Central defenders attributes

[Scaramanga]

I was just wondering about the needed attributes for this position.

In real life there is a increasing emphasis on CDs to have good technical skills so that they can build play from the back.

In FM i also tend to use the TI 'play out of defence'. (I dont use the BPD role often btw)

Thats why i always look for CD who can play a bit (passing, technique, vision)

Most of the regens however usually have great defensive skills and poor technical skills.

So how important are these attributes in the game/for my style of play?

[Cougar2010]

On the player attributes screen (and some others) you can highlight the key skills needed for each role.

[samdiatmh]

I practically never bother with good passing from the back

all he's got to do is hit the FBs or DM, and then we're good to go

just wish the 'limited defender' would actually do that, rather than hoofing it upfield

[HUNT3R]

just wish the 'limited defender' would actually do that, rather than hoofing it upfield

That's the point of a limited defender though? The description says that. He does his defensive duty and then gets rid to relieve pressure.

[Scaramanga]

On the player attributes screen (and some others) you can highlight the key skills needed for each role.

I know.

But as you said, those are the KEY attributes for a role.

It doesnt mean all the others are irrelevant imo.

It feels a bit outdated (especially in real life) for top clubs to have two players at the back who just about can pass a ball to someone 5 yards ahead without losing it, but are monsters defensively.

[Xavessi]

I practically never bother with good passing from the back

all he's got to do is hit the FBs or DM, and then we're good to go

Not for me.

All my best teams have always had skillful ball playing CBs. I prefer not to use DMs and so I need at least one of my CBs to be very good on the ball.

[HUNT3R]

So how important are these attributes in the game/for my style of play?

I don't think I understand the question.

You want DCs to pass out of defence. It would just make sense that they have a decent passing ability then?

Probably worth looking at Anchor Man type DMs with jumping reach and retrain them.

[Ackter]

Gonna need decent vision as well so he can deal better with being under pressure.

[Scaramanga]

I also think it for the style of play i want to be playing my CDs need good passing, vision etc.

Just wondered if it really mattered in the ME.

[MBarbaric]

Gonna need decent vision as well so he can deal better with being under pressure.

i was thinking vision serves to spot the passing options and to deal being under pressure you'd need it but also decent composure, ball controll, passing and such??

[HUNT3R]

I also think it for the style of play i want to be playing my CDs need good passing, vision etc.

Just wondered if it really mattered in the ME.

If you require them to be able to pass and to see passing options, then of course it matters.

[Scaramanga]

Ill stick to it then.

It is sometimes tempting to buy one of those great defensive players, im just always worried theyre to poor offensively

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I don't pay that much heed to it, I mean really unless you want them sallying forth with hollywood through balls then a bare 10 for passing is more than enough to get it around from side-to-side and back-to-front for the purpose. I can't think of many out and out ball players, Rio Ferdinand comes to mind, but he wouldn't be first choice in midfield put it that way. So yeah, I focus on defence first and passing comes as a secondary.

[HUNT3R]

My one centreback has an average completion percentage of 70%, even with 5 for passing. He's rarely under pressure though, so most of his passes are easy and obvious.

[Ackter]

I like at least one of my CBs to be able to pass, but it's not essential for how I play. My back line is a wall. It's up to the rest of the team to do something when the ball bounces off them.

[mrdanbartlett]

Slightly off topic but be wary of buying CB's without checking their height........I've looked at some CB's with superb stats, signed them and then realized they are 5ft 7".....! Not ideal for a CB, but easy mistake to make.

[benallen002]

The way I do it: think of the best player in the world at playing how you want your CB to play. Find that player in FM and study his Attribute Analysis graph and the shape that it makes. Then, when you are scouting, look for players with that shape. You obviously won't get the proportions the same as the world class player, but the style of play should be similar.

May not work for everyone, but has served me well for a long time now.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Composure is what you want if the idea is to build from the back. High passing ability and technique is not vital as long as it's not ridiculously low. The player must be able to see the options (vision), pick the pass (decisions) and not panic (composure).

[Ackter]

Concentration > Composure for defenders tbh

[Äktsjon Männ]

Concentration > Composure for defenders tbh

I don't think it is where passing under pressure is concerned. Concentration I'm pretty sure is a defensive attribute.

