Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2015/16

[DeafParrot]

I agree blud. Innit fam. you know dat blud.

[VamPook]

I'm assuming it means bro or something

[Razzler]

Not familiar terminology on the mean streets of Singapore, Vam?

[Net Spend Tony]

I not seen much of Walcott but when you beat Leicester at the power stadium Walcott was going through some form took his goals well and people saying him and Sanchez were playing well together.

I know you been knocked out last 16 in champions league but you have played the best team in competition past few years, I know sometimes you should have done better overall but I don't think Wenger deserves abuse like the guy in the video is giving him.

Top 4, won a trophy past 2 seasons and have some of the best players in Europe so are people complaining because you don't spend big and only signed 1 outfield player, ticket prices and team has weak mentality or are there other reasons Wenger gets abuse?

[ajw10]

People are complaining because we haven't progressed, we play some of the worst football in the Premier League and the team show the same failings and it's all down to the manager.

Why do you think this team has a so-called 'weak mentality'?

The club charges sky high prices for tickets and yet have no ambition to actually succeed. We exist solely to finish in the top four and make money for Kroenke.

[Guest]

The reason Arsenal have been knocked out by in the KO round of the Champions League is despite always being seeded in Pot 1 (this year excluded) they keep finishing 2nd which is the fault of Wenger as he it happens too often to be a coincidence & must point to him being lacking in tactics or his ability to prepare his players.

The bloke has been living off the back of past success for far too long, whatever happened to only being as good as your last game or even your last season? 2010-2016 Wenger is considered as good as 2000-2006 Wenger by too many people.

Edit: Had to check the facts, including the 2007/08 seasons Arsenal have only won their group once & that group included European powerhouses of Olympiacos, Standard Liege & AZ Alkmaar. They're flat track bullies who are unable to hack it at the top table & no, I do not consider the FA Cup to be a major trophy, it's merely historical important & well marketed.

[Net Spend Tony]

Is a bit poor you have not told the group more often. I agree you have under achieved and still don't know why you never sign a dominant centre back and a hard ball winning midfielder. I just feel sorry for Wenger getting abuse like the video above after all he has achieved.

Arsenal are level on points with city after the amount of money. Careful what you wish for, look at United and Liverpool I know it's frustrating especially when you pay so much money for a ticket and club doesn't invest in players as much as other rivals but remember where you was before Wenger took over.

[ajw10]

Is a bit poor you have not told the group more often. I agree you have under achieved and still don't know why you never sign a dominant centre back and a hard ball winning midfielder. I just feel sorry for Wenger getting abuse like the video above after all he has achieved.

Arsenal are level on points with city after the amount of money. Careful what you wish for, look at United and Liverpool I know it's frustrating especially when you pay so much money for a ticket and club doesn't invest in players as much as other rivals but remember where you was before Wenger took over.

hahahaha ok Tony.

[Guest]

They were pretty much where they are now, maybe actually better. Before the Premier League era they had recently won a couple of titles & aside from a couple of mid-table finishes they were always in the leading group. Not sure where the myth that Arsenal were crap before Wenger has come from.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

We weren't some Championship club before Wenger came along ffs We won a lot more trophies in the 10 years before Wenger came along than we have in the last 10 years.

Don't feel sorry for him, one of the best paid managers in world football but also with the safest job in world football.

[Net Spend Tony]

I'm not saying wenger should stay or go just think he deserves more respect for what he has done for around 20 years and doesn't deserve nasty comments like guy in the video. I agree he comes across stubborn, more he hears he is wrong more he will go against it to try prove he is right but he did get you to the only champions league final in your history and unbeaten through a season and won your first double.

[Guest]

Before 1990 achieving a double was something to be very proud of as it was difficult, Arsenal's last double was in 2001/02 & the other was in double easy street of the 90s

There was another manager who stuck around far longer than he should have on the basis that he was once very successful & he even managed to win a pair of European Cups, I do not see Arsenal ever being at risk of a sad relegation like Forest but the similarities are startling.

[Net Spend Tony]

We weren't some Championship club before Wenger came along ffs We won a lot more trophies in the 10 years before Wenger came along than we have in the last 10 years.

Don't feel sorry for him' date=' one of the best paid managers in world football but also with the safest job in world football.[/quote']

Haha I understand he is one of the best paid managers, doesn't spend money, play great football against the games your expected to win but roll over in big games. I think you finished around 9th when he took over from Bruce Rioch and when George graham left I don't recall you winning trophies.

