Do players ignore instructions because of their personality?

[DamianJMcGrath]

Watching the City-Chelsea game earlier, there was a moment where City were defending a 1-0 lead and Fernandinho and Toure were just sitting in front of the back four. In FM terms, they'd probably be in the DMC position and given instructions to play it simple, not roam from position etc.

In the game, Toure kept wandering up front, which the commentators were questioning. He struggled to track back a few times because he'd gone too far forward.

Let's assume he was given a holding instruction from his manager, and let's assume he either wasn't concentrating or ignored the instruction. Maybe because of some personality traits he's got.

My question is - in FM, do players do as they're told? Or does player personality, big game attributes, concentration etc override instructions and make the player do unexpected things?

I see a lot of threads on here saying "I've told my player to cut inside but he stays out wide" and I wonder if the answer is that the player has overridden the instruction due to something else?

In addition, if a sub is made, I'd expect the sub to maybe follow the instructions better because he'd have seen the player errors, and he'd know that's why he's being brought on.

Is individual player quirks or subtleties in FM or is it more black and white?

[HUNT3R]

The only thing (that I can think of right now) that would make a player 'ignore' instructions, would be PPMs. To a lesser extent, the amount of creative freedom they have will cause them to deviate a little too, but PPMs are a much bigger influence.

[Svenc]

I think for holding positions in midfield, the "get forward" PPM may have been locked. I even posted a thread assuming this to be a bug. On previous releases, you definitely had to watch for PPMs, otherwise your "holding player" would regularly wander forward regardless. I still had FM 2012 installed until recently and could double check. It's been the same for CBs for much longer. Else Lucio would have wandered all over the pitch. He had the PPM, but it never did anything really. But then if it did, this being the CB being affected, this would have caused chaos, in particular for the AI who likely never considered. The holding position in midfield naturally is another very sensitive area in this regard, which is likely why it's been "locked" (and I still think it is). So in that regard, as of now if you field Toure as a DM/defend duty in the game, regardless of PPM, he will keep his position.

There's behaviour influenced when your side is out of possession too though. Never underestimate the influence of mental attributes you associate to a side flawlessly working against the ball. This is from editor experiments, but basically anybody who just slacks off semi-regularly doesn't bother with all that closing down much. If you go extreme like you never would see it in the game, and edit really low attributes across all squad, you'll immediately see an effect on patterns of play but from briefly watching: the side struggles to win the ball back due to not putting in an effort at all, and may shy away from tacklings. Which also rubs off on distances covered statistically and possession... and can turn an otherwise really good side into one really struggling and underperforming. The game shouldn't be just about instructions, as it's management of teams and players. If you want a super effective pressing game, you need the likes of Kuyt and shy away from too many Özils, and that's how it should be.

As for players going wide, there's PPMs, but players can also be forced to go wide by opposition instructions (players forced onto the foot that sees them going wide), or who have a tendency to go wide when their footedness doesn't sit (i.e. a player on the left flank being encouraged to cut inside but has a weak right foot). And utilizing Robben as a winger who's encouraged to run the flank and goes wide with the ball to cross, that's something that shouldn't be followed 100% as his tendency to cut inside has seen him being called a one-trick pony all throughout his career. Apart of that "attributes" are dynamic too. That you can get players pumped via a talk depending on their personality if that's your thing or do the opposite and calm down, it's not something huge and doesn't last long, but it's not for show either, the same as different personalities react differently to match events (bookings, fouls, harsh calls, goals for and against) which can rub off on performance slightly. Same as the match preparation gives dynamic boosts during dynamic match situations, i.e. during set pieces if you put the focus on set pieces. It's horrible that the official documentation doesn't even hint at some of this, starting with never acknowledging that players are made of hidden traits too.

[DamianJMcGrath]

The reason I asked is that if I set certain player instructions, and it doesn't look like they are being followed, is that always down to me picking the wrong things, or could the player just be having a bad day and doing his own thing? If that is possible, then a sub might follow the same instructions better.

Basically, the question is "if I see a player doing something, is that because I've told him to do it or he's decided to do it?". The answer would ultimately lead to either a tactical change or replacing the player.

[MBarbaric]

Basically, the question is "if I see a player doing something, is that because I've told him to do it or he's decided to do it?". The answer would ultimately lead to either a tactical change or replacing the player.

only devs can answer this really. whenever i face the same situation i go and play as i would in real, thus concluding the player isn't following my instructions and he is getting off. as fm is a simulation i believe si has coded that in just as ref mistakes and other random stuff.

once above is established the tricky part is coming and that is understanding why is the player not following instructions. is he just not listening due to his character, my reputation, his ppms, team overall having a bad day, him being overconfident... clues are there but as with most things in this game, you are never ment to be sure why things happen exactly as they do. that's football.

[HUNT3R]

The reason I asked is that if I set certain player instructions, and it doesn't look like they are being followed, is that always down to me picking the wrong things, or could the player just be having a bad day and doing his own thing? If that is possible, then a sub might follow the same instructions better.

Basically, the question is "if I see a player doing something, is that because I've told him to do it or he's decided to do it?". The answer would ultimately lead to either a tactical change or replacing the player.

If a player isn't doing what you told him to (and you ruled out that it's a PPM affecting it) then it's your instructions. Players follow your instructions as much as possible.

If you can be more specific about issues, the tactics forum will be able to help you.

[samdiatmh]

but it also depends on your style though

if it's fluid, then I like to think that players are more willing to disobey their set instructions (cause of the team overruling the player)

and then it's possible that 'be more expressive' TI also creates the same result

and then likewise if on 'overload' with 'take more risks' as it looks to get the ball forward quickly, probably negating the 'shorter passing' team instruction

NOTE: I don't actually know if it does, but that's what I like to believe

[HUNT3R]

Shorter passing isn't the same as short passing though. It's just shorter than the default.

[samuelawachie]

In my experience, it has to do with PPMs, and whether it's a FLUID or RIGID setup.

[Boiiing]

If a player isn't doing what you told him to (and you ruled out that it's a PPM affecting it) then it's your instructions. Players follow your instructions as much as possible.

But... didn't you say yourself that players' behaviour

[...] depends on your instructions, how selfish players are and how good their vision is. Edit: Composure and Decisions too.

?

[DamianJMcGrath]

And presumably as the match wears on, tiredness plays a part, and lowers the players concentration and ability to follow instructions?

[HUNT3R]

But... didn't you say yourself that players' behaviour

?

You're quoting two different threads and they're two different situations.

PPMs (and to a much lesser degree, creative freedom) will affect whether players don't do as instructed. The OP here was asking in general terms and he was given the answer.

The thread you quoted my second quote from was specifically about the decision-making in front of goal. You don't have much to influence their decisions there, apart from Mentality and Tempo. The rest will depend on player attributes.

Specific situations could be attribute related, yes. Overall, if they're not doing what you instructed (assuming you actually used the correct instructions) then it's down to PPMs.

Edit: If you have specifics, ask away.