Striker problems in every game

[fraeyke]

Hi,

I've been playing FM 14 for about 2000 houres now...

I've been playing with very good, good bad and very bad teams this edition... all with their on results (good and bad)

But every game i always have the same problem: My strikers are missing the most obvious-easy-a 5 year old could score it- chances.....

I've had this problem with ibrahimovic and i've had it with the lowest tier strikers.... i've never had a striker who will finish a bloody chance... and after the game in the press room: "bla bla bla was unlucky in front of goal.. any reason for this??" NO IDEA!!

I really have been trying EVERYTHING to make them more lethal but it just is not working... different roles,yelling at them, conforting them, warning them, rtc....

If there is anyone with any knowledge on the game mechanics or wherever this problem could be.

Their is no use of telling you with league or player it is because its really every time...

Could you please tell me that: 1) THis is just how the game works to keep realistic scores... in other words, its frustrating but you will have to deal with it

OR

2) There is a certain way to handle your strikers to make them more confident/capable/whatever.....

If you dont want to tell me, then dont...

Just inform me wich of the 2 it is so that i at least can stop wasting my time tweaking my tactics for hours and hours

[RTHerringbone]

As with all threads in this section of the forum, we need a certain level of information before any solid advice or opinions can be provided:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

Bottom line is that strikers miss chances. Some people accept it more readily that others, but tactical set ups can be a factor.

The value you place on in-game stats like CCCs and HCs are also factors. If you post your tactical settings, we can at least appraise that element.

[aspink3]

My striker won the premier league golden boot with 24 league goals, but I was often frustrated with the amout of sitters he missed. In one match he scored 4 within 34 minutes, another he scored 5 in 63 minutes. However in many games he wouldn't score at all despite being having many chances to score in each game. I really have no idea why he played like Ronaldo one game then looked like a youth team debutant the next :/

[RTHerringbone]

My striker won the premier league golden boot with 24 league goals, but I was often frustrated with the amout of sitters he missed. In one match he scored 4 within 34 minutes, another he scored 5 in 63 minutes. However in many games he wouldn't score at all despite being having many chances to score in each game. I really have no idea why he played like Ronaldo one game then looked like a youth team debutant the next :/

It's often simply down to a misjudged Mentality.

[David91]

THis is just how the game works to keep realistic scores... in other words, its frustrating but you will have to deal with it

This. I've complained a lot about this, but apart from "it's your tactics" posts, I've come to a conclusion that moronic striker behaviour is the compensation for poor defensive movement (by both player and AI), otherwise, we would have 4:5, 2:6 and similar results all the time. On the other hand, my strikers were top scorers in Italy and England, but their performances (or conversion rates, to be precise) were very, very poor compared to the number of really great chances that the team had created for them.

So, basically, you have two solutions - accept this and continue playing the game even if it frustrates you, or (like me), go back to any previous version, since ME was far better. Had flaws, but not this many. Cheers.

[fraeyke]

Thank you for your replies...

RTHherringbone,

As beeing a striker myself is accept and understand this fact to the fullest...

I dont take CCC's and HC's into account. I know they are not always correct.

I just base myself at what is see in the game...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/387552-World-Class-strikers-missing-CCC-s

At this thread i asked for advice allready and did not got any real answer tbh... but here you can find the tactics and line up

I just want to know if its a mental problem... or a managerial one..

thx

[RTHerringbone]

Pasting in the set up so people can read it and comment:

My formation is this:

Gk/d Siringu

FB/s CD/d CD/d FB/s Jallet Alex Tiago Silva Dinge

W/a AP/s CM/d W/a Lucas Verrati Khedira Pastore

P/a F9/s Cavani Ibra

Balanced/control

*passing shorter

*push higher up

*hassle opposition

*play wider

*play lower tempo

*play out of defense

*tackle harder

Hope thats more clear?

Thanks allready for the response

[fraeyke]

It's often simply down to a misjudged Mentality.

What do you mean with misjugded mentality?

