Can the game stop setting values and treating players based on their ability?

[RuudVanGoal90]

I've seen enough of this but what happened in my latest game with Simone Zaza just shows you that the game consider players for NTs, Awards, and set their values based on their current ability regardless of how they perform. I have signed Simone Zaza from Bayern in 2017 for 7m he wasn't performing that well and was transfer listed anyway i signed him in Jan and in 4 months he finished as Serie A's top scorer with 29 goals in his 18-19 games and it doesn't end here he went on to win the european golden shoe for 5 consecutive years scoring 35+ goals every year in Serie A and CL\EL.

So what did Zaza win with a scoring\assisting record even better than Messi and Ronaldo in-game? absolutely nothing he has never been even included in the 25 player ballon d'or list and he never gets called to Italy and his value was always sitting at 7-8m while other players who have better ability rating but aren't really performing at all gets double that value and are regulars for their NTs and contenders for the biggest awards for no reason.

Please fix this it makes the game feel extremely unrealistic and this is not the only case i've seen there are players in-game who end their careers with brilliant records and 1+ goalscoring ratio in 500+ games yet they win nothing because their current ability is lower than others.

[KnightedManager]

Reputations/CA are apparently the only things that actually matter.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with this. I bought a young English striker for peanuts in a save I had, primarily as back up and to fill up the English quotient in my squad. He had 2* CA and PA, and his report said something like potential to be a leading Championship player (I was in the Prem). For the first couple of seasons, he was just filler, making the odd sub appearance in cup games, then I had a bit of an injury crisis up front and gave the lad his chance. He hit a rich vein of form, and within two seasons, his value had shot up to £14mill, had won 5 England caps and in the last season, was the top English scorer in the PL. All from taking his chance in the first team. So it can happen.

[awulfclark]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with this. I bought a young English striker for peanuts in a save I had, primarily as back up and to fill up the English quotient in my squad. He had 2* CA and PA, and his report said something like potential to be a leading Championship player (I was in the Prem). For the first couple of seasons, he was just filler, making the odd sub appearance in cup games, then I had a bit of an injury crisis up front and gave the lad his chance. He hit a rich vein of form, and within two seasons, his value had shot up to £14mill, had won 5 England caps and in the last season, was the top English scorer in the PL. All from taking his chance in the first team. So it can happen.

I'm not sure that's telling the full story. In real life, what would that striker's value be if he was the top English scorer in the Premier League? Unless his contract were about to run out, I think it'd be a good deal more than 14 million. Five caps also seems a bit low. An Englishman who leads the PL in goals would be an almost automatic NT choice, wouldn't he?

I think the OP has a very good point: CA seems to rule a great deal more than it should. I've noticed that players in incredible form still tend to only get NT callups if their CA is at least reasonably close to their competition for places. Values also don't seem to fully reflect form, but then that could be due to the fact that lower CA players tend to have contracts reflecting that, which would necessarily depress the rated value.

Individual awards also seem to be almost entirely dependent on CA and/or reputation. A player who consistently performs better than anyone else in their league and Europe should certainly be on the Ballon d'Or shortlist at least. Maybe part of the problem is reputations aren't dynamic enough?

[griders]

Agree that CA and reputation do seem to rule the roost however there have been many instances over that years in real life that reflect this... these players finished top scorers/English goal scorers in the EPL however as they weren't at 'fashionable' clubs they constantly got overlooked by the national team and all failed to secure a transfer to a 'big club'

Dion Dublin (Coventry)

Kevin Phillips (Sunderland)

Markus Stewart (Ipswich)

James Beattie (Southampton - when they weren't!)

Andy Johnson (Crystal Palace)

The only recent 'break through' has been Harry Kane (21 last season) - yet no ones mentioning Charlie Austin who only scored 3 goals less then him in a team that was far inferior and that got relegated... admittedly it's looking like he'll get a transfer.

All this being said the OP's player should have made some progress towards breaking into the awards and he's value should have changed to reflect it!

[awulfclark]

Agree that CA and reputation do seem to rule the roost however there have been many instances over that years in real life that reflect this... these players finished top scorers/English goal scorers in the EPL however as they weren't at 'fashionable' clubs they constantly got overlooked by the national team and all failed to secure a transfer to a 'big club'

Dion Dublin (Coventry)

Kevin Phillips (Sunderland)

Markus Stewart (Ipswich)

James Beattie (Southampton - when they weren't!)

Andy Johnson (Crystal Palace)

The only recent 'break through' has been Harry Kane (21 last season) - yet no ones mentioning Charlie Austin who only scored 3 goals less then him in a team that was far inferior and that got relegated... admittedly it's looking like he'll get a transfer.

All this being said the OP's player should have made some progress towards breaking into the awards and he's value should have changed to reflect it!

You know, you make a solid point. But then, how many of these guys were essentially one-season wonders? But then again Kane is more-or-less a one season wonder, at least right now. So yeah, reputation does play a big part IRL. Though perhaps not to the extreme that FM portrays it.

[griders]

Totally agree, most were definitely one season wonders - the only exception was probably Phillips who I seem to remember scored 10+ goals for 3/4 seasons in a row... As you say there it a lot riding on Kane this year to prove otherwise, which will be more difficult as he'll be a marked man and not the unknown quantity he was last year - I guess this would have been the same for the other guys in years gone by....

