FM08 - How To Increase Your Coaching Staff Numbers (Could be seen as a "Tip" or "Cheat")

[heathxxx]

Many people have been frustrated by limits to how many coaching staff they're allowed in the recent versions of FM.

The method I'm about to describe does perhaps exploit a weakness in the game coding, that allows you to bypass the staff limits, but it does 100% work. So Cleon, rashidi1 & wwfan, it may be worth adding this thread to the Tactics Bible for future reference.

Here's a screenshot of my current staff levels with Granada CF in the Spanish Segunda B4, who had a board limit of "no more than 8 coaches".

As you can clearly see, a lot more than 8 coaches...

How to do it

First of all, get rid of the coaches you don't want. Do this either by terminating their contract, or mutual termination, which usually costs less if they agree.

Coaches you want to keep, offer then all new contracts as Assistant Manager.

New coaches you want to sign, offer them normal coach contracts, then immedately after they've signed with your club, offer them a new contract as Assistant Manager. You'll soon see that you have many Assistant Managers.

Once you have the amount of coaches you want, covering all the training positions you need, offer all of them but your "true" Assistant Manager, back to coach contracts. They will accept.

Hey presto! You have all the coaches you want. In theory, you can do this as many times as you want, as there's clearly a loop-hole in the coding that hasn't been closed to stop it.

I always use this method to get at least two coaches for each individual training position, as follows:

1x Assistant Manager

2x Strength Coaches (Fitness Coach)

2x Aerobic Coaches (Fitness Coach)

2x Goalkeeping Coaches

2x Tactics Coaches

2x Ball Control Coaches

2x Defending Coaches

2x Attacking Coaches

2x Shooting Coaches

2x Set Pieces Coaches

By having this quantity of coaches for each training position, I ensure that even if I have a huge squad of players, no coaches are ever over-worked and therefore training in any area never suffers as a result of a lack of coaches.

[heathxxx]

Just to add, as yet there's no way to increase beyond the board's limits, the number of scouts and physio's you can have.

[heathxxx]

Finally, I don't waste slots on youth coaches, as a normal coach or assistant can train youth players anyway.

[Patrick27]

Heathxxx, do you find that the coaches want the job of assistant manger when there is already one.

Also do you find that having more coaches gets better perfomances out of the players?

Thanks,

Patrick

[Platinum_Edge]

Brilliant! My Wolves side are desperate for one more coach. Good work heath.

[neckus]

Works wonders. Thanks! I got almost every thing on 7 stars now

this should really get the most out of my youngsters.

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Patrick27:

Heathxxx, do you find that the coaches want the job of assistant manger when there is already one.

Also do you find that having more coaches gets better perfomances out of the players?

Thanks,

Patrick

It's easy enough Patrick27. There are one or two coaches who don't want to change contracts, but it's usually easy to see which ones by looking at their profiles and the bar charts for their "roles". For example, you may find someone with only a Fitness Coach bar, may not wish to be anything else.

I usually find though, that you can offer a coach an AssMan contract, then it's no problem getting him back to a coach contract, for the same wages.

This method is actually something I've been using since FM06. I've mentioned it before in other threads, but have never done a specific thread for it. About time eh!

[heathxxx]

More coaches doesn't improve the quality of coaching, their attributes do. However, having as I do, two coaches to cover each training area, no coaches are over-worked at the cost of training quality.

Ultimately though, there's no substitute for playing youngsters, regardless of facilities, coaches, etc...

[heathxxx]

I think the exploit side of using this method is that the game perhaps doesn't recognise an Assistant Manager as a "coach".

I'm thinking this loophole may be closed for FM09, but given it's been open, certainly since FM05, then maybe not.

[Patrick27]

Thanks for the reply Heathxxx. Will try this in my game.

[heathxxx]

I'm actually surprised that this "exploit" has never been mentioned more often Patrick, hence the thread.

[Slim Charles]

Pretty good, this.

Cheers heath.

[x42bn6]

Brilliant, although your screenshot suggests you have Abramovich in charge of your club - can clubs at 2B even afford such coaches? :-/

[heathxxx]

They can when you start by selling your entire squad at the start of the game.

As IRL, their owner was a former President of Real Madrid. He's not short of a few quid, is ambitious and by stating I'll challenge for the title and cheekily asking for more budget, I was lucky enough to get it.

