How to Nullify High Press

[spaced33]

I am currently playing a 4-4-2 narrow diamond. Its a defensive tactic that is very patient in its build up. It can be very effective but I am encountering a constant problem.

I like to build up from the back with patient short passing. The tactic is effective until a team starts pressing us high up the field. What I am then finding is that the defenders or goalie is hoofing the ball upfield in the hope of finding one of our players.

Being Man Utd we are not particularly effective in the air. This has resulted in us losing a lead in our first four games and having to settle for a draw. Against Arsenal I tried to counter the high press with pass into space and PI's for my playmakers to play more direct passes. This worked well initially and resulted in a goal but seemed to be a one off as after that we clung on by our fingernails and were lucky to end up with a draw.

This is very frustrating at the moment as we surrendered a 3 goal lead against QPR as they used a high press in the second half. The goals we are conceding are coming from out wide. Playing a narrow diamond this is always going to be a weak point but I am more concerned about how to get around the loss of possession when a team using a high press against us.

My formation is as follows: (The basis for this was the formation used in Cleon's Defensive Arts article)

Gk

RB CWB

DC Def

DC Def

LB CWB

DMC Regista

MCR RPM

MCL CMA

AMC Treq

STR DLFS

STL Adv Fwd

Defensive Highly Structured

TI's: Retain Possession, Narrower, Deeper, Stick to Positions, Be More Disciplined

I would also appreciate any help on how to defend my flanks from a team using their wingbacks and wings to overload my fullbacks. Against Arsenal I've tried playing wider and even increased the closing down on my CM's (through PI's) to try and get them to close down the unmarked wingback out wide. What I am finding is my fullback will come upfield to take on the opposition fullback leaving the wings unmarked and dangerous.

Thanks

[spaced33]

A bit more info on the Arsenal game:

David de Gea made 39 passes and only completed 6! He has the Roll it Out and Pass Shorter PI's but when I look at the analysis I see that all of his passes are long range to the half way line. When I look at the passes I see that Arsenal have marked my DC's and they are unavailable for passes

[RTHerringbone]

What works for one team, mightn't work for another.

I know it worked for Cleon, but even with the Mentality and Team Shape you use here, that is a very adventurous system as all four midfielders are mobile and the CWBs will be very high up field. When your attacks break down, you are enormously vulnerable.

For me, the issue isn't how you deal with a high press, you have fundamentally got Role / Duty issues. Regarding defending the flanks, ask your MCs to specific man mark the AI wide midfielders (or full backs, depending on your preference). You'll then like up as a wide diamond out of possession.

[RTHerringbone]

A bit more info on the Arsenal game:

David de Gea made 39 passes and only completed 6! He has the Roll it Out and Pass Shorter PI's but when I look at the analysis I see that all of his passes are long range to the half way line. When I look at the passes I see that Arsenal have marked my DC's and they are unavailable for passes

Distribute to full backs instead?

[swansongs]

Conventional wisdom says if teams are pressing high you knock it long into the space behind.

Get Fellaini on.

[spaced33]

What works for one team, mightn't work for another.

I know it worked for Cleon, but even with the Mentality and Team Shape you use here, that is a very adventurous system as all four midfielders are mobile and the CWBs will be very high up field. When your attacks break down, you are enormously vulnerable.

For me, the issue isn't how you deal with a high press, you have fundamentally got Role / Duty issues. Regarding defending the flanks, ask your MCs to specific man mark the AI wide midfielders (or full backs, depending on your preference). You'll then like up as a wide diamond out of possession.

Thanks for the advice - I think I'm going to change the fullbacks to wing back support and the DMC to a DLPD.

However, this still leaves me with problems out wide. What is an effective way to defend your flanks in a wingless system (only fullbacks) when the opposition is focusing their passing to the flanks and sending their fullbacks up to overload your fullback with their wings?

I'm not keen to send my mc's out wide as this will open a lot of space for their mc's to operate unhindered.