[Guest]

The displayed value takes more that player CA & reputation into account, other factors include league rep, club rep & maybe even club wealth, contract value including any min fee clauses are a key aspect & then there is the nation transfer table.

That being said the displayed value isn't always a true reflection of a players actual market value as that is only known once the become a transfer target & bids are made, until a player is sold the primary function is as an estimate of market value & to assign an asset value to the player for the club's accounts.

IN the OP's example something could be going awry based on the information that has been provided however it does lack details about the players that are winning the awards & national call-ups, if he makes his save available & posts in the bugs forum SI can take a look at what is going on & use it as a reference point to make any changes that might be needed.

[awulfclark]

The displayed value takes more that player CA & reputation into account, other factors include league rep, club rep & maybe even club wealth, contract value including any min fee clauses are a key aspect & then there is the nation transfer table.

That being said the displayed value isn't always a true reflection of a players actual market value as that is only known once the become a transfer target & bids are made, until a player is sold the primary function is as an estimate of market value & to assign an asset value to the player for the club's accounts.

IN the OP's example something could be going awry based on the information that has been provided however it does lack details about the players that are winning the awards & national call-ups, if he makes his save available & posts in the bugs forum SI can take a look at what is going on & use it as a reference point to make any changes that might be needed.

Just so everyone is clear, this isn't about player "value". It's more about players performing extremely well and not even getting consideration for awards such as the Ballon d'Or, or getting called up to the NT. Not meaning to speak for the OP but I think that's what he was driving at. Player "value" I think has been beaten to death.

[Guest]

As the OP specifically referred to value in the thread title & his post I addressed that aspect along with providing additional information on how values are calculated.

As for the other aspects there just isn't enough detail in the OP to make anything other than a sweeping generalisation, we do not even know what version of FM he is playing & with the changes made for 15 that is a very important peice of information. Beyond that the additional context of who is in contention for the awards, who is being selected for the national team, what system the national team manager uses, their personality traits & preferences are also important.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Five caps also seems a bit low. An Englishman who leads the PL in goals would be an almost automatic NT choice, wouldn't he?

How many caps does Harry Kane have in real life?

[samdiatmh]

but why does it matter what their value is? unless you're selling them (which if he's that prolific, you probably aren't)

[Mojby]

Real life players do not have set values. They are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them and for the selling team, their importance to the club. Values really should mean nothing at all and I think that they should actually be removed

[forameuss]

Real life players do not have set values. They are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them and for the selling team, their importance to the club. Values really should mean nothing at all and I think that they should actually be removed

This, very much this. Always remember that there is no real life comparison for either reputation or value in FM. Value is purely a "guide price". True value - in both real life and FM - is usually the meeting point between the buyers and sellers personal valuations.

I've never really got the issue around this. If a player I believe deserved to be in the Ballon D'Or shortlist wasn't, I'd probably note it, shrug, then move on. It's a team game after all, and your player winning a personal award really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of FM. Plus, it's never really affected me. I'm pretty sure players at my Lincoln (GIB) side ended up winning the Ballon D'Or, in fact, I had five nominated, with a couple of wins, including this one (along with a World Player of the Year award bonus), one other for Jon Boxhill I'm pretty sure.

One thing that may drive this...are all the complaints coming from people who are at a date where there are still real world players? I think those ones are always going to have an advantage over generated players until they retire, then the field gets a lot more level.

[RuudVanGoal90]

The displayed value takes more that player CA & reputation into account, other factors include league rep, club rep & maybe even club wealth, contract value including any min fee clauses are a key aspect & then there is the nation transfer table.

That being said the displayed value isn't always a true reflection of a players actual market value as that is only known once the become a transfer target & bids are made, until a player is sold the primary function is as an estimate of market value & to assign an asset value to the player for the club's accounts.

IN the OP's example something could be going awry based on the information that has been provided however it does lack details about the players that are winning the awards & national call-ups, if he makes his save available & posts in the bugs forum SI can take a look at what is going on & use it as a reference point to make any changes that might be needed.

What do you wanna know? He has no release clause, on 150k p/w, his total record so far is 200 goal in 200 app in all competitions in 5 seasons. Tell me where do you want me to make my save available and i'll upload it but i am not sure if that's exactly a bug? it's just how FM has been always working.

Agree that CA and reputation do seem to rule the roost however there have been many instances over that years in real life that reflect this... these players finished top scorers/English goal scorers in the EPL however as they weren't at 'fashionable' clubs they constantly got overlooked by the national team and all failed to secure a transfer to a 'big club'

Dion Dublin (Coventry)

Kevin Phillips (Sunderland)

Markus Stewart (Ipswich)

James Beattie (Southampton - when they weren't!)

Andy Johnson (Crystal Palace)

The only recent 'break through' has been Harry Kane (21 last season) - yet no ones mentioning Charlie Austin who only scored 3 goals less then him in a team that was far inferior and that got relegated... admittedly it's looking like he'll get a transfer.

All this being said the OP's player should have made some progress towards breaking into the awards and he's value should have changed to reflect it!

These guys though were probably one season wonders but my example have been consistently winning the European golden shoe for 5 consecutive years.

[dllu]

This is one of the aspects that is most realistic about the game, because this is exactly what happens IRL. That's why Messi or Ronaldo win every award every year...

[RuudVanGoal90]

This is one of the aspects that is most realistic about the game, because this is exactly what happens IRL. That's why Messi or Ronaldo win every award every year...

