At Half-Time: 1/2 (50%)

Time of Goals Scored:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

0 - 15 mins | 7 | | | | 7 |

15 - 30 mins | 4 | | | 1 | 5 |

30 - 45 mins | 3 | 3 | | | 6 |

45 - 60 mins | 3 | 3 | | | 6 |

60 - 75 mins | 8 | | | | 8 |

75 - 90 mins | 5 | 1 | | | 6 |

Extra Time | | | | 1 | 1 |

</pre>

Time of Goals Conceded:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

0 - 15 mins | 2 | | | | 2 |

15 - 30 mins | | 1 | | 1 | 2 |

30 - 45 mins | 2 | 1 | | | 3 |

45 - 60 mins | 1 | | | | 1 |

60 - 75 mins | 1 | 1 | | 1 | 3 |

75 - 90 mins | 1 | 1 | | | 2 |

Extra Time | | | | | |

</pre>

Manner of Goals Scored:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

Left foot | 7 | 5 | | | 12 |

Right foot | 18 | 2 | | 2 | 22 |

Head | 4 | | | | 4 |

Opponent | 1 | | | | 1 |

| | | | | |

Inside area | 26 | 5 | | 1 | 32 |

Outside area | 4 | 2 | | 1 | 7 |

| | | | | |

Open play | 25 | 5 | | 2 | 32 |

Set piece | 3 | 1 | | | 4 |

Direct freekick | 1 | | | | 1 |

Penalty | 1 | 1 | | | 2 |

</pre>

Manner of Goals Conceded:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

| Prem | ECL | FAC | TCC | Total |

| | | | | |

Left foot | 1 | 4 | | | 5 |

Right foot | 3 | | | 2 | 5 |

Head | 2 | | | | 2 |

United player | 1 | | | | 1 |

| | | | | |

Inside area | 5 | 2 | | | 7 |

Outside area | 2 | 2 | | 2 | 6 |

| | | | | |

Open play | 4 | 2 | | 1 | 7 |

Set piece | 1 | | | | 1 |

Direct freekick | 1 | 2 | | 1 | 4 |

Penalty | 1 | | | | 1 |

</pre>

Form

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Last Six (All comps): WLWWLD

Last Six (Prem/ship): WWWWWD

Home (All comps): LWWWWD

Home (Prem/ship): WLWWWD

Away (All comps): WLLWWL

Away (Prem/ship): WDWWWW

Games Unbeaten: 1 (all comps), 9 (premiership)

Consecutive Wins: 0 (all comps), 0 (premiership)

</pre>

Attendances:

Highest - 76,004, vs Portsmouth (Premiership, 4/11/06)

Lowest - 72,020, vs FC Kobenhavn (Champions League, 18/10/06)

Total - 675,658 (9 games)

Average - 75,073

Mart Leaving Early:

Sevilla home

Dubiously-legal female charity collectors ogled from the wall

Seven

Forthcoming Fixtures

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

29.11.06 Everton (H) Premiership

02.12.06 Middlesbrough (A) Premiership

06.12.06 Benfica (H) CL Matchday 6

09.12.06 Manchester City (H) Premiership

17.12.06 West Ham United (A) Premiership

23.12.06 Aston Villa (A) Premiership

</pre>

--------------------------------------------------------------

Reserves Update

Appearances: Kieran Lee 10, Ryan Shawcross 9, Daniel Rose 9, Ritchie Jones 8, Philip Marsh 7(3), Craig Cathcart 7(2), Tom Heaton 7, Aaron Burns 7, Michael Barnes 6(3), David Gray 6(1), David Jones 6, Jamie Mullan 5(1), Michael Lea 5(1), Alan Smith 5, Séan Evans 4(1), Tomasz Kuszczak 3, Floribert N'Galula 2, Christopher Eagles 1, Liam Miller 1, Sam Hewson 1(1), Giuseppe Rossi 1, Febian Brandy (5), Christy Fagan (2), Daniel Drinkwater (1), Magnus Wolff Eikrem (1),

Scorers: Philip Marsh 7, Aaron Burns 6, Febian Brandy 2, Giuseppe Rossi 2, Michael Barnes 2, Kieran Lee 1, Christopher Eagles 1, David Jones 1, Ryan Shawcross 1, Daniel Rose 1, David Gray 1, own goals 1 (Webster, Wigan)

Premier Reserve League North Table:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

