Passion, loyalty, and affluence

[mancmalaga]

I noticed these attributes on the editor on the fan profile. I was just wondering what impact these attributes have on the game. Mainly passion, I can understand that affluence will effect how much your fans are willing to pay, loyalty will obviously mean how fickle, so they'll stop coming to the games when you're not doing well, but passion was the main one. Does that give you any advantage in home games, for example if youre Galatasaray or Besiktas at home to s big European side, does your fans passion come into play and give your team a boost almost? Any help would be appreciated, cheers

[forameuss]

I noticed these attributes on the editor on the fan profile. I was just wondering what impact these attributes have on the game. Mainly passion, I can understand that affluence will effect how much your fans are willing to pay, loyalty will obviously mean how fickle, so they'll stop coming to the games when you're not doing well, but passion was the main one. Does that give you any advantage in home games, for example if youre Galatasaray or Besiktas at home to s big European side, does your fans passion come into play and give your team a boost almost? Any help would be appreciated, cheers

It's probably just a named label for a series of values that go into determining what attendance you're going to have at this point or in future. Passion is a difficult one though, the only ways I can think of it coming in seem to be better served by some of the other attributes.

It'd be very interesting to know, but I guess it'd be quite hard to test. Only way you could reliably test it would be to have two versions of a save, one with a high value and one with a low value, with everything else the same. But those clubs would have to be identical in terms of fortunes and results to make a decent, unbiased comparison.

I guess it's something the editor's forum might know more about.

[santy001]

It's generally a reflection of how noisy fans are at home games.

[mancmalaga]

It's probably just a named label for a series of values that go into determining what attendance you're going to have at this point or in future. Passion is a difficult one though, the only ways I can think of it coming in seem to be better served by some of the other attributes.

It'd be very interesting to know, but I guess it'd be quite hard to test. Only way you could reliably test it would be to have two versions of a save, one with a high value and one with a low value, with everything else the same. But those clubs would have to be identical in terms of fortunes and results to make a decent, unbiased comparison.

I guess it's something the editor's forum might know more about.

Cheers mate. Might post it on there instead, they might know

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I advise editing the Manchester City fans... They have 20 for loyalty, which is downright delusional.

[forameuss]

I advise editing the Manchester City fans... They have 20 for loyalty, which is downright delusional.

Is it? 20 is probably pushing it, but given that a lot of them are still there from the days where they were fiercely loyal (mostly because they were absolute dog toss), I'd say it should be pretty high. They'll have their plastic fans like most big clubs, but it's pretty unfair to tar all of them with the same brush.

[Spurs08]

Is it? 20 is probably pushing it, but given that a lot of them are still there from the days where they were fiercely loyal (mostly because they were absolute dog toss), I'd say it should be pretty high. They'll have their plastic fans like most big clubs, but it's pretty unfair to tar all of them with the same brush.

I can remember when they bought about 30 fans to our place for an away game... the vast majority coming now didn't go when they were ****.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Is it? 20 is probably pushing it, but given that a lot of them are still there from the days where they were fiercely loyal (mostly because they were absolute dog toss), I'd say it should be pretty high. They'll have their plastic fans like most big clubs, but it's pretty unfair to tar all of them with the same brush.

It depends how you judge it, if we're talking attendances then;

Manchester United = 19 loyalty

From the 1940's they've had an average attendance that usually hovers around 40k, it drops and rises but never below 33k (1962) when they finished 15th and that was a blip seeing how the attendances went UP again the following year to 40k and they finished 19th! 1974 they got relegated 42k attendances, the following year promoted, attendances went up again to 48k.

It's actually pretty impressive reading, United's attendances are ridiculously consistent, for a team that was inconsistent at times. Obviously the modern era their stadium averages are quite high and never really drop.

Let's contrast with Manchester City; 20 for loyalty.

In the 1940's their attendances hover around 40k and they get relegated but re-promoted quickly in the 50's. From 1952 onwards (from 1947 if I want to be harsh) their attendances steadily drops, with one-season spikes in between consistently until by the 1960's they're pulling in crowds of 25k on average. On relegation they drop down to 18k average crowds (1964) and 14k (1965), though it's back up to 30k when they have a chance of winning something (37k when they win the league in 1968) and from there is particularly consistent, in fact it rises back up to 40k averages by 1977 and 1978, only to suddenly go off a cliff again.

From 83-99 their average hovers around the 25-26k mark. To their credit attendances start rising in 1998 (when they went down to the third division and surged back to the Prem) and has been relatively stable since 1998, increasing upwards to the current 47k average. From the 1980-1998 though they had the capacity for 48 through to 32 thousand (redevelopment). But the cynic would say they only started turning up once the sinking ship had been turned around.

Looking at the two clubs (direct rivals haha), I'd say United deserve the 19 rating but do City deserve a 20? I don't think so.

Even hardcore Newcastle United (17 passion, 17 loyalty) can't offer consistent attendances until the modern era yet Arsenal (16 loyalty) actually has very consistent levels of attendances, more so than either City or Newcastle since 1947 (excluding the 1980's dip) with their average usually hovering around the upper limit of 30k and (obviously) skyrocketing once they could break free of that capacity limit.

Just on that alone... I'd change things around a bit.

Course, that assumes loyalty means fans will stick with the club through thick and thin, something I think the averages will usually show.

Oh and disclaimer; I pulled the statistics off the European Averages tracker and just briefly went through the attendances and checked the club pages official and unofficial for capacity through the years. It's not a full research project so I may be missing things (Stadium redevelopments for example) but from what I saw, City claiming 20 is just laughable.

[santy001]

You can't look at any individual field of data and base arguments around that however. For a lot of clubs there hasn't been a true test of their fanbases loyalty. Spending a couple of years out of the top flight hits attendances, but once it becomes closer to 10 years then you start see the effects more as older fans stop going and younger fans become drawn in by other clubs, particularly if there are nearby clubs who are more successful.

There are other fields in the data though which contribute to attendances and they provide things to consider as well. You can make an argument of loyalty being higher as a percentage among 20,000 than among 80,000 etc. Historical figures have very little importance as well, the fans that attended in the 1930's, 50's, 70's and such aren't the fans attending today. The constraints aren't the same either, at a Stoke game now there will be people travelling from Crew, and further afield Nottingham or Derby to watch games.

You can always ask in the Man City data issue about it specifically though, you won't have to speculate what led to the decision that way.

[mrw072]

Very interesting thread! I think a good way to gauge loyalty is to look at the average crowd size of teams when they have seasons of struggle! For example after relegation. I don't necessarily think that teams with the biggest attendances have the most loyal supporters. It's the teams who have good crowds (relatively speaking) at a lower level of football than they're accustomed. Basically teams who have a large support who will stick with them through thick and thin.