That is not true if a player outscores Ronaldo and Messi for 5 straight years he will easily win the ballon d'or, IRL Messi and Ronaldo consistently score 50+ goals every season.

[Neil Brock]

I've seen enough of this but what happened in my latest game with Simone Zaza just shows you that the game consider players for NTs, Awards, and set their values based on their current ability regardless of how they perform. I have signed Simone Zaza from Bayern in 2017 for 7m he wasn't performing that well and was transfer listed anyway i signed him in Jan and in 4 months he finished as Serie A's top scorer with 29 goals in his 18-19 games and it doesn't end here he went on to win the european golden shoe for 5 consecutive years scoring 35+ goals every year in Serie A and CL\EL.

So what did Zaza win with a scoring\assisting record even better than Messi and Ronaldo in-game? absolutely nothing he has never been even included in the 25 player ballon d'or list and he never gets called to Italy and his value was always sitting at 7-8m while other players who have better ability rating but aren't really performing at all gets double that value and are regulars for their NTs and contenders for the biggest awards for no reason.

Please fix this it makes the game feel extremely unrealistic and this is not the only case i've seen there are players in-game who end their careers with brilliant records and 1+ goalscoring ratio in 500+ games yet they win nothing because their current ability is lower than others.

Is this on FM15? Which players are being selected ahead of him for Italy? How is Italy doing in the league rankings for all leagues in Europe? Would be quite interested to see the save and find out what's going on. Feel free to upload it to our FTP and let me know the file name, FTP details here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/405113-FTP-Details

[Cougar2010]

This is one of the aspects that is most realistic about the game, because this is exactly what happens IRL. That's why Messi or Ronaldo win every award every year...

That is not true if a player outscores Ronaldo and Messi for 5 straight years he will easily win the ballon d'or, IRL Messi and Ronaldo consistently score 50+ goals every season.

I've had players in past saves beat both Messi & Ronaldo, even in the first season.

In my current save Mata has been 2nd twice - 2015 & 2017 while Ronaldo didn't even make the top three last season (2018).

It wasn't as if he had a bad season either - In 2017/18 he had 22 goals, 1 assist, ave rating 7.79 while in 2018/19 he has 13 goals, 14 assists, ave rating 7.87.

Messi won while Isco was 2nd & Diego Costa 3rd.

[dllu]

That is not true if a player outscores Ronaldo and Messi for 5 straight years he will easily win the ballon d'or, IRL Messi and Ronaldo consistently score 50+ goals every season.

So you honestly believe RL awards are given out purely based on an objective analysis of a player's stats and reputation is not the main factor? Come on...

[RuudVanGoal90]

Is this on FM15? Which players are being selected ahead of him for Italy? How is Italy doing in the league rankings for all leagues in Europe? Would be quite interested to see the save and find out what's going on. Feel free to upload it to our FTP and let me know the file name, FTP details here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/405113-FTP-Details

1- Currently Kenedy, Berardi, and Cerri(who used to be Zaza's sub in my team and scores no more than 10 goals a season).

2- Italy are currently 2nd 12 points behind Endgland and 4 ahead of Spain.

3- I'll upload my savegame right away.

So you honestly believe RL awards are given out purely based on an objective analysis of a player's stats and reputation is not the main factor? Come on...

Lol so if in real life a player came in one of the top 3 leagues and topped Messi\Ronaldo in goals, assists, potm awards consistently for 5 seasons he won't build a massive reputation for himself?

[KnightedManager]

That is not true if a player outscores Ronaldo and Messi for 5 straight years he will easily win the ballon d'or, IRL Messi and Ronaldo consistently score 50+ goals every season.

Which, somewhat ironically, doesn't seem to be possible in FM.

[RuudVanGoal90]

Here is a small comparison between Simone Zaza who is 33 and only have 7 international caps and never feature in the ballon d'or 25 man list and Adnan Janujaz who is consistently featured in the top 5 ballon d'or finalist list(won it once).

http://i.imgur.com/Fr3B4BN.png

And before anyone asks Italy is 2nd in Europe leagues ranking and Bologna is a top club (won Serie A and is competing for CL) and please bear in mind these are league only numbers you can add 10-15 goals in Europe every year to get Zaza's scoring record in all competitions.

[KnightedManager]

No doubt some clever apologist will point out that Januzaj's overall rating are better bar the first two seasons. Of course nothing is wrong with the realism or the way the AI rates players!

[RuudVanGoal90]

No doubt some clever apologist will point out that Janzaj's overall rating are better bar the first two seasons. Of course nothing is wrong with the realism or the way the AI rates players!

You know if Zaza comes in the top 25 for the ballon d'or and is excluded from the final 5 list i would have no problem and i would make my peace with it but the fact that he is completely eliminated from any individual awards except those that are based on numbers and is excluded from the NT makes me feel that the game doesn't even take performance into consideration it just purely targets CA and Rep and ignores anything else.

EDIT: The game is uploaded by the name Ruudvangoal-BolognaZaza

[HUNT3R]

Of course nothing is wrong with the realism or the way the AI rates players!