P W D L F A GD Pts

1. M'boro Res 6 4 1 1 13 5 +8 13

2. Man Utd Res 6 4 0 2 13 7 +6 12

3. N'castle Res 5 3 2 0 11 6 +5 11

</pre>

Next Fixture:

30.11.06 Northwich Victoria (A) - Friendly, @ new Victoria Stadium

--------------------------------------------------------------

Academy Update

Appearances: James Chester 13, Christy Fagan 12(1), James Derbyshire 11(2), Febian Brandy 11(1), Magnus Wolff Eikrem 10(2), Craig Cathcart 9, Daniel Drinkwater 9(3), Richard Eckersley 8, Sam Hewson 8, Conor McCormack 8(1), Benjamin Amos 8, Daniel Welbeck 6(6), Antonio Bryan 7(3), Michael Lea 6, Ron-Robert Zieler 5, Daniel Galbraith 5, Corrie Evans 3(1), Kenny Strickland 2(1), Thomas Cleverley 2(1), Oliver Norwood (2), Matthew James (2)

Scorers: Brandy 9, Fagan 5, Welbeck 3, Bryan 2, Galbraith 1, Hewson 2, Cathcart 1, Eikrem 1, Lea 1

U18 Academy Group C Table:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

P W D L F A GD Pt

4. Crewe Yth 12 6 0 6 23 18 5 18

5. Man Utd Yth 13 5 3 5 25 23 2 18

6. Wolves Yth 13 4 3 6 16 23 -7 15

</pre>

Next Fixture:

02.12.06 Crewe Alexandra (H) - Academy C, @ Carrington

--------------------------------------------------------------

Assists and at-fault-for's up for debate ofc. Suggestions for further stats welcome.

Saha goal, Rooney assist, Carrick yellow card, all the other gubbins.

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Coldberg

Coldberg

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

can't believe Benfica has sold out /O\

my unbroken run of CL games since 2001 is under serious threat icon_frown.gif

btw lads, any views on who was at fault for Chelsea's goal today? apparently Andy Gray blamed Gaby. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can have James' ticket.

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Philip Rolfe

Philip Rolfe

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Suggestions for further stats welcome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

total cans consumed at the wall per person throughout the season, with a grand total at the end?

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Razor Eddie

Razor Eddie

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

Personally I think its no-ones fault just a great leap by Carvalho.

Carrick with his best game in a United shirt today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with PJ on these two points.

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SLO_Fila

SLO_Fila

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

Saha imo as if he hadn't headed the ball VDS may have kept it out.

Personally I think its no-ones fault just a great leap by Carvalho.

Carrick with his best game in a United shirt today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i think the bastard just got the perfect leap which Gaby couldn't have blocked unless he was taller.

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Nick OGS20

Nick OGS20

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Suggestions for further stats welcome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

total cans consumed at the wall per person throughout the season, with a grand total at the end? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that'd be a great one for next season icon_cool.gif

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gonch19

gonch19

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Posted

cant help but feel a bit disappointed after that, just hope ronaldo and saha are ok if not for wednesday then at least for next weekend. we cant afford to lose them for long.

ashley cole an utter utter ****, did anyone else on here see the v-sign to united fans at half time? no surprise that the all-seeing all-knowing mainstream media are completely ignoring it, had it been rooney or ronaldo you'd not hear the end of it

still, cant complain with a point, just wish we had maybe sneaked a winner. i predicted 1-0 chelsea with their goal to come from a setpiece and was nearly spot on. thankyou very much for saving my despair king louis

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14AlanSmithifb

14AlanSmithifb

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Well can't help but say im a little dissapointed, controlled the game in the first half and Chelsea didn't get a look in. Second half Chelse all over us in the middle of the field , why didn't Ferguson put Fletcher on? We were crying out for another body in midfield and not for 5 or 10 minutes , but for nigh on 20 minutes! I am convinced that if we brought fletcher on or even dare I say it O'shea we would have seen the game out, because the only reason they were playing so well in the second half was because we couldn't cope with their midfield. Just hope Ferguson doesn't rest players against Everton on Wednesday , I have a funny feeling they may nick a point.

That's the bad points out of the way, thought Scholes & Carrick bossed the game in the first half and didn't play overly bad in the second just needed some help. Thought all the back four played well especially Gabby, granted he wasn't up against much in first 45 but covered well and did the simple things well.

