Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 if it makes sense to you, then try it. Ive never tried it so couldnt say if it would work. If it doesnt work change it. It does sound like an idea. This morning you were ready to bin the game because you didn't think you knew what was going on and now youre sitting thinking about how to draw a team that sits back out of its shape. Thats the part I really like about the game. Another way to score against a team sitting back could be to pick physical players with good heading ability and jumping reach. Pump balls into the box float crosses in etc and muscle in a goal. Odds are once you score the AI will change their tactic to try and get a goal back. You then change it to another style to counter what they have just done. Beauty with big clubs is the abilities of the players are so much better than lower league they can do various roles etc which gives you more options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 i know crazy isnt it!!! trying out a new tactic to change to hopefully score a few more goals against teams that park the bus. fm 15 describes it as 4-1-2-3 dm wide. still unsure how it will work but if i dont try ill never know! will keep it as it is then prob drag the striker to an amc slot as earlier mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I've just seen the AI play a good tactic when I parked the bus for the first half hour. I have man marking on but they were playing a deep lying forward or defensive forward to pull my defence out of shape and it worked. I'm still experimenting and learning what is working. When I think I've cracked it then the AI learns what I'm doing. My biggest problem is defending and making mistakes as in the players are making mistakes. My 6ft 7in centre half who is great at jumping has no problem getting to and winning the header but a couple of times the ball just looks like it bounces off his head to the keeper and the striker is straight on it and scores. If I can stop those stupid mistakes my team would be picking up allot more points because I feel everything I'm doing is working tactics wise. I've got a great regen just appeared though who is 15 years old and I think he will be a first team regular next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 thats good. i always seem to get rubbish regans and end up buying them! i just had my first loss away at Leicester 1-0. no matter what i did they out played me. scored from a corner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 bloody hell, lost 1-0 to leicester then 1-0 to qpr not just got stuffed by man city 2-1 at old trafford. there first goal was an phil jones own goal then i got a red card and they scored to following penalty. i then got another red card!!! i think we can safely say that the last 3 games i have cocked up tactically!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 FFS now just lost to newcastle 6-2 so the last 4 matches have ali resulted in defeats. scoring 3 and conceding 10. i can feel the rage coming on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Keep going and look for what works. I've stuck with my basic 4-4-2 formation I have had for most of the season. As another option away from home I tried 4-4-2 and playing a false 9 striker so he comes back and creates going forward. Just won 3-1 and I think that is the best the team has played all season. This is the formation and roles here are the team instructions. I started off with the defensive line high but after they scored I made them drop deeper and it worked really well and here are the stats for how we played. 27 chances and 8 on target. So room to look at how to get more on target but I created allot and had huge possession so Im happy with that performance and another variation of my tactic thats working. It is the same 4-4-2 tactic but just with different player roles and moving them slightly with different instructions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 and after that game I have sent Dover down :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 thats great mate, i ended up reloading as i thought it was just ridiculous. will stick with the 442 and 4411 for now but i feel a change is needed before the rot sets in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Its about trying to constantly evolve the tactic. 4-4-2 has been my main tactic all season. My biggest problem is my defenders and conceding goals. Just drew 3-3 at home after being 3-1 up. Their last goal in injury time with 10 secs of the 3 minutes to play. Im incapable of playing defensively and attacking is the best form of defending for this team because when I'm going forward they haven't got the ball. I do think though it is the defenders themselves rather than tactics. Going to drop my 6ft 7 CB to try and freshen it up. Just worried about conceding from crosses and set pieces but have to try it. Also my 32 goal striker isn't scoring now. Goals are coming from elsewhere but maybe time to drop him too and hopefully that will give him a kick to get scoring again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 good thinking. must be so frustrating playing the lower leagues! rooney just scored a hat trick. due to the amount of crosses that are being lost i purchased a really tall centre forward on a free. 6'6 jumping of 19 heading of 18 off the ball 14. not brilliant but i just thought some aerial presence may help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 just played newcastle at their ground. they play a 4411. they beat me 3-0 so i replayed it using different tweaks they beat me again. reloaded 7 times and each time they beat me. the worst result being 6-0. i have no idea how to play against them. they just keep the ball. my players are unable to pass,the defenders run in the wrong direction. every deflection lands on the toes of a newcastle player!!!! pissed off is an understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 just played newcastle at their ground. they play a 4411. they beat me 3-0 so i replayed it using different tweaks they beat me again. reloaded 7 times and each time they beat me. the worst result being 6-0. i have no idea how to play against them. they just keep the ball. my players are unable to pass,the defenders run in the wrong direction. every deflection lands on the toes of a newcastle player!!!! pissed off is an understatement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In my eyes that isn't cheating if you're looking to understand the tactics etc and get to know what works and what doesn't. Stick with it and don't give up keep replaying it and when you