This type of post doesn't help anyone. There's been an official response in this thread, asking to take a look at the save. Nothing is just getting dismissed.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Here is a small comparison between Simone Zaza who is 33 and only have 7 international caps and never feature in the ballon d'or 25 man list and Adnan Janujaz who is consistently featured in the top 5 ballon d'or finalist list(won it once).

http://i.imgur.com/Fr3B4BN.png

And before anyone asks Italy is 2nd in Europe leagues ranking and Bologna is a top club (won Serie A and is competing for CL) and please bear in mind these are league only numbers you can add 10-15 goals in Europe every year to get Zaza's scoring record in all competitions.

Are you complaining about a lack of realism here? Bear in mind, you've just posted stats of Simone Zaza scoring nearly 160 league goals in five seasons for Bologna.

[Lenzar]

Where were players like Le Tissier and Fowler in the above example? I don't remember either playing tons of games for England.

[RuudVanGoal90]

Finished this season with 51 goals in 47 apps and he is still being ignored by the national team although the coach has been changed, still waiting for the 25 ballon d'or list.

[RBKalle]

You're all missing a key point here...

Apparently Zaza is playing for the OP's club, which has become a Top Club domestically and in Europe. So you can't really compare him to one-season wonders for English mid-table (at best) sides or with solid performers at that level.

That's been a huge issue until FM14 (can't comment on 15, as I haven't played enough of it)... No matter how great your players do, if you're managing in a smaller league and/or your Top Player isn't in the highest CA bracket, he'll NEVER win an award and his NT career will be underwhelming because the CA+Rep combo will hold him back in favour of players with higher CA and from more reputable clubs or leagues.

It's even more blatant here because the OP is managing in Italy and Zaza should have good enough CA/PA to feature in the awards' shortlist.

P.S. Players' value is another annoying bit... If it's supposed to be a "guideline", it's often completely useless... Why is an unproven 17yo given a 750k value if the all-knowing AI won't settle for less than 7M because of his high (P)PA, despite the kid having played one minute of senior football?

Either give him a higher value, sparing us the illusion of having found a cheap hidden gem, or stick to the CA+performance thing and cut the asking price to a more reasonable figure.

[Some Guy!]

The real question is if he's playing FM15 and what kind of match ratings he's been getting alongside the goals.

I honestly haven't seen this issue on FM15. Players get picked up at hugely inflated prices on a good season or two, and players make the World Player of the Year lists on more than just current ability from what I've seen. For example, I'm not convinced that my current captain is anything special ability wise, but his consistent dominant performances over the years have put him right up there reputation wise, (about 4-5th in the World last I checked on the World Page). He certainly isn't on the same ability level as those players, and I'd say on in game ability he's not even 4th or 5th in my squad. He is however just a ridiculously consistent player who performs his role to perfection match after match, and that has clearly been recognised by the game.

There might be some improvements that could be made, and if OP is having these problems on FM15 it's definitely worth posting a save for the developers to have a look at, as more information for them to help improve the game experience in the future should always be welcomed. It's just not something I've experienced.

Edit:

Here is a small comparison between Simone Zaza who is 33 and only have 7 international caps and never feature in the ballon d'or 25 man list and Adnan Janujaz who is consistently featured in the top 5 ballon d'or finalist list(won it once).

http://i.imgur.com/Fr3B4BN.png

And before anyone asks Italy is 2nd in Europe leagues ranking and Bologna is a top club (won Serie A and is competing for CL) and please bear in mind these are league only numbers you can add 10-15 goals in Europe every year to get Zaza's scoring record in all competitions.

Ah, I missed this post, it seems to answer some questions. Despite his goal scoring performances, which are really quite impressive, it seems that he's not bagging the high 7.60+ match ratings to go with it (apart from his first season), while players like Januzaj are consistently setting the World alight. His age may also have an impact on his selectability in the national team.

Can you post that same information for the player who are being picked ahead of him in the national team?

[samdiatmh]

that screenie actually tells you a lot

90% of the time the top average rating player wins the Golden Ball (unless something happens like a WC win)

I would guess that Januzaj won the golden ball in 2023 (that high rating) - possibly 2022 if Belgium won the WorldCup

and Zaza's rating says that he's clearly not good enough (them low average ratings)

I'm actually surprised he's averaging that low, a regular goal scorer like that should be getting 7.5s rather easily, and yet he's not coming close (particularly after falling under a goal per game)

[Some Guy!]

that screenie actually tells you a lot

90% of the time the top average rating player wins the Golden Ball (unless something happens like a WC win)

I would guess that Januzaj won the golden ball in 2023 (that high rating) - possibly 2022 if Belgium won the WorldCup

and Zaza's rating says that he's clearly not good enough (them low average ratings)

I'm actually surprised he's averaging that low, a regular goal scorer like that should be getting 7.5s rather easily, and yet he's not coming close (particularly after falling under a goal per game)

Exactly, it seems that despite his goal scoring his not actually performing to that high a standard. Anyhow, let's consider the 2013-14 season top scorers, how they did the following season, and whether or not they were on the World Player of the Year shortlist in real life. Let's use the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Serie A:

Premier League:

Luis Suárez - FW, 31 goals - Yes

Daniel Sturridge - FW, 21 goals - No

Yaya Touré - MC, 20 goals - Yes

La Liga:

Ronaldo - FW, 31 goals - Yes

Messi - FW, 28 goals - Yes

Diego Costa - FW, 27 goals - Yes

Bundesliga:

Lewandowski - FW, 20 goals - No

Mandžukić - FW, 18 goals - No

Drmić - FW, 17 goals - No

Ligue 1:

