What am I doing wrong

[Valencia7]

So when I played beta version, I managed MU for 2 seasons and than Barca for 2 more. I only used one tactic because if it ain't broken don't fix it right? However when I started my carrer save when ful game came out and started with my tactics that i created during beta testing. But results are just terrible.

In my pre-season I played some MLS teams, CSKA and PSG

Lost against Chicago 5-1

Lost against Philly 6-1

Lost against CSKA 4-0

Lost against PSG 4-1

I mean WTF? Not only that. Against MLS teams i only had 20-25% possesion eventhough i played with my best avalible 11. So after busting my head for a while and considering going back to FM14 I decided to turn to Tactics forum before I give up.

Any comments on my tactis?

My usual team:

GK - DDG

WR - Rafael

CD - Jones

CD - Evans/Rojo

WL - Shaw

CM - Blind

DLP - Herrera

AMR - Januzaj

AMC - Rooney/Mata

AML - Di Maria

ST - Falcao / RVP

[Fosse]

Way too many attack duties, you've probably got too many players ahead of the ball getting marked in the box so there aren't any options for the man on the ball.

[vasilli07]

Why so many attack duties players? You trying to play possession football yet you have no players to do that. Your fullbacks and wingers are all bombing forward at every given opportunity. You need some wide players to be on support so that they can be passing outlets. Eg, right WB(A) and right winger(S) then opposite the other side.

And the 'exploit the middle' shout is also increasing the central players forward runs to the max.

Look For Overlap

Effect: Instructs your deeper wide players, more notably wing backs etc, to make more forward runs past your other wide players further up the pitch.

What Happens: This shout increases the mentality of your wing backs / full backs as well as increasing their forward runs and crossing from further up the pitch. On the flip side of this, the mentality of central players is reduced; advanced wide players wide play is reduced; and run with ball is reduced for attacking players.

Exploit The Middle

Effect: Instructs your team to pass through the centre of the field.

What Happens: Decreases the wide play for wingers and fullbacks and decreases their forward runs; increases mentality of all central players, forward runs also increased for centralised players.

[Quinby]

I had similar problem with my 4231. With Dortmund on BEta saves things were going very well which had like this:

4231

GK D - Distribute to Fbs

FBs Auto

DCs D

CM Roaming Playmaker S

CM D - shoot less often

AMC Advanced playmaker A - move into channels

AML W S

AMR W S

ST Advanced forward

Wide players worked well, created lots of chances and even beat Juve away and Bayern at home.

But since full release nothing has been working. :\

[Valencia7]

I changed it to:

GK/D

WR/A

CD/D

CD/D

WL/S

CM/D

DLP/S

W/S

AP/S

W/A

AF/A

Mentality: Control; Team shape: Fluid

Shouts:

-retain possesion

-shorter passing

-work ball into box

-look for overlap

-play wider

-get stuck in

And results are still the same :S I'm currently 13th with W2 D3 L2

[the SLC]

im in the same boat as you. nothing worked. tried many tactics with my beloved united yet i would always get fired (3 times before christmas) i posted a little thread hoping for some helpful advice and i certainly got it. a chap named pipster helped me out massively. its all about being pro active and adapting to what unfolds on the field. its a pain having to watch the game but when it works its rather enjoyable. im still learning mind but so far im unbeaten!

[skipping pig]

My Beta tactics have also become utterly useless since the transfer to the full game.

Considering defenders and goalkeepers are still hapless, it is pretty annoying as to why my tactic would suddenly stop working.

[jackane24]

You guys just need to read lots and lots of threads and you will learn.

GK/D

WR/A

CD/D

CD/D

WL/S

CM/D

DLP/S

W/S

AP/S

W/A

AF/A

Mentality: Control; Team shape: Fluid

Shouts:

-retain possesion

-shorter passing

-work ball into box

-look for overlap

-play wider

-get stuck in

And results are still the same :S I'm currently 13th with W2 D3 L2

Your set-up is solid as long as your right-hand side consists of the FB-A, CM-D and W-S and the left side the FB-S, DLP-S and W-A. But it's very one-dimensional playing 2 wingers. Change one of them to a different role - IF-S on the right-hand side would be good or IF-A on the left.

Get rid of play wider. You're playing a controlling formation, playing down the wings is bad.

If you want to play a controlling, possession-based style;

retain possession

work ball into box

play into space

push higher up

roam from positions

close down more/hassle opponents

be more expressive

look for overlap

Also consider changing from fluid to very fluid.

But be aware that you need the right kind of players to play this formation. You need 2 incredibly good CMs who are as close to perfect for what you need them to do as possible. I think playing a BMW-D instead of a CM-D is better if you want to play for possession high up the pitch - the CM-D is a holding player whereas the BWM-D is a more aggressive hassling player. He'll intercept the ball more aggressively than a CM-D. Give him the 'play shorter passes' PI. You need anticipation, concentration, work rate, acceleration, aggression and bravery from this guy. Everything else is window dressing. The DLP-S needs to be in a similar-ish mould. Strength & tackling 11+ at the very least.

[vasilli07]

Agreed with jackane24 shouts. I will also remove get stuck in. I don't want the players to lunge in and miss their tackles. I will use the stay on feet shout instead.