find a breakthrough work on it. Or maybe Newcastle (I'm a Newcastle fan) is just too good I'm choosing not to reload games back up simply because I want to learn as my career in the game develops. In all seriousness I'd watch the games and incidents back. Look at what players it lands too, look at their anticipation, positioning and off the ball ratings. I don't believe that there isn't a way to get round any tactic of 2 teams in the top flight. Check things like the timing of the goals, where did the build up start and how. Are the goals coming early on or are they coming late in the game. Look at the 2 setups, do Newcastle change each time or do they constantly use the same tactic each time you replay it? Do they alter their formation or style during the game? Watch their back line, does it sit high or deep at certain points throughout the match? Also look at challenges your team makes. Are they getting to make a challenge and are they losing the challenge? It could be down to bravery. if they keep the ball are they pinging it around from player to player fast? That would suggest they are playing high tempo. If they do are they constantly doing this? They couldn't last 90 minutes on high tempo and cover allot of ground. Check what the players stamina ratings are like. Look at how far they run during a match and compare it to what your players run? Compare this each time you replay the game. Are you getting any attempts? How many on target and where are those chances happening? Is it because they are sitting back deep and keeping shape etc. Are they closing you down when you have the ball or just letting you have it and not making a challenge? Do they tackle you hard? What's your teams morale like? Are you saying the right things before the game to the media and team talk to raise morale? Or are your team suffering from over confidence and being complacent? There's tons and tons of ways they could be playing and I'm loving the challenge of trying to work it out. I'm still conceding goals in injury time, which suggest to me that the AI knows I'm vulnerable at the end of the game when they are piling on pressure which suggests they are going overload trying to either get a draw or that last goal to win the game. I need to work out how to stop that without the obvious of signing new defenders. I think I have missed the playoffs, which was an expectation of the board. I was hoping to get to the playoffs but not get promoted so I could have another year building the team before being promoted so I would have a better chance of not coming straight back down. I'm not worried about getting sacked but don't think they will renew my contract if I don't make the playoffs and it doesn't look like I will. At that point I may start again with Gateshead in a new career but going to see what occurs in the last part of this season as really would like to be given another season as I do think we will be in a much better chance of promotion next season and survival the season after in league 2. I will be gutted if I have to restart as got a quality 15 year old CB who is a regen and is good enough to be in the first team now. I'm scared to play him now with him only being 15 even though he has better ratings than anyone I have. If there is a match where the outcome can't affect my final placing I may just play him. I've had on the bench hoping that when I've got a comfortable lead and not look like conceding then I could bring him on but there is no chance doing that yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I've been thinking today of the problem I'm getting conceding goals late on in a match. e.g. 3-3 draw when leading 3-1 with 10 minutes to go. My team was incapable of holding on and seeing a game out. I was putting it down to my defenders not being good enough and my defenders are not up to the same quality as my midfielders are as midfielders and strikers are as strikers. Trying to think today that there has to be something else I can do and started thinking about, is it to do with their fitness. Am I giving them enough training in fitness. So I've come home and just played a couple of games after setting training to high for fitness before games. Played 2 games and won the first one 1-0. I finally had held on to a lead and seen it out. 2nd game was 1-1 but still in the second half I didn't concede in the 2nd half let alone late on. Looked at how the players conditions were after both games and strangely despite the extra training in fitness their final condition levels were lower than with less training. So I started to think what else I did in the 2 games that would have an effect and I noticed on average my 2 CB's had run around 2 miles less in the 2 games than they had compared to when we were conceding late on in games and couldn't hold on to a lead and see it out. FB's had also run nearly 2.5 miles less in the 2 games where I didn't concede late on. My 2 CM's had ran around 2 miles more!! and the LM and RM ran 3 miles more!! Looking back at the other games the full backs were running more than the 2 wide midfielders during a game. I could understand that would be the case if they were overlapping the wide man and bombing up and down the wing but mine aren't. Only thing differently I have is done in those 2 games apart from the fitness training is not to play so high up the pitch, close down and higher tempo. I left all of these off to start the games and played standard to start off with instead of attacking. I think because the defensive line isn't as high up the pitch the defenders are running back less to defend when they have the ball and are attacking and then running up to the half way line to push the line higher when we have the ball. So they are covering the ground. In the 2 games I played today because I have left the higher line off for parts of the games (I've still used it at various time to have an effect, just nowhere near as much) and the same with closing down and tempo I think the midfielders are doing the running rather than the defenders and leaving the defenders who don't have fantastic stamina to reserve their energy for defending. This is all honesty because of having limited defenders I would rather be playing as a team. It seems so obvious now after trying it out and seeing it works. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone as kind of speaking out loud and hoping other people have advice or experiences of this kind of thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 well ive just about had enough. i have no idea what im supposed to be looking for while watching the game. just lost to stoke 2-1. it was like watching barcelona. they sprayed the ball everywhere. while my team looked like a sunday league team. my team when on the ball just stood still letting themselves get tackled. playing long passes to the oppo instead of passing to the available player closer to him. without the ball it was just as bad. running away from the ball. refusing to tackle. its just not enjoyable anymore! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 well ive just about had enough. i have no idea what im supposed to be looking for while watching the game. just lost to stoke 2-1. it was like watching barcelona. they sprayed the ball everywhere. while my team looked like a sunday league team. my team when on the ball just stood still letting themselves get tackled. playing long passes to the oppo instead of passing to the available player closer to him. without the ball it was just as bad. running away from the ball. refusing to tackle. its just not enjoyable anymore! Game files are less than 100mb is there anyway you can upload it so I can download your game and have a look at everything. The club, training, how you have things set up and let me play a match or 2 and then I can report back and see if there is anything obvious I could help with. i'm no expert myself but discussing it and looking at ways to improve has to be good if it helps you with the game and enjoy it more. I'd be more than happy for you to have a copy of my saved game file to have a look at it and see how I have things etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 i can do but im unsure how to do it? i think this is it??? https://www.dropbox.com/s/qz5rf8cke2uacgr/united.fm?dl=0 just note the 442 tactic i have changed to a counter mentality. unsure of the reason really just decided i would try it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 recent form! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Couldn't get a 442 to work but i could suggest trying the 4231 set up that im using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Couldn't get a 442 to work but i could suggest trying the 4231 set up that im using. Obviously you can use it as a starter and then make any changes that you desire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 i think i will you up on that, i think my formation needs to change? keep things fresh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 i think i will you up on that, i think my formation needs to change? keep things fresh. Well it depends on how you want to play. I personally wanted to make a 442 but just couldn't get it to work (i prefer playing with 2 strikers). In the end i made my tactic by using Llama3's pairs and combo guide to help (although it initially confused me alot) and then nit picking other bits and pieces of the tactic from other threads. Thats why my tactic uses a BWMs and a DLPd - before spending several hours looking through the forum i would have always used a BWMd and a DLPs with the assumption that the BWMd would be more defensively sound, but my team has been great with them playing the way i have them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I mean sometimes if you wanna play a certain way its about perseverance to get a tactic working. Unfortunately i'm not brilliant at spotting why a tactic isn't working and have therefore downloaded others in the past but i'm hoping to continue working on my tactic and hopefully it'll be a winner. So if you want to play 442 then i'm positive that with the help of the great folks on here you'll get it to work, but until then having a plan B never hurt anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 well in frustration i took out the right back and placed him in the AMC slot as a shadow striker. and moved the left back to the centre so it looks like this i ended up winning 3-0! granted i was only playing QPR but considering my recent form it may as well have been a cup final Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 well in frustration i took out the right back and placed him in the AMC slot as a shadow striker. and moved the left back to the centre so it looks like this i ended up winning 3-0! granted i was only playing QPR but considering my recent form it may as well have been a cup final I know the feeling! On FM14 i had such a bad run of results that a scrapped 1-0 win in the carling cup against Huddersfield was like winning the CL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Personally i'd recommend trying a BWMs and DLPd for your midfield 2 to provide cover for the back 3 as it just seems too open with the Wa on either flank and 2 pretty high up support players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 how do i stop the opposition penalty are getting crowded? sometimes they can be 12 players in there! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 how do i stop the opposition penalty are getting crowded? sometimes they can be 12 players in there! Not sure about that, possibly look at your set up i can see, 5 maybe 6 players of yours all being in the box at the same time alone, if the wingers move inwards during an attack. As stated above (as its working well for me with lots of protection) try using a BWMs and DLPd for your midfield 2, to cut down on the number of players in the box. I dunno about what others would think but in a long attack i'd consider both the B2B and the F9 arriving in the area late / lingering outside of it and the SS and DLF both occupying the edge to the penalty spot. If your playing against a team with 4 defenders and at least 1 DM then thats 12 players (including their GK) in and around the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I've just downloaded your game file. Let me have a look at it tomorrow and I will see what I can do and if there is anything I can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 First screen and only screen I've gone to is this one What problems are you getting? I don't understand, you've played 13 league games, won 9 of those and drawn 4. Your'e currently unbeaten. Granted 3 out of the last 4 games you have drawn but I wouldn't say this massively different from real life. In fact I'd say you're actually doing better than Van Gaal. This is your expectations in the league You've had a brilliant winning streak and although its halted your last 4 games in the league have been against Man City, Newcastle, Liverpool and Chelsea. Winning at home to Liverpool and drawing at home to Man City and then picking a point up away at Newcastle and Chelsea doesn't seem like real halt of a good streak in the league. I think you need to rethink everything here. Think what are you