[RTHerringbone]

A few things to consider:

You are by far the team with the highest reputation in France. You are using Control (quite Attacking Mentality) but will be often facing teams who are wary of your reputation and quality. They will sit deep and try to Counter when too many players are too advanced.

The Roles and Duties seem fine, so the basic set up is OK, but a lot depends on the sort of tactics you face in Ligue 1. Is it a 4-4-2 all the time, or are they like much of Europe with 4-2-3-1 and 4-1-2-2-1 variants leading the way?

Control is High and Wide, yet you play higher and wider. You are compressing already defensive teams into even deeper and more compact spaces. Your strikers have no time on the ball when they receive it. They snatch at chances and this could be a large part of your issue.

Is this your default approach, or do you vary it depending on who / where you play?

[Los_Culés]

Thank you for your replies...

RTHherringbone,

As beeing a striker myself is accept and understand this fact to the fullest...

I dont take CCC's and HC's into account. I know they are not always correct.

I just base myself at what is see in the game...

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/387552-World-Class-strikers-missing-CCC-s

At this thread i asked for advice allready and did not got any real answer tbh... but here you can find the tactics and line up

I just want to know if its a mental problem... or a managerial one..

thx

I had/have the same problem with strikers missing sitters, but I have learnt that there is always a reason. No matter how good strikers are, they will miss some easy chanches, but you can always influence it to some degree (from a managerial point of view). I mean, if you put a lot of pressure on strikers and they can not bear the pressure well, they will miss more. If you cuddle them too much, they will be complacent and miss them too. My advice is >> Learn the personality of your players, make notes how they react in different circumstances and guess their hidden attributes (pressure, important matches, consistency etc.). Staff reports can also help you there.

[RTHerringbone]

What do you mean with misjugded mentality?

Using a more Attacking Mentality when facing a more Defensive manager isn't always a good idea - you just play into their hands.

Conversely, when you play a "lesser" side but one managed by a coach with an Attacking philosophy, you shouldn't just expect your greater quality to override theirs.

Sometimes (often!) you need to make a concession in your tactical approach, to that of your opponent.

[Los_Culés]

I may be completely wrong, but does concentration have some influence there? Finishing, composure, but what about concentration and missing sitters?

[fraeyke]

Hmm this is an interesting point of view...

so basicly: the better your team is and the higher your reputation is: the less you should attack?

How can i create more space for myself against those teams then?

Most of the opposition use a 4-4-2 but some 4-2-3-1 ones come in on occasion..

If i play i good or better team is somethimes pull back one striker to the amc position and let him play as AMC A

I go standard then..

[RTHerringbone]

I may be completely wrong, but does concentration have some influence there? Finishing, composure, but what about concentration and missing sitters?

Yes, because it theoretically influences Anticipation and Decision Making too.

Add in Technique & Creativity too.

[fraeyke]

Yes, because it theoretically influences Anticipation and Decision Making too.

Add in Technique & Creativity too.

Ok lets put this in to test with zlatan:

Technique:18

finishing:18

anticipation: 16

creativity:16

decision:14

composure: 13

He is a experienced striker so pressure wont be the problem... he can be a bit lazy sometimes.. but i'm sure if he is in a lazy mood but a ball falls in front of his feet at 6 yard box... he will score 8.5 times out of 10

Here its 1-2 times out of 10.... i swear i'm not joking

[RTHerringbone]

Ok lets put this in to test with zlatan:

Technique:18

finishing:18

anticipation: 16

creativity:16

decision:14

composure: 13

He is a experienced striker so pressure wont be the problem... he can be a bit lazy sometimes.. but i'm sure if he is in a lazy mood but a ball falls in front of his feet at 6 yard box... he will score 8.5 times out of 10

Here its 1-2 times out of 10.... i swear i'm not joking

It needs context though, and that's what people miss.

Lovely attributes are all well and good, but how has he received the ball, where are the defenders, what time and space does he have?

People often assume that throwing money / attributes at a situation is enough to see you through, and whereas that might have been the case in this series before, it is now more strategic than ever before.

[fraeyke]

Yes i understand that... and i can only applaud and appreciate that the game becomes more and more realistic every year...