MoM: Carrick

2nd: Scholes

Also we're in the same predicament as you Nick, left it until last minute and all tickets been sold, just hope more will be out on sale nearer the time, for away's like you said more than anything.

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T!mbo

T!mbo

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SLO_Fila:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pjburrage:

Saha imo as if he hadn't headed the ball VDS may have kept it out.

Personally I think its no-ones fault just a great leap by Carvalho.

Carrick with his best game in a United shirt today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i think the bastard just got the perfect leap which Gaby couldn't have blocked unless he was taller. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gaby keeps getting sucked into the centre though. It happened against Celtic the first time they attacked and he left Paul Telfer wide in a huge amount of space.

For me he should've been in there challenging and muscling Carvalho out of the way rather than waiting on the far side for the over hit ball to make the counter attack. Carvalho had the space to take that step forward to get up in the air.

As Mika said. Saha was doing his job and made a bloody good attempt at getting the ball off the line. Even if VdS had got to it it would probably have hit Saha and rebounded in.

Can't really apportion blame on anyone for it though. All players were doing as instructed and it was a good header.

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mark g

mark g

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Posted

Heinze definitely at fault for the goal. the guy he was marking gets a full header onto the ball, i don't see where the debate is?

I was 50/50 about who should have played left back in the first place, and i thought Evra was a little unlucky to lose his place. Given that yet again we were asking Giggs to tuck in to help the midfield, it seems more important to have an attacking full back to compensate for the width we otherwise lack.

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Philip Rolfe

Philip Rolfe

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was 50/50 about who should have played left back in the first place, and i thought Evra was a little unlucky to lose his place. Given that yet again we were asking Giggs to tuck in to help the midfield, it seems more important to have an attacking full back to compensate for the width we otherwise lack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JM seemed to have picked up on that by realising he could sacrifice Geremi at half time, which allowed us to shove on an extra attacker and take advantage.

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BobARC

BobARC

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T!mbo:

That's the only reason I can think he was picked over Evra. Evra has shown that he's not always going to come off best if things get a bit combative but Gaby ended up out wide at the one time we really needed him in the middle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really understand what you mean, Heinze was marking Carvalho at the corner. He was at fault as he gave Carvalho space to get a running jump. The thing is Heinze isn't that good in the air anyway he's too short and frequently gets outjumped, he's only effective in stopping the other player jumping or getting a clean header and he failed.

Fault also has to go to Giggs who made a terrible pass which gave Chelsea possession and consequently the corner.

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Rb

Rb

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Manchester United are among a host of clubs chasing Scottish starlet Jamie McCarthy.

The Hamilton Academical youngster is earning rave reviews after a number of impressive performances.

The 16-year-old is highly thought of at Hamilton and is regarded as one of the best young players to emerge in Scotland for a number of years.

A number of sides have been alerted to McCarthy with a plethora of scouts taking in some of the Scottish First Division club's games this season.

United boss Sir Alex Ferguson's brother and chief scout, Martin, is thought have made a personal check on McCarthy this term.

Hamilton boss Billy Reid is aware of the growing interest in McCarthy and he believes the midfielder has the potential to go all the way to the top.

"There has been a lot of interest in Jamie," Reid told skysports.com.

"Every major club in Scotland and England have been keeping tabs on him.

"I believe Martin Ferguson took in a game to watch Jamie and there are always scouts at our games.

"He is an outstanding talent and if he keeps progressing he will reach the top.

"He made his debut at 15 and he is now in the first team.

"It will be hard to resist any big offers for him, but he is on a three-year contract with us." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Rb

Rb

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Sir Alex Ferguson has delegated responsibility for choosing who takes Manchester United's penalties to both Louis Saha and Cristiano Ronaldo.

French international Saha - who scored the opening goal in the 1-1 draw with Chelsea on Sunday - was reported to have been taken off spot kick duty following his late miss in the UEFA Champions League defeat to Celtic.

Red Devils captain Gary Neville had told his Bhoys counterpart Neil Lennon that Saha would miss the penalty as his head had gone, according to the Celtic man, before the striker saw his effort palmed clear by Artur Boruc.

As a result Ferguson had reportedly placed his trust in Ronaldo to take responsibility from 12 yards, with the winger proving to have nerves of steel when dispatching the penalty that knocked England out of the World Cup finals over the summer.

However, following the draw with Chelsea at Old Trafford, the Scot insisted that the pair will decide between themselves in future.

"I have left it between Louis and Cristiano to decide," said Ferguson.

