Fighting the losing battle.

[Svenc]

I'd prefer to look at a match or two which reveals how you might be playing the game (matches can be saved, there's an option for that on each matches' main screen, just a few kb). Not random ones though, perhaps such you have no idea why what happened whatever happened and/or tried to change things around to show what it is you're doing.

Your starting tactics as said by HUNT3R wasn't any truly really outright horrid, plus the AI isolates its lone forwards frequently too and seperates it from build-up (I've actually tested and a lot of the shots were actually from different players still rather than the FWD). My suspicion was that you were mainly caught of for having a mediocre team from the get go completely lacking confidence (how much that was fueled by your man management who knows) and thus making more errors as the one above in the video (and this was Barcelona!). There's nothing wrong with WBs as such, even on both flanks, as long as you realize they are an inherently slightly more risky option (check their discription and in their individual instructions the options that are by default activated). And that with your combination you have wide players pushing forward all game if never changed. That is always movement for which somebody has to cover -- and for which that somebody eventually may leave his position too, as the centre back does in the above video by being forced to handle a threat all out wide far from his supposedly position, which obviously is a little risky.

Your general insincts didn't sound all bad, like taking out the higher tempo and play wider instructions when things didn't go your way, as obviously a higher tempo game leads to more errors and if players position wider it takes longer for them to get back into their defensive shape when the ball is dropped. But that's baby steps as you still had those wing backs flying up and down on both flanks, in my opinion. Maybe the team was this poor or full of ungelled players, inconsistent youngsters that this was alwys going to be a struggle? But that is, without taking a look at saves, guesswork. :-)

[LCFCEaves31]

I'd prefer to look at a match or two which reveals how you might be playing the game (matches can be saved, there's an option for that on each matches' main screen, just a few kb). Not random ones though, perhaps such you have no idea why what happened whatever happened and/or tried to change things around to show what it is you're doing.

Your starting tactics as said by HUNT3R wasn't any truly really outright horrid, plus the AI isolates its lone forwards frequently too and seperates it from build-up (I've actually tested and a lot of the shots were actually from different players still rather than the FWD). My suspicion was that you were mainly caught of for having a mediocre team from the get go completely lacking confidence (how much that was fueled by your man management who knows) and thus making more errors as the one above in the video (and this was Barcelona!). There's nothing wrong with WBs as such, even on both flanks, as long as you realize they are an inherently slightly more risky option (check their discription and in their individual instructions the options that are by default activated). And that with your combination you have wide players pushing forward all game if never changed. That is always movement for which somebody has to cover -- and for which that somebody eventually may leave his position too, as the centre back does in the above video by being forced to handle a threat all out wide far from his supposedly position, which obviously is a little risky.

Your general insincts didn't sound all bad, like taking out the higher tempo and play wider instructions when things didn't go your way, as obviously a higher tempo game leads to more errors and if players position wider it takes longer for them to get back into their defensive shape when the ball is dropped. But that's baby steps as you still had those wing backs flying up and down on both flanks, in my opinion. Maybe the team was this poor or full of ungelled players, inconsistent youngsters that this was alwys going to be a struggle? But that is, without taking a look at saves, guesswork. :-)

Sorry for my late reply, I have been putting work first...

I can put videos up, although after I decided to stop being complacent/lazy, I have won 3 out of 3 with my new club. Reacting in the proper manner during the matches.

First game, was close without many clear cut chances, made a couple of subs and tactical changes to try and make us a little more offensive and we grabbed a goal in 86th minute.

Second game, away against 4th in the table, made us a play on the counter as they pressed us high up the pitch and struggled to keep hold of the ball in the first game. Within about 15 minutes we were 3-0 up!! They pulled one back before half time, from a penalty, played in behind and my centre back tried to catch him up and dived in, stone wall penalty. I decided to drop us back a bit further to avoid another long ball over the top, even though it was first time we had been caught out, because the opposition passed the ball around and were patient, but didn't want to get out again... However, 5 mins into the 2nd half, we were and gave away another penalty! Started to panic a bit, but we made it 4-2 and won the game.

Third game, this was a first as we went a goal behind after 2 minutes, sloppy start, from a long throw, wasn't dealt with and they pounced. We basically saw them pass it around at ease in the first 15 mins, so although we were caught out in the last game by the long ball over the top, I didn't really have a choice but to push up and close them down. It worked, they rarely threatened and we ran out 3-1 winners.