Every season I say same thing dominant centre back, hard ball winning midfielder and a striker who can score every other game but you buy players you don't need and that performance at Old Trafford was shocking.

I'm just saying he has done a lot and when he does leave I hope he gets good reception rather than cheers of about time you stubborn old man that's most polite way I can put it on here

[ajw10]

WE DON'T NEED A BALL WINNING MIDFIELDER TONY. WE HAVE ONE AND HE'S ****.

We finished 5th in the season before Arsene took over btw.

[Guest]

That'll be the same George Graham who won 2 league titles (Wenger has 3) & has a very similar 10 year record to Wenger.

Edit: Wenger deserves credit for what he's done but in an era where money counts more that it ever had before his record does not trump Graham's, at best he is his equal.

[ajw10]

Oh come on. Arsene Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than George Graham.

He's failed massively over the past 2 years or so, but everything before that was either good or great from Wenger.

[Weezer]

If I were an Arsenal fan it would be the complete lack of ambition coming from the club that would get me more than anything. Chelsea are coming off a poor season and you can guarantee there will be no "we need to get back into the Champions League next season", it'll be "what do we need to do to be challenging for the title again?". Whereas Arsenal and their manager still see 4th place as a successful season. I mean Wenger saying the club is moving in the right direction is just ridiculous, Arsenal haven't 'moved' anywhere for years. They keep repeating the same old failings and mistakes over and over.

Spurs and Leicester have overtaken/caught up with them this year, what happens when Man Utd, Chelsea and maybe even Liverpool get their acts together? Without changes Arsenal can kiss goodbye to being a fixture in the top 4.

Ha, it feels weird ranting about a club that isn't your own! They're just so damn frustrating though

[SJ234]

Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than Graham. You'd have to be obtuse to only measure success in trophies and on the pitch success. It should be clear to everyone that he has transformed the club from a big name which has been quite successful into one of the elite clubs in this country and Europe (ish). Only two clubs have managed that without billionaire owners- Man U and us. It is revisionism of the extreme to not see that Wenger has been an incredible manager for this club even if at times his on the pitch successes have either been over stated or not immediately apparent to the eye.

Not sure how it can be the case that Arsenal as a club will be happy with this season. I mean if even the most ardent pro-Wenger people are annoyed by it then it is a big leap to suggest the club is so myopic it won't also be very disappointed with this season whether we finish second, fourth or fifth.

Arsenal's problems are pretty clear cut really. We are a bad team. We have a very good squad one of the best in the league if not the best. Wenger however isn't putting them into a position to succeed. Whether it be from the inexplicable approach to building play (Coquelin and Gabriel, really?), to missing our most obvious need (DM??), to not building a squad from which he can pick teams which can function together within his style of play, it is a real mess. There have always been flaws with Wenger's style of management much like there is with nearly every manager however now his judgement calls tend to be wrong in a quite obvious fashion.

He will in all likelihood still be manager next season as the club aren't going to push him though they perhaps should. There aren't any obvious candidates available any more and unless this season really falls apart he won't resign.

[Sparky9334]

Those contract extension talks with Sanchez and Ozil could be interesting if we don't make top 4.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

You're right to say it is wrong to consider onfield success and trophies the only measure of success, but you've gone too far the other way. Bit silly to call us an elite club. We're a big club, but until we start winning the league again we're a big club in the same way Liverpool are a big club.

[H.O.V.I]

Those contract extension talks with Sanchez and Ozil could be interesting if we don't make top 4.

Don't think it will be interesting, i think they would both want out.

[SJ234]

You're right to say it is wrong to consider onfield success and trophies the only measure of success' date=' but you've gone too far the other way. Bit silly to call us an elite club. We're a big club, but until we start winning the league again we're a big club in the same way Liverpool are a big club.[/quote']

We are bigger than Liverpool. Signing Ozil and Alexis showed that. That we were able to sign players of that calibre and reputation separates us from teams like Liverpool.

[Guest]

Oh come on. Arsene Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than George Graham.

He's failed massively over the past 2 years or so, but everything before that was either good or great from Wenger.

Wenger has been a much better manager for Arsenal than Graham. You'd have to be obtuse to only measure success in trophies and on the pitch success. It should be clear to everyone that he has transformed the club from a big name which has been quite successful into one of the elite clubs in this country and Europe (ish). Only two clubs have managed that without billionaire owners- Man U and us. It is revisionism of the extreme to not see that Wenger has been an incredible manager for this club even if at times his on the pitch successes have either been over stated or not immediately apparent to the eye.