But really, The league 1 is a good league with good striker and good defenders... probably he will almost never have time and space (like in real life). So we can assume the defenders are at least in a close proximity. Also, a trough ball played by Verrati will probably be of a decent quality... Yet all that taken into account ibrahimovic still scores +20 goals against teams that sit back and keep the space small (thats what makes him one of the best strikers in the world).

But i'm affraid we are missing the bottem line here...

How can I, as a manager, influence the fact that my striker (lets forget about ibra and assume its all types of strikers ) misses those easy chances...

I've seens terrible misses in every situation: 1-1 with the keeper, a deep cross, a cross from the bye line, trough ball in the box, close headers, one time shots.... you name it.

Again, RTHerrinbone, thank you for taking your time to discuss this problem with me.. but trust me, im not one of those guys who goes complaining after 5 games in a season that the ME is broken or whatever they say...

I want to know how i can overcome this and take the time to read forums, blogs and guides...

So i'm sure i'm a little more than some person who throws money/ attributes in the situation and expect everything to go smooth...

[RTHerringbone]

So i'm sure i'm a little more than some person who throws money/ attributes in the situation and expect everything to go smooth...

I wasn't directing this at you, but the swathe of comments of this ilk that mostly pervade the General Discussion area

As per an earlier comment of mine, I would recommend just reducing your Mentality a bit and seeing what happens.

Create more space, more time, and then the football should flow a little better.

You have a high quality side and they don't need to force the issue in every game; indeed, against certain managers they need to step back and let inferior teams with grand designs blow themselves out.

[fraeyke]

Indeed, it was definatly not my intention of going that way..

Understood and i will try this out and hope this will bring forth some consistency...

thanks again

[Double0Seven]

From a guy who has his 6 finishing winger as top scorer and has a 15 finishing striker who frustrates me every game: Create more chances. I can't not help you with the fact that ibra is not doing his job. I'm sure others can explain this much better. But from my own experience you must look at creating chances before looking at why chances are not being converted. In terms of FM just listen to the tactical advice of RTH. Also drop the "over elkaar heen gaan". Aka overlap. You are giving your the opponents even more time to reorganize the defence because your wide players wait a bit longer for support. Lower tempo also doesn't help.

I have almost the same settings and against lesser sides you could drop the high line/hassle but KEEP control mentality. This still pushes your players a bit high up the pitch, they will also close down and play with a higher tempo. You will allow teams to have more time and space but not too much and just enough space behind them for you to make use of.

The best thing is that you will be less vulnerable to counter attacks or long balls over your defence and you will have more space behind their defenders.

If any of this doesn't make sense or is incorrect(I'm not a genius) then please someone correct me before I give this man wrong advice.

[aspink3]

I wasn't directing this at you, but the swathe of comments of this ilk that mostly pervade the General Discussion area

As per an earlier comment of mine, I would recommend just reducing your Mentality a bit and seeing what happens.

Create more space, more time, and then the football should flow a little better.

You have a high quality side and they don't need to force the issue in every game; indeed, against certain managers they need to step back and let inferior teams with grand designs blow themselves out.

I have taken these comments on board myself and it seems to have been an effective decision. Playing at home vs Forest who I expect to beat comfortably, I saw that their manager likes to play attacking and pressing football.

With that in mind, I set up with a counter mentalility and my striker scored a comfortable hat trick. As my players were better in all areas of the field, my defence waited for a mistake and my midfield moved the ball forward with pace allowing my striker acres of time to get in the right areas and produce the goals. Alternatively I would have set out to control vs Forest at home and would have been left frustrated when my striker missed a few chances under pressure. This is solid advice and seems to have had a positive impact on my strikers ability to convert chances. Still only early days though!

[fraeyke]

From a guy who has his 6 finishing winger as top scorer and has a 15 finishing striker who frustrates me every game: Create more chances. I can't not help you with the fact that ibra is not doing his job. I'm sure others can explain this much better. But from my own experience you must look at creating chances before looking at why chances are not being converted. In terms of FM just listen to the tactical advice of RTH. Also drop the "over elkaar heen gaan". Aka overlap. You are giving your the opponents even more time to reorganize the defence because your wide players wait a bit longer for support. Lower tempo also doesn't help.