So my only question is other than dropping deeper, are there any other ways of stopping the long ball over the top from catching you out? Pressing and closing the ball down to stop the ball being played in the first place is an option, but the deeper you drop, the harder this becomes, no?

[samdiatmh]

you can put a DC on cover duty

he'll naturally drop a little deeper and sweep up those through balls (or that's the theory behind it)

[LCFCEaves31]

Right, I have just lost away at a team below us in the league, and we were extremely average. How do I upload videos for you to watch?

[Cougar2010]

Right, I have just lost away at a team below us in the league, and we were extremely average. How do I upload videos for you to watch?

Save the PKM, then upload it to a file sharing site for us to download.

Then post a pic of the tactics you used in the match.

[LCFCEaves31]

Any file sharing sites you recommend?

[LCFCEaves31]

Just lost again... thought it was too good to be true to finally crack this game. I have saved the match again. I must be missing something, because I am sure we were the much better team. We conceded yet another goal from a corner, but I set my pre match training on def set pieces... guess it wont work over night.

[HUNT3R]

Simply setting it to Def Set Pieces won't prevent you from conceding from set pieces at all. You'll just be better (in theory) at set piece defending.

[LCFCEaves31]

Simply setting it to Def Set Pieces won't prevent you from conceding from set pieces at all. You'll just be better (in theory) at set piece defending.

I don't expect us to never concede from them, but the ratio isn't good!

[LCFCEaves31]

And if it isn't corners, its penalties.

[LCFCEaves31]

Hi. Again work has dragged me away from here for a few days.

Here is the formation I have been using. In the last game I experimented a little with roles, but here is what I started with.

4411 - Standard - Flexible - Team Instructions ( Pass into Space, Work Ball Into Box)

AF (A)

AM (A)

Winger (A) CM (S) BWM (D) Winger (A)

FB (S) CB (D) CB (D) FB (S)

GK

During the last game in which we drew 1-1, After 10 minutes, I changed to drop a bit deeper, as the ball over the top was causing issues again. That stopped and we started to keep the ball better and scored after 25 mins. 1-0 at HT, fairly comfortable.

2nd half, they made a change and played with a pacey striker who got in a couple of times, but his finishing let him down. But, we still had the better of the possession, but that doesn't mean a lot. I was not happy with the lack of contribution from my CM (S) who is one of our better players. I changed him to deep lying playmaker, and straight away he started to make himself available to start moves, but having all the attack minded players on attack, meant there was little in front of him to keep the move flowing. So, I made the Attacking Mid role to Enganche... looking back, this is also an attacking role, so I can see why it didn't really help.

My question is, are there any attacking mid/centre forward partnerships that work poorly I should avoid? What do people find success with? I do try and experiment, but fear if I go on a downward trend again as I did with my last club I will get the sack!

In the end, we gave away another penalty, this time from a long throw in that I thought we had dealt with, seems my centre back decided to push someone over in the area though who was nowhere near the play...

[Cougar2010]

I don't understand why the balls over the top are giving you such an issue tbh.

Yes it happens but from your posts I get the impression it happens much more than it does for me. I never use the drop deeper order and rarely have an issue. The only thing I do differently is that I have a stopper/cover combo rather than two DCs on defend.

The other thing I want to comment on it two attacking roles up front, its something I seem to mention a lot but I hate it. Your striker should be on a support duty as its his job to receive possession in the transition phase and create the space for your AM to exploit. As it stands you have four players running away from the ball when your team is looking to pass it forwards.

[LCFCEaves31]

I don't understand why the balls over the top are giving you such an issue tbh.

Yes it happens but from your posts I get the impression it happens much more than it does for me. I never use the drop deeper order and rarely have an issue. The only thing I do differently is that I have a stopper/cover combo rather than two DCs on defend.

The other thing I want to comment on it two attacking roles up front, its something I seem to mention a lot but I hate it. Your striker should be on a support duty as its his job to receive possession in the transition phase and create the space for your AM to exploit. As it stands you have four players running away from the ball when your team is looking to pass it forwards.

On the balls over the top, I have found it a massive issue, but then again, both my centre backs as you say on just set to defend, and neither are very quick across the ground. I have got a loan player who plays centre back who is a lot quicker, but in general, not a great defender (plus he has gifted a goal and a penalty when he has played).

On the attacking players, I did think that as I was watching my last match, all the players ran away while my deep lying playmaker dropped to try and start a move.

I will try a support role for my striker. I do not want to change my wingers from attack, because they cause a big threat, and have gone off wingers on support unless I have an inside forward.

