What's wrong here with my Port Vale side?

[Lord Dakier]

So after being away from my Port Vale save for such a long time I decided to get back into the gist of things however, it's not been going good guys. I stopped playing due to buying some pretty poor players in Thiaguo and Deveric. Some major let downs in ability along with star players like Kabouni and Casado being injured half the season. Morale is low, games are numerous due to qualifying for Europe and we're in trouble obviously!

I've been changing tactics around a bit and started using Steaton's Invicible tactic over my own to see if the problem persists and it has. One thing to note is my defence isn't really too bad in all honesty but we lack a real goalscorer. Paulo Dybala just can't seem to do it like he has for the last 5 years and Antonio Sergio is still a year off replacing him I think. Due to money limitations and lack of potential loanees we are also struggling to keep the side fit through cups and Europe never mind Premier League.

I've attached some screens and the save file to my OneDrive so people can have a bit more of a detailed look;

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=413AF5CE7D36B3BB&id=413AF5CE7D36B3BB%211163

Suggestions are welcome,

Thanks

[kris0710]

I am no tactically expert but things i see you doing that i wouldn't are:

-An attacking mentality with a TI of drop deeper

-CWB attacking both sides leaving your dropped deeper CB really exposed. I always have a DM if i play four at the back with the full backs as CWB

-Are you not very congested in the middle of the park with two IF and then the AP?

- I would certainly look at adding 'shoot less often' for some of the players, from the shots against Chelsea you are having very few efforts from a good range, either from a tight angle or long range. For someone with a poacher att in the team you need to be creating chances in and around the box.

[Lord Dakier]

Well like I say I'm using Steaton's tactic but to be honest I want to rebuild a new tactic a defensively solid one for sure, but is it possible to be defensively solid and still properly attack with a 4231?

[maztheplaya]

Some of your tactical instructions are contradictory. Drop Dreeper and Hassle Opponents, Hassle makes your team close down a lot more and it defeats the purpose of Droping Deeper. Attacking Mentality and Drop Deeper, Attacking Mentality raise the Defensive line. Pass Into Space doesnt work with Attacking Mentality since you expect your opponent to sit deep and you try and get as many players forward as possible.

2 IFs, 1 AP(A) and and a Poacher will kinda fight for the same spaces, its already congested as kris0710 said, imagine if your opponent also has 2 CMs or 1 DM there, plus the 4 defenders. I would say you should have at least one of your wingers actually be a winger and not cut inside. So it gives your attacks width and you dont need a CWB to leave you vulnerable in defense.

Going Attacking against Chelsea isnt the best idea.

And your Striker is quite bad for teh BPL. 9 Anticipation, 8 Composure, 11 Decisions, 13 Off The Ball not attributes that will get you goals in the BPL. And a Poacher might get Isolated at times in the 4-2-3-1.

[Lord Dakier]

Paolo Dybala is my main striker and his stats are better than Deveric's and Sergio's, but as I stated this formation was just temp. I don't want to use other peoples formations I want to use my own. I just have no idea where to start.

[maztheplaya]

Paolo Dybala is my main striker and his stats are better than Deveric's and Sergio's, but as I stated this formation was just temp. I don't want to use other peoples formations I want to use my own. I just have no idea where to start.

My bad on that.

Read the stickies. And take inspiration from real life. What team/manager you like and try and get a setup similar to that.

[Lord Dakier]

Well I want a Jose Mourinho style set up. Defensively solid, decent at holding the ball and most of all cutting edge attack.

Oliveira my RB is wanted by the big guns and for good reason so I need to utilise him against my opponenets. I'm looking for a lot of suggestions more than anything I guess.

[kris0710]

Have a look of the thread here about the Man Utd 3 at the back. I am using a version of it, it is early days, but it makes my full backs vital to all transitions of play.

You need to look in depth at your players, play the way that suits them. Given you want to play like JM i would give the threads here a good long look, you will pick up tonnes of hints and tips.

[kris0710]

Well like I say I'm using Steaton's tactic but to be honest I want to rebuild a new tactic a defensively solid one for sure, but is it possible to be defensively solid and still properly attack with a 4231?

Most certainly it is. I can't think of any tactics i have played with that have the 'attacking' mentality but all are good counter attacking styles of play. I have recently done a decent job with Berwick in Scottish League Two playing four at the back and three DM's yet we still ended up highest scorers in the league, creating plenty of chances. My left back even ended up top scoring for my team and 3rd/4th highest in the league. He was my top assister too!

[Lord Dakier]

I've updated my One Drive with my recent game against Chelsea in the 2nd leg where we win 2-0 but lose 4-3 on aggregate. My new system seemed very effective defensively.