I have almost the same settings and against lesser sides you could drop the high line/hassle but KEEP control mentality. This still pushes your players a bit high up the pitch, they will also close down and play with a higher tempo. You will allow teams to have more time and space but not too much and just enough space behind them for you to make use of.

The best thing is that you will be less vulnerable to counter attacks or long balls over your defence and you will have more space behind their defenders.

If any of this doesn't make sense or is incorrect(I'm not a genius) then please someone correct me before I give this man wrong advice.

THank for the tips and i'll take them into account..

About the creating chances: I really dont think that this is the problem... shot, shots on target and ccc's are high enough to make a claim of scoring at least some of them..

I think its more a 'player' matter.... if everything goes good and teammates are able to deliver the ball in a position for the striker to only calmly place it in the back of the net.. that has nothing to do with tactics tbh..

My right winger also is the one who scores most for me at the moment..

[fraeyke]

I have taken these comments on board myself and it seems to have been an effective decision. Playing at home vs Forest who I expect to beat comfortably, I saw that their manager likes to play attacking and pressing football.

With that in mind, I set up with a counter mentalility and my striker scored a comfortable hat trick. As my players were better in all areas of the field, my defence waited for a mistake and my midfield moved the ball forward with pace allowing my striker acres of time to get in the right areas and produce the goals. Alternatively I would have set out to control vs Forest at home and would have been left frustrated when my striker missed a few chances under pressure. This is solid advice and seems to have had a positive impact on my strikers ability to convert chances. Still only early days though!

Yeah i will look into this but this was against a team foolish enough to sally out against a much better opponent (beeing your team then).

How would you do it if its a manager that likes to sit deep, play narrow and hoof the ball away??

[aspink3]

THank for the tips and i'll take them into account..

About the creating chances: I really dont think that this is the problem... shot, shots on target and ccc's are high enough to make a claim of scoring at least some of them..

I think its more a 'player' matter.... if everything goes good and teammates are able to deliver the ball in a position for the striker to only calmly place it in the back of the net.. that has nothing to do with tactics tbh..

My right winger also is the one who scores most for me at the moment..

I would think that if the opposition are trying to contain a team of PSG's quality then your strikers will have very little time and space in the final third. I agree that the real class player should be doing much better (as I have experienced). My striker seemed much more composed when he was attacking space left by drawing the opposition further up field. I paired my AF with a DLF who seemed to tee him up in positions it would be nearly impossible to miss from

[fraeyke]

Yeah thats the whole problem.. :-)

I wish i could upload a video or something to show you what kind of chances have been missed.. :-)

Thats why i really think theres something wrong i'm doing with man managment or smthg... although i cant really say what exactly.. :-)

[Double0Seven]

THank for the tips and i'll take them into account..

About the creating chances: I really dont think that this is the problem... shot, shots on target and ccc's are high enough to make a claim of scoring at least some of them..

I think its more a 'player' matter.... if everything goes good and teammates are able to deliver the ball in a position for the striker to only calmly place it in the back of the net.. that has nothing to do with tactics tbh..

My right winger also is the one who scores most for me at the moment..

Hehehe the right winger. Good guy.

Against managers who park the bus I would just o the same 90 minutes. If they do that they are prolly a very bad side. They can't hang on 90 mins against all my attacks. Maybe add run at defence, drop deeper, play wider and do everything to create space. But this is easier said then done... This can be risky and even give them more space to attack. And just like IRL stuff happens and you still lose or draw.

[Torskus77]

I don't want you to take this comment out of context because compared to the other points that have been made it is almost irrelevant, but 13 for composure is not a good stat, and in my opinion composure is almost as important as finishing for 1 on 1's possibly even more so. Once he has scored one in a game his confidence will be soaring, and this could be the reason why he is bagging goals in bursts rather than a constant flow. If he has a poor determination stat, this could also lead to him flopping when you are behind.