Ibrahimović - FW, 26 goals - Yes

Aboubakar - FW, 16 goals, No

Ben Yedder - FW, 16 goals, No

Cavani - FW, 16 goals, No

Gignac - FW, 16 goals, No

Kalou - FW, 16 goals, No

(All players considered to be equal second included)

Serie A:

Immobile - FW, 22 goals - No

Toni - FW, 20 goals - No

Tevez - FW, 19 goals - No

So, of the 18 players considered here, only 6 were on the shortlist. All of these 6 were far more than just goalscorers as well. The World Player of the Year Award is more than just "score lots of goals", that's what the Golden Boot awards are for (and Zaza has apparently been winning). So yes, it seems that the problem is that whilst he's scoring goals, the games has judged him to not be performing on the same level as the other superstars.

[Cougar2010]

Here is a small comparison between Simone Zaza who is 33 and only have 7 international caps and never feature in the ballon d'or 25 man list and Adnan Janujaz who is consistently featured in the top 5 ballon d'or finalist list(won it once).

http://i.imgur.com/Fr3B4BN.png

And before anyone asks Italy is 2nd in Europe leagues ranking and Bologna is a top club (won Serie A and is competing for CL) and please bear in mind these are league only numbers you can add 10-15 goals in Europe every year to get Zaza's scoring record in all competitions.

I agree with Some Guy & samdiatmh here.

Whilst he has a good goalscoring record his average rating is very poor in comparison. Considering how much of a boost you get to the average rating from scoring a goal I'm really not sure why his average is so low. Last season in particular - 29 goals, 10 assists in 38 games but only 7.26 in a team that won the league.

I think it clearly points to the calculation using reputation & average rating as key factors.

EDIT

I think it would be interesting to see a pic of your tactics, I suspect that will show why your player gets such low ratings.

[RuudVanGoal90]

Exactly, it seems that despite his goal scoring his not actually performing to that high a standard. Anyhow, let's consider the 2013-14 season top scorers, how they did the following season, and whether or not they were on the World Player of the Year shortlist in real life. Let's use the Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, Serie A:

Premier League:

Luis Suárez - FW, 31 goals - Yes

Daniel Sturridge - FW, 21 goals - No

Yaya Touré - MC, 20 goals - Yes

La Liga:

Ronaldo - FW, 31 goals - Yes

Messi - FW, 28 goals - Yes

Diego Costa - FW, 27 goals - Yes

Bundesliga:

Lewandowski - FW, 20 goals - No

Mandžukić - FW, 18 goals - No

Drmić - FW, 17 goals - No

Ligue 1:

Ibrahimović - FW, 26 goals - Yes

Aboubakar - FW, 16 goals, No

Ben Yedder - FW, 16 goals, No

Cavani - FW, 16 goals, No

Gignac - FW, 16 goals, No

Kalou - FW, 16 goals, No

(All players considered to be equal second included)

Serie A:

Immobile - FW, 22 goals - No

Toni - FW, 20 goals - No

Tevez - FW, 19 goals - No

So, of the 18 players considered here, only 6 were on the shortlist. All of these 6 were far more than just goalscorers as well. The World Player of the Year Award is more than just "score lots of goals", that's what the Golden Boot awards are for (and Zaza has apparently been winning). So yes, it seems that the problem is that whilst he's scoring goals, the games has judged him to not be performing on the same level as the other superstars.

You're only proving my point here everyone who scored "**** loads" of goals(25+) in top leagues is included yea they won't have a chance because you have Ronaldo with 17 CL goals but at least they are included and that's only 1 season. Now what if Luis Suarez goes to outscore Messi and Ronaldo every year for 6 straight years breaking lots of scoring records, don't you think he will make it to top 3 at least? my point here is not why he is not winning it but it's rather why he is being completely ignored by the game? I have a brazilian 5 star regen that i signed from Prague he has 5 star current and 5 star potential and he achieved 7.12 and 7.39 during the last two seasons and was included in the ballon d'or short list once obviously just because of his current ability rating.

It's simple math here there are 2 players playing in the same league one scored 40 goals and 20 assists while the other had 20 and 10 the guy who scored 40 had an average rating of 7.70 and the guy who scored 20 had an average rating of 7.50 but the guy who has worse stats in every department is the one who was nominated for the ballon d'or because his current ability sits at 150 and reputation at 8000 while the better performer is at 130 and 7000 reputation, was that example simple enough?

I agree with Some Guy & samdiatmh here.

Whilst he has a good goalscoring record his average rating is very poor in comparison. Considering how much of a boost you get to the average rating from scoring a goal I'm really not sure why his average is so low. Last season in particular - 29 goals, 10 assists in 38 games but only 7.26 in a team that won the league.

I think it clearly points to the calculation using reputation & average rating as key factors.

EDIT

I think it would be interesting to see a pic of your tactics, I suspect that will show why your player gets such low ratings.

Forget the season with 7.26, how about his first season? he was 8+ and won the golden shoe and still wasn't on the shortlist, his last season he scored 51 goals and had 7.77 average and wasn't on the short list.

That's my tactic just because you asked:

http://i.imgur.com/0dZfvUU.png

*SPOILER Alert* And that's a picture of Zaza's reputation and current\potential ability compared to Divock Origi who scored less, assisted less, had lower average rating than Zaza last season but was on the list and i think it makes it pretty clear on how the game picks them

CURRENT ABILITY AND REP SPOILER: http://i.imgur.com/0dZfvUU.png

[RuudVanGoal90]

EDIT: Double post sorry.

