FM2015 - Nottingham Forest: Bringing back the Clough years?

[msfilter]

OK so my playthrough this year will be the (formerly) mighty Nottingham Forest, one of the few teams to win the European Cup twice in a row under the management of football legend Brian Clough.

Nowadays, they are getting by in the Championship, and have acquired a very strong squad due to some massive investment by owner Fawaz Al Hasawi.

The setup in FM2015 is actually very forgiving at Forest. From the start, Fawaz told me he expected a respectable league finish with £6m to spend on top of the large and strong squad I already have. The pressure is off right from the start. This is good because i'm wanting to play around with some interesting tactics. Forest are 6-1 to get promoted.

My play needs to revolve around Andy Reid, Forest's best player and creative force. David Vaughan is a good backup for this role too, so i'm not relying on just one player.

My main attacking formation is going to be direct and based on counter attacking, but flexible enough to change if I need it to.

What do you guys think of this?

Here's my thinking behind it.

I have defenders set to play out of defence, and Vaughan has play it short in his individual instructions. This should encourage players to try and find Any Reid, who is my roaming playmaker. He then has the option of working something down the right between Paterson and Bamba to get an overlap going or spraying it long down the left for my fastest player, Antonio, to chase. I have my team set to drop deeper because i am counter attacking, and i have 'be more expressive' swtiched on because my team has the 2nd best passing in the league, and 3rd highest vision.

My one big worry is defending on the left. Vaughan is a CM with defend duty, and he's naturally left sided so i'm hoping he will drift across to help out. Paterson on the right is a defensive winger so this could work, expect for the fact that i don't think Reid will be that useful at holding the middle because he's set to roam.

I'm hoping that the quality of my players here will shine through anyway, this is a formation I will use mostly against weaker teams.

My backup formations are a flat 4-4-2 which i will use when i need to defend more, and a 4141 wide for if I need to keep possession. With clever use of certain players I can switch between these two secondary formations seamlessly in a match if I need to so I will be more likely to start with one of them if I am unsure of the opponents tactics and they are as good as me technically.

[Fosse]

You'll probably fail FFP

[msfilter]

Probably. What are the consequences of this? If its just a transfer embargo I can deal with that. The chairman may also put money towards FFP. I believe that's what he'll do IRL. Fawaz Fridges sponsored Forest shirts for a whole season lol.

Forest also sold 2 players for £6m in the Summer to Newcastle (Darlow & Lascelles, both with 1 year loan backs) which will help.

[Booms]

How are you getting on with your formations ? ?

[Torskus77]

Paterson a defensive winger? I'm not sure how FM represents him but having watched him light up the Bescot Stadium for 2 seasons, he is one of the most attack minded players I've seen at Walsall in 30 years. Played as an inside forward for us on either side, could use both feet.

[msfilter]

Paterson is just filling in there right now. He's not natural at all, but Chris Burke is injured. I actually usually use Paterson in one of the alternative formations as a regular winger, he's pretty good in the game.

[msfilter]

How are you getting on with your formations ? ?

Its going OK but that space on the left is troublesome. I might have to abandon it, because I need Antonio as an inside forward but teams are just taking advantage of gap behind him.

[llama3]

Its going OK but that space on the left is troublesome. I might have to abandon it, because I need Antonio as an inside forward but teams are just taking advantage of gap behind him.

Is the solution not obvious? Get your Full Back forward more! Even a FB(S) can reduce the gap compared to a LFB(D).

[robterrace]

Using the 1977/78 season Clough team as an example, your formation is slightly wrong.

Originally, with Frank Clark at left back, they weren't all that attacking down that side, and you could tell, but Colin Barrett played most of the season there, and that allowed John Robertson to push forward down the flank.

The team looked like

GK - Shilton (after September, as John Middleton was in before then, Chris Woods also played some games)

RB - Viv Anderson - Prototype of attacking full back, not afraid to go forward, sometimes further than his winger.

LB - Colin Barrett - Along with Frank Clark, was more of a supporting role, did get forward, but not in great amounts, although, Barrett normally went forward for corners

CB(x2) - Kenny Burns and Larry Lloyd - Limited Centre Backs. Both played with the intention of stopping anyone getting past them. Burns was a converted centre forward, so was slightly more comfortable going forward, but it was rare that they crossed halfway.

RW/RM - Martin O'Neill - Could also play up front, but was mainly tasked with carving a line down the touchline with his runs. Also got into the habit of arriving late at the far post to knock in the crosses.

LW/LM - John Robertson - Determined. Not the quickest, think a 1970s David Beckham with a left foot and Scottish. Like O'Neill, spent most of his time ploughing up and down the wing, but given licence to cut in and run at defenders, as demonstrated by his 1980 European Cup Final winning goal.

CM - John McGovern - Holding Midfielder. Sat very deep, did the 'donkey' work of linking the back 4 with the midfield and attack. Not technically great, but does the simple things.