However, please as I said take the other advice much more seriously than this, it's just a side thought, rather than put this right and all will be okay.

[Sussex Hammer]

RTHerringbone -

I see what you are saying but to be fair there is an issue with strikers and there has been since the last patch of FM13 bar one early patch in this version. In earlier patches of that game one on ones with balls through the middle were to be fair overpowered. It was easy to pick out a neat through ball to a striker who invariably scored. In later patches they basically nuked through balls and something also had been watered down on strikers as well.

In FM14 an early patch produced quite a wide variety of attacking play. There were some lovely cross field balls and some wonderful crosses that were finished beautifully with a head or foot. Strikers were also scoring quite nicely and in one game when I played counter attack I came back from 3-0 down to draw 3-3 with some lovely counter attacking play through to the strikers feet. But all that along with a lot of crosses being converted by wingers contributed to some extremely high scoring games which of course was considered highly unrealistic.

Since then, (for me anyway) the cross field balls have gone, tall strikers rarely get a head on the end of a cross and strikers movement seems very off and finishing even more so. In fact an awful lot of goals come from wide players hitting across the keeper. The angled shot is clearly more effective than a simple slide rule pass shot to the side of an onrushing goalkeeper.

Now you can say it's my tactics but my tactics and ideas worked just fine in the earlier patch although there were obviously some other horrendous issues. So then what it must be is that certain tactics don't work with this ME which kind of kicks footballing logic right into touch. Mentality - whilst I can agree with you to a certain extent that's not completely correct. I have played all mentalities and in my case strikers still finish as badly with one mentality compared with another. And not being able to break a team down whilst playing attacking or control against a poor team on a poor run of form is just warped footballing logic or at least it should be. Half the issue is that even when playing a counter attacking or defensive strategy when you do attack it always seems that the opposition are camped inside their area or that's how it seems. I can honestly say that it is as if to cover the clear defensive frailties in the game certain aspects of the attacking side have been nuked. It could be tempo. Tempo could certainly mean a striker rushes his chances but considering that tempo is a team instruction and not a player one how do you counteract that? If it is a high tempo causing striker issues then a high tempo should be considered useless.

My main striker at the moment is Jordan Rhodes considering Andy Carroll hasn't scored since patch one and keeps getting out jumped by dwarves!! Rhodes has Finishing 16, Composure 16, Concentration 16, Off Ball 16. He has however 12 goals out of 101 shots. 48 on target out of the 101. In fact my wide men who have far poorer shooting and finishing stats have higher percentages (that diagonal shot past the goalkeeper again). And the perfect example of this hidden issue I believe there is with strikers is this analysis below. I mean John Ruddy is a good keeper but not that good!!!

[kandersson]

RTHerringbone -

I see what you are saying but to be fair there is an issue with strikers and there has been since the last patch of FM13 bar one early patch in this version. In earlier patches of that game one on ones with balls through the middle were to be fair overpowered. It was easy to pick out a neat through ball to a striker who invariably scored. In later patches they basically nuked through balls and something also had been watered down on strikers as well.

In FM14 an early patch produced quite a wide variety of attacking play. There were some lovely cross field balls and some wonderful crosses that were finished beautifully with a head or foot. Strikers were also scoring quite nicely and in one game when I played counter attack I came back from 3-0 down to draw 3-3 with some lovely counter attacking play through to the strikers feet. But all that along with a lot of crosses being converted by wingers contributed to some extremely high scoring games which of course was considered highly unrealistic.

Since then, (for me anyway) the cross field balls have gone, tall strikers rarely get a head on the end of a cross and strikers movement seems very off and finishing even more so. In fact an awful lot of goals come from wide players hitting across the keeper. The angled shot is clearly more effective than a simple slide rule pass shot to the side of an onrushing goalkeeper.