[spaced33]

Distribute to full backs instead?

This wasn't an option in this game as my cwb's were always too advanced to receive the ball. I think they need to be further back so that they can receive the ball - do you think a wbs stay back long enough for that?

[RTHerringbone]

This wasn't an option in this game as my cwb's were always too advanced to receive the ball. I think they need to be further back so that they can receive the ball - do you think a wbs stay back long enough for that?

They should do, but then you lack any attacking width, which isn't ideal. Could try distributing to flanks?

It's a surprise to hear that you felt Arsenal marked your DCs. That's very unlikely but I wonder if a consequence of your deep line is inviting them to trap you in your box.

Regarding the wide defending, I'd still suggest you try what I did. You don't know how it will behave until you try it

[spaced33]

Conventional wisdom says if teams are pressing high you knock it long into the space behind.

Get Fellaini on.

This is what lead to our second goal, look to pass into space behind them and the big man coming on for ander herrera. Fellaini knocked the ball down for Mata who threaded a pass through their DC's and Munir (new signing from Barcelona) finished it off.

[spaced33]

I have certainly found that the high press is destroying our short patient possession game. Against QPR we went into half time 4-1 up and in complete control. The second half we struggled for possession as they pressed high and wave after wave of attacks came in. Against Aston Villa we were 2-0 up in the 75th minute and they seemed to press higher after that and ended up drawing 2-2. Maybe a switch to a more direct game is the answer or, in my case, allowing players more freedom to move around and find space. Would switching to a more fluid setting perhaps help this? I have read that a fluid shape favours the possession game.

On a side note: strangely this really feels like Man Utd irl for the first part of their season.

[spaced33]

They should do, but then you lack any attacking width, which isn't ideal. Could try distributing to flanks?

It's a surprise to hear that you felt Arsenal marked your DCs. That's very unlikely but I wonder if a consequence of your deep line is inviting them to trap you in your box.

Regarding the wide defending, I'd still suggest you try what I did. You don't know how it will behave until you try it

I don't think they were man marked as such but their striker always seemed to be in amongst them. The prevent short GK distribution instruction perhaps?

[spaced33]

Unfortunately I am away from my game machine at the moment but will definitely be trying it this evening - I would just like to have my game plane solid in my head before I carry on.

[RTHerringbone]

Ignore this, just got smashed 4 - 2 by West Brom and 3 - 0 by Swansea. Some how the opposition (doesn't matter who) turns into Real Madrid when you play away. Yet when you play at home, you become to best team in the history of football.

I'm always interested to hear how people approach to games. As far as Away matches go, it is right that you should struggle more away from home as it is also true in real life: http://www.espnfc.com/barclays-premier-league/23/table?season=2013

However, this doesn't mean you need to change things specifically because of the venue but I think you should always be considerate of your opponents' formation when playing any match. I tend to change my "Exploit The...." and "Play Wider / Narrower" TIs based on the opposition formation, and my Mentality based on the relative strengths of the side.

[spaced33]

I used to be of that belief but I have found that I will now go into away games with my usual tactic as I feel there is more space to exploit as the opposition becomes a bit more adventurous at home. I've also noticed that during home games I will generally create more chances once I've scored as the opposition look for an equaliser. This has been the experience on previous saves and not my current one where we are struggling to get our first league win (beat York 7-0 at home as they tried to park the bus in the league cup).

[axehan1]

Are you still struggling with the opposition wing overload against your narrow formation?

In FM14 i would get my strikers to specific man-mark opp fullbacks as the their keeper would always distribute to them.It pulled them away from the centre but that was no problem as it forced the play in field and i played a narrow formation (4312) so if we won the ball back i still had central attacking players to cause damage.

[spaced33]

I've managed to get it working with a flat 3 across the middle with high closing down. The outer mc will go to close down the fullback still leaving me with 2 in the middle.