This is starting to annoy me now

[Ajescent]

the amount of "first team chats" my players keep coming up to me with is getting ludicrous.

10 in the space of 40 days.

Those 40 days are the first 40 of a season.

It's now common place that I get 2 chats in 1 day regularly.

We are semi-pro so I guess it explains the lack of professionalism(...?) but these numbers are just stupid.

To make matters worse, in the 7 plus years I've been playing, my discipline levels has been stuck on 4. I thought starting with no football experience or licenses would be fun and my stats would grow but nope...nothing's working. It's irritating!!

Is there anything that can be done to fix this?

[Dr. Hook]

On the dscipline thing, have you warned, fined etc. anyone? That is what I've noticed moves that score. As for the excessive chats, you must be doing something wrong, as I've never had that many, ever, nor have others I've spoken to about it, for that matter. Now before you get all up in arms over the idea it might be your fault, the fact is that things like this are pretty much always a user issue related to squad and man-management decisions you've made. Without knowing more, I couldn't venture a guess as to what exactly that is, but what can be done to fix it is to stop doing whatever it is you are doing to cause it.

[HUNT3R]

There's a shocking lack of information in the OP. Squad statuses, player personalities, player abilities, manager rep/attributes etc etc etc all need to be provided. We don't even know what club you're at!

[Ajescent]

I fine anyone who gets sent off by 2 yellows a week's wages

I fine anyone who gets a straight red 2 week's wages

anyone who performs below a 6 1 week's wages

anyone who performs below a 5.5 2 week's wages.

Anyone who misses training 2 week's wages (this is also something that happens often) In my 7 years, I have never failed to fine anyone who screws up except twice accidentally and the game was quick to pull me up on it both times.

I think the problem might be with the contracts I sign for people. I assume it's because we are semi-pro but I can only sign people on "key player" or "first team" contracts so naturally they get upset when they don't get first team play, though amateur players are harder to place.

But still, that doesn't explain people complaining about lack of football either at the start of a season or at the end when there's no football left.

I have been complaining about these stats not growing for quite a while. my "youngsters" and adaptability stat is STILL at 1.

I am at LEO FC (Gibraltar)

my stats

att 17

def 12

fit 13

goalkeeping 6

tactical 18

technical 18

mental 20

working with youngsters 1

adaptability 1

determination 1

player knowledge 19

youngster knowledge 17

level of discipline 4

man management 13

motivating 9

All my stats are at 70 or more. including reputation at 85%

I have all the licenses.

the last 10 people who have complained have all been listed as either "balanced" or "fairly professional". After this started I assumed it was the players I was buying so I made sure to only buy "professionals" but still the same thing is still happening.

[Dr. Hook]

I think you nailed the problem up there "I think the problem might be with the contracts I sign for people. I assume it's because we are semi-pro but I can only sign people on "key player" or "first team" contracts so naturally they get upset when they don't get first team play." As a low budget semi-pro side, you have to use non-contract forms for those you don't want to make first teamers or key players. If you've signed someone as a key player and then only use them in a rotation or backup role when they expect to be starting almost every match, then they will complain. The professionalism isn't the problem, it is what the players expect based on the squad status you signed them to. I appreciate the difficulty of losing players to bigger clubs when they are on part-time deals,v I've been there many a time, but this is the reality in football at the lower, lower leagues.

As for start of end of season complaints, it is still the same thing. It appears that the algorithm that determines player complaints about this is based in part on: games club has played and games player has started. So, the problem was building and then it triggers without regard to the time of the year. I think this could be refined, but the core issue remains the same- sign players based on what you realistically expect of them in the squad, regardless if that means non-contract, and you will greatly reduce these incidents.

[Ajescent]

Figured that was the case, we do need to turn pro asap.

But this doesn't explain why my stats are at 1s and 4 though. I'm sure if I had better discipline, I wouldn't get comments with such frequency regardless what I contract I sign them on.