Now you can say it's my tactics but my tactics and ideas worked just fine in the earlier patch although there were obviously some other horrendous issues. So then what it must be is that certain tactics don't work with this ME which kind of kicks footballing logic right into touch. Mentality - whilst I can agree with you to a certain extent that's not completely correct. I have played all mentalities and in my case strikers still finish as badly with one mentality compared with another. And not being able to break a team down whilst playing attacking or control against a poor team on a poor run of form is just warped footballing logic or at least it should be. Half the issue is that even when playing a counter attacking or defensive strategy when you do attack it always seems that the opposition are camped inside their area or that's how it seems. I can honestly say that it is as if to cover the clear defensive frailties in the game certain aspects of the attacking side have been nuked. It could be tempo. Tempo could certainly mean a striker rushes his chances but considering that tempo is a team instruction and not a player one how do you counteract that? If it is a high tempo causing striker issues then a high tempo should be considered useless.

My main striker at the moment is Jordan Rhodes considering Andy Carroll hasn't scored since patch one and keeps getting out jumped by dwarves!! Rhodes has Finishing 16, Composure 16, Concentration 16, Off Ball 16. He has however 12 goals out of 101 shots. 48 on target out of the 101. In fact my wide men who have far poorer shooting and finishing stats have higher percentages (that diagonal shot past the goalkeeper again). And the perfect example of this hidden issue I believe there is with strikers is this analysis below. I mean John Ruddy is a good keeper but not that good!!!

have you tried drill crosses? seems to me they're quite effective in this patch and I'm sure Carroll would finish a decent percentage of them.

I've experienced same issues as you with strikers though. My team always scores a lot, and now I've won three consecutives championships (with San Marino) opponents tend to sit deep and just defend. We tend to attack and score and win at very good rate... just not with the striker(s)... which is quite frustrating as that's what I like and try to do all the time!

[Sussex Hammer]

have you tried drill crosses? seems to me they're quite effective in this patch and I'm sure Carroll would finish a decent percentage of them.

I've experienced same issues as you with strikers though. My team always scores a lot, and now I've won three consecutives championships (with San Marino) opponents tend to sit deep and just defend. We tend to attack and score and win at very good rate... just not with the striker(s)... which is quite frustrating as that's what I like and try to do all the time!

Cheers I'll attempt a few games with drill although a lot of advice I received for Carroll was to float crosses for him which if you are going by what works in proper football they don't and they don't work in the game either!! Floating crosses won't allow the striker to get enough power. The problem is float (to head), drill (to feet) seems to be the way the instructions are in the game but where is drill to head? You can aim crosses where you want (in theory) but you can't ask the striker where to run!!

I'm not moaning because I am not winning as I am top of the Premier League at the time of writing but I am finding that I am having more success by adapting the tactic to the ME rather than adapting tactics as per logical football. I'll be told I am doing the wrong thing by that but that's what is working for me. I don't like that I'd rather do it the other way but there are so many issues that an awful lot of advice and tips you get are basically if you look deeper workarounds to the ME issues rather than footballing logic. Not being disrespectful in any way to RT Herringbone but the comment on mentality against smaller teams is just that. IRL you can batter teams into the ground with an attacking or control philosophy Man United did that for years and Man City did that last year. The teams City had a problem with last year were teams that had a go not teams who sat deep and tried to counter them.

Also probably the most used shape in real life football last year was a 4231 but with two DM's and a central midfield strata three, one in the middle and two out wide. That shape isn't even in the default tactics and if you do try and pull it off you need a supporting striker because attacking leaves him isolated no matter what mentality you use.

Anyway I am going off topic. My point on the picture above is not a one off. Keepers are making incredible saves from shots in the 6 yard box or penalty area which defy logic. Sure on occasions a keeper IRL pulls off a world class save but in the game we have keepers jumping like salmon at impossible angles to keep out goal bound shots and yet they fail miserably on shots across at a diagonal angle. Yes you could ask you striker to learn to hit across the keeper but again that's a workaround and doesn't help strikers missing easy chances in the 6 yard area.

[RTHerringbone]

Not being disrespectful in any way to RT Herringbone but the comment on mentality against smaller teams is just that. IRL you can batter teams into the ground with an attacking or control philosophy Man United did that for years and Man City did that last year. The teams City had a problem with last year were teams that had a go not teams who sat deep and tried to counter them.