When it came to offering the more highly paid coaches what they wanted to join, the "budget adjustment" option helps. I just diverted funds from the transfer budget to the wage budget.

As for clearing my squad, I managed to sell every player on their books and got rid of all but two youth players, all within a month. So when you see people say "you can't sell anyone on FM08", I say that's rubbish. There's always a way.

[The Gaffovski]

Cheers Heath mate. I'm sorted because I'm playing with Arsenal at the moment, but it's great to know this can be done. It's been one of the reasons why I haven't wanted to manage a lower league club.

[heathxxx]

It's always been frustrating, but hopefully this should help a lot of people out and hopefully reduce the number of topics in the forums about it.

[Law_Man]

Heath - when I try to offer my coaches a job as assistant they say they're not interested in that role. Have you found this to be the case? Do they just accept regardless?

[heathxxx]

It can sometimes depend on what jobs they prefer to perform Law_Man, which you'll see in their profile. Some may flat out refuse, as you're finding. If that's the case, just offer AssMan contracts to any that will, so freeing up available "coach" slots. Don't be put off by those that don't show Assistant Manager in their profile, generally, most will accept.

If your board will only let you have, for example, "no more than 8 coaches", then ideally you need to free up at least 6 slots (if say you have 2 coaches that won't sign an AssMan contract).

Bid for 6 coaches, then when they join, immediately offer them AssMan Contracts. Just keep doing this to free up slots and you should soon have the desired quantity of coaches. When you're happy, you can offer them back to "coach" contracts, obviously with the sole exception of the chap you want as your AssMan.

[Simon spoons]

Thanks a lot Heath worked a treat for me.

Cheers

Simon

[K`oTiC]

To lighten the workload, I find having a coach for each role and then one (or at most two) extra who will have every box ticked is sufficient for a massive squad.

A little more financially efficient than having two for each

[Purefun]

I see you have Daniel Rolland as scout. I have him too. Did you notice his stats dropped or not? I mean the ones you hired him for.

[heathxxx]

I've not to be honest.

I tend to only employ scouts really to scount regions and improve the scouting "knowledge". I'm not too worried about their judging players & potential, so long as it's over 15 in one or the other.

What I tend to do for scout reports is get my AssMan Bernhard Peters (17/17 ability/potential) or the Polish scout Rudi Wojtowicz (18/18) to get me more detailed reports on a player.

Scouting opponents I usually go with whoever has a good combination of Judging Ability, Judging Potential and Tactical Knowledge. I find the latter gives far more accurate opponent information.

[Martyrium]

Wojtowicz is not good enough. I prefer a scout with at least 18/18 in abilty/potential and a at least a regional reputation.

If you have that, you will get lots of information, and a suggested transfer price, which can in the long run save you a hell of a lot money

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Martyrium:

Wojtowicz is not good enough. I prefer a scout with at least 18/18 in abilty/potential and a at least a regional reputation.

If you have that, you will get lots of information, and a suggested transfer price, which can in the long run save you a hell of a lot money

Wojtowicz is 18/18 on my save...

[jaycar]

Pure gold, not being allowed enough coaches is very annoying indeed.

[Martyrium]

18/18 yes, but not good enough reputation

[heathxxx]

Reputation never bothers me TBH.

With scouts it might help, but for coaches, reputation is irrelevent really, it's having the right attributes to provide 7* training.

Mainly, I employ scouts for their "knowledge". The more scouts you have from different locations, the broader your club's "scouting knowledge" is. To enhance this, rather than send scouts on individual country scouting missions, I send them on "regional" searches, as they pick up individual country knowledge anyway.

Here's an example of my club's scouting "knowledge". This is after only one season, having signed scouts from different countries to begin with, plus sending them on "regional" scouting missions.

As you can see, my club's scouting knowledge has increased vastly from when I took them over in the Segunda B4. Very limited knowledge to say the least, as with any lower league team. The key advantage of broader knowledge" is that when you do a basic player or staff search, the results are far better and more players and staff are shown.

The following screenshot is of Frank Passi, one of my scouts. He's already been on a regional search of Central Africa and is now engaged on a search of North Africa. Again, you can see the difference in his "knowledge" know, to what you'll see if you look at his info on your own games.

The information that scouts provide is obviously better if they have 18+ attributes in Judging Player Ability & Judging Player Potential, plus Tactical Knowledge if scouting opposition. For me however, I like to make my own judgement when signing players based on how well their attrubutes will suit my team's style of play and my tactics.

