Rock787 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 When teaching players PPM's is it preferable to teach players moves that their role would do like for example an IF on attack is already told via PI's to dribble more so would teaching the player Run With Ball help him play the role or is it pointless as he would be doing that already? Likewise an IF on attack does not have more risky passes PI but if me as a manager preferred the player to do so would it be better to just add the PI or teach that play Try Killer Balls Often? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It all depends. If you change system a lot then teaching PPM's can be tricky as you won't know if they suit newer tactical concept that you'll want to be using. PPM's are tendencies so the player will always try to use them even if instructed not to. Tactical instructions of any kind are what you'd like the player to do and not necessarily what the player will do. He'd need the correct attributes for that (especially team work). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmonreds Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 It all depends. If you change system a lot then teaching PPM's can be tricky as you won't know if they suit newer tactical concept that you'll want to be using. PPM's are tendencies so the player will always try to use them even if instructed not to. Tactical instructions of any kind are what you'd like the player to do and not necessarily what the player will do. He'd need the correct attributes for that (especially team work). Exactly. PPM`s are more "powerful" than instructions. They will override instructions everytime. This must be taken into account when assigning PPM to a player. When teaching players PPM's is it preferable to teach players moves that their role would do like for example an IF on attack is already told via PI's to dribble more so would teaching the player Run With Ball help him play the role or is it pointless as he would be doing that already?Likewise an IF on attack does not have more risky passes PI but if me as a manager preferred the player to do so would it be better to just add the PI or teach that play Try Killer Balls Often? As Cleon has stated, instructions are not always adhered to by a player. By assigning PPM`s that suits the role/tactic you are further enhancing it in mye opinion. Increased probability that the players actions will be performed as you want. I always back up/strenghten instructions with PPM`s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock787 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I tend to stick to one system per save so when developing players I tend to have a conveyor belt type approach of moulding them to the role for the team so I'm not worried about a player becoming unflexible for other positions. With a position like a IF I actually never bother teaching the player to Cut In as they seem to do it fine already due to PI's which free's up training time for the player to learn something like One-Two's which I fine very beneficial and wouldn't know how to recreate with PI's Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I wrote this elsewhere, it might help you; I get a lot of people ask me about players preferred moves and if I have a list of the best one for each position and I always reply with the same answer – There is no best and it totally depends on what you want from the tactic you’ve created and what style you are aiming to achieve. Any PPM training should be based on this because it will impact your tactic in some way so you need to factor this into any decision making when creating tactics. Hopefully this post will explain a little bit about how I utilise PPM’s and decide what I need and more importantly is the player capable of doing what I’ve learnt him. This is just about what I look for and others might do it differently, so I’m not saying this way is a must or better, its simply just explaining how I approach them Even after setting your tactic up with the team and player instructions you’ve chosen it still might not mean the players are doing those things because they might have a players preferred move that doesn’t allow or impacts in someway the settings you’ve selected. For this you need to be aware of any PPM’s the player has when tactic building. These add a different dimension to the player and depending on what PPM’s he has will instruct him to do certain traits like dictate tempo, curl ball, shoots with power and so on. So when creating a tactic and choosing a role for a player you really should take these into consideration because they may affect how he plays the role you’ve give him. For example – you wouldn’t want an anchor man with the PPM gets forward when possible, as his job is to stay deep and protect the back four. Having that kind of PPM for that kind of role can stop him doing it effectively and efficiently and could make him get caught out of position. So you need to be aware of the PPM’s a player has before deciding what you want him to do in the system you are creating. PPM’s do not cost CA they are free. They should also be thought of as tendencies and an extension of a players profile. If someone has a PPM then they will attempt to use this move as often as they see fit. The frequency at which it will be used comes down to decision making and how successful it is comes down to the required attributes. So below I’ll list them all and talk about what attributes I think a player needs to be able to use them. Remember this is just my opinion based on what I’ve used for quite a few years so if you don’t agree that is fine as these are just opinions. There is a total of 47 PPM’s that are available by either tutoring or learning a player the move. Of these 47 different kinds of PPM’s 7 of them are available by tutoring only. The full list of PPM’s can be seen in the screenshots below. I used the player search screen as it was easier to show you them all without missing any out. Below are a list of PPM’s that can only be obtained via tutoring (although on FM15 I believe all can now be trained); Curls ball Stays back at all times Dwells on ball Tries to play way out of trouble Gets into oppositions