The bold bit is sort of my point. In the game, you do need to adapt to the approach of the opposition, irrespective of whether or not you are "better" than them. If you play with a Control / Attacking Mentality against a team doing the same, then it is likely that goals will flow - for both sides.

I kind of agree with you about the opposite of that situation though in a pure footballing sense.

If Man City, Juventus, Paris-SG or Atletico all played an aggressive Attacking style in real life (which of course they don't all do), and they played a cautious, defensive and inferior side, you would expect them to get a result more often than not, and often with a few goals too.

However, if that approach "just worked" in FM, I for one would consider it a bit simplistic, and a bit boring. It remains all too easy to build squads which are better balanced and technically superior to the squads built by the AI. Human players have a massive advantage in that respect, so if it was just a case of setting an Attacking Mentality and getting your superior players on the pitch, then I wouldn't play the game any more.

I like the fact that the AI's footballing intelligence is growing, and I like the fact that we have to think a bit more about what we are doing. FM is a football simulation, and is effectively a strategy game because of that.

[RTHerringbone]

RTHerringbone -

I see what you are saying but to be fair there is an issue with strikers and there has been since the last patch of FM13 bar one early patch in this version.....Now you can say it's my tactics but my tactics and ideas worked just fine in the earlier patch although there were obviously some other horrendous issues. So then what it must be is that certain tactics don't work with this ME which kind of kicks footballing logic right into touch.

I strongly disagree with the bold bit here. What it might mean (not "must") is that you just haven't figured out how to replicate "certain tactics"?

There are a load of threads in here showing how different styles are working. Cleon's Defensive one is probably a key recent one, because it not only shows that you can use that Mentality to shut out goals, he successfully shows how "plastic" the Mentality descriptions are because he scores a bundle of goals and attacks wonderfully and efficiently. "Plastic" is a term wwfan uses a lot to describe mentality. Just because a description says one thing, it shouldn't make you think that it forces a stringent style of play.

That perhaps clouds the way you think that "big" sides shouldn't use Mentalities further down the Mentality scale?

[llama3]

fraekye - just a thought - Ibrahimovic to me seems wasted as a False Nine. Whereas he screams "CF(S)" to me. He has the technique of a DLF, Physical attributes of a TM, and the goalscoring ability of a Poacher - exactly the description of a CF. A F9 will drop deep then look to run at the defence or play in through-balls, whereas, Ibrahimovic is not as suited for that. He will still link play very well as a CF(S), but will stay a bit higher during moves too, which might give Cavani more space to score goals, by staying high and occupying another defender.

[phnompenhandy]

I've got a striker problem, but it's entirely unconnected to this thread's discussion so far.

I have one striker (AF/Poacher) who's good in every respect bar one - he gets himself offside 10-15 times every match!

He even acquired the PPM 'beats the offside trap'- to no avail.

No other striker has this amount of offsides, so I don't think it's my set-up.

Any thoughts as to how I can cut them down?

[kandersson]

Cheers I'll attempt a few games with drill although a lot of advice I received for Carroll was to float crosses for him which if you are going by what works in proper football they don't and they don't work in the game either!! Floating crosses won't allow the striker to get enough power. The problem is float (to head), drill (to feet) seems to be the way the instructions are in the game but where is drill to head? You can aim crosses where you want (in theory) but you can't ask the striker where to run!!

I'm not moaning because I am not winning as I am top of the Premier League at the time of writing but I am finding that I am having more success by adapting the tactic to the ME rather than adapting tactics as per logical football. I'll be told I am doing the wrong thing by that but that's what is working for me. I don't like that I'd rather do it the other way but there are so many issues that an awful lot of advice and tips you get are basically if you look deeper workarounds to the ME issues rather than footballing logic. Not being disrespectful in any way to RT Herringbone but the comment on mentality against smaller teams is just that. IRL you can batter teams into the ground with an attacking or control philosophy Man United did that for years and Man City did that last year. The teams City had a problem with last year were teams that had a go not teams who sat deep and tried to counter them.

