Tomas Tuchel - Borussia Dortmund; Attempt 1

[Jean0987654321]

Once again, as I told you guys. I did a complete 180 with my interpretation.

Control

For the same reasons as you did, OP. Counter would've given us a low block and backward passes. Something I cannot see Dortmund doing.

Very Fluid

Everybody has to play a role in attacking and defending. Especially the latter...so...yeah.

Here we have an unorthodox 4-2-3-1. It defends like a 4-1-4-1 but attacks like a 4-2-3-1

TIs

I think most of these TIs are obvious

Work Ball Into Box

We don't want to waste any opportunites when we get the ball back so this TI is there for that reason.

Play Narrower

Coupled with Pass It Shorter helps out in possession retention and also we can press like a unit when we lose the ball.

PIs:

The 3rd CB. He will expected to sweep up through balls that comes through his area and also expected to start counterattacks

Two CWBs that are expected to provide the width for our side.

Recommended PPMs: Hugs Line, Gets Foward Whenever Possible, Runs Down Left/Right Flank

This guy is expected to cover for the DLP when he supports the attack.

The Hummels role. He will make riskier passes and will aggressively charge up and pressure his man.

The Bender role. I think this emulates his movement because he usually the "vacuum cleaner" for his team.

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos

I think this role along with PPMs fits Gundogan's role like a glove. He makes a lot of riskier passes especially from deep.

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos, Tries Long Range Passes, Tries Riskier Passes

Okay this may be more debatable. You may say that this role is too deep for a Marco Reus but I think this role fits him like a glove when coupled with PPMs

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos, Moves Into Channels, Places Shots

The Kagawa role. I had some doubts about this role because Kagawa was always a false 10 but ever since Tuchel came he has been more disciplined attackingly and defensively.

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos, Places Shots

I think role fits Mekitarian like a glove. He isn't really an Interior because he does not Sit Narrower instead he stays wide and then cuts inside and an AP would enable him to do this but not WP.

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos

Finally, the Auba role. While you may say that a DF is a deeper role than Auba plays IRL, I think some PPMs will be able to help.

Recommended PPMs: Plays One-Twos, Gets Into Opposition Area (or Penalty Box Player), Places Shots

More info on the game I posted above

I'm a bit more deeper in my save but I think once I get this system well oiled, I will be able to successfully play Tuchelball

[jpcote09]

I've actually lost the tactic I had made as my own interpretation of Tuchel's Dortmund, however I am currently working on a bigger/deeper and more refined analysis of it, and I will probably be releasing that as a thread of its own when it's over, because it's going to contain a whole lot of stuff (including different plans Tuchel has used so far and in-match changes, plus a more general discussion about applying the counterpress in FM). That should also be my last contribution for this 2015 edition of FM, and hopefully it is going to remain valuable for future versions. Stay tuned...

Jean0987654321, I had a similar approach to yours at first, by the way. However, I could never get the 'defending' part close enough to the real thing by having an asymmetric formation, and the Very Fluid team shape prevented me from tweaking player instructions to fit Tuchel's possession-oriented style. Actually, the biggest challenge in all of this (IMO) is to emulate possession passing AND high-pressing within the same system. I'll try to get there in my thread and/or at least illustrate how and why it can not really be faithfully recreated.

[Der General]

Jean0987654321, could you post some in-match screenshots? I'm not a fan of asymmetrical formations, I believe that "normal", symmetrical ones give just enough space to create almost any system that ME allows, but I'm curious to see what this looks like.

[Jean0987654321]

I've actually lost the tactic I had made as my own interpretation of Tuchel's Dortmund, however I am currently working on a bigger/deeper and more refined analysis of it, and I will probably be releasing that as a thread of its own when it's over, because it's going to contain a whole lot of stuff (including different plans Tuchel has used so far and in-match changes, plus a more general discussion about applying the counterpress in FM). That should also be my last contribution for this 2015 edition of FM, and hopefully it is going to remain valuable for future versions. Stay tuned... Jean0987654321, I had a similar approach to yours at first, by the way. However, I could never get the 'defending' part close enough to the real thing by having an asymmetric formation, and the Very Fluid team shape prevented me from tweaking player instructions to fit Tuchel's possession-oriented style. Actually, the biggest challenge in all of this (IMO) is to emulate possession passing AND high-pressing within the same system. I'll try to get there in my thread and/or at least illustrate how and why it can not really be faithfully recreated.

