Tele Santana Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 5 fouls, the last one clearly from behind to avoid a counter attack. Is he the new butcher Fernandinho? No yellows. Just asking... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterUsernameHere Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yes, Messi is a butcher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Let's not exaggerate! Not even Fernandinho is a butcher although he was yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I don´t think Fernandinho was. PMLF. Actually, I don´t see anything wrong with Brazil tactics yesterday like some of the hatefuls of this forum have said. Fernandinho did commit a lot of fouls, at least one deserved a caution, but people seem to really believe only Brazil or Latin American teams will do what it takes to win. I didn´t see as much violence in his fouls than any of Zuniga´s foul. The first one on Hulk by itself should have been a direct red card. By the way, take a look at the Italians playing for most of their history, the English, the Germans and so on so forth. Always using tactical fouls. And to say Brazil was the violent team against the Chileans or tried to get James injured out of the game is ludicrous. About Messi, of course is irony, just making the point. But yes, he deserved a yellow in at least two fouls today. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsenalFan7 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Messi's world cup, allowed to do whatever he likes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I don´t think Fernandinho was. PMLF. Actually, I don´t see anything wrong with Brazil tactics yesterday like some of the hatefuls of this forum have said. Fernandinho did commit a lot of fouls, at least one deserved a caution, but people seem to really believe only Brazil or Latin American teams will do what it takes to win. I didn´t see as much violence in his fouls than any of Zuniga´s foul. The first one on Hulk by itself should have been a direct red card.By the way, take a look at the Italians playing for most of their history, the English, the Germans and so on so forth. Always using tactical fouls. And to say Brazil was the violent team against the Chileans or tried to get James injured out of the game is ludicrous. About Messi, of course is irony, just making the point. But yes, he deserved a yellow in at least two fouls today. Cheers, Tele I didn't mean that there was anything wrong with Brazil's tactics, I just meant to defend Fernandinho there. The problem with Brazil's tactics were not the tactics per se, just the fact Scolari miscalculated the risks (Colombia fighting back), but I think teams have to do whatever they need to win games, I couldn't care less about 'jogo bonito'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 I was not talking about you, PMLF, although I understand you don´t want Brazil to win... TBF I don´t like Scolari as well. I think his knowledge of the game is obsolete and he doesn´t create alternatives for his team, although I reckon his abilities as a motivator. I was talking more about the karma thing that people were spreading, like it was justifiable for the vicious knee on Neymar because Brazil and Fernandinho were targeting to get Rodriguez out of the game. But the issue here is to see things as they are. Definitely Messi deserved a yellow today. None given. By the way, I am a huge fan of his and I truly wish Argentina reach the final. Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jeroen Thijssen Posted July 5, 2014 SI Staff Share Posted July 5, 2014 Mes is the Dutch word for knife. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I was not talking about you, PMLF, although I understand you don´t want Brazil to win... I don't want Brazil to win, but I have no problem with the tactics Brazil use. Brazil might be annoying, etc... but there is no doubt Brazil are playing to win, and this is always a good thing. TBF I don´t like Scolari as well. I think his knowledge of the game is obsolete and he doesn´t create alternatives for his team, although I reckon his abilities as a motivator. Yes, Scolari is awful nowadays, as Palmeiras fans learned when he relegated them to Série B a couple of years ago. He has no plan B and he is way too loyal to his own players, which si detrimental to the squad as there is no internal competition, etc.. I was talking more about the karma thing that people were spreading, like it was justifiable for the vicious knee on Neymar because Brazil and Fernandinho were targeting to get Rodriguez out of the game. Yes, the karma thing is silly, I think the biggest issue was the referee being too lenient. But the issue here is to see things as they are. Definitely Messi deserved a yellow today. None given. By the way, I am a huge fan of his and I truly wish Argentina reach the final.Cheers, Tele Yes, same problem as before, referee too lenient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 What you talking about? Messi doesn't foul. He's a true gent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 He is. And he fouls, like anyone else. In this match, 5 times alone. Two of them from behind, deliberately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 jmr>>>>* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Messi is an absolute genius. Besides, it's obviously karma for all the tackles onto him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Agree with you. Genious, way above any other player in today´s game. But still, deserved the yellow. I´m not into the karma talk tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Haven't watched a whole lot of matches, but from reading it seems Messi's only adopting to how the officials are officiating games really. Apparently this wasn't the only match in which there was no imminent risk of being booked when doing what is referred to as tactical foul. Not good for sides that are great at switching from defense to attack in an instant, but there you go. For what it is worth, and disregarding any rule changes or guidelines outlined for the officials (remember that once upon a crime a butcher tackle from behind was no straight red), the number of bookings has been on steady decline ever since 2006ish. What used to be four yellow cards on average for many Cups per match is now less than three: 1994: 4.25 yellows per match 1998: 3.91 yellows per match 2002: 4.44 yellows per match 2006: 5.39 yellows per match 2010: 3.77 yellows per match 2014: 2.95 yellows per match Considering that the vast numbers of matches now are wrapped (60 of 64), that number is unlikely to change much. The number of reds is lowlier too, if Wiki isn't off completely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:FIFA_World_Cup_disciplinary_records Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tele Santana Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Svenc, These are great stats. In my opinion, the last World Cup played in Europe, in Germany, was a specially tough one (and the volume of cautions show). I also think that the decrease of yellows is an influence of European standards as opposed to South American, where more fouls are whistled and less physical play allowed. I was thinking on a post the other day to talk about this. How European standards become the world standard in football. Another example is field dimension. Maracanã, in Brazil, once had a much bigger field, and such most of the major stadia. FIFA requires current dimensions to be narrower and smaller. As for today, Messis´s fouls weren´t just tactical. Two of them were from behind to avoid counter attacks. From behind makes all the difference here. Still, you´d have to watch again all the matches to see if the stars are presented with a different standard by the referees. Just like the flopping situation in NBA with Lebron and over-protection of stars in detriment of regular players, when it comes to what one can and can´t do on court. That reminds of the infamous phrase by Samuel Etoo when asked if he felt he was less recognized than Ronaldinho Gaucho while playing at Barça and he replied: Maybe because I am not called Etozinho. :-D Cheers, Tele Cheers, Tele Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillsminnow Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Cheers, Tele! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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