I've had players my scouts thought were awesome, but didn't work, I've had players they thought were crap, that have ended up being world-beaters!

[lam]

Heath,

Looks good, im going to give it a try.

Just a note for those that do not wish to use this exploit or cheat.

You can normaly get away with one good coach per catagory and then have just one more overseeing them all. I have found that this coach does not even need to be good.

I do not know what impact this has on training quality, but the stars stay at 7 and i rarely have any catagory that is beyond a light training load.

Lee

[Purefun]

Originally posted by lam:

You can normaly get away with one good coach per catagory and then have just one more overseeing them all. I have found that this coach does not even need to be good.

I do not know what impact this has on training quality, but the stars stay at 7 and i rarely have any catagory that is beyond a light training load.

Lee

I do the same actually everything works out great tbh.

[Martyrium]

Am i supposed to sign my GK-coach, youth-coaches and fitness-coaches as Ass. Man too? Because they demand more money, so i am unsure if they will go back to their old payment after that

To the scouting part: I totally agree with what you said. I usually use the following scouting set up:

3-4 scouts that go on regional scoutiong missions to increase knowledge.

One scout with high tactical knowlegde to give me next opposition reports

1-2 scouts with regional reputation, and atleast 18/18 in judging potential and ability. The important thing with that scout is that he will give you a quite accurate report about potential ability, hidden stats and a possible transfer fee. This means that you will get to know his potential, if he has any good/bad hidden stats (which is VERY important) and the transfer price. The suggested transfer price is often very close, and will save you a hell of a lot money

[heathxxx]

Originally posted by Martyrium:

Am i supposed to sign my GK-coach, youth-coaches and fitness-coaches as Ass. Man too? Because they demand more money, so i am unsure if they will go back to their old payment after that

To the scouting part: I totally agree with what you said. I usually use the following scouting set up:

3-4 scouts that go on regional scoutiong missions to increase knowledge.

One scout with high tactical knowlegde to give me next opposition reports

1-2 scouts with regional reputation, and atleast 18/18 in judging potential and ability. The important thing with that scout is that he will give you a quite accurate report about potential ability, hidden stats and a possible transfer fee. This means that you will get to know his potential, if he has any good/bad hidden stats (which is VERY important) and the transfer price. The suggested transfer price is often very close, and will save you a hell of a lot money

I never bother with youth coaches TBH. I consider them a waste of a slot. If I see a youth coach who has the attributes I'm looking for, I'll get him on a normal coach contract, so he can work with both senior and youth players.

Most times I find that a coach will sign a contract as an AssMan, then go back to a coach contract without any increase in wages during the process. If your not happy with giving them a pay increase (I wouldn't be either!), then only do it with those without cost implications.

TBH I also ignore scout estimates of transfer fees. Invariably, no matter how good the scout was, the selling club still wants a lot more money for their player, sometimes even double or treble the estimate.

Mind you, as I'm a tight-arsed Northerner who doesn't like paying huge sums for players, I tend to keep an eye out for under-value release clauses, contract expiry and free agents.

[markis_mcghee]

Haha nice one. Works a treat!

[x42bn6]

Is there any drawback in keeping them Assistant Managers rather than coaches, if you can afford it? They still train players and I appear to have no Assistant Manager limit.

[heathxxx]

That's the "glitch" x42bn6, but only when appointing assistant managers from existing coaches.

Generally, I've found that the majority of coaches will accept assistant manager contracts without the need for a pay rise. Likewise, if you wish and as I normally do once I have the desired quantity of staff, the majority will go back to coach contracts without any variation in pay.

The only real drawback if you decide to keep them all under assistant manager contracts is should your "actual" assistant manager retire, or move to another club, you could find that any one of the others is "given" the actual assistant manager role.

Another "glitch" I've noticed sometimes, though very rarely, is that I once had one of my newly contracted assistant managers take over the "actual" assistant manager job. When I got him back on a coach contract though, my original assistant manager was restored.

I actually think that there's a good possibility that this glitch may well be "fixed" for FM09, given the amount of information in this thread.

At the moment, staff limits are linked to a club's reputation. I'm hoping that in FM09 owards, it will be changed and thus linked to a club's finances instead.

