Trouble making 4-4-2 work in Conference

[Iggy]

Hi everyone!

I'm playing as Gloucester way, way down in Vanarama Conference North.

I do not expect to win a lot of games as this is a pretty low rated team, but after an entire season I just feel like I'm not getting the hang of the tactics at all.

I've done several changes over the first year and even though the end result was decent enough (ended on 15th with the insane amount of 73 goals and 89 goals against), the team plays like it doesn't deserve to be in this division.

I'm trying to use a simple 4-4-2 formation with high focus on wing play. What I am seeing instead is that the team is playing long balls, attempting to put throughpasses from my defence through the oppositions defence.

My formation reads like this

Full back (Support) - Central Defender (Defend) - Central Defender (Defend) - Full Back (Support)

Winger (Attack) - Central Midfielder (Automatic) - Central Midfielder (Automatic) - Winger (Attack)

Deep Lying Forward (Support) - Advanced Forward (Attack)

I'm not getting many goals against me by crossing so I think that having the full backs support is the right thing to do as they can also help my wingers do their job (not that it's working).

The wingers are on the same straight "line" as the CM's to make sure they have some defensive duties aswell. I have tried having them a "line" up (as a sort of 4-2-2-2), they are more involved in the attack but leaves me with only six players doing defensive work.

I should probably have more defined roles for the CM's,but every variation that I have tried in the first season has resulted in the midfield either not helping out enough in the defence or the attack... The other variation that I tried the longest was having one as a Ball-Winning Midfielder (Defend) and one Deep-Lying Playmaker (Support). Regardless of what I chose, they seem to not be very involved in the build up and they are easily played through by the opponent.

I also don't know if I should choose a more attacking duo at top. With the current way the DLF becomes the link between the midfield and the attack (although the play is supposed to go through the wingers), but he seems to only be holding the ball and waiting for help by either the wingers or the CM's. He seems a bit in no man's land between the midfield and the second striker and hardly links up with the latter. I have experimented with having him also attack or changing him into a second advance forward or poacher, with lacking results.

The philosophy that I started with was counter attack as I expected the opposite team to control the game the most. Right now I have ended up with the boring choice of Standard since I can't seem to find any other that does what I want.

I have landed on Flexible Team Shape without really having any idea why and I have reduced the four instructions to become:

Pass into space (probably responsible for a lot of crappy through-passes, but the idea is still that it's smart to try to play through wingers and attackers in my mind).

Exploit the flanks / Play Wider, both to achieve wingplay.

Drop Deeper to not be exploited by through passes that much.

I also played most of the first season changing the way the crosses should be made, without really finding any that worked that well for me.

I also played about half the season with more direct passing, but haven't seen any benefits or disadvantages by turning that off.

I don't have any player instructions anymore except making the goalie distribute the ball to the full backs.

What I want them to do is to try to mix the way they play the ball from the defence to the attack. The defenders (preferabily) the full backs should play the ball either to the CM's who then passes to the wingers or at times try to through-pass to the attackers, or the full backs should play directly with the wingers and support them in the attack. Both strikers should always be aware and ready for through passes or crosses. Very traditional and simple 4-4-2 play in other words.

I should also add that my squad is young, fast and weak. Most of the players I have have a few key attributes that they are good in, while lacking in most others (it is conference after all). I should have a squad that shouldn't be worried about relegating in my opinion.

I hope that some of you have some good tips on what I should change as I feel very lost at the moment. I believe that I have read too much about tactics and that it is taking over my entire enjoyment of playing FM right now. It is also over 6 AM and I haven't had any sleep tonight so I'm sorry if stuff doesn't make sense (English isn't my first language either).

[CamillePunk]

Automatic duties just give that role the duty which corresponds with your tactics mentality, Contain/Defensive gives a Defend duty, Counter/Standard/Control gives a Support duty, and attacking/overload give an Attack duty. This means both of your CMs are on support duty, and so nobody is focused on providing defensive cover in front of your back 4. This is a problem, and is a big part of why teams are playing through you. I'd suggest setting one CM to support, and one to defend.

On the flanks you're too one-dimensional with the same roles/duties on each side. This means you don't have much movement between the lines and are most likely easy to defend against. I'd consider swapping your attack/support duties on one flank, maybe on the side you have your CM(D) you can have that fullback on an attack duty and cutting inside. Just an idea, see how it works.

Your striker pairing is solid on paper.

If you want direct play down the wings on a standard mentality then you might want to use some TIs to raise the tempo and have more direct passing. By default on standard your entire team's passing is going to be pretty mixed. Something to bear in mind is that in general as you increase your mentality to be more offensive, your defensive players will pass shorter and your more forward players will play more direct, and vice versa for going with a more defensive mentality.

[sue_donym]

I am certainly not as much of an expert as some of the people on these threads but I have posted some of my thoughts below - I'm sure other people will be able to give you more detailed advice.

The inherent weakness of 4-4-2 is the amount of space it leaves to be exploited between the lines of midfield and defence. This will be exacerbated in your case because you are sitting deeply and neither of your CMs are playing with a defensive duty - meaning that there will be a huge gap in front of your defence that could be exploited by a deep lying forward or an AMC. I would recommend removing the drop deeper instruction and changing one of your CMs to a defensive duty - this will make your shape more compact and ensure that one of your MCs is dropping into that gap between midfield and defence. In fact if your defence has half decent pace (which at Conference North level is an average of about 10) I would suggest pushing higher up. I would have whichever of CMs is the more aggressive and has better tackling stats do this. You mention that you tried playing a BWM (Defend) and it didn't work - perhaps try this with a different role. The Ball Winning midfield role is tactically undisciplined - he will roam out of position chasing the ball down to make tackles in which could leave you exposed if he has the primary defensive duty.

As for the deep lying forward finding himself isolated, it might be that as both wingers and the AF are on an attack duty they are too away from the . Go into the analysis tab for one of the matches where you struggled to create any thing and have a look at heat map and see where he found himself in relation to the CMs, wingers and the AF. Also take a look at his passing map - what % of his passes is he making? How many passes in general is he making compared to the CMs and other players? It might well be that because of your emphasis on playing through the flanks and hitting balls into space he's being bypassed, and that when he does get the ball he's looking to play over ambitious balls into space that aren't coming off. Perhaps change his personal instructions to pass shorter - as long as you can see from the heatmap that there are players around him when he picks up the ball.

Obviously all of this is said without knowing anything about your players and their specific attributes so I can't guarantee what will work for you, but I hope it of some help. If you're in the close season now try looking for players with good mental and physical stats and not worrying too much about technical attributes.

Hope this helps, let me know how you get on.