[Cougar2010]

On the attacking players, I did think that as I was watching my last match, all the players ran away while my deep lying playmaker dropped to try and start a move.

I will try a support role for my striker. I do not want to change my wingers from attack, because they cause a big threat, and have gone off wingers on support unless I have an inside forward.

Your wingers aren't a problem because they are starting from a deeper position and initially hitting the space between MRL & DRL which gives a passing target. Just the ST on support is enough to balance your tactic IMO.

[LCFCEaves31]

Your wingers aren't a problem because they are starting from a deeper position and initially hitting the space between MRL & DRL which gives a passing target. Just the ST on support is enough to balance your tactic IMO.

I have changed my centre backs to a cover and stopper combo, see if I can combat the issues with the ball over the top.

As for my striker/attack mid combo, I am going to try Attack Mid (A) and F9 (S). After reading the descriptions within the game, it will be interesting to see how they play... although, I must reinforce the fact that I am Walsall in League 1, my players are average for that league and also I only have two strikers... neither of which seem to be particularly suited to a support role up front, but I am going to see how it pans out anyway.

[Cougar2010]

The only issue I sometimes have with a F9 is they have a tendency to take long shots a lot, you may need to add a player instruction to them to shoot less often to tone it down.

I want to also add that just because you are in League 1 doesn't make your players poor or incapable. They are playing against opposition players of a similar standard and are very capable of playing almost any role. Its a case of trial & error to see what suits them.

Ok so your current strikers are maybe more suited to a poacher/AF type role playing off the last man which means you have choices to make going forwards, do you get more strikers so you can play two up top or do you replace your current ones with others that suit your tactic better?

[LCFCEaves31]

The only issue I sometimes have with a F9 is they have a tendency to take long shots a lot, you may need to add a player instruction to them to shoot less often to tone it down.

I want to also add that just because you are in League 1 doesn't make your players poor or incapable. They are playing against opposition players of a similar standard and are very capable of playing almost any role. Its a case of trial & error to see what suits them.

Ok so your current strikers are maybe more suited to a poacher/AF type role playing off the last man which means you have choices to make going forwards, do you get more strikers so you can play two up top or do you replace your current ones with others that suit your tactic better?

Well I would like to bring in more ideal replacements, as two are on loan anyway and will go back to their club at the end of the season. There are only 5 more games until the end of the season, so I will trial what I have for now.

[LCFCEaves31]

1-0 win, wasn't great but changed it during the game to hold on for the win as we were playing with the tactic for the first time. Next game, 4-0, then they score from... a ball over the top!! Shock horror...

[Boiiing]

My Formation

DLF (Attack)

IF (Support) Winger (Attack)

BWM (Support) CM (Defend) AP (Attack)

WB(Attack) CB (Defend) CB (Cover) WB (Support)

GK (def)

As someone who often plays with a lone striker, maybe I can see where you're coming from.

• I have my striker as CF as opposed to DLF, because he's better at the former, and he's on "support" rather than "attack", with my IF on "attack" in an attempt to get some movement between the lines there. Both of these players are set to "roam". If the IF were as capable of playing as a striker as the striker is at playing IF and other AM roles, I'd have them swapping positions, too.
  
• My most forward winger is on "support" rather than "attack", and instead of a BWM in midfield I have a second winger, on "attack". Where you have an AP and CM, I have two CMs, either with one each on attack/defend, or both on automatic (it changes depending on the opposition and which of my players are playing in midfield, because some players are significantly better at making decisions than others).
  
• I was considering trying a WB or two, but think I will stick with my bog-standard FBs, now - thanks for the advice Oh, and CD roles and duties differ from yours too, depending on who's playing, which again depends on who the opposition is - I don't put two cloggers in against speedy strikers, and don't put two tiny, cultured defenders in against ogres who will head the ball and my defenders through the back of the net.
  

I have always been a one tactic man, playing a style (or trying) that I like to watch. I have refused to go to a defensive, route one style when playing away against a better team.

Basically, I've tried to build a squad that allows me to react to the type of opponent. The key to doing well (at least for me) seems to be being able to adapt, not just before the match in your team selection, etc., but also during the match, based on what your opponent does (for example, if you go a goal up and the opposing team comes forward more, you may need to change players' duties, roles, or even your whole formation, to become more resilient and, perhaps, hit them on the break). My players (or perhaps just my general tactics) just aren't good enough to beat the top, top teams in my division, or even to beat the teams who try to grind out a draw or snatch a win, but by keeping an eye on what's going on during the match I can turn losses into draws, and draws into wins.