First and foremost. You will NEVER fully be able to emulate ANY real life tactics in this game. They are way too many people trying to emulate Pep's barca. Thats impossible to do. You can't play like that team and you can't make a tactic like that team. The only thing we can do is to get something closest to the real life tactic. I think I got that locked in. If you have your own unique interpretation, I'll wait for yours but I doubt neither of us have approached this the wrong way. Even OP made a good effort

[Jean0987654321]

Jean0987654321, could you post some in-match screenshots? I'm not a fan of asymmetrical formations, I believe that "normal", symmetrical ones give just enough space to create almost any system that ME allows, but I'm curious to see what this looks like.

"Normal" Shape

Attacking Shape

[jpcote09]

First and foremost. You will NEVER fully be able to emulate ANY real life tactics in this game. They are way too many people trying to emulate Pep's barca. Thats impossible to do. You can't play like that team and you can't make a tactic like that team. The only thing we can do is to get something closest to the real life tactic. I think I got that locked in. If you have your own unique interpretation, I'll wait for yours but I doubt neither of us have approached this the wrong way. Even OP made a good effort

I totally agree, I just want to try and get as close as possible. As you did. And as OP did. I didn't mean your approach was bad, far from it, I actually think it makes a lot of sense. However since Dortmund are my favorite team and I love how they play this year, I want to take things a bit further from the usual 'tactical interpretation' stuff

[Jean0987654321]

Not sure exactly how useful this will be in terms of translating into FM, but I thought this was a nice analysis of Tuchel's BVB so far, with lots of links to other analyses: http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/

This has been posted already (look above!)

[Taleron]

This has been posted already (look above!)

Whoops, missed it!

[Help333]

I've actually lost the tactic I had made as my own interpretation of Tuchel's Dortmund, however I am currently working on a bigger/deeper and more refined analysis of it, and I will probably be releasing that as a thread of its own when it's over, because it's going to contain a whole lot of stuff (including different plans Tuchel has used so far and in-match changes, plus a more general discussion about applying the counterpress in FM). That should also be my last contribution for this 2015 edition of FM, and hopefully it is going to remain valuable for future versions. Stay tuned...

Jean0987654321, I had a similar approach to yours at first, by the way. However, I could never get the 'defending' part close enough to the real thing by having an asymmetric formation, and the Very Fluid team shape prevented me from tweaking player instructions to fit Tuchel's possession-oriented style. Actually, the biggest challenge in all of this (IMO) is to emulate possession passing AND high-pressing within the same system. I'll try to get there in my thread and/or at least illustrate how and why it can not really be faithfully recreated.

In my opinion the way to get high pressing + possession is by playing Attacking/Very fluid (which will give you the high press) + shorter passing and lower tempo (which will give you the possession), play narrower also helps depending on the formation. From there it is just a matter of tweaking the roles and duties which will depend on starting formation, though a striker on attack duty will be necessary to get the depth you'll need to create space and keep possession.

The problem with the plans above is there are too many instructions (in my opinion). Just putting things on attacking will do almost all the work for you. Why go push higher up and close down more on Control when you can just go attacking and be done with it.

I think what many people don't realize is that the settings are balanced to begin with so there is no need to reinvent the wheel, tweaks should be sufficient.

The big issue above though is the higher tempo. Attacking + pass shorter + lower tempo will still play fast without giving the ball away as much.

[jpcote09]

In my opinion the way to get high pressing + possession is by playing Attacking/Very fluid (which will give you the high press) + shorter passing and lower tempo (which will give you the possession), play narrower also helps depending on the formation. From there it is just a matter of tweaking the roles and duties which will depend on starting formation, though a striker on attack duty will be necessary to get the depth you'll need to create space and keep possession.

The problem with the plans above is there are too many instructions (in my opinion). Just putting things on attacking will do almost all the work for you. Why go push higher up and close down more on Control when you can just go attacking and be done with it.

I think what many people don't realize is that the settings are balanced to begin with so there is no need to reinvent the wheel, tweaks should be sufficient.

The big issue above though is the higher tempo. Attacking + pass shorter + lower tempo will still play fast without giving the ball away as much.

I have finally given up on writing my own thread about this, but actually the biggest challenge was to emulate the sort of casual lateral passing between the center backs and the tendency to pass towards the inside of the pitch (from almost everybody). With attacking mentalities, usually the tempo is too high and/or the width is too wide, even with shouts to try and counteract that. Therefore, players will press quickly and aggressively, but even with much lower tempo and shorter passing/retain possession (heck, even take a breather and play narrower on top of it) they will look for the wide players too often or play forward too quickly (as compared to real-life stats). With more defensive mentalities, the problem is that it's extremely difficult to get the pressing right, and on top of that the midfield will often be bypassed in favor of longer counter-attacking passes (even with possession shouts engaged).