EDIT - I've played again and this time found myself in an embarrassing 1-0 defeat to Blackburn. Funny as I only conceded once I moved from defence to attack but at 80mins with 2 shots all game I thought it may of been worth it.

[Lord Dakier]

Most certainly it is. I can't think of any tactics i have played with that have the 'attacking' mentality but all are good counter attacking styles of play. I have recently done a decent job with Berwick in Scottish League Two playing four at the back and three DM's yet we still ended up highest scorers in the league, creating plenty of chances. My left back even ended up top scoring for my team and 3rd/4th highest in the league. He was my top assister too!

Sorry I missed this post. The system I have is defensively solid but I'm using a 41221 with wingers, dm and 2 cms yet now we're struggling to really attack in advanced areas. How ideally should I look to carry the ball from midfield to the final third or should I just go direct and try and cover the problem?

[Torskus77]

Possibly the most unhelpful post ever coming up (I am usually a helpful poster or try to be at least) the biggest problem I can see is that you are Port Vale, even in a fantasy world, destined for failure :-) Walsall F.C

Seriously though, I would ditch Steaton's tactic, it is crazy in my opinion if it is the one I am thinking of, I'd imagine you'd need some very good players to make that work long term. Why don't you have a think about how you would like your team to play, view your squad, assess strengths and weaknesses and go from there, then maybe we can advise more.

[Lord Dakier]

I'd of played the Saddlers if there facilities was a bit better to be honest. I went with Port Vale cause they're still local-ish (WBA fan) and have a large stadium.

Well I know where I'm strong and where I'm weak I'm just unsure how I go in regards to that. For example my LB is pretty useless but he's best at being a CWB so really I should be trying to get him that role as he's more attacking than defensive. I know the system I want compared to my players.

GK - Standard defensive keeper who will look to feed the ball into open areas up the pitch

LB-CWB - Thiagao is bad but I have no one else available to me and he's much more attacking, mind you he has a decent shot from distance. Ideally I want him just in a support role

CBx2/D - I went them both covering my anchorman and watching players that are running into the box. Set both to cover maybe?

RB-FB/A - Oliveira my RB and best player is a master of his trades and I want him in all areas of the game yet he's a FB so I set him to attack

DM/A - Vera is pretty decent defensively and having him there stopped a leaky defence but nullified an already struggling attack

CM-DPL/S Veretout is comfortable on the ball and so I use him to command the middle as my PM

CM-B2B This position is one I struggle with I'm not sure what I want here a B2B or just an attacking to really push the centre

AML-IF/S Correa has been in my team for years and although he's getting on a bit now I've known him long enough to see that IF/S is his best position

AMR-W/A We have Wawryzniak who excels at pacing up the side of the pitch and offering multiple choices

ST-F9 Is a position I'm really struggling with. I'd like the CF to be able to command the area or perhaps the AF to play of the wingers so I'm not sure.

I've updated my one drive with the new save file and the new formation I've been using since after the first Chelsea game. It's quite solid defensively but lacks in attack.

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=413AF5CE7D36B3BB&id=413AF5CE7D36B3BB!1163

[Torskus77]

You were probably better off choosing Vale, I have really struggled with my Walsall save at times this year, I'm a top 4 team now (2nd last season) but yet to win a trophy as of yet. Been a struggle.

Looking at the 4-2-3-1 tactic you posted up, I am quite surprised it is so solid, as it looks quite vulnerable at first glance with 2 CWB. The overall set up isn't a bad one though, although poacher isn't a great role for a lone striker even with an AP behind him. In an ideal world your left full back would be on a support role, and possibly the left sided inside forward an attack role, although I've had some success with 2 support roles on the flanks. I like to have one winger in my side rather than both IF, but that's a personal preference, and obviously depends on players you have. I find the winger role plays better than an Inside forward overall, not sure why they just seems to make the runs between the full back and center back better.

Looking at the set up in your post above, looks a bit more balanced set up. I like either F9, DLF (s) or CF (s) as your striker role, depending on the player really. F9 is a great role, although I find they shoot a lot when they have great options running beyond them and could slip them in.

I notice in the 4-2-3-1 tactic you play a very aggressive strategy, Attacking, mentality might be worth dropping it down to control and slow things down a little, may be that you are getting the ball forward to quickly and over crowding. Recently, I have found Attacking mentality to be far more useful for away games, I have to slow things down and be a bit more patient at home to get the goals I need. If you are solid, then this is good, you don't need to score many goals to win games, so with a bit of work you could have a very useful set up.

[RTHerringbone]

Lord Dakier - what Mentality and Fluidity are you using? Any Player or Team Instructions? I can't access your link at work.

In terms of Roles and Duties, I agree with quite a few of Torskus77's points - note I'm commenting on the typed out second example.