Not sure how it can be the case that Arsenal as a club will be happy with this season. I mean if even the most ardent pro-Wenger people are annoyed by it then it is a big leap to suggest the club is so myopic it won't also be very disappointed with this season whether we finish second, fourth or fifth.

Arsenal's problems are pretty clear cut really. We are a bad team. We have a very good squad one of the best in the league if not the best. Wenger however isn't putting them into a position to succeed. Whether it be from the inexplicable approach to building play (Coquelin and Gabriel, really?), to missing our most obvious need (DM??), to not building a squad from which he can pick teams which can function together within his style of play, it is a real mess. There have always been flaws with Wenger's style of management much like there is with nearly every manager however now his judgement calls tend to be wrong in a quite obvious fashion.

He will in all likelihood still be manager next season as the club aren't going to push him though they perhaps should. There aren't any obvious candidates available any more and unless this season really falls apart he won't resign.

The last two seasons have been no better or worse than the preceding 8 seasons, flirting with title runs but ultimately found wanting in the league & as a rule also found wanting in Europe?

Unfortunately we're unable to compare European records because it was too different & there is of course the English club ban to consider.

Edit: Arsene has done great thinks for the club but to say the modernisation is all his doing is probably being a bit unfair on David Dein, could be a coincidence that ceased being consistently serious challengers for major honours after he stepped down from his active involvement.

We are bigger than Liverpool. Signing Ozil and Alexis showed that. That we were able to sign players of that calibre and reputation separates us from teams like Liverpool.

I think that dynamic might change next season, players like winning managers & Klopp probably has a higher standing in the game than Wenger, players will also talk to other players, would be interesting to know what Sanchez & Özil really say about Arsenal & Wenger to their friends in football.

[ajw10]

The last two seasons have been no better or worse than the preceding 8 seasons, flirting with title runs but ultimately found wanting in the league & as a rule also found wanting in Europe?

Unfortunately we're unable to compare European records because it was too different & there is of course the English club ban to consider.

Edit: Arsene has done great thinks for the club but to say the modernisation is all his doing is probably being a bit unfair on David Dein, could be a coincidence that ceased being consistently serious challengers for major honours after he stepped down from his active involvement.

The last two seasons have been worse because quite simply we have had a lot more money to spend.

Dein left during 06/07 which was a truly dreadful season. We hit a decline due to a lack of funds rather than due to Dein leaving.

[Guest]

I thought he left the season after the last title, that'll teach me for not going to wiki first.

[SJ234]

Dein himself credits Wenger extensively with the modernisation. Our decline coincided with having to pay for the stadium with low value sponsorship deals. Graham never had to deal with those sort of financial restrictions. We weren't just deciding not to spend £30million each summer and be happy with 4th. There were serious financial restrictions, it is hardly a surprise that we received new sponsorship deals, or were close to them, and we spent big. Some of Wenger's best work came with that Fabregas team.

On Liverpool/Arsenal thing I am not overly convinced if Klopp will make that much difference as ultimately players will move for money and location as well. If they believe Arsenal will decline and fall off the cliff and Liverpool will rise to the top then that changes but not sure many players will be particularly confident in saying that, yet. By all accounts Ozil and Alexis are very happy, in particular the former. May change if we fall outside of the top 4 but the rumours suggest contract negotiations with Ozil are fine. They are just rumours though.

[Guest]

George Graham created his own financial restrictions.

[SJ234]

Well yeah

Also made his squad substantially worse through ineptitude

[Guest]

Also made his squad substantially worse through ineptitude

Sounds familiar.

[ajw10]

I don't think our squad is getting worse, which makes our failures all the more frustrating.

[SJ234]

Our squad has improved a lot over the last 4 seasons. Big part of the anger currently

[PaulHartman71]

Yeah the big issue is that we have the players, the money, the resources that we never had during the poverty years - yet this season we've bottled the title which a poverty club are going to win

[SJ234]

Not sure we have even bottled it. We just weren't good enough despite having superior players and resources than the teams above us.

[PaulHartman71]

We were top of the league on New Year's. I'd say we've massively bottled it since then to allow Leicester to gain the amount of points they have on us, despite gaining 3 points by beating them ourselves.