[Quinby]

Would having FBs on support with IF and WG Attack work? Or would that mean they won't track back. I've got both WGS and Fbs on support.

[Pipster]

if you think about it your fullbacks are trying to overlap your wingers and you will be leaving huge huge gaps behind you. Plus your full backs must be covering some ground up and down the pitch all match. I'd set your wingers back to a wide midfielder position. Their role can still be a winger and get forward when you have the ball and are attacking but can also help with defending and getting back when you haven't got the ball. Just by adjust your fullback and wingers that another 4 players to help out with defending and the wingers are still attack minded.

Or another option is replace the AMC to a DMC for a more defensive approach and leave the wingers up where they are. This would also leave you to have a CM more attack minded and still help out with defending and attack

[Quinby]

if you think about it your fullbacks are trying to overlap your wingers and you will be leaving huge huge gaps behind you. Plus your full backs must be covering some ground up and down the pitch all match. I'd set your wingers back to a wide midfielder position. Their role can still be a winger and get forward when you have the ball and are attacking but can also help with defending and getting back when you haven't got the ball. Just by adjust your fullback and wingers that another 4 players to help out with defending and the wingers are still attack minded.

Or another option is replace the AMC to a DMC for a more defensive approach and leave the wingers up where they are. This would also leave you to have a CM more attack minded and still help out with defending and attack

If I was to stick with AMC....

Your suggestion is that I have both FBs on Support and move AML and AMR to ML and MR on both WG A so they still track back? That's what I'm getting from what you're saying above.

[Pipster]

Put the full backs on automatic or support. Experiment and see which one has the best effect. No one can say one will work better than the other. One will work with one game and the other with a different game. The gamble is judging which fits which game

Switch off the overlap because in the final third of the field you've effectively 2 players in the same area. I understand what youre trying to do but your full backs are going to have to do some running to overlap the wingers in the tactic above. if they were wide midfielders and you were struggling to get the wide plyers further forward to create chances then I could see why overlap if they have good crossing and passing.

Personally against a team with better CM's or a team that is outnumbering you in the centre of midfield I'd play a DM. Then possibly pull Mata back into a CM position but in his instructions give him more attack minded instructions. If you watch the game and then judge Mata would do more as a AMC then place him there and push your DM to a CM. Exactly the same if your winning and the AI change to a more attacking formation and are creating chances. Pull Mata back to a CM and a CM to DM with different instructions.

With your team I would structure the whole tactic around 3 CM's either 2 CM's and 1 DM, 2 CM's and 1 AMC, 3 CM's with different instructions, also I said above just because you start one way doesn't mean you can't change it during the match. Ive seen myself where I've misjudged how the other team have set up and straight from kick off know I have it wrong and will change positions and roles around within the team. This does happen in real life too. I can remember fergie taking Ronaldo off very early in Rolandos early days at Man Utd as Fergie knew he hadn't set the team up correctly. Other times I will change the positions and instructions to suit and take advantage of how the AI is evolving their tactic during the game.

[Valencia7]

You guys just need to read lots and lots of threads and you will learn.

Your set-up is solid as long as your right-hand side consists of the FB-A, CM-D and W-S and the left side the FB-S, DLP-S and W-A. But it's very one-dimensional playing 2 wingers. Change one of them to a different role - IF-S on the right-hand side would be good or IF-A on the left.

Get rid of play wider. You're playing a controlling formation, playing down the wings is bad.

If you want to play a controlling, possession-based style;

retain possession

work ball into box

play into space

push higher up

roam from positions

close down more/hassle opponents

be more expressive

look for overlap

Also consider changing from fluid to very fluid.

But be aware that you need the right kind of players to play this formation. You need 2 incredibly good CMs who are as close to perfect for what you need them to do as possible. I think playing a BMW-D instead of a CM-D is better if you want to play for possession high up the pitch - the CM-D is a holding player whereas the BWM-D is a more aggressive hassling player. He'll intercept the ball more aggressively than a CM-D. Give him the 'play shorter passes' PI. You need anticipation, concentration, work rate, acceleration, aggression and bravery from this guy. Everything else is window dressing. The DLP-S needs to be in a similar-ish mould. Strength & tackling 11+ at the very least.

Thank you for your help. Will try this out.

I have one question though...

If I play with AP, BWM and DLP isn't that to many specialist roles for very fluid shape?

[Pipster]

Thank you for your help. Will try this out.

I have one question though...

If I play with AP, BWM and DLP isn't that to many specialist roles for very fluid shape?

I've never tried it as never played fluid as in the lower leagues. Best way to find out is to try it. Playing a AP, DLP and BBM as 3 centre midfielders in the conference as highly structured works for me in certain games

[Valencia7]

It didn't work so I decided to start from scratch and use structured shape instead of fluid.

This is my new formation

GK/D

WB/S ®

CD/D

CD/D

WB/S (L)

DLP/S

BWM/D

IF/A ®

AM/S

AP/S (L)

AF/A

Shape: Structured

Mentality: Control

Shouts:

-Retain possesion

-Work ball into box

-Push higher up

-Look for overlap

And it works like a charm After first 10 games we won 9 times and draw once, eventhough we had some really though games.

Thank you all for your help I got some really helpful advice here.