Firstly, the way your full backs are set means your flanks are weak points, especially on your right side where you have two Attack Duties.

An Anchor Man won't be inclined to influence the width of your central defensive pairing, which means there will be space down either side.

You have a few options here, including:

i) Drop the AML/R to ML/R. You can edit the Wide Midfielder Role to behave like an IF. The benefit of doing this is that the players will track back to ML/R, which will give more defensive cover out wide

ii) Perhaps consider using a Half Back at DM. This will better allow you to keep Attack Duties at full back, as your DCs will be split wide when the Half Back drops deep, affording some flank coverage

iii) Adjust the set up so it isn't quite so Attacking at the back. Common basic practise is to have a Support Duty behind an Attack Duty. This will translate to better balance. The Support Duty won't get as high up the pitch as early as an Attack Duty player, so you'll be less susceptible to a pass into space behind you

From an offensive point of view, it is hard to see where the goals will come from. The False Nine is a great Role, but really needs to be coupled in some form with a guy who attacks the space that the False Nine creates. In your proposed system, the DLP and B2B may be arriving too late. The Winger will tend to stay wide, whereas the IF will drift inside when on the ball, but his Support Duty sees him play more cautiously.

Again, you have several options which are not limited to the below It also depends on what you do with your DM Role given the points above:

i) If you use an Anchor, you have a really strong midfield platform. He'll allow you to be "braver" in midfield. Firstly, you could look to see the difference between a DLP (S) and AP (S). You should notice an AP play a bit higher up pitch, which will help to bridge the gap to your lone striker

ii) With an Anchor or suitably defensive Role at DM, you can look to tweak the PIs of a B2B Role to get him in and around the box more often. Alternatively, you could experiment with a CM (A) whose ability to attack the box is probably the most impressive of all MC Roles - but bear in mind that you may want to consider the Role / Duty given to his CM partner, plus the Duty of the full back on the same side as the CM (A) to give sufficient cover when the CM (A) goes forward

iii) In terms of pure thrust from the wide men, consider swapping the Duties you have assigned. If you do this, you should notice that the Winger crosses earlier. If that is the case, you may want to revise your ST Role

iv) I don't think you want a False Nine. From the description, it sounds like you want a bit of an all rounder who can hold up play but also be an attacking reference point. This would tend to equate to a Complete Forward or DLF. Try and experiment with the forward options available and don't be too concerned by the coaches recommended best position for a player

[Lord Dakier]

I've stopped using the 4231 a while back and am using a 451. I mentioned it a while back.

Well I'll use a HB in the DM, and throw in AP rather than DLP. What's an attacking winder do over a supporting one? That's one thing that's always confused me.

I play defensive mentality with a balanced fluidity. I really don't understand the fluidness, I've even read the long post stickied above this before I got lost in the text. I just need one sentence detailing the basics of what it does. My understanding of it is that it's how the areas in your team will support one another i.e more fluid = more cover whereas rigid is more everyone doing their own job.

[Torskus77]

An attacking winger tends to get forward much quicker, this can sometimes be a bit to quickly when they are in the AML/R strata in my opinion depending on what you want him to do of course. The support winger still gets forward quite quickly when played in the advanced winger position, but not as quick, and will put some crosses in from a little deeper where as the attacking version tends to head towards the byline. I've had success with both, but overall prefer the support winger, the still make those nice little runs in between the full back and the center back, in fact they tend to time them better in my opinion.

Using a a defensive mentality, personally I'd prefer a CM (a) to a B2B midfielder. although the b2b midfielder will get forward, it wont be enough on a defensive mentality in my opinion. My experience is a CM (a) especially on lower mentalities plays more like I'd expect a b2b midfielder too. I am pretty sure RTH has covered some of this above better than I could so apologies for that, and I'd listen to him more than myself, these are just some of my experiences.

As for fluidity. I always used balanced philosophy, because it basically uses the roles to decide the mentality of your players. I liked the thought of my roles having a greater impact if that makes sense. However over time, I have realised you have to get the roles pretty spot on using Balanced, or you can have some pretty large gaps appear. Not to say it can't work, I have had some lovely tactics using balanced. However more recently I have fallen in love with Rigid and Very Rigid. For an example, Full back/wing backs on an attack duty on balanced tend to get forward very quickly, which can be good obviously depending on your set up. Since switching to Rigid though, I have noticed they still get forward nicely, but it's more selective when there is space to move in too and it seems appropriate for them to get forward. All depends what you want really.

[Lord Dakier]

Yeah I'll stick with the CM/A then as it's worked well last two games. I've picked up two decent wins still need to somehow get a bit better possession and attack though I guess that'll come with better players and more confidence in the team.