[Guest]

Not sure we have even bottled it. We just weren't good enough despite having superior players and resources than the teams above us.

With Chelsea, Man City & Man Utd all having issues the title was there for the taking, in fact there was a guard of honour waiting to help you see out the second half of the season. Even by your usual standards the choke this season has been impressive.

[SJ234]

I think the flaws of the team (lack of viable CM pairings and lack of balance in the three behind the striker) have come together to hurt us. We entered the season with one line up which worked, those players became injured and funnily enough it all fell apart. That is not being good enough. This wasn't a mental weakness really, just us being a poor team.

It may look like a choke but it isn't. We weren't a good team which were then scared of getting across the line or performing. There hasn't been a mental collapse. We have just fallen to the level we are at.

[Rafalution]

hmm i'm not so sure, everyone seemed far more confident on the ball during the first half of the season from the game i saw. it's a pity Arsene hasn't got one last Prem title, Leicester heroics aside, it would have been nice to see

also 2.05 pts per game in the first 19 down to 1.50 since is massive, regardless of how many injuries you have.

[Retro]

I've not read the last page in length but any idea that George Graham matched Arsene Wenger is completely preposterous. My concern is that Wenger is going to hang on too long and potentially reduce his status as a legendary figure of the club's history.

I've said it many times already this season - we need a change even if it means a few years of relative struggle. The Invincibles were a group of self-motivators but this lot aren't and Wenger doesn't seem to be able to motivate them to achieve what they should be capable of.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

I don't think you can say Wenger has been improving the squad AND say that it wasn't a choke this season. The two are mutually exclusive.

[Guest]

I've not read the last page in length but any idea that George Graham matched Arsene Wenger is completely preposterous. My concern is that Wenger is going to hang on too long and potentially reduce his status as a legendary figure of the club's history.

I've said it many times already this season - we need a change even if it means a few years of relative struggle. The Invincibles were a group of self-motivators but this lot aren't and Wenger doesn't seem to be able to motivate them to achieve what they should be capable of.

I was being liberal with that one but Wenger gets too much of a free pass for what is perceived as a great managerial career when in all honesty it very much front loaded when there was only one other show in town (Man Utd) & the last decade has been par, okay, adequate or any other middle of the road adjective & then his direct trophy comparison isn't much better & in 30 years the record books will only show the trophies because nobody will care that he kept finishing 3rd of 4th while nurturing talent that by & large went on to win nothing, in fact his ability to develop young players is starting to become a bit of a myth too.

[SJ234]

hmm i'm not so sure, everyone seemed far more confident on the ball during the first half of the season from the game i saw. it's a pity Arsene hasn't got one last Prem title, Leicester heroics aside, it would have been nice to see

also 2.05 pts per game in the first 19 down to 1.50 since is massive, regardless of how many injuries you have.

When Arsenal entered the season they had two CM partnerships which worked: Arteta and Ramsey; Cazorla and Coquelin. Problem with both of those is the first relies on Arteta who is permanently injured and declining, the second is flawed for reasons set out at length by some people here. We also had only one three behind the striker set up which worked: Ramsey-Ozil-Alexis. Obviously Alexis and Ozil always play but the third player has to be more of a CM, someone who plays quite centrally and helps out in possession. Wenger teams have always required that. Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla and possibly Chamberlain were the only players who fitted that brief. Wilshere is obviously always injured, Cazorla was at CM and Chamberlain is a project so that leaves Ramsey who is also prone to injuries. Get to the end of autumn, Coquelin and Cazorla become injured. Leaving Flamini who is one of the worst players in his position in the league starting. It also meant we had not one fit player who could take the ball from the back and without Ramsey on the wing the balance in the three behind the striker was hit and miss.

Whilst we started the season well the lack of appropriate options, within the Wenger system, in two key positions scuppered us. This was compounded by a lack of structure to ensure Flamini isn't too exposed or Joel Campbell knew where to stand to give the team optimal balance. Currently we are better balanced as Iwobi is that central player but the CM situation remains a mess. Coquelin is a distinctly average footballer and whilst Elneny can take the ball from the back to just have him doing it is ineffective, as his passing is limited. On top of this our passing from deep is worsened by having Gabriel who just isn't very confident on the ball. Our defence is also more vulnerable now because Gabriel is rash and inexperienced.

[SJ234]

I don't think you can say Wenger has been improving the squad AND say that it wasn't a choke this season. The two are mutually exclusive.