area Arrives late in oppositions area Argues with officials If you’d like your players to learn any of those then you’ll have to find a player with them already in the game and try and buy the player. Then you can try and get it transferred to one of your players by having him tutor someone. These will always be in the game but they’ll be hard to find like they are currently. So if you want to use these then you really need to find someone with them early on and try and get them transferred to one of your players. PPM’s When looking at PPM’s either learning them or unlearning them, not a lot of people take into account the players attributes. Player’s attributes are a massive part of PPM’s and determine if he can actually do what you’ve instructed. All I’m doing is showing what I look for when deciding who can have what PPM’s rather than saying my way is better than anyone elses. So here is a list of attributes that I work on when teaching players PPM’s, you might think differently or look for different attributes though. Argues with officials – I’m sure you all get what this PPM is about! Arrives late in opponents’ area – Off the ball, work rate, determination Attempts overhead kicks – Flair, balance, agility, Attempts to develop weaker foot – Self explanatory Avoids using weaker foot – Self explanatory Comes deep to get ball – Off the ball, technique, vision, passing Curls ball – Technique, anticipation, flair, finishing Cuts inside - finishing, dribbling, acceleration, technique Dictates tempo – passing, concentration, composure, first touch, teamwork Dives into tackles – Concentration, composure, bravery, tackling, aggression Does not dive into tackles – This is for players who have Low tackling, determination, Strength, Bravery, positioning. Or if you need a player to stay on his feet. Dwells on ball - Composure, technique, concentration, vision Gets forward whenever possible – Work rate, stamina, teamwork, pace/acceleration Gets into opposition area – Anticipation, determination, off the ball Hits free kicks with power - Strength, free kick taking, technique Hugs line – dribbling, crossing, teamwork Knocks ball past opponent – Pace, acceleration, balance, determination, agility Likes to lob keeper – Flair, vision, technique, anticipation Likes to round keeper – Flair, vision, technique, composure Likes to switch ball to other flank – technique, passing, teamwork, flair Likes to try to be beat offside trap – Anticipation, pace, off the ball, anticipation Looks for pass rather than attempting to score – passing, teamwork, flair, vision, composure Marks opponent tightly – Marking, concentration, positioning, stamina, work rate Moves into channels – Off the ball, acceleration, pace, flair, teamwork Penalty box player – Composure, anticipation, concentration, finishing Places shots – finishing, composure, anticipation, technique Plays no through balls - Doesn’t really need attributes for this Plays one-twos – Vision, teamwork, first touch, technique, passing Plays short simple passes – passing, technique, first touch Plays with back to goal – Workrate, balance, strength. first touch Possesses long flat throw – Strength, long throw, vision Refrains from taking long shots – Don’t need attributes for this really. Runs with ball down left – Dribbling, pace, technique, acceleration, balance, agility Runs with ball down right – Dribbling, pace, technique, acceleration, balance, agility Runs with ball often – Dribbling, pace, technique, acceleration, balance, agility Runs will ball rarely – Don’t need attributes for this Runs with ball through centre – Dribbling, pace, technique, acceleration, balance, agility Shoots from distance – Long shots, technique, composure, vision, flair Shoots with power – Long shots, technique, composure, vision, strength Stays back at all times – Don’t need attributes for this Stops play – Vision, teamwork, composure, anticipation, concentration Tries first time shots – Finishing, anticipation, technique Tries killer balls often – anticipation, technique, passing, teamwork, determination, first touch Tries long range free kicks – Strength, free kick taking, technique Tries long range passes – Flair, vision, anticipation, passing, technique, first touch Tries to play way out of trouble – Composure, dribbling, anticipation, balance, strength Uses long throw to start counter attacks – Strength, long throw You’ll have noticed I left decisions off the list, that’s because decisions and teamwork are what makes the PPM’s function. A players decision making will determine if he uses it and his teamwork attribute determines how well he works with his teammates but not only that, it can impact how he uses his PPM. If it’s low then you could find he is more selfish and uses his PPM a lot more. This can be a good and bad thing. Basically teamwork is linked to how well a player follows the instructions given to him as well as how he plays and links up with his team mates. Recently I’ve wrote a lot about the 4-4-2 that I’m currently using in FM15 so now I’ll focus on the PPM’s I’ve learnt my players or will be learning them eventually and explain a little about why for that set up. Defence The two central defenders don’t have any as I don’t feel they need any. If I did decide to teach them any at a later date it would only be the does not dive into tackles PPM. The reason being is I need them on their feet at all times and going to ground isn’t really something I want them doing if they risk bringing the oppositions player down. I need my defenders to time their tackles and not be reckless to decrease the risk of giving away pointless fouls or mistiming challenges in dangerous areas of the pitch. With the wingbacks I use though that’s a different story. This is the left sided one; He already had the hits free kicks with power one but I’ve added the rest. I want him to hug the line because I want him to offer me width at all times when attacking to really stretch play and to try and limit the amount of times he cuts inside. I also want to encourage him to really drive forward with the ball if he sees fit so that’s why he has run with ball often. Runs with ball down left is self explanatory. The right sided wing back is set up