[Dr. Hook]

Figured that was the case, we do need to turn pro asap.

But this doesn't explain why my stats are at 1s and 4 though. I'm sure if I had better discipline, I wouldn't get comments with such frequency regardless what I contract I sign them on.

That actually has nothing to do with why they are complaining. The stats help you in carious situations once you are dealing with something- you have good man management attribute, so your responses will be better received, but stats will not prevent players from becoming upset in the first place for something like playing time.

[Wiitastic]

You fine players far too much, no wonder you get a lot of these things!

I give players a warning first if they get sent off then if it happens again, 1 weeks wages, then again it's 2 weeks wages, and if it continues in the 1 season, banished to the reserves/under 21s for 3 matches.

I don't really care about fining players for low match ratings.

[Cougar2010]

You fine players far too much, no wonder you get a lot of these things!

I give players a warning first if they get sent off then if it happens again, 1 weeks wages, then again it's 2 weeks wages, and if it continues in the 1 season, banished to the reserves/under 21s for 3 matches.

I don't really care about fining players for low match ratings.

Players don't understand warning > 1 week fine > 2 week fine, it simply isn't coded into the game.

You should warn/fine them the relevant punishment for the issue, the same every time.

[Shepp2230]

Players don't understand warning > 1 week fine > 2 week fine, it simply isn't coded into the game.

You should warn/fine them the relevant punishment for the issue, the same every time.

Is this documented somewhere?

[Ajescent]

You fine players far too much, no wonder you get a lot of these things!

I fine so much because my discipline level is so low, I hoped they would increase if I increased my fining skills...but...nope

[markantony]

Handing out way too many fines.

Two yellows should be a warning. A Professional foul should get a 1 week fine and violent conduct a two week fine.

Fining players for poor performance is also harsh.

[thomit]

5.0 is average performance ... and you fine them if they get "only" 6.1? If I was one of your players, I would ask to leave.

Even if you take the other definition of average, namely the 6.6 that players starts the matches with, fining them - even warning them - on 6.1 seems excessively harsh to me.

I warn players about poor performance only if they are in the 5's or low 6's 2 or 3 matches in a row (very rarely happens), fine them a week for a red card only if I have warned them for getting red carded previously in the same season, fine them 2 weeks for each red after that.

I agree with the notion that if you give players contracts as "key" or "first team" when you only intend to play them as rotation or backup players, is the source of your problems here. You get them to join the team or sign a new contract under false pretenses. If I was one of your players that you had tricked in this way, I would be complaining too. A lot.

[Ajescent]

I didn't "trick" anyone. I'm used to playing pro teams when I was able to set the correct contracts when I signed people. Now I'm playing a semi pro team for the first time, didn't realise I could only sign first and key players would be the case until someone pointed it out, actually thought it was a bug.

As for the fines, whenever I fine people for Reds they agree it's a good decision (unless it's 2 yellow but as soon I tell them it's the club rules, they stop complaining.) As for the poor performances, I admit I am being a bit harsh but most of the time the players agree that the fine was the right choice.

But all of this goes back to my original point. If I'm always so harsh on my team, why is my discipline stat so low?

[thomit]

What is the point of increasing your discipline attribute?

[Ajescent]

As I'm new to the FM series, my knowledge of the stats were skewered. I thought it stopped people for coming to me with complaints that the average person would consider trivial. (e.g a player who has played 60% and was a sub for about 30-40% of the other matches yet complain about a lack of matches) I thought that would limit those things.(at that's what I got from the stat description). But from what I'm hearing, it's pretty weak/useless. But either way...why is it and the others stuck so low whilst the others have shot so far up? That's the question no one seems to want to answer.