[Cougar2010]

Forget the season with 7.26, how about his first season? he was 8+ and won the golden shoe and still wasn't on the shortlist, his last season he scored 51 goals and had 7.77 average and wasn't on the short list.

I suspect first season he would have a much lower reputation, also you have to consider that the annual awards cover Jan-Dec which includes half of two different seasons so can't be directly compared.

Not saying its right, I'm just pointing out that reputation, average rating and maybe even CA seem to hold a much bigger weighting in the calculation compared to goals & assists. Is there a better way to calculate the awards? maybe, but I don't think its an easy area to code.

That's my tactic just because you asked:

http://i.imgur.com/0dZfvUU.png

Yes, as I suspected an overly attacking formation.

Like it or not its a poor tactic and not one you would see IRL. You have six players on attack duty including the front four with two IFs. No cover or protection for the two DCs who are left isolated and its typically a tactic that would be countered to death resulting in the threads we see on the forum where a user has 50 odd shots and lost 1-0 to a counter attack.

The overly attacking tactic is the reason your striker has a poor average rating and quite possibly other players as well.

Clearly its working for you in terms of results and you are winning titles but that doesn't make it good and it won't produce attractive or realistic football. If FM has an area where it can improve this is one of them where this type of tactic should be heavily punished by the opposition teams.

[RuudVanGoal90]

I suspect first season he would have a much lower reputation, also you have to consider that the annual awards cover Jan-Dec which includes half of two different seasons so can't be directly compared.

Not saying its right, I'm just pointing out that reputation, average rating and maybe even CA seem to hold a much bigger weighting in the calculation compared to goals & assists. Is there a better way to calculate the awards? maybe, but I don't think its an easy area to code.

Yes, as I suspected an overly attacking formation.

Like it or not its a poor tactic and not one you would see IRL. You have six players on attack duty including the front four with two IFs. No cover or protection for the two DCs who are left isolated and its typically a tactic that would be countered to death resulting in the threads we see on the forum where a user has 50 odd shots and lost 1-0 to a counter attack.

The overly attacking tactic is the reason your striker has a poor average rating and quite possibly other players as well.

Clearly its working for you in terms of results and you are winning titles but that doesn't make it good and it won't produce attractive or realistic football. If FM has an area where it can improve this is one of them where this type of tactic should be heavily punished by the opposition teams.

Agreed with the first part except for the average rating as i could go about this for days and give you 100 other examples that would show you how irrelevant average rating can be it's purely reputation and ca, i totally agree about the reputation part but the CA part is way off your CA IRL is your consistent performance. An easy way to code this? i am not a programmer but if i was i'd make a rating for performance that is not related to CA\PA and it's based on the player performance(it gains from Goals, Assists, Average Rating) so if a player has 170 ability which would make him a world class player but is flopping on the field his performance rating would be low making him irrelevant when it comes to stuff like awards.

About your second part i can't say you see this kind of gung ho tactics irl but like it or not that's what works in FM 2015 i've been playing these kind of games since USM 98 and i never had to resort to this kind of tactic because naturally i am very defense minded which is why i also prefer to play in Serie A always, but you try to make a normal tactic with a mid table\relegation battling team and all you get is draws and losses and they are so typical you go 2 or 3-0 in the first half and all of a sudden the other teams turn into Barca and perform a super comeback, i've seen that **** so many times that it got very boring and the only way i found to go around this is to outscore the opponent team. I remember in previous FMs and CMs how enjoyable it was to play as Genoa and put up a perfectly made 3-5-2 with instructions for every player and so and come out with a draw or a lucky win out of their stadium but here not anymore Juve spends 100-150m a season and the next thing you know they have a squad full of 5 star players and are playing with a Barca 4-3-3 and dominating Europe.

[s1111]

I think this might come down to a research issue more than anything else. Zaza's World Reputation at the start of the game is 90 and his Current Reputation is 145. Compare that to a similar player Ciro Immobile, who's World Reputation is 116 and Current Reputation is 146. Or Alexandre Lacazette - World Reputation 113, Current Reputation 140, Kevin Volland - World Reputation 131, Current Reputation 151.

So Zaza's World Reputation is very low relative to players with similar Current Reputation. Even after 5-6 seasons of winning trophies and scoring goals his World Reputation hasn't balanced out enough to get awards nominations and NT call-ups.

[forameuss]

No matter how great your players do, if you're managing in a smaller league and/or your Top Player isn't in the highest CA bracket, he'll NEVER win an award

Hmm...

I've never really got the issue around this. If a player I believe deserved to be in the Ballon D'Or shortlist wasn't, I'd probably note it, shrug, then move on. It's a team game after all, and your player winning a personal award really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of FM. Plus, it's never really affected me. I'm pretty sure players at my Lincoln (GIB) side ended up winning the Ballon D'Or, in fact, I had five nominated, with a couple of wins, including this one (along with a World Player of the Year award bonus), one other for Jon Boxhill I'm pretty sure.

One thing that may drive this...are all the complaints coming from people who are at a date where there are still real world players? I think those ones are always going to have an advantage over generated players until they retire, then the field gets a lot more level.