Really struggle to see how they are in anyway mutually exclusive. Not that it really matters

[SJ234]

I was being liberal with that one but Wenger gets too much of a free pass for what is perceived as a great managerial career when in all honesty it very much front loaded when there was only one other show in town (Man Utd) & the last decade has been par, okay, adequate or any other middle of the road adjective & then his direct trophy comparison isn't much better & in 30 years the record books will only show the trophies because nobody will care that he kept finishing 3rd of 4th while nurturing talent that by & large went on to win nothing, in fact his ability to develop young players is starting to become a bit of a myth too.

It wasn't front loaded. Your measures of success are simplistic. Wenger did very well up till 2011. He made errors with that team but he was doing a good job in reasonably difficult circumstances. He managed to keep Arsenal in the top 4 and competitive whilst making a profit on transfers, this enabled Arsenal to build the stadium and not fall apart. More trophies should have been won in that period but just because none were won doesn't mean it was a failure or average from him.

Willingness to give young players a chance? Definitely inaccurate these days. Ability to nurture? Not a myth really.

[Rafalution]

Really struggle to see how they are in anyway mutually exclusive. Not that it really matters

Well if you only have a couple of line ups that work and they involve players that are often crocked, that's not exactly a good squad is it?

[Citizen Sandman]

If you had Drinkwater and Kante instead would you win the league

[SJ234]

Well if you only have a couple of line ups that work and they involve players that are often crocked, that's not exactly a good squad is it?

The squad is very good for player quality. The squad isn't good for how Wenger manages and plays his teams. If you gave it to say Martinez (another rightly maligned manager) he probably wouldn't have some of the same problems in relation to the CM pairing as he has more structure in that part of the game.

If you had Drinkwater and Kante instead would you win the league

Probably not. They work well in Leicester's system as a pair. Probably not as effective at Arsenal where possession is emphasised more amongst other differences.

[ajw10]

When Arsenal entered the season they had two CM partnerships which worked: Arteta and Ramsey; Cazorla and Coquelin. Problem with both of those is the first relies on Arteta who is permanently injured and declining, the second is flawed for reasons set out at length by some people here. We also had only one three behind the striker set up which worked: Ramsey-Ozil-Alexis. Obviously Alexis and Ozil always play but the third player has to be more of a CM, someone who plays quite centrally and helps out in possession. Wenger teams have always required that. Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla and possibly Chamberlain were the only players who fitted that brief. Wilshere is obviously always injured, Cazorla was at CM and Chamberlain is a project so that leaves Ramsey who is also prone to injuries. Get to the end of autumn, Coquelin and Cazorla become injured. Leaving Flamini who is one of the worst players in his position in the league starting. It also meant we had not one fit player who could take the ball from the back and without Ramsey on the wing the balance in the three behind the striker was hit and miss.

Whilst we started the season well the lack of appropriate options, within the Wenger system, in two key positions scuppered us. This was compounded by a lack of structure to ensure Flamini isn't too exposed or Joel Campbell knew where to stand to give the team optimal balance. Currently we are better balanced as Iwobi is that central player but the CM situation remains a mess. Coquelin is a distinctly average footballer and whilst Elneny can take the ball from the back to just have him doing it is ineffective, as his passing is limited. On top of this our passing from deep is worsened by having Gabriel who just isn't very confident on the ball. Our defence is also more vulnerable now because Gabriel is rash and inexperienced.

This is excellent

[ajw10]

Btw lads, if we let Arteta go to Spurs then I'm burning the stadium down

[Coulthard's Jaw]

I do not give a **** where he goes to coach.

[Guest]

It wasn't front loaded. Your measures of success are simplistic. Wenger did very well up till 2011. He made errors with that team but he was doing a good job in reasonably difficult circumstances. He managed to keep Arsenal in the top 4 and competitive whilst making a profit on transfers, this enabled Arsenal to build the stadium and not fall apart. More trophies should have been won in that period but just because none were won doesn't mean it was a failure or average from him.

Willingness to give young players a chance? Definitely inaccurate these days. Ability to nurture? Not a myth really.

Success has one measure;, winning trophies, anything else is not sporting success. What you've described is a successful businessman not a successful football coach or manager.

The players he had post Highbury were not also rans that he managed to overachieve with which you seem to be suggesting was the case & that he was dealt an unfair hand, a hand he dealt himself btw.