[Dr. Hook]

As I'm new to the FM series, my knowledge of the stats were skewered. I thought it stopped people for coming to me with complaints that the average person would consider trivial. (e.g a player who has played 60% and was a sub for about 30-40% of the other matches yet complain about a lack of matches) I thought that would limit those things.(at that's what I got from the stat description). But from what I'm hearing, it's pretty weak/useless. But either way...why is it and the others stuck so low whilst the others have shot so far up? That's the question no one seems to want to answer.

I'll do my best to find out an answer for you as to why it isn't increasing. I don't think it's that anyone doesn't want to answer, but simply that none of us has had a clear one to give you.

[thomit]

There's no clear info from SI on what role these attributes has for human players. I think they mean zero, perhaps they have a role to play when clubs search the market for a new manager, but I doubt that too. Never payed any attention to them.

As for increase/decrease of stats; maybe it is that you gain discipline "points" if you are more fair in your handing out of warnings/fines? That would seem more logical to me, than just increasing it if you are unfair enough

[Ajescent]

As harsh as I am, I am ALWAYS consistent in my punishments for the 7yrs I've been playing my game. Only twice have I missed out on fining players who didn't appear at training. Whenever I've failed, the game has pulled me up and I promised to get better and each time I passed the promise. So no idea what's going on considering my stats have increased since the one I posted earlier but not the ones I'm having issues with.

[thomit]

Well yes, but harsh is harsh even if it is consistent. Maybe the game is punishing you for dishing out fines too harshly? I really don't know. But my advice would be to view human manager stats as "cosmetic" only. I think other clubs will mainly look at your reputation/history when they look for a new manager; what your discipline stat (or any other stat) is, does not matter. Much.

Edit: But, like many others, I would appreciate if someone with facts would shed light on the matter ...

[Cougar2010]

What is the point of increasing your discipline attribute?

The higher your discipline the less players approach you with issues for one.

[El Presidente]

Looking forward to "Psychologist Manager 2016" and "Press Manager 2016"

[Ajescent]

pshh, Dominatrix Manager 2016 is the one I'm after.

[thomit]

The higher your discipline the less players approach you with issues for one.

Is this a fact? Can you point me to official SI literature where it says so?

[Cougar2010]

Is this a fact? Can you point me to official SI literature where it says so?

Its been mentioned on the forums this year, not sure where.

EDIT

I've had a look with the search but can't see anything from a SI staff member. Pretty sure though its also a pop up hint when the game is processing and when you first create your profile I think you can hover over each attribute to see what it does.

[Neil Brock]

Yes you're correct, level of discipline means players are less likely to raise issues with you and when they do, you have more chance of talking them round. When creating a new manager, on the level of experience page, if you hover over each stat it'll explain what they all mean.

[thomit]

Much obliged. Any way to see what roles human manager stats play after you have created your manager profile? I mean, if that's the only time you can see what these stats do, it's easily forgotten, isn't it ... And yes; I'm aware that most of them is pretty straightforward, however what good/bad (if any) they do to a human manager, is not clear.

But that's a good thing to get cleared up. So, hot tip for those that find player morale or complaints is a bit of a struggle; make sure when you create your manager profile that you crank up your discipline stat. Yes?

[Jean-Luc]

5.0 is average performance ... and you fine them if they get "only" 6.1? If I was one of your players, I would ask to leave.

5.0 is certainly not an average performance.

When the match starts, the numbers all start at 7.0, so 7 is the "average". Everything around 6 is already quite bad and 5 is absolutely abysmal. There is certainly a reason why the game offers the possibility to fine once a player hits 6.1.

The fact that the system in theory ranges up to 10.0 doesnt mean that 5.0 is the average. It's like at school or university where you might have a theoretical variety of grades, but in reality, only some of them are really used, and the others are for exceptional cases.

[Cougar2010]

When the match starts, the numbers all start at 7.0, so 7 is the "average". Everything around 6 is already quite bad and 5 is absolutely abysmal. There is certainly a reason why the game offers the possibility to fine once a player hits 6.1.

Actually I believe all players start on is it 6.6 or 6.7 at the start of a match.

