Ridiculous asking prices for youngsters.

[7hegam3]

I am managing Southampton, and interested in signing this 16 year old I found in second devision of France league.

He is valued at 40K and tried all sort of offers ... the club only accepted the offer when I made 25m+ bid ... which is stupid and ridiculous for a 16 year old.

Now that I think about it ... all the transfers I have made are 3 to 4 times the value of the player ... is there something broken in the game?

Thanks.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

It's the way it has been done because it was 'too easy' to sign youngsters in previous instalments.

If you wait until they sign pro, then wait say 6-8 months you can usually sign a few of them for their proper prices around 1-2million.

I don't think the EPPP fee has been implemented for domestic transfers either, so that's the way to go for now.

[Bruce Drundrige]

I put ridiculous transfer fees on players I don't want to sign but I do agree that those fees are rarely as high as are posted on here. Thing is, if he's a proper wonderkid and they don't need to sell then why wouldn't they see how high you'll go?

[abhid30007]

whats ridiculous is that we can be sure that particular 16 year old is going to be a STAR with proper tutoring and training

[7hegam3]

It's the way it has been done because it was 'too easy' to sign youngsters in previous instalments.

If you wait until they sign pro, then wait say 6-8 months you can usually sign a few of them for their proper prices around 1-2million.

I don't think the EPPP fee has been implemented for domestic transfers either, so that's the way to go for now.

Oh, didn't know it was made that way.

And yes, 1-2million sounds reasonable for youngsters because if they end up being flop atleast you dont lose much. But 25m is ridiculous.

[7hegam3]

I put ridiculous transfer fees on players I don't want to sign but I do agree that those fees are rarely as high as are posted on here. Thing is, if he's a proper wonderkid and they don't need to sell then why wouldn't they see how high you'll go?

He might be a wonderkid but how does that club know? I mean, how can anyone know he will be a good player later?

[7hegam3]

whats ridiculous is that we can be sure that particular 16 year old is going to be a STAR with proper tutoring and training

So anytime a club doesn't accept offers means the player is a star? It is a shame, because we as players don't know which player is going to be a star, it should be the same for the AI. If AI is putting ridiculous prices on their players just because he is a future star means it is we are playing at a disadvantage. Which is a shame.

[Gary_Parker]

So anytime a club doesn't accept offers means the player is a star? It is a shame, because we as players don't know which player is going to be a star, it should be the same for the AI. If AI is putting ridiculous prices on their players just because he is a future star means it is we are playing at a disadvantage. Which is a shame.

No, not a star exactly, just a player that the club feels will benefit them longer term. There are those that will go on to become the best players and those who will be solid professionals, either way the club doesn't want to part with them unless a ridiculous offer is made. Which is exactly what the user does when the AI comes bidding for their young players too.

[stevie_G_32201]

It's their way of saying he isn't for sale unless you make an offer too good to refuse, with the amount in question 25m you said being that offer.

[Sven.]

So anytime a club doesn't accept offers means the player is a star? It is a shame, because we as players don't know which player is going to be a star, it should be the same for the AI. If AI is putting ridiculous prices on their players just because he is a future star means it is we are playing at a disadvantage. Which is a shame.

You also know that the player will probably be a star because else you wouldn't be trying so hard to buy him and even bid 25m on him. The AI has no advantage. They often don't see the potential of future stars. In this case they saw it.

[Kojak123]

He might be a wonderkid but how does that club know? I mean, how can anyone know he will be a good player later?

You seem to assume that he will be a good player for whatever reason (good stats, good attributes, good whatever) so maybe the selling club also has reason to think he will be a good player...

[7hegam3]

No, not a star exactly, just a player that the club feels will benefit them longer term. There are those that will go on to become the best players and those who will be solid professionals, either way the club doesn't want to part with them unless a ridiculous offer is made. Which is exactly what the user does when the AI comes bidding for their young players too.

Whenever the AI bids for my player it is always half his value, and if I ask for his value they withdraw. AI never pays good for the players I have.

[7hegam3]

You also know that the player will probably be a star because else you wouldn't be trying so hard to buy him and even bid 25m on him. The AI has no advantage. They often don't see the potential of future stars. In this case they saw it.

My scout says he will be 4 star player. Reason I went up to 25m because the player was values at 50k and when I bit 2m and they rejected I was curious. Because I had already bid way higher than the value. So every 2 weeks I would offer a bid (ofcourse with no intention of buying because I cannot afford it). Until they accepted the 25m bid. And the player was asking for a 1200 wage.

[Cougar2010]

Whenever the AI bids for my player it is always half his value, and if I ask for his value they withdraw. AI never pays good for the players I have.

AI club makes a low bid > human player gets annoyed and negotiates a much higher price because he doesn't want to sell > AI club take the hint and look elsewhere.

Human player makes a low bid > AI club negotiates to a much higher price > Human player gets annoyed that the AI club won't accept the offer.

See the difference?

[isignedupfornorealreason]

AI club makes a low bid > human player gets annoyed and negotiates a much higher price because he doesn't want to sell > AI club take the hint and look elsewhere.

Human player makes a low bid > AI club negotiates to a much higher price > Human player gets annoyed that the AI club won't accept the offer.

See the difference?

Looks like you didn't see the difference.

Half value vs ON value or higher is more of a low bid vs reasonable opening bid.

[Cougar2010]

Looks like you didn't see the difference.

Half value vs ON value or higher is more of a low bid vs reasonable opening bid.

Makes no odds and this has come up many times before.

No one in their right mind makes an opening bid on value, thats a basic rule of buying & selling. The value is only a guide based on his contract while a scout will give you his opinion of the range that would be accepted (You should start your offers at the bottom or below that range).