"Sometimes if one is playing better than the other it is sensible for the one who is playing really well to take it, although I told Louis if he needed one for his hat-trick he should take it."

Ronaldo could be the undisputed penalty taker on Wednesday however, as Saha is a doubt for the game against Everton having picked up a knock against Chelsea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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T!mbo

T!mbo

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BobARC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T!mbo:

That's the only reason I can think he was picked over Evra. Evra has shown that he's not always going to come off best if things get a bit combative but Gaby ended up out wide at the one time we really needed him in the middle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really understand what you mean, Heinze was marking Carvalho at the corner. He was at fault as he gave Carvalho space to get a running jump. The thing is Heinze isn't that good in the air anyway he's too short and frequently gets outjumped, he's only effective in stopping the other player jumping or getting a clean header and he failed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heinze wasn't marking him though. He ran side on into the challenge rather than being that bit ahead and getting in front of Carvalho. If he had been marking properly he would've been able to become another obstacle that Carvalho would've had to contend with. I'm not saying he would've made the header but it could well have been enough to make it more difficult for Carvalho to reach as he would've had to have jumped over three men to get to it.

Part and parcel of set pieces is the blocking and obstructing of players in and around the penalty area so they aren't allowed the space to gain the momentum to jump like Carvalho did. Heinze failed to prevent the gap.

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BobARC

BobARC

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Posted

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T!mbo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BobARC:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T!mbo:

That's the only reason I can think he was picked over Evra. Evra has shown that he's not always going to come off best if things get a bit combative but Gaby ended up out wide at the one time we really needed him in the middle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really understand what you mean, Heinze was marking Carvalho at the corner. He was at fault as he gave Carvalho space to get a running jump. The thing is Heinze isn't that good in the air anyway he's too short and frequently gets outjumped, he's only effective in stopping the other player jumping or getting a clean header and he failed.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heinze wasn't marking him though. He ran side on into the challenge rather than being that bit ahead and getting in front of Carvalho. If he had been marking properly he would've been able to become another obstacle that Carvalho would've had to contend with. I'm not saying he would've made the header but it could well have been enough to make it more difficult for Carvalho to reach as he would've had to have jumped over three men to get to it.

Part and parcel of set pieces is the blocking and obstructing of players in and around the penalty area so they aren't allowed the space to gain the momentum to jump like Carvalho did. Heinze failed to prevent the gap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SRr6emqgr2E

You can see from that video that he is marking Carvalho, but for some reason he takes a little jump away from him just as the ball comes in, which allows Carvalho to get a run in on him.

I agree with the rest of that post, it's exactly what i said in mine. My point is Heinze wasn't 'out wide', as you said in the first post.

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mark g

mark g

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juni:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was 50/50 about who should have played left back in the first place, and i thought Evra was a little unlucky to lose his place. Given that yet again we were asking Giggs to tuck in to help the midfield, it seems more important to have an attacking full back to compensate for the width we otherwise lack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JM seemed to have picked up on that by realising he could sacrifice Geremi at half time, which allowed us to shove on an extra attacker and take advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's partly true, but I felt it was far more down to the fact that Giggs was more often than not tucking in to make a midfield three, leaving the full back with no direct opponent. An attacking full back would be more the responsibility of the widest midfielder, even in a narrow set up like yours, rather than the opposing full back.

You effectively saw the reverse happen once Robben came on. As Jose said, even though he didn't have a great game, simply his positioning high up the pitch and wide meant Gary Neville wasn't getting forward or supporting Ronaldo anything like as much as he had in the first half.

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alilaw

alilaw

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Equally mark (and I know I'll get flamed for this), Neville was somewhat put in that position by Ronaldo's complete inability in the second half to get back and help him out. Essien was allowed to get forward because as Paul Scholes moved right to combat Cole and Robben, Carrick and Giggs were pulled into the middle and our left side was completely exposed by the long 'switch' - which was played again and again by Chelsea in the second half. Whether or not it was SAF's tactical demands or that Ronnie was carrying an injury, I don't know, but I feel his inability to perform any defensive duties really put us on a back foot after half time.

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Coldberg

Coldberg

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

You can have James' ticket. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you don't want it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will have the ticket I normally have. Plus I know how much your parents love Nick.