[Guest]

5.0 is a poor performance but imo it is not low enough to justify fining a player them 2 weeks wages, fining players for a 6.2 or lower is bordering on being awful man-management.

[thomit]

It's 6.6. Anyway, I mentioned in in my first post (#13) that there are two ways of viewing what "average" is. The traditional, in which on a scale from 0-10, 5 would be average. The other uses the starting rating of the players as the base average. It's your choice. In any case, in real life, I think you would see hundreds of players in uproar - and possibly going on strike - if a manager decided to fine players for playing slightly below average in one match. I don't even think it would be legally quite kosher. It's their wages after all, they are employees with contracts, and there's limits to what extent a club (or a manager) can use fines. Sure, you can fine as much as you like, and whenever you want, in FM. In real life, fines are considered very severe and serious acts of "discipline", and not something taken lightly. And there are legal documents and contracts that stipulates to what extent a club can use that course of action. In FM you don't get the players' unions or their lawyers breathing down your neck when you do things like that - it's not implemented in the game. But I for one certainly play this game as if it was. If you play the game like "it's my world, and I do what I want" - fine (!), you can do that. To me, it's not right.

[Cougar2010]

5.0 is a poor performance but imo it is not low enough to justify fining a player their wages for a week, fining players for a 6.2 or lower is bordering on being awful man-management.

FM wouldn't give you the option of fining if it wasn't considered justified within the coding of the game.

Personally it depends on the situation, if its a mistake that cost a goal leading to a low rating I don't usually bother nor do I for strikers/AMs who tend to end up with a low rating if they miss the target with several efforts at goal.

However I do tend to warn players who finish on less than 6.0 for no obvious reason.

[Guest]

I use the player interactions when I'm not happy with a performance, it feels like they have significantly more impact on a player than a fining them, the only tme I fine players is for failing to turn up for training or mathces & being sent of for dangerous/reckless challenges.

I fine anyone who gets sent off by 2 yellows a week's wages

I fine anyone who gets a straight red 2 week's wages

A question for those who fine any player who is given a straight red. It's the 90th minute & you're leading by a single goal, a player is sent of for denial of an obvious scoring chance, would you fine them?

[Cougar2010]

I use the player interactions when I'm not happy with a performance, it feels like they have significantly more impact on a player than a fining them

Hmmm never thought about that, something to consider.

A question for those who fine any player who is given a straight red. It's the 90th minute & you're leading by a single goal, a player is sent of for denial of an obvious scoring chance, would you fine them?

Tough one in terms of coding I suspect the player will expect one and if you don't it may lead to issues in the future with lack of discipline however in the context of the match he has possibly earned you two points.

It would depend how I was feeling but I suspect more often than not I would probably give him a warning and leave it at that.

[thomit]

FM wouldn't give you the option of fining if it wasn't considered justified within the coding of the game.

Personally it depends on the situation, if its a mistake that cost a goal leading to a low rating I don't usually bother nor do I for strikers/AMs who tend to end up with a low rating if they miss the target with several efforts at goal.

However I do tend to warn players who finish on less than 6.0 for no obvious reason.

Warnings are very different from fines. A warning for playing far below what is expected is ok. Particularly if it is a repeated occurence. However, a fine is something I would only use if I was certain that the poor performance was a deliberate act. E.g. a player being upset about something and deliberately playing badly, or with no effort whatsoever. I certainly would not fine a player just for having a bad day at the office ...

[martinji]

I'm sure I remember reading on these forums a long long time ago, that in the game a warning was actually seen as more severe than a fine - the equivalent of a written warning about future conduct, that's often seen as one step before getting sacked (this was FM2012). Ever since then I've never used warnings only fines. Sounds from this thread though like that was either never true or out of date.