Staff limits are most frustrating if you've managed to take a lower league club up to the top division, have superb finances and can "afford" more staff, yet are still restricted to low numbers, because the club reputation still isn't high.

[x42bn6]

But does it hamper their coaching ability, leaving them as Assistant Managers?

[heathxxx]

No, because they can all still be assigned coaching roles in the training menus.

[The Gaffovski]

Originally posted by heathxxx:

I actually think that there's a good possibility that this glitch may well be "fixed" for FM09, given the amount of information in this thread.

At the moment, staff limits are linked to a club's reputation. I'm hoping that in FM09 owards, it will be changed and thus linked to a club's finances instead.

Staff limits are most frustrating if you've managed to take a lower league club up to the top division, have superb finances and can "afford" more staff, yet are still restricted to low numbers, because the club reputation still isn't high.

I hope this will change too.

[ShearersTino]

thanks heath

[mista T]

useful, but i cant decide between dessailly and herrera as my ass man. who shuld i pick?

[geol13]

What if the club states that you already have an Ass.Man. and do not need another one?

[knap]

If you offer current Ass Man job as coach when he accepts, you then offer your next coach the Ass Man job as club no longer has an Ass Man.

Look at mental stats motivation man management.

[The Chosen One]

Great info.

However, this should definitely help teams in higher divisions as a semi-pro team would not afford such an increase in the wages.

[FMFanatic8080]

Bloody brilliant.. awesome!!

Hope this doesnt get changed for next year.. bloody great to have 2 top ass mans nice work

[x42bn6]

If you want to find managers who will accept both roles through the Staff search, you can simply search for staff role as assistant manager AND staff role as coach - these are the managers that will accept both roles.

I'm simply leaving mine as assistant managers as I've discovered the reputations of assistant managers develop a lot faster, and since I'm with a successful club with rubbish coaches and assistants, they end up being linked with my rival teams' managerial spots. One of my assistant managers, who had a CA/PA of around 60/70 went to Lazio and made them finish 14th, when they were expected to finish 6th. Fun.

[lewis999]

Can you only do this in spain because im Manchester City at the moment in my game and when I try to do this it says "you dont need any more than one assistant manager" Or am I doing it toally wrong?

Thanks

[-JeZiFiCaTiOn-]

I always try to play fairly even if I can exploit it....lets be real no team has that many coaches..

[x42bn6]

Can you only do this in spain because im Manchester City at the moment in my game and when I try to do this it says "you dont need any more than one assistant manager" Or am I doing it toally wrong?

Thanks

You don't give them an assistant manager contract at the start.

Basically, when you change a staff's role, it doesn't add to the quota that you've been given (which is blah number of coaches, and there's a limit for assistants, too - mine was 8 at Manchester United). So if you give all your coaches assistant manager contracts, it doesn't "count" to your quota of, say, 8, but it means that if, say, you have 23 assistant managers as a result of this exploit, you can't hire any more coaches. Consequently, if you demote these 23 assistant managers into coaches it doesn't "count" to the quota the board gave you, so you can have tons of coaches in the end.

At the moment, I have 51 assistant managers and discipline seems to be really good at the moment, although it's a bit pointless to have so many assistant managers. If I need another training staff member, I give him a coaching contract which I immediately upgrade to an assistant manager contract after he signs for my club, which he then accepts giving me 52 assistant managers. When all is fine and dandy, you can then downgrade your assistant manager contracts into coaching contracts, giving you 52 coaches.

[lewis999]

Thanks mate I still dont get it, in terms of I have an assistant manager at the minute, yeah? Thats fine, then afterwards I offer a coach a job then when he accepts i offer him an assistant managers position, but one message says he's accepting, then the one after says i already have one no need for another.

I knew what you were saying but it doesnt let me have more than one ass man.

If iv mis-read or interpreted what you have said sorry, just cant get my head around it

[lewis999]

If you offer current Ass Man job as coach when he accepts, you then offer your next coach the Ass Man job as club no longer has an Ass Man.

Look at mental stats motivation man management.

Is this what you mean x42bn6? If so mate then this way of explaining it made more sense than yours but that is not necessarily the case to everyone obviously, yours is as good but I just understood this one easier, probably because yours had more "posh" words in it :)

[SinghyEFC4Life]

thanks for this helped alot for my everton team but i know you said that you dont know if it will work with scouts but hypothetically if a scout favours both scout and coaching roles would this work?