i try to buy player for 30mil, get rejected, ai team buys him week later for 8 mil.

[Turbodave222]

Hey guys, i'm not a regular ranter about the game, i love it with all my heart and have been playing the fm's and cm's as since i could read a bit of english (am 34y old and been playing since version with van basten, romario etc...).

Am doing long term saves, and as i'm playing on a daily base, i've noticed i get a lot of cases where i try to buy the player, i offer triple of quadruple his value, and it keeps getting rejected or negotiated to absurd values.

So i back down and leave the player alone, to see f.e. newcastle bid for him a week later his marketvalue. Then it gets accepted and when i try to offer that amount too, i get negotiated to absurd value or rejected again.

This makes the game unfair compared to AI.

i'm now at a stage where i cant buy players below 40 or 50 mil euro, and my competition can buy it at market value.

Anyone of you noticed it too?

[HUNT3R]

The obvious question is why aren't you keeping tabs on a player you're obviously interested in and buying him for that price a week later?

[Karnack]

The obvious question is why aren't you keeping tabs on a player you're obviously interested in and buying him for that price a week later?

He said he tried doing that.

[HUNT3R]

Yeah, that's my bad, but why wait for the AI to make the bid first? How sure are you there aren't any add-ons?

Also, who is he playing for and who are you managing?

[Karnack]

Could it have something to do with your club being very rich and thus making the AI up the bid because they know you can pay it?

Are there any rivalries between you and the teams you try to buy from? The manager not liking you for example?

Are you offering add-ons or just the full sum?

Are the clubs that get the lower bids higher rep than yours?

I believe these are a few of the factors that might weigh in on transfers. I might be wrong.

[Torminator]

Are you a rival? Are you and the opposition manager on good terms or bad terms? Are you competitors?

There are a lot of factors that influence the asking price.

I do the exact same thing. As man utd i sold players for 30 million to clubs abroad while rejecting bids from chelsea and Man city of 45 million. And I refuse to sell to Jose Mourinho whereever he is coaching.

[Turbodave222]

he plays at schalke. i'm udinese, the team he went too was newcastle. I hardly use the media, so very little chance that their manager doesnt like me.

i bid 30 mil (15 upfront, 15 on 48 months), 20 % clause on next profit on sale.

he went for 8.75 mil to newcastle. Offcourse they will have offered clauses, but will those clauses exceed the 21.25 mil to match my bid?

Got another case where the player played at juventus. I bid more then 80 mil euro (completely cash full upfront). Then later in the period he went to psg for little more then his marketvalue.

[HUNT3R]

A week is a long time in football. You make a big bid and it gets rejected. Player gets upset and demands a move. Team now wants to sell. In comes an AI club and buys him.

As for you bidding at the same time as the AI that week later, I can't tell you. If you have a save from before you make that second bid that you think matches the AI accepted bid, report it in the bugs forum and upload a copy of your save.

[Adzke]

Wouldn't a team then look to offer him out near the price it knows someone is willing to offer? This sounds like one for the bug section if the account holds true.

[Keep Them N'Guessen]

A week is a long time in football. You make a big bid and it gets rejected. Player gets upset and demands a move. Team now wants to sell. In comes an AI club and buys him.

Come off it, a club would not change its stance from £30m being unacceptable to £8m being acceptable just because the player wants to leave. If anything surely the club would go back to the club who originally offered £30m trying to get the best deal possible?

[HUNT3R]

Come off it' date=' a club would not change its stance from £30m being unacceptable to £8m being acceptable just because the player wants to leave. If anything surely the club would go back to the club who originally offered £30m trying to get the best deal possible?[/quote']

Getting 30m for an unhappy player requesting to leave and who's valued at around 8m only anyway? Good luck getting almost 4 times his value when you're forced to sell. It is cheap yes. I would have tried 12-15m, but knowing that I might not even get that.

[Cougar2010]

Come off it' date=' a club would not change its stance from £30m being unacceptable to £8m being acceptable just because the player wants to leave. If anything surely the club would go back to the club who originally offered £30m trying to get the best deal possible?[/quote']

Your first question should be why is the OP offering £30m in the first place?

Your initial offer should either be an enquiry or a bid which isn't higher than his value.

[themadsheep2001]

I'm more interested in what made him upset in the first place. If it was the initial bid, then why not follow up?