I vary my fining in a way that the game probably regards as inconsistent. Anyone sent off for what's described as a vicious foul or an elbow - where it's their violence at fault - gets fined two weeks wages, always. Anyone sent off for two yellows gets fined one weeks wages, unless the game says the other player dived or some other reason for thinking the card was unfair, in which case I don't fine them at all. Alternatively if they have only just come back from a suspension I might fine them two weeks. A player sent off for a professional foul I may not give a fine at all, and at worst I fine them one week.

I've never fined anyone for poor performances, unfortunately the game isn't usually clear enough about whether they're just having bad form/bad luck, or if they are not trying. The only time I'd consider fining someone is if they performed awfully and their mood was described as disinterested or complacent. Like someone else said I manage poor performance by private chat.

[Ajescent]

I use the player interactions when I'm not happy with a performance, it feels like they have significantly more impact on a player than a fining them, the only tme I fine players is for failing to turn up for training or mathces & being sent of for dangerous/reckless challenges.

A question for those who fine any player who is given a straight red. It's the 90th minute & you're leading by a single goal, a player is sent of for denial of an obvious scoring chance, would you fine them?

No, I wouldn't.

But I will fine a player who gets sent off when we are 3-0 after 66mins

Or after 1mins 30secs of play

Or when he's on a second yellow, we are at 1-1 and I've told him to calm down more than once but still gets sent off.

[hluraven]

A question for those who fine any player who is given a straight red. It's the 90th minute & you're leading by a single goal, a player is sent of for denial of an obvious scoring chance, would you fine them?

IRL, no of course not. They did the right thing.

In FM, yes every time, because the module has no sense of why or how the red card came about.

For the same reason, if a player got sent off every single game for two yellows, you could fine him 2 weeks wages and go mad at him IRL. In FM, there is no perception that the fine is for multiple and cumulative offences, it only judges the last.

[Ajescent]

ou good point. free fines for everyone!

[Marabak]

Do fines actually do anything though? I rarely use fines, and only really warn players when they get sent off. I don't do anything disciplinary based for poor performance, other than speaking to the player or dropping them. I'm just interested in whether actually get better performances after fining/warning players? More so than other options?

If you fine someone for a red card, are they actually less likely to get one in the future, or does it just boost your coffers a bit?

[Guest]

I've always worked on the basis that there is a greater chance of fining players doing more harm to squad morale than improving player discipline, the players cannot grasp the concept of repeat fines for the same on-field offence so what's the point in continually fining them?

As I mentioned in an earlier post I always find using plauer interactions to be a much more effective tool in handling issue of player conduct.

[Cougar2010]

Not fining players when they are expecting you to can also lead to disciplinary issues in your squad and possibly on rare occasions lead to a drop in some attributes.

On the flipside warning/fining players for the correct incidents can also lead to improvements in some attributes on some occasions.

[Guest]

The key phrase you used is discipline, fining players for a poor performance has nothing to do with discipline which is why I will avoid for all but the most serious cases & even then I try to consider whether the low match rating is correct.

Although I know that constantly fining players for a 5.5 of lower match rating is not going to be too much of a problem if SI ever change the warning/fine system to be much more realsitic I'm content that my more real life approach means that I will not have to alter my behaviour all that much. In a nutshell not looking to game the current version means that I stand a much better chance of enjoying future versions.

[GSevensM75]

It's 6.6. Anyway, I mentioned in in my first post (#13) that there are two ways of viewing what "average" is. The traditional, in which on a scale from 0-10, 5 would be average. The other uses the starting rating of the players as the base average. It's your choice. In any case, in real life, I think you would see hundreds of players in uproar - and possibly going on strike - if a manager decided to fine players for playing slightly below average in one match. I don't even think it would be legally quite kosher. It's their wages after all, they are employees with contracts, and there's limits to what extent a club (or a manager) can use fines. Sure, you can fine as much as you like, and whenever you want, in FM. In real life, fines are considered very severe and serious acts of "discipline", and not something taken lightly. And there are legal documents and contracts that stipulates to what extent a club can use that course of action. In FM you don't get the players' unions or their lawyers breathing down your neck when you do things like that - it's not implemented in the game. But I for one certainly play this game as if it was. If you play the game like "it's my world, and I do what I want" - fine (!), you can do that. To me, it's not right.