CM - Ian Bowyer/Archie Gemmill - Whereas McGovern sat deep, the opposite could be said here. Bombed forward, looked to support the front 2 and arrive in the box, but not shirk his defensive duties. Best way to see how this role played is look up the 1978 goal vs Arsenal at the City Ground, where Gemmill intercepts the ball on the edge of the Forest 18 yard box, hits the ball to the AMC/ST who has pulled into the left wing channel, and just heads forward to score the goal from the cross at the far post.

AMC/ST - Could play either role, normally found up front, but could drift back and attempt to link up the play.

ST - Only one ambition for the striker, and thats to score. Normally spent a lot of the game trying to get between the defenders, but also helped out in the opposition half pestering the defence.

In Cloughs teams, normally the strikers were the top goalscorers (in the League Title/League Cup double winning team of 77/78, Woodcock and Withe scored 38 goals between them as a ST/AMC partnership), with the 2 wingers chipping in with their fair share.

Throughout his entire time at Forest, Clough was very tactically astute, setting up in what at first glance appeared to be a 4-4-2, but could also be a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3. In fact, the team that beat Malmo in Munich was more of a 4-3-3 /4-3-2-1 formation, whereas the one that defeated Hamburg in Madrid was a 4-5-1. In later years (late 80s) when he built his second 'great' team, it was more of a 4-4-1-1 formation with Nigel Clough playing off the strikers shoulder and linking from the AMC area.

[msfilter]

Using the 1977/78 season Clough team as an example, your formation is slightly wrong.

Originally, with Frank Clark at left back, they weren't all that attacking down that side, and you could tell, but Colin Barrett played most of the season there, and that allowed John Robertson to push forward down the flank.

The team looked like

GK - Shilton (after September, as John Middleton was in before then, Chris Woods also played some games)

RB - Viv Anderson - Prototype of attacking full back, not afraid to go forward, sometimes further than his winger.

LB - Colin Barrett - Along with Frank Clark, was more of a supporting role, did get forward, but not in great amounts, although, Barrett normally went forward for corners

CB(x2) - Kenny Burns and Larry Lloyd - Limited Centre Backs. Both played with the intention of stopping anyone getting past them. Burns was a converted centre forward, so was slightly more comfortable going forward, but it was rare that they crossed halfway.

RW/RM - Martin O'Neill - Could also play up front, but was mainly tasked with carving a line down the touchline with his runs. Also got into the habit of arriving late at the far post to knock in the crosses.

LW/LM - John Robertson - Determined. Not the quickest, think a 1970s David Beckham with a left foot and Scottish. Like O'Neill, spent most of his time ploughing up and down the wing, but given licence to cut in and run at defenders, as demonstrated by his 1980 European Cup Final winning goal.

CM - John McGovern - Holding Midfielder. Sat very deep, did the 'donkey' work of linking the back 4 with the midfield and attack. Not technically great, but does the simple things.

CM - Ian Bowyer/Archie Gemmill - Whereas McGovern sat deep, the opposite could be said here. Bombed forward, looked to support the front 2 and arrive in the box, but not shirk his defensive duties. Best way to see how this role played is look up the 1978 goal vs Arsenal at the City Ground, where Gemmill intercepts the ball on the edge of the Forest 18 yard box, hits the ball to the AMC/ST who has pulled into the left wing channel, and just heads forward to score the goal from the cross at the far post.

AMC/ST - Could play either role, normally found up front, but could drift back and attempt to link up the play.

ST - Only one ambition for the striker, and thats to score. Normally spent a lot of the game trying to get between the defenders, but also helped out in the opposition half pestering the defence.

In Cloughs teams, normally the strikers were the top goalscorers (in the League Title/League Cup double winning team of 77/78, Woodcock and Withe scored 38 goals between them as a ST/AMC partnership), with the 2 wingers chipping in with their fair share.

Throughout his entire time at Forest, Clough was very tactically astute, setting up in what at first glance appeared to be a 4-4-2, but could also be a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3. In fact, the team that beat Malmo in Munich was more of a 4-3-3 /4-3-2-1 formation, whereas the one that defeated Hamburg in Madrid was a 4-5-1. In later years (late 80s) when he built his second 'great' team, it was more of a 4-4-1-1 formation with Nigel Clough playing off the strikers shoulder and linking from the AMC area.

Thanks for this.

Unfortunately I have had to pretty much reverse left and right from the Clough years to play to the strengths of my squad.

If you like, my right back is the wing back, the Anderson style player, and my left back holds position while Antonio (O'neill style) runs in behind. On the right, i have a more skillful winger (Burke usually) cutting inside and letting the wing back overlap. I sure could use a Robertson in my team though No-one plays like that anymore.

Notice my secondary 442 and 433 are like the other formations you are talking about.