[themadsheep2001]

A week is a long time in football. You make a big bid and it gets rejected. Player gets upset and demands a move. Team now wants to sell. In comes an AI club and buys him.

As for you bidding at the same time as the AI that week later, I can't tell you. If you have a save from before you make that second bid that you think matches the AI accepted bid, report it in the bugs forum and upload a copy of your save.

If he is bidding after the AI, I can see why a higher price might be asked.

If he is bidding before then I'd upload that.

[Marabak]

Obviously this is all speculation as we can't see the OPs save game and thus only have his word for it, but if the selling club rejected his £30m offer, which unsettled the player but unfortunately after the OPs club had been rejected, I'd say it was very realistic for the selling club to not be proactive and at least enquire back with the OPs club whether they were still interested in buying their player for something close to the OPs original offer.

And just because the player becomes "unhappy" also doesn't mean that the selling club are automatically willing to let the player go, neither mind for a lower amount than they were offered a week prior.

[Guest]

t would be the ideal scenario however it would also significantly increase the processing requirements.

As for the OP's issues it's tough to make a call because all the facts are not known but I would be surprised to find out that Schalke dropped their acceptable valuation by so much in such a short period of time, even for an unhappy player. IT sounds like one or more other factors are in play in this scenario.

If there's a save shortly before the OP's initial attempt to sign the player then making it available to SI would probably be appreciated.

[johnhughthom]

If he is bidding after the AI, I can see why a higher price might be asked.

Well, not really. We are constantly told that the player and the AI aren't treated any differently, yet the AI pretty much always seem to accept a bunch of similar bids from other AI clubs. It would make logical sense for the AI to think "we already have a solid bid, lets try to get more from any other interested parties", but playing the game and watching situations unfold, that line of thinking doesn't appear to happen.

Until the player gets involved.

[Cougar2010]

Well, not really. We are constantly told that the player and the AI aren't treated any differently, yet the AI pretty much always seem to accept a bunch of similar bids from other AI clubs. It would make logical sense for the AI to think "we already have a solid bid, lets try to get more from any other interested parties", but playing the game and watching situations unfold, that line of thinking doesn't appear to happen.

Until the player gets involved.

Thats a pretty straight forward explanation tbh.

The AI clubs are coded to more or less negotiate the same way and its all done behind the scenes so its no surprise that all the AI controlled buying clubs reach a similar price.

The clear difference here is that the human user has not matched the AI buying clubs ability at negotiation and has therefore not agreed a similar price.

The answer is not that a human user can't match the AI negotiation but that in these cases the human user simply hasn't which is entirely down to their negotiating ability.

[Hugo kokinado]

Stop making excuses,tell me an instance where something similar happened irl?It's ridiculous to think that any club after rejecting a 30M bid would accept an 8M bid a week later,no matter what the circunstances are.It's something that has happen for years and needs to be fixed.

[HUNT3R]

Stop making excuses,tell me an instance where something similar happened irl?It's ridiculous to think that any club after rejecting a 30M bid would accept an 8M bid a week later,no matter what the circunstances are.It's something that has happen for years and needs to be fixed.

The club didn't go from 30m to 8m. They went from 'we don't want to sell' to 'Okay, we need to sell the unhappy player'.

[Svenc]

This is a different scenario, where the AI has already accepted a bid, apparently. Overall though not to spread false information, but wasn't it said that the AI had no or limited memory of bids? I.e. every bid is a new bid, and that is either accepted or not. Would make some sense too, as during those times of the year, there's a lot of bids made. Whether an AI manager has a truly memory for that can make a lot of difference to processing speed, memory used. Some mobile versions used to or still are programmed so that AI clubs I think only ever make bids for realistic targets to save on processing time on the limited CPUs of the devices. There's feedback lacking for accepted/rejected bids either way as there's a lot of factors.

Aside of there being possible bugs, the difference between an accepted bid and one that isn't can also be somebody setting a strict deadline vs. one not putting the manager and club under time pressure. There's people spreading this was a bias coded in to make the game harder for the human manager(s) in a save exclusively. However that would violate design rule #1 the Collyers came up back then, that the human would be incidental to the world, rather than the center piece of it – should they at all actively choose to participate rather than sit back and watch the fireworks. Pretty big deal back then (compared to rival software too), and due to the enduring popularity of scripted roller coaster rides, the games where nothing at all ever happens until the human hits a trigger, it's not grown old-hat much any since.