You can also set an asking price for your players which should be well above what you are prepared to sell for leaving an allowance for being knocked down in price which you should expect to happen. The AI will then take that into account when they bid for your players, note though they will start low as you should.

Personally speaking the transfer system works perfectly well for the most part, the issues come from some users not understanding it or making any attempt to.

[Kenco]

The player in question may have just signed a new contract, which is one reason they will reject offers. The best thing to do is move on to other targets but keep him on your shortlist and come back to try again in a few months. Or go to the media and declare interest in an effort to unsettle him.

[Torminator]

The value of the players as show is the "market value". Market value is the perceived value of the market (no rocket science here). This means that the real value (the value of the contract he is under) is almost always lower than that. Its not so strange that teams bit more towards the contract value instead of the market value. I see the market value more as an upper bound, than its fair value. So i think that if i can get an offer higher than its market value, i am selling at a premium.

I do agree that the AI doesnt follow this logic and wants x5 or more its market value. I just interpret that as "not willing to sell" so i stop offering.

Makes the whole experience a lot more enjoyable en realistic.

[Cougar2010]

The value of the players as show is the "market value". Market value is the perceived value of the market (no rocket science here).

The value shown for a player is NOT the market value.

[Parker]

Here are my two main issues with this. It's not a matter of doubling the value for a bid, it's that sometimes these teams want 10 or 15 times the players value for a 17 year old. This isn't just for big clubs, but for smaller clubs as well. I found a 17 year old fullback from Austria who plays for Red Bull Salzburg. He's valued at 300k, so I bid 2M for him, and it was rejected out of hand. Eventually, after increasing the values, they laid out an asking price of 8M, plus other fees, plus a percentage of next sale. I have yet to see in real life a club like that hold out for that high a fee.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

In general there is very little to no reporting of failed approaches for players who are not household names, it's always tough to make the comparison between FM & real life because a lot of what we see or do in FM goes on under the radar in the real world. There are also stages in the transfer process that we do not have, in your Salzburg example scouts or other club representatives would have done the groundwork to assess the viability of a deal & in that case probably reported that it's not worth pursuing with any attempts to strike a deal.

Is the EPP plan being implemented in 15? There was a transfer the other day where a club invoked that right and pay on a per game basis.

Or is that already in? I haven't seen it because youngsters aren't interested in leaving pre-contract even to United/Barcelona half the times.

[Lawlore]

Is the EPP plan being implemented in 15? There was a transfer the other day where a club invoked that right and pay on a per game basis.

For those who may not be aware, the transfer was Fraser Hornby from Northampton to Everton. The initial fee is £65.5k, and the most Northampton will receive from it is £1.365m, assuming he plays over 100 Premier League games. By which point you'd imagine he'd be worth a bit more than that.

Yes, EPPP is the devil, trying to kill off youth football at non-Premier League clubs.

[SteveDM]

Maybe I'm missing something here but surely the best way is to make an enquiry at the club. If they say they're not interested in selling the player, you know it's going to take a massive bid to prise that player away from them.

[podunkboy]

I put in a bid for a 21-year-old in the Arsenal reserves valued at $875K, not a single senior appearance, for $18 million and it was rejected. I put in an enquiry and they countered with $121 million. Kind of steep for someone who's never set foot on the pitch. So, I suppose I could have found an amount somewhere between $18M and $121M that they would have been happy with, but my scouts had him pegged at only 3.5 stars potential. And if I had signed him and played him, every Premier team would have come in the next summer with bids at less than half his value.

[Cougar2010]

I put in a bid for a 21-year-old in the Arsenal reserves valued at $875K, not a single senior appearance, for $18 million and it was rejected. I put in an enquiry and they countered with $121 million. Kind of steep for someone who's never set foot on the pitch. So, I suppose I could have found an amount somewhere between $18M and $121M that they would have been happy with, but my scouts had him pegged at only 3.5 stars potential. And if I had signed him and played him, every Premier team would have come in the next summer with bids at less than half his value.

So thats an example where your approach is all wrong.

A bid of $18m for a player valued at $875k is ridiculous, you should have started with an enquiry or after scouting a figure towards the bottom end of the scouts estimation.

Given their reply though to the enquiry I would suspect your scout would have told you that the player isn't for sale and not really interested in a transfer at which point you should be taking the hint and looking elsewhere before any bids or enquiries were even made.

Your idea of maybe negotiating a figure between $18m & $121m is also poor, at that figure you should be recognising that Arsenal don't want to sell and not even consider trying to buy that player.

[whilewolf2]

As I see it there are four things wrong here that leads to such frustration for users.

One that both Gamer and AI can be so certain that a young player will become a top player. This I think is the most important problem users are willing to pay vast sums for youngsters because they don't fear that they will fail to develop.

Two AI clubs over value their youth prospects they treat them like they were the finished article. No one wants to go back to clubs selling their youth cheap and allowing the user to hover up all the best wonder kids at the end of the season but clubs shouldn't value a seventeen year old reserve like a twenty seven year old squad player with hundreds of appearances.

Thirdly the AI can't structure good deals for it's self. If a smaller club have a youngster with potential they should be looking to strike a deal that gets them his value or more now and some part of his expected value if he does develop into a top player. Something like 4-5 times current value plus clauses so they get 75% of expected value if he makes it.

Fourthly AI boards don't veto it when users try to bid ludicrous amounts for youth players with little or no first team football.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

EPPP has been implemented since FM13, the transfer aspect of the system is taken care of by the newgen/youth intake module.

After a coupe of seasons checked your transfer clauses & there is a chance you'll see EPPP linked payments in place for players who came through as part of your youth intake.

Ok fair enough for the clarification but why not give the players the right to invoke the EPPP post regen generation?