Yeah, looks like you're completely wrong.

[samdiatmh]

I think this might come down to a research issue more than anything else. Zaza's World Reputation at the start of the game is 90 and his Current Reputation is 145. Compare that to a similar player Ciro Immobile, who's World Reputation is 116 and Current Reputation is 146. Or Alexandre Lacazette - World Reputation 113, Current Reputation 140, Kevin Volland - World Reputation 131, Current Reputation 151.

So Zaza's World Reputation is very low relative to players with similar Current Reputation. Even after 5-6 seasons of winning trophies and scoring goals his World Reputation hasn't balanced out enough to get awards nominations and NT call-ups.

World Rep is relevant for things like a Ballon D'or, whereas it's Home Rep that influences national call ups

and forameuss kinda proves the point here, check out their average ratings - not surprising that one of the highest won it (and actually was higher at the end of the year than the 5 of his players nominated)

[Some Guy!]

Agreed with the first part except for the average rating as i could go about this for days and give you 100 other examples that would show you how irrelevant average rating can be it's purely reputation and ca, i totally agree about the reputation part but the CA part is way off your CA IRL is your consistent performance. An easy way to code this? i am not a programmer but if i was i'd make a rating for performance that is not related to CA\PA and it's based on the player performance(it gains from Goals, Assists, Average Rating) so if a player has 170 ability which would make him a world class player but is flopping on the field his performance rating would be low making him irrelevant when it comes to stuff like awards.

About your second part i can't say you see this kind of gung ho tactics irl but like it or not that's what works in FM 2015 i've been playing these kind of games since USM 98 and i never had to resort to this kind of tactic because naturally i am very defense minded which is why i also prefer to play in Serie A always, but you try to make a normal tactic with a mid table\relegation battling team and all you get is draws and losses and they are so typical you go 2 or 3-0 in the first half and all of a sudden the other teams turn into Barca and perform a super comeback, i've seen that **** so many times that it got very boring and the only way i found to go around this is to outscore the opponent team. I remember in previous FMs and CMs how enjoyable it was to play as Genoa and put up a perfectly made 3-5-2 with instructions for every player and so and come out with a draw or a lucky win out of their stadium but here not anymore Juve spends 100-150m a season and the next thing you know they have a squad full of 5 star players and are playing with a Barca 4-3-3 and dominating Europe.

Why do you keep saying it's purely CA, it's not purely CA, we all know it's not purely CA. You can't have a reasonable argument and solve anything when you start with a statement that is categorically false.

A very basic way of describing this would be just to look at any of these World Player of the Year shortlists that the game gives. Just taking one from a test save I find that of the 35 players on the list, only 18 of the top 25 CA made it. Players as low as the ~80th rank in that regard made the list. It's a lot more complicated than just CA, and appears to be some mix of PCA, Reputation factors and performance ratings (i.e. Man of the Match awards, average ratings, goals, assists, etc.).

[RBKalle]

Hmm...

Yeah, looks like you're completely wrong.

Good job in conveniently leaving out the part where I was referring to FM14 and older editions...

It's possible that things are better in FM15, but I'm also curious to know from how far into the future those screenshots are... Probably once the gameworld has "lost" all the original Superstars, the playing field is a bit more even and now a world-beater can indeed get his deserved recognition when not playing in a Top League...

In my current FM14 save, my top-scoring striker has NEVER made Ballon d'Or shortlist once, despite bagging an average of 35 league goals (in 20 odd apps) and reaching double-digits in the Champions League we've won three times already. All of that with a 9.10-9.30 average rating.

Basically Messi/Ronaldo figures, but in a league ranked around 15th, and with a CA around 150.

Again, until FM14, you can't win an award unless you're playing in a Top League (by reputation) and have a CA in the highest two brackets.

[Cougar2010]

Basically Messi/Ronaldo figures, but in a league ranked around 15th, and with a CA around 150.

There is the problem right there: The league is ranked 15th.

Again, until FM14, you can't win an award unless you're playing in a Top League (by reputation) and have a CA in the highest two brackets.

When have you ever seen a player IRL win a continental/world award and not play in a top league?

[RuudVanGoal90]

Why do you keep saying it's purely CA, it's not purely CA, we all know it's not purely CA. You can't have a reasonable argument and solve anything when you start with a statement that is categorically false.

A very basic way of describing this would be just to look at any of these World Player of the Year shortlists that the game gives. Just taking one from a test save I find that of the 35 players on the list, only 18 of the top 25 CA made it. Players as low as the ~80th rank in that regard made the list. It's a lot more complicated than just CA, and appears to be some mix of PCA, Reputation factors and performance ratings (i.e. Man of the Match awards, average ratings, goals, assists, etc.).

Why do you take half of what i said? i said purely CA AND Reputation.

I agree with the above we sometimes see insane scoring numbers in leagues out of the top 5-10 and it's understandable why they are not considered for awards, they even get less points for goals than in the top 3 leagues. But my example here is playing in a league ranked the second.

Zaza numbers so far in the 2026-27 season 42 apps 51 goals 7.74 rating, he also just broke Ronaldo's record of 17 goals in one season in UCL so let's see if that's enough for him to get on the list this year.

[RBKalle]

There is the problem right there: The league is ranked 15th.

Still, CL winner and topscorer... while many of the players in the Top3 haven't made it past the Quarterfinals and/or haven't scored much and/or had much lower AvR in the competition.