[El Presidente]

In the real World wouldn't the selling club go back to the original bidder and offer him for £30m instead of selling for £8m?

[Cougar2010]

In the real World wouldn't the selling club go back to the original bidder and offer him for £30m instead of selling for £8m?

In the real world the original bidder wouldn't have bid £30m.

But yes in general terms some transfer memory would improve FM.

[Marabak]

In the real world the original bidder wouldn't have bid £30m.

That's quite an irrelevant and incorrect point, especially as we don't actually know the in-game value of the player. Players in RL don't have "values" for comparison, but you if you believe FM's current value of £10m-ish for Stones (I don't have the game loaded so I had to google a screenshot), Chelsea are having to bid around £30 according to current rumours. I chose Stones for the comparison purely because the player mentioned by the OP ended up going for £8m so should be similar in value.

And to tie it to the OP, you wouldn't expect Everton to reject the £30m, Stones become unhappy at not being able to move to a bigger club, and then United to get him for £8m next week, would you?

There is a lot of work and effort which goes into FM every year, and it gets better and better every year. But it doesn't mean that it is without its faults, which need discussions like this to help refine the game. But there is a lot of rhetoric in this thread from people literally just defending the game regardless, despite this being an obvious issue that other long term players have recognised.

[Cougar2010]

That's quite an irrelevant and incorrect point, especially as we don't actually know the in-game value of the player. Players in RL don't have "values" for comparison, but you if you believe FM's current value of £10m-ish for Stones (I don't have the game loaded so I had to google a screenshot), Chelsea are having to bid around £30 according to current rumours. I chose Stones for the comparison purely because the player mentioned by the OP ended up going for £8m so should be similar in value.

Its certainly not irrelevant or incorrect.

Sure players IRL don't have values but those in FM do therefore its relevant.

The OP also stated that he offers triple or quadruple a players value therefore its fair to assume that he doesn't understand how to communicate effectively with the FM transfer system. As I stated in one of my earlier posts you should never open with a bid above a players value, thats pretty basic common sense and more importantly what FM expects you to do.

We don't know how negotiations began between Chelsea & Everton IRL but given £30m is just being talked about now several weeks later its also fair to assume it didn't start there.

And to tie it to the OP, you wouldn't expect Everton to reject the £30m, Stones become unhappy at not being able to move to a bigger club, and then United to get him for £8m next week, would you?

But again the OP has been the creator of a false situation by making the £30m bid.

If it had been me rather than the OP I would have made a £5m-£10m bid and the player would have ended up moving to one club or another for £8m a week later. This thread would never have happened and it would be a complete non-issue. The only reason this has turned into an issue is because the OP made an unrealistic £30m bid in the first place.

There is a lot of work and effort which goes into FM every year, and it gets better and better every year. But it doesn't mean that it is without its faults, which need discussions like this to help refine the game. But there is a lot of rhetoric in this thread from people literally just defending the game regardless, despite this being an obvious issue that other long term players have recognised.

No one is disputing that FM continues to improve and no one is disputing there is still plenty to improve or that discussions help but its only partly relevant to this thread.

A transfer memory of sorts would improve the way transfers work as I stated in post #23.

[samdiatmh]

but 8m might only be the upfront fee

and don't claim the news either, because they omit the 'might not happen' clauses in their writeups

so you could sign someone for:

8m upfront (of which that would've been the news figure)

10m after 36 months (news would know)

7m after 50 league games (news wouldn't know)

5m after 20 league goals (news wouldn't know)

that means the news report would say

Player has joined Club for a fee of around 8m.

Subject to clauses, the deal could rise to a potential 18m

His history (for now) would say 8m, but could easily say 30m after 3 years

But then you won't know these clauses unless you took control of the selling club, or the club that he signed for

[themadsheep2001]

but 8m might only be the upfront fee

and don't claim the news either, because they omit the 'might not happen' clauses in their writeups

so you could sign someone for:

8m upfront (of which that would've been the news figure)

10m after 36 months (news would know)

7m after 50 league games (news wouldn't know)

5m after 20 league goals (news wouldn't know)

that means the news report would say

Player has joined Club for a fee of around 8m.