a bit differently; In front of this player I use a wide playmaker so this has influenced the PPM’s I’ve taught him as they were done with that in mind. I want him to overlap the wide playmaker so he has the gets forward whenever possible settings and he has hugs the line for the same reasons above, to be a wide outlet. He also has runs with ball rarely due me wanting him to play through the wide playmaker rather than taking the responsibility upon himself. The reason for this is the wide playmaker drifts inwards a lot and this often drags his marker with him when this happens which means this wingback has lots of space to run into to receive the ball further up the pitch. Midfield These are the wide playmaker’s settings; The idea behind these settings are I want him to pass rather than shoot or score. He still scores a few goals throughout a season but his main job is to play other people in who are in better positions or using space that is created near him, that’s why I game him the looks for pass and refrains from taking long shots PPM’s. I also want to encourage through balls as he will have a wingback going beyond him, a roaming playmaker at the side of him bombing forward, a deep lying forward who is hopefully in space and the other striker all of whom should be good viable options for through balls at times during the match. Finally I gave him the arrives late one as I still want him getting in dangerous positions but only once the other players are all in place, so I like this PPM as it makes the player hang back slightly. Next up is the raumdeuter; I don’t want him too wide here, ideally I want him between the fullback and centre back hence why he has moves into channels. He also plays closely to the deep lying forward so I’m trying to encourage the give and go type of passes so again that explains the plays one-twos PPM. When he can and the opportunity arises I want him to drive forward with the ball and really run at players as defenders hate players who run at them, it puts them on the back foot and can see them give away fouls if anything is mistimed. At the same time I don’t want him wasting an opportunity either by being a bit keen to take a long shot from range as that can be wasteful especially when I want him to drive into the space the DLF creates when he drops deep. Shooting from range just isn’t acceptable when I have created better opportunities in front of him to use and gave him passing options. Roaming playmaker; This one is fairly simple, I want him to drive forward and support attacks. The reason for short simple passes is he has lots of options along side of himself and in front of him, there is no need to make things complicated. Especially when he has the wide playmaker at the side of him who will be drifting into the space he creates when he drives forward. Central midfielder; Even though technically this player isn’t a playmaker I still want him to see a lot of the ball and dictate the tempo of the game seeing as he is the deepest player from the midfield. I also want him to collect the ball from the defence and link the midfield together. At the same time I don’t want him joining attacks or venturing too far forward. I need him to be positionally strict as I want him to act more like a defensive midfielder and take up similar positions so he is well placed to break up attacks. Strikers The deep lying forward; The job of my deep lying forward is to create a link by dropping back into the midfield areas. This links the midfield and attack together but also creates a bit of space for the raumdeuter to use. So again if he takes long shots then its a move/opportunity wasted. I want him to come deep in search of the ball as I want him on the ball a lot, he’s a dangerous player when he has the ball at his feet. Plays with back to goal is one of my favourite PPM’s to use for creative strikers or strikers who you expect to play other players in rather than himself. That’s not to say he doesn’t score goals, in fact my DLF has been my top scorer in the past 6 seasons but he’s also got the best assist stat too. My complete forward doesn’t use any PPM’s yet and I’m unlikely to give him any at this point in time. He already plays like I expected and I’m not sure giving him any PPM’s would really enhance his play. Basically that’s it, that’s how I view and utilise players preferred moves, I hope I haven’t bored you to death with all of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock787 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have read this before actually but I'm glad you posted it here cos it allows me to ask the following question - Your tactic uses CWB right? So the Runs With Ball Rarely will override the fact CWB have Dribble More PI correct? Also how does Runs With Ball Down Right work with Runs With Ball Rarely, does one override the other and if so why teach the first one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 They don't override as such, remember PPM's are tendencies so when the player sees fit he will use him PPM. So you might see the player dribble a lot at times then other times not at all. It all depends on what the player decides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock787 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Aha I get you. Hence why Decisions/Teamwork ect are also very important. Having said that I always look for players with Teamwork/Decisions/Work Rate type stats so in general this won't be an issue but would you say that it would be advisable to teach less PPM's to players with lower stats in those attributes? Final question, would you teach a player lets say Tries killer balls often only when his attributes in – anticipation, technique, passing, teamwork, determination, first touch had reached a certain level or would you teach it regardless because that's what you want your player to do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock787 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 When training a PPM do you also continue the Role or Attribute training alongside that or would you concentrate on one or the other? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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