actually trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to win every game? I don't think that would be possible with the team you have and you really are having a brilliant run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I've just written out a huge post looking at some points of your game but lost it and not going to re write it tonight so will try tomorrow. Found allot wrong with your training and where you have gone wrong in that department and how that has impacted on the 3 draws you had in recent games and had you trained correctly for all of those games I think you would of won. So I don't think you are doing a great deal wrong. Just not training correctly for matches. For example you're training all week as defending and then match prep as defending positioning. Yet the tactic I can see has a mentality of attacking. You've trained for def positioning and then went out and attacked. Take the City game 1-1 and City's goal came from a corner. Had you of worked on def set pieces you may have won that game as you limited their chances. The draws against Newcastle and Chelsea you have drawn both after being in the lead and then conceding all your goals in the last 10 minutes of a game. I think this may be because you have attacked all game and the players are knackered. All 3 goals are similar and each time the attacker is beating the defender to the ball. I think it's simply because they are knackered. Especially the full backs who in one game ran over 9 miles during the match. Yet on training in the pie chart the percentage you have trained on fitness is 0%. Can you see where I'm coming from now? I don't think its as much as what you are doing wrong in tactics and more a case of what you aren't doing in training. Even in the Liverpool game their first goal is from a set piece and the second is scored by a sub with fresh legs who had been on the pitch for 6 minutes. Yet Valencia had ran a total of 9.2 miles during that game and Rooney went off injured with 4 minutes to go having ran 8.9 miles. Anyway hope there is some food for thought there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 im finished with this game now, i have no idea how to play it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Can I ask you something? Why did you come on to the forum asking for help? Just you have asked for help and I think you have been giving a ton yet you don't want to try it out in the game or at least come back and say I have tried this, this and that and it hasn't work. If you're going to have the attitude of that's it I've had enough and walk away then so be it. It's going to make no odds to me, in all honesty. I do think though if you are going to ask for help and you've been given allot of help from the community on here you should at least of tried what people are helping you with and let them know if their help was useful or not. Just so the next person that needs help they might be able to offer better advice for someone who doe's want to play the game. I've already said I don't think it's your tactics after looking at your save game that you posted up. However I don't know if you have even looked at my last post http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/406388-my-own-tactical-journey!?p=9977705&viewfull=1#post9977705 which is post #81, yet alone tried implementing what I have said into the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the SLC Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 i do appreciate everyones help. the problem i have is i cant see whats happening on the field. if i cant do that how am i supposed to counteract it with in game instructions. the training is fine i do whats been advised by my assistant. last game i played away at chelsea. they just rang rings around me. no matter what i did. i watch the game in extended highlights and in the whole game i had 2 highlights. thats the problem im having. its very frustrating. oh by the way i had to start a new game as i got fired in my last one. i finished 5th won the capitol one cup and they fired me. i have just played liverpool and won 5-1 played WBA and won 4-1. the away games i dont know whats the best thing to do? if i go conservative against a big team they destroy me if i play attacking/counter they destroy me it even happens against weak teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 the training is fine i do whats been advised by my assistant. . In post #81 I did say your training wasn't fine. If you go back and it read it it states Found allot wrong with your training and where you have gone wrong in that department and how that has impacted on the 3 draws you had in recent games and had you trained correctly for all of those games I think you would of won. So I don't think you are doing a great deal wrong. Just not training correctly for matches. For example you're training all week as defending and then match prep as defending positioning. Yet the tactic I can see has a mentality of attacking. You've trained for def positioning and then went out and attacked. Take the City game 1-1 and City's goal came from a corner. Had you of worked on def set pieces you may have won that game as you limited their chances. The draws against Newcastle and Chelsea you have drawn both after being in the lead and then conceding all your goals in the last 10 minutes of a game. I think this may be because you have attacked all game and the players are knackered. All 3 goals are similar and each time the attacker is beating the defender to the ball. I think it's simply because they are knackered. Especially the full backs who in one game ran over 9 miles during the match. Yet on training in the pie chart the percentage you have trained on fitness is 0%.Can you see where I'm coming from now? I don't think its as much as what you are doing wrong in tactics and more a case of what you aren't doing in training. Even in the Liverpool game their first goal is from a set piece and the second is scored by a sub with fresh legs who had been on the pitch for 6 minutes. Yet Valencia had ran a total of 9.2 miles during that game and Rooney went off injured with 4 minutes to go having ran 8.9 miles. Anyway hope there is some food for thought there. I can only go off what information you give us and that is why I asked for a copy of the saved game you were playing. When I loaded your save game up that is what I found. If your training was set by the Assistant in the save game and that is the way you are still training then yes I think you will struggle in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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