Subject to clauses, the deal could rise to a potential 18m

His history (for now) would say 8m, but could easily say 30m after 3 years

But then you won't know these clauses unless you took control of the selling club, or the club that he signed for

This is a very salient point on the clauses.

[Turbodave222]

got it again. Offer 22 mil straight upfront for verdini, striker from palermo (i'm udinese still). Got rejected.

they accept offer from barcelona (says 14.5 mil+, so it's with clauses).

i enquire for him, they offer him for 47.5 mil (its his clause).

now i will wait and see in the news for how many he went in total

[themadsheep2001]

got it again. Offer 22 mil straight upfront for verdini, striker from palermo (i'm udinese still). Got rejected.

they accept offer from barcelona (says 14.5 mil+, so it's with clauses).

i enquire for him, they offer him for 47.5 mil (its his clause).

now i will wait and see in the news for how many he went in total

Always worth sending in the save, but in this case, I wonder if its because you're in the same league? I know i often don't sell to a side in the same league.

Have you gone back in for him again?

[Turbodave222]

i cant upload the save, its an online game i play, and i'm not the host

yeah i went back in for him, and unless i trigger his release clause, they wont budge

[Turbodave222]

and surely they should be asking the big fee at barcelona, they are one of the richest teams in the world, i'm just poor udinese

[BoxToBox]

but 8m might only be the upfront fee

and don't claim the news either, because they omit the 'might not happen' clauses in their writeups

so you could sign someone for:

8m upfront (of which that would've been the news figure)

10m after 36 months (news would know)

7m after 50 league games (news wouldn't know)

5m after 20 league goals (news wouldn't know)

that means the news report would say

Player has joined Club for a fee of around 8m.

Subject to clauses, the deal could rise to a potential 18m

His history (for now) would say 8m, but could easily say 30m after 3 years

But then you won't know these clauses unless you took control of the selling club, or the club that he signed for

They always know these clauses with every player I've bought or sold, and the news reports always state the full potential price.

In your example it would be...

"Player has joined Club for a fee of around 18m.

Subject to clauses, the deal could rise to a potential 30m"

[Cougar2010]

i cant upload the save, its an online game i play, and i'm not the host

yeah i went back in for him, and unless i trigger his release clause, they wont budge

and surely they should be asking the big fee at barcelona, they are one of the richest teams in the world, i'm just poor udinese

Again you'll gone in with an initial high bid which doesn't help but in this case it doesn't make a lot of difference.

The main issue you face is that Palermo are under no pressure to sell to you therefore they are comfortable demanding the release clause. You are in the same league, with probably a similar reputation. Its like Liverpool wanting to buy a player from Spurs.

Barcelona on the other hand are in a higher rep league, they are a higher rep team and Palermo have to therefore take their interest seriously.

EDIT

Your main problem seems to be identifying suitable & realistic transfer targets. You shouldn't be targeting players who play for other top Italian teams unless the player isn't playing and/or is unhappy.

[Turbodave222]

https://gyazo.com/71d4a0637068f1736abd5291bfe120ea

so the initial fee is 7 mil and can become 14 mil?

[Turbodave222]

nah, i'm in my 3rd season challenging for title and play each season CL football, and go through group phase.

Palermo is just a midtable team.

[themadsheep2001]

nah, i'm in my 3rd season challenging for title and play each season CL football, and go through group phase.

Palermo is just a midtable team.

It looks ( and I cant be certain for sure as its not your save) like they don't want to sell to you particularly as you're in the same league. Would have been interesting to test from another league.

[Cougar2010]

nah, i'm in my 3rd season challenging for title and play each season CL football, and go through group phase.

Palermo is just a midtable team.

What did your scout say when you scouted him?

[Turbodave222]

ok, might be like that.

But if you look not from a fanboy's view on the game ( not an insult, i'm one myself). Does this kind of transfermechanics sound logic to you all? i think its a flaw in the game (i wont say every situation i came across is wrong, there are certainly some situations where they might not sell, like the palermo - udinese thing). but i've seen numerous situations where the AI buys players lot cheaper then the human players.

First time i really discover a game-breaker for me. its taking the joy away from the game.

[Turbodave222]

said they would unlikely sell.

[themadsheep2001]

said they would unlikely sell.

Isn't that your answer, they were unlikely to sell to you, probably because you are in the same league.