You'd be amazed in real life how often player are fined, although I doubt it's a minimum of a weeks wages. There have been numerous stories of players being fined two or three times a week for turning up late for training etc.

[Guest]

Players are fined all the time but the fines will be part of a defined club code of conduct & the amount they are fined will be much smalller, things like £500 for leaving a mobile on in the dressing room, £250 for reading a newspaper at team meeting, £250 for turning up late for a pre-match meal, the sort of stuff that's currently not in FM.

[Marabak]

You'd be amazed in real life how often player are fined, although I doubt it's a minimum of a weeks wages. There have been numerous stories of players being fined two or three times a week for turning up late for training etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2265180/Arsenal-fine-list-Amount-players-pay-breaking-Arsene-Wengers-rules.html

[Wiitastic]

When I just warn them they behave for some time and if they do it again then I fine them 1 weeks wages. My teams are generally well behaved on the pitch.

[Loki679]

When I just warn them they behave for some time and if they do it again then I fine them 1 weeks wages. My teams are generally well behaved on the pitch.

As hluraven said the players won't remember being warned though, you might as well just fine them and save the wages. Would be nice if they could make it so that the players recognise cumulative and escalting scales of punishment for the next edition. I think that would really help the immersion and roleplay.

[Dr. Hook]

As hluraven said the players won't remember being warned though, you might as well just fine them and save the wages. Would be nice if they could make it so that the players recognise cumulative and escalting scales of punishment for the next edition. I think that would really help the immersion and roleplay.

Yes to this. I hope this is added in as otherwise it in part defeats the discipline system. It would also be nice in that if you have a player that accumulates a lot disciplinary issues you could use that in interactions as a reason for benching, leaving off the first team squad, sending to reserves, transfer listing, etc.

[Sydney666]

I was just about to start a thread about this when I noticed that there was already a post about it, and I didn't have to go looking far to find it either.

There isn't much for me to build upon what has already been stated but in point form I will try to explain how things happened to me in my save.

I am playing as Napoli, during my first season in game.

1. My player Albiol approaches me stating that he has interest in him by a bigger club and that he wants to leave.

2. I agree to let Albiol go and make a promise.

3. Player (Albiol) is approached by a big club (Chelsea).

4. As promised I agree to begin proceedings (ie to sell the player) but not as said price. Albiol is worth 11.5 million Euros and Chelsea approach me with 8.5 million Euros. I obviously find this quite irritating so I ask Chelsea for 19.5 mil Euros.

5. Chelsea say no and end negotiations.

6. Albiol approaches me in quite a rude manner, actually the way he approached me was in line with blackmail. Could considering the amount of money involved his actions could well be illegal?

7. Again I agree to Albiol to sell him and told him the price wasn't right and I would make it on my promise, but need the right amount.

8. Albiol is happy.

9. Chelsea offer a silly amount again and I negotiate.

10. Chelsea withdraw.

11. I try to re-assure him but Albiol threatens me again, only this time he says that "he knows people" in high places at the club and that we will have mutiny at the club.

12. Nothing I can do and he leaves the room furious and I had to swallow his threats of mutiny.

13. Chelsea continue to make stupid offers.

14. A few players feel that Albiol has been treated unfairly.

15. Zuniga, another one of my players asks for a transfer because he is not happy how his team mates have been treated.

16. Albiol's description reads that he has had "too many promises broken". The only thing that it broken is the coding somewhere for this player interaction. lol.

Prior to this incident, my dressing room atmosphere was brilliant and the board was happy with it (84% I think it was at.)

This IS a bug and if anyone thinks otherwise will have mutiny on their hands...you got that SI?

I basically reloaded my save and hope it doesn't happen again.