Also probably the most used shape in real life football last year was a 4231 but with two DM's and a central midfield strata three, one in the middle and two out wide. That shape isn't even in the default tactics and if you do try and pull it off you need a supporting striker because attacking leaves him isolated no matter what mentality you use.

Anyway I am going off topic. My point on the picture above is not a one off. Keepers are making incredible saves from shots in the 6 yard box or penalty area which defy logic. Sure on occasions a keeper IRL pulls off a world class save but in the game we have keepers jumping like salmon at impossible angles to keep out goal bound shots and yet they fail miserably on shots across at a diagonal angle. Yes you could ask you striker to learn to hit across the keeper but again that's a workaround and doesn't help strikers missing easy chances in the 6 yard area.

I think I can relate to some extent, though after all I (try to) remember it's 'only' a (fantastic) video game. Since earlier CM versions the key for me has been finding a compromise between what makes sense in real life football, what works in the game and what I like. Eventually I tend to find an adequate balance between this factors.

Even in this year's game I've come to a point that my team plays according to my desired style and wins lots of games/trophies. I also feel the game does a very good job replicating many aspects and roles of real life football. For example F9 and Half Backs are a joy to watch. Attacking midfielders now attempt more dribbles in the central parts of the pitch which is something I was very keen to see.

The one thing I feel is being somewhat 'downgraded' this year are the poachers/advanced forward types, maybe because they were so overpowered in the past (FM12 comes to mind). Which I think is a shame because in modern football even the most defensive teams play relatively high defensive lines and most use the offside trap (especially in Italy where I play most of my FM due to the San Marino challenge) so there should be 'some' space to exploit. But in my experience it's become extremely hard for this type of striker to beat the defensive line, or to beat the defender off the dribble, or to score goals for that matter! Wingers, midfielders and even full backs all seem to have better chances to do that than poachers.

Obviously this is only my opinion and experience. I reckon I have a decent understanding of real life football and experience with FM, plus I tend to do a good job with squad building and man management which is often major reason of my success. Understanding the ME has never really been my forté though

[Torskus77]

The bold bit is sort of my point. In the game, you do need to adapt to the approach of the opposition, irrespective of whether or not you are "better" than them. If you play with a Control / Attacking Mentality against a team doing the same, then it is likely that goals will flow - for both sides.

I kind of agree with you about the opposite of that situation though in a pure footballing sense.

If Man City, Juventus, Paris-SG or Atletico all played an aggressive Attacking style in real life (which of course they don't all do), and they played a cautious, defensive and inferior side, you would expect them to get a result more often than not, and often with a few goals too.

However, if that approach "just worked" in FM, I for one would consider it a bit simplistic, and a bit boring. It remains all too easy to build squads which are better balanced and technically superior to the squads built by the AI. Human players have a massive advantage in that respect, so if it was just a case of setting an Attacking Mentality and getting your superior players on the pitch, then I wouldn't play the game any more.

I like the fact that the AI's footballing intelligence is growing, and I like the fact that we have to think a bit more about what we are doing. FM is a football simulation, and is effectively a strategy game because of that.

I didn't play FM13, to much going on in my life at the time, but I feel that the bold bit is where FM12 got too, it was just far to easy to build a strong squad, and just win with the most simple of tactics. Poachers were way to strong, if you had someone with pace, off the ball skills and composure you just needed to thread the ball through for him in whatever way you wanted and he would score a ridiculous amount of goals. I had fun playing it, but I had a long term save that I just gave up on after about 15 years cos I had won everything time and time again with little Walsall who were now as big as Man United.

I still want to achieve that, but with a bit more of a challenge, this year has been, I finally got Walsall in to Europe via the league places, only Uefa Cup or whatever it is nowadays, but I felt a great sense of achievement for doing it. I have yet to win a major trophy yet, but I am getting there, just lost in the semi's of the League Cup and was gutted, but it is more enjoyable than wining the quadruple every single season with ease (for me anyway)