I can live with him not winning every year, but not even making the final shortlist is insane...

When have you ever seen a player IRL win a continental/world award and not play in a top league?

The (then) much-disputed choice of Igor Belanov from USSR league.

Then Savicevic and Pancev (from fluke CL-winner Red Star Belgrade) were runner-ups, Bergkamp and Litmanen (both Ajax) finished 3rd.

Other relative "dark horses", in terms of nation and club, have been on the podium in a more distant past too. They weren't many, but it happened, at least before it all became a marketing gimmick...

[RuudVanGoal90]

Still, CL winner and topscorer... while many of the players in the Top3 haven't made it past the Quarterfinals and/or haven't scored much and/or had much lower AvR in the competition.

I can live with him not winning every year, but not even making the final shortlist is insane...

The (then) much-disputed choice of Igor Belanov from USSR league.

Then Savicevic and Pancev (from fluke CL-winner Red Star Belgrade) were runner-ups, Bergkamp and Litmanen (both Ajax) finished 3rd.

Other relative "dark horses", in terms of nation and club, have been on the podium in a more distant past too. They weren't many, but it happened, at least before it all became a marketing gimmick...

you can't compare Eredivise or even Russian league with a league ranked 15 tbh, the only case i could agree with you is if that player in addition to these numbers has a world cup\euro to remember.

[Some Guy!]

Why do you take half of what i said? i said purely CA AND Reputation.

I agree with the above we sometimes see insane scoring numbers in leagues out of the top 5-10 and it's understandable why they are not considered for awards, they even get less points for goals than in the top 3 leagues. But my example here is playing in a league ranked the second.

Zaza numbers so far in the 2026-27 season 42 apps 51 goals 7.74 rating, he also just broke Ronaldo's record of 17 goals in one season in UCL so let's see if that's enough for him to get on the list this year.

What's his stats over the calendar year?

So I'm assuming that this is FM15. It comes across as a more extreme example of Luca Toni, who whilst being an outstanding goalscorer never got anywhere near that recognition. Even doing well to this day in fact.

Again, doing my quick test there it seemed there was more to it than just reputation and CA, as there were numerous players on the list who were outside even the top 50 for both reputation factors and CA. I actually thought it would track World Reputation well, as that would make the most sense, as that is essentially what I thought the list was, the top 35 most reputable players in the World at the time, but it seemed that performance over that year actually had to have a big impact.

The question becomes then, why is Zaza's reputation so low that his performances aren't either bumping it up, or the performances alone aren't putting him in that list. If he has been breaking Ronaldo's record for scoring in a Champions League season (is this from the qualifying rounds, or group stages by the way?), then the question would have to be why he's not getting a sizable World Reputation bump from such a feat. Personally, I think he'd get quite the reputation out of such, but equally I can see from the screens that you posted that you're somewhat cherry picking figures. That is, the first season you have been talking about would have had no impact, as it appears to only be six months of that season, and he wasn't as impressive the following season, that is, it wasn't a full calendar year of performances, and it would have been when his reputation should have been the lowest.

In any case though, based on what you've said something funny might be going on, and you should probably upload a save for them SI team to pick over at some point so they can see if there is something they should change in the future.

[RuudVanGoal90]

What's his stats over the calendar year?

So I'm assuming that this is FM15. It comes across as a more extreme example of Luca Toni, who whilst being an outstanding goalscorer never got anywhere near that recognition. Even doing well to this day in fact.

Again, doing my quick test there it seemed there was more to it than just reputation and CA, as there were numerous players on the list who were outside even the top 50 for both reputation factors and CA. I actually thought it would track World Reputation well, as that would make the most sense, as that is essentially what I thought the list was, the top 35 most reputable players in the World at the time, but it seemed that performance over that year actually had to have a big impact.

The question becomes then, why is Zaza's reputation so low that his performances aren't either bumping it up, or the performances alone aren't putting him in that list. If he has been breaking Ronaldo's record for scoring in a Champions League season (is this from the qualifying rounds, or group stages by the way?), then the question would have to be why he's not getting a sizable World Reputation bump from such a feat. Personally, I think he'd get quite the reputation out of such, but equally I can see from the screens that you posted that you're somewhat cherry picking figures. That is, the first season you have been talking about would have had no impact, as it appears to only be six months of that season, and he wasn't as impressive the following season, that is, it wasn't a full calendar year of performances, and it would have been when his reputation should have been the lowest.

In any case though, based on what you've said something funny might be going on, and you should probably upload a save for them SI team to pick over at some point so they can see if there is something they should change in the future.

How about we forget about the ballon d'or, let's say that's just rigged and look at this:

- Serie A All-Time Scorer (290 Goal)

- Most CL Goals in One Season (19 Goal)

- Consistently scoring 35-40+ goals every season for the past 7 seasons

- 7 Time Adidas Golden Shoe Winner

- CL Winner, Serie A Winner

36 Years of age and only has 7 caps, he never gets called to Italy with so many different coaches.

Honestly doesn't that sound funny? and btw i already uploaded my save game but i never got an official response since then.

[Guest]

To ensure that the correct person at SI is aware of your issue it is bets to start a thread in the bugs forum & follow the bug reporting guidelines that are linked in the forum header, if you've posted a short linked to a file-sharing site in this thread then it could easily be missed by those who need to see it.