Overall, I can't say I've ever had an issue paying vs the AI, but then I usually start looking at anyone who looks like a tough signing a good few months in advance, trying to spot the best time to sign him.

[iAlwaysWin]

the club originally never wanted to sell, ur first bid was 30 mil, most likely way more than his realistic value but since you have no common since in who you can sign and who you cant you bid 30 mil regardless, they rejected your first bid quite rightly since we have alrdy noted that club do not want to sell whatever the price, ai clubs are smart enough to either switch targets or unsettle the player, but kids like you on the other hand must have what you cant get so you bid a unrealistic price, then the player gets unsettled and wants to leave so the ai club set asking price to realistic offer and sell, yet you dont follow up with more bids of your own, only person to blame here is you and theres nothing up with what happened in your game regarding this transfer.

[Turbodave222]

yeah, but every high potential youth is registered by your scouts as "unlikely to sell", as they are top gems. if i would need to listen to the scouts buy advice, then i would have to settle for the mediocre players

[HUNT3R]

yeah, but every high potential youth is registered by your scouts as "unlikely to sell", as they are top gems. if i would need to listen to the scouts buy advice, then i would have to settle for the mediocre players

Not really. Look at the teams lower in the food chain to pick youngsters up from. Top clubs don't want to sell. Smaller clubs will need to.

[Cougar2010]

But if you look not from a fanboy's view on the game ( not an insult, i'm one myself). Does this kind of transfermechanics sound logic to you all? i think its a flaw in the game (i wont say every situation i came across is wrong, there are certainly some situations where they might not sell, like the palermo - udinese thing). but i've seen numerous situations where the AI buys players lot cheaper then the human players.

I think its maybe an area that would benefit from more communication.

There has been a lot talked about this year about improving the communication in terms of tactics but I would say SI could open the transfer module up a little so we as users got better feedback/explanations (via the staff) as to why bids or contract offers were rejected.

For users like myself we have a fairly good idea or we just shrug & move on but you are right it would benefit newer users.

yeah, but every high potential youth is registered by your scouts as "unlikely to sell", as they are top gems. if i would need to listen to the scouts buy advice, then i would have to settle for the mediocre players

If you are bidding for players that scouts are telling you are not for sale then you only have yourself to blame.

You can clearly improve in being able to identify those talents that can be realistically bought and when to approach them.

[louissiscool]

How is this still a debate? i swear this same discussion will be had countless times there is no logic in turning down 30 million and then accepting 8 million unless your goal is to be poorer then you should be. so stop defending it and trying desperately to make it seem fair or realistic and maybe SI will take a look at it.

[keithfc]

It looks like someone defends the game no matter how illogical it is.

The Op said : Then it gets accepted and when i try to offer that amount too, i get negotiated to absurd value or rejected again.

But someone just did not read this statement, or just ignored this statement. Than the reply will also become off-topic.

May be this is the English culture. Who knows. But it is extremely entertaining to read some defending statement.

[Guest]

When did explaining why something is happening become defending what is happening?

There is a known bug in the process the users makes an offer for a player when another club has already made a bid, there are also shortcomings in the process due to processing limitations that means previous bids are not stored in memory once negotiations break down & there is also an issue with the way some users approach player transfer negotiations. This thread is an example of all three of these in one.

[Turbodave222]

the club originally never wanted to sell, ur first bid was 30 mil, most likely way more than his realistic value but since you have no common since in who you can sign and who you cant you bid 30 mil regardless, they rejected your first bid quite rightly since we have alrdy noted that club do not want to sell whatever the price, ai clubs are smart enough to either switch targets or unsettle the player, but kids like you on the other hand must have what you cant get so you bid a unrealistic price, then the player gets unsettled and wants to leave so the ai club set asking price to realistic offer and sell, yet you dont follow up with more bids of your own, only person to blame here is you and theres nothing up with what happened in your game regarding this transfer.

The person to blame here is you, read the thread, and you would have read that i did follow up with bids.

But gonna leave the discussion as it is. For some people it seems to be pure logic, for me it isnt. Hope SI does something about it in FM2016 and give me back my pleasure in my long term saves.

[HUNT3R]

Follow up with bids of your own before the AI bids and you definitely won't encounter this problem, so you can get your pleasure back now already.