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BobARC

BobARC

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alilaw:

Equally mark (and I know I'll get flamed for this), Neville was somewhat put in that position by Ronaldo's complete inability in the second half to get back and help him out. Essien was allowed to get forward because as Paul Scholes moved right to combat Cole and Robben, Carrick and Giggs were pulled into the middle and our left side was completely exposed by the long 'switch' - which was played again and again by Chelsea in the second half. Whether or not it was SAF's tactical demands or that Ronnie was carrying an injury, I don't know, but I feel his inability to perform any defensive duties really put us on a back foot after half time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty sure this was a tactical decision, United moved more to a 4-3-3 formation in the second half with Rooney and Ronaldo staying upfield on the wings looking to counter.

The real problem in the second half wasn't the tactics as such, but the fact that Saha Scholes and especially Giggs tired. Giggs was woeful in the second half and his position was key to the formation. I think the only problem with the tactics in the second half was that Rooney became isolated and his influence was removed, i would much rather he was central and deeper rather than stuck out on the wing. Ronaldo did well though, and didn't really need Neville's support, he did very well as the outball, taking the pressure off the defence and winning throw ins and free kicks up the field.

Either way our thin squad and lack of options on the bench cost us in this match. The only change i would have liked to see was Fletcher on for Giggs midway through the second half.

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mark g

mark g

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I felt it was tactical as well, although i'm not sure that's something you can ever truly know. With a strong bench, you'd find out because if it was Ronaldo being lazy and we had a winger to replace him Fergie could have taken him off. Although you could argue that if it were the case that Fergie wanted more defensive work from the right sided player, he did have that option in Fletcher.

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mark g

mark g

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I felt it was tactical as well, although i'm not sure that's something you can ever truly know. With a strong bench, you'd find out because if it was Ronaldo being lazy and we had a winger to replace him Fergie could have taken him off. Although you could argue that if it were the case that Fergie wanted more defensive work from the right sided player, he did have that option in Fletcher.

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mark g

mark g

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alilaw:

Well I blame Fergie then icon_mad.gif

It's all well and good saying Ronaldo was a good outlet for pressure in the second half, but if we had a better set-up in midfield defensively then we wouldn't have invited all the pressure in the first place. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While in a sense that's true, there are certainly more (and i think better) ways of doing it than pulling people back towards your own goal.

There's an argument for being braver, pushing Giggs into his more natural position, and forcing them to worry about you rather than the other way around. Essien was a big factor in the second half, and one of the reasons for that was that he didn't have to worry about a wide man running in behind him. Had we pushed him wide and on, and used Heinze (or brought on Evra) to push more into midfield and follow whoever would nominally be the furthest right player in the chelsea midfield 3 (Ballack mostly in the second half), you still have everyone covered, but you have more outlets and more importantly more options to keep the ball when you get it back. As it was, the deeper Giggs played, the more we invited pressure, and the more Essien was able to make an extra man in our final third anyway.

I've always believed that you'll concede more often that you'll hold out trying to shut up shop at 1-0, unless your team is truly of the right make up in terms of both personnel and attitude to have that mindset.

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BBB

BBB

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Thing is though, Nick needs his ticket in his name for the away applications, if needs be then I'll flog Keiths ticket for Benfica on RI, try and mend some bridges icon_biggrin.gif

Oi *****, wish me luck for my job interview at 4pm icon_smile.gif

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Scatter

Scatter

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tbf to fergie we weren't far from pulling it off. i mean aside from the goal and one drogba header that flashed wide, chelsea were restricted to long range shots.

despite that, i always felt we needed a second with how much ball we were giving away. it was a disappointing change of attitude as much as the tactical change from fergie.

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mark g

mark g

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

tbf to fergie we weren't far from pulling it off. i mean aside from the goal and one drogba header that flashed wide, chelsea were restricted to long range shots.

despite that, i always felt we needed a second with how much ball we were giving away. it was a disappointing change of attitude as much as the tactical change from fergie. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I felt it was more a lack of tactical change. We were set up pretty much the same way in the first half. It was Jose's change in tactics that changed the shape of the game. It was the lack of response to counter what was happening where i felt we lost out.

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14AlanSmithifb

14AlanSmithifb

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Keyser:

aside from the squad depth issue, it's a bleddy mystery why Fergie didn't respond to Jose's tactical change quickly enough in the second half. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactley what I have been saying, thing is it wasn't just 5 or 10 minuted of pressure before they scored it was nearly 25 minutes. You could just see that they were going to equalize, it was just so blatant.

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