I don't know if any of that helps at all?

[Boiiing]

You had 1 attacking midfielder on Attack, yes, but it was the winger and he'll stay wide.

Mine don't! In fact that's the main reason I had trouble playing the way I intended (i.e. with crosses coming in from wide for a TM or AF to net or to nod down for another player to score from) when I bought them. Both wingers like to want to cut in and terrorise the defence by running at them, and then shooting. It was very frustrating, until I decided to go with it instead of fighting it.

[Boiiing]

On the balls over the top, I have found it a massive issue, but then again, both my centre backs as you say on just set to defend, and neither are very quick across the ground.

What about their height? Heading and jumping ability? I don't know if that comes into play in terms of balls over the top, or more just for corners and the like, but it might be worth looking at.

[Cougar2010]

Mine don't! In fact that's the main reason I had trouble playing the way I intended (i.e. with crosses coming in from wide for a TM or AF to net or to nod down for another player to score from) when I bought them. Both wingers like to want to cut in and terrorise the defence by running at them, and then shooting. It was very frustrating, until I decided to go with it instead of fighting it.

The main reasons they come infield are:

A) They prefer their inside foot so left footed on the right, right footed on the left.

B) The AI managers use their OIs to force your wingers infield.

I've found a good way to counter it is to teach them PPMs - "Hugs Line" really keeps them wide while "Run with ball down right/left" also helps.

[LCFCEaves31]

Thanks for all the advice.

Setting my striker and attacking mid on roam seems to be creating a bit more movement. Still not quite what I wanted at the moment, but il give it time, and hopefully more suited players next season now this season is over.

One thing you might be able to help with... Because my wide mids are set as wingers, they do seem a bit isolated. They burst down the wing, which is what they are supposed to do, but if they encounter any quick full backs, they will look to offload the ball, and again, they would do because I have a TI set as 'work ball into box'. I just feel as though they are a bit of a spare part and with the type of football and movement I'm after, a pateint 'Arsenal esq' I suppose style around the penalty area, I could be doing something else. And as my lone striker is an F9 or deep lying forward on support they're isn't always a player to aim the cross at. Inside forwards, do people have success with them? I guess you'd have overlapping fullbacks, but I am worried about leaving my defence shirt in numbers by doing that.

[HUNT3R]

People have success with every role, so it's a strange question.

You need a vision of how you want to play. If you have a Winger/Attack, he must be able to have players close enough to supply him so he can do his thing - run at defenders and cross. When he does, there needs to be players in the box to aim to. So decide how you want to cross. Make sure there are targets to aim for. On the other hand, if you don't want that from your AMR, don't use a winger.

[samdiatmh]

People have success with every role, so it's a strange question.

You need a vision of how you want to play. If you have a Winger/Attack, he must be able to have players close enough to supply him so he can do his thing - run at defenders and cross. When he does, there needs to be players in the box to aim to. So decide how you want to cross. Make sure there are targets to aim for. On the other hand, if you don't want that from your AMR, don't use a winger.

I've found winger-attack to actually go for it themselves, it's a winger support that seems to get out wide and whip them in, especially with more recent versions

[HUNT3R]

I've found winger-attack to actually go for it themselves, it's a winger support that seems to get out wide and whip them in, especially with more recent versions

If the space is there, they could possibly. Winger/Attack roles bomb forward whereas the Support will support play and hang back more.

[LCFCEaves31]

I have found this the most frustrating FM game. I get 5-6 games playing good attacking football, then something comes along to ruin it. One defeat or a player all of a sudden disrupting the team, and the minute the moral is effected slightly, what I start watching is rubbish!!

Claudio Ranieri gets slagged off for being a tinkerman, but you need to be on this!

(By the way, I am not having a go, I am just still trying to understand how it works fully compared to older versions I have played).

[LCFCEaves31]

Hi chaps.

Got another question for you. Just won the last few games, 4-0 and 5-0. Chuffed, obviously and we are playing the style almost how I have always aimed for. Plus after 15 games we are top. But I have noticed in some matches my assistant manager pops up during the game saying something along the lines of "the gap between the midfield and defence is too big", then it gives me an option to change mentalities.

Can someone explain what this is directed at exactly? My formation and roles are as followed:

F9 (S)

AM (A)

W (A) (or WM (S) depending on player selected) CM (S) BWM (D) W (A)

FB (A) CD (x) CD © FB (S)

GK (S)