[Ackter]

You can't pass the ball if you weren't concentrating enough to intercept it in the first place

[Scaramanga]

Of course they dont have to be the next Beckenbauer but if a player has single digits in CON, COM, DEC, PAS or VIS and especially in more then one i usually wont buy unless of course he's very young.

Marking 14 is good enough for me if the above requirements are met.

Ive also read that decisions is a very important attribute in CDs, but isnt this way more important for players further up the field?

They usually have less time and space to make up there mind.

[HUNT3R]

Decisions is an attribute that's very important everywhere. What good is a centreback who makes poor decisions?

[Scaramanga]

Cant argue with that

[Äktsjon Männ]

You can't pass the ball if you weren't concentrating enough to intercept it in the first place

Of course. Concentration is a key defensive attribute, much more so than for example marking or tackling, at least in my view. But we were discussing important attributes for building from the back, no?

[chocolatecoatedballs]

I like at least one of my CBs to be able to pass, but it's not essential for how I play. My back line is a wall. It's up to the rest of the team to do something when the ball bounces off them.

Pretty much this for me as well, but it's a secondary skill, but it does make a difference I think.

I have a philosophy that attribute values from 1-9 are below average, 10-13 are average, 14-16 above average and 17-20 are exceptional.

So all important skills I would like to have as above average, secondary as average. So I like every player in my team to at least be average at passing, so I like my CD to at least have 10 in this attribute.

At lower levels though, all I want is for the important stats to be average

[Ackter]

And the defensive attributes are a massive part of that. Their offensive/building attributes are completely useless without the defensive attributes.

[HUNT3R]

FWIW, I agree with Concentration being important for defending and Composure being an 'on the ball' attribute. Both important for different reasons.

Btw, I really like that way of describing it, Ackter. The backline being a wall.

[Äktsjon Männ]

And the defensive attributes are a massive part of that. Their offensive/building attributes are completely useless without the defensive attributes.

I don't get why you think I'm arguing otherwise? The question as I understand from the OP was which additional attributes were required for a short passing build up style presuming that the players already were good enough defensively. Which includes concentration.

[Ackter]

I don't think you're arguing otherwise, I'm just explaining why I feel Concentration is more important than Composure whether defending or not.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I don't think you're arguing otherwise, I'm just explaining why I feel Concentration is more important than Composure whether defending or not.

Okay. Still, a player with great concentration but poor composure will whack it long almost every time if there is an opposing player in the same postcode. Composure/vision is what separates a ball playing defender from a non ball playing one. Concentration is a necessity for any type of defensive player.

[Scaramanga]

Okay. Still, a player with great concentration but poor composure will whack it long almost every time if there is an opposing player in the same postcode. Composure/vision is what separates a ball playing defender from a non ball playing one. Concentration is a necessity for any type of defensive player.

I agree with this.

I have another question btw.

So to get the CDs with good technical skills i often convert a midfielder.

How damaging is it if this player has the PPM get forward whenever possible?

Is this linked with decisions (13 for the player in question)?

[MBarbaric]

it is indeed linked with decision attribute (as everything else). however, i am not sure how is the ME dealing with CD going up the pitch as some defenders in real do. i don't think i've ever seen a defender doing it, certainly not consistently. then again, i didn't have cd's with such PPM. i might be wrong but i don't think ME represents this particular habit for defender, hopefully someone has more experience with this. would be interesting to hear about it.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

I have a CD who occasionally takes the ball up field and he doesn't have the gets forward PPM. Usually if he intercepts a long pass, he will dribble to the halfway line and pass it off to a winger or CM.

[nick1408]

Slightly off topic but be wary of buying CB's without checking their height........I've looked at some CB's with superb stats, signed them and then realized they are 5ft 7".....! Not ideal for a CB, but easy mistake to make.

Shouldn't matter as height is cosmetic. I a 190cm player has a Jumping Reach of 16 and a 160com player has the same they still peak at the same height when jumping.

[Ackter]

It's not cosmetic.

[HUNT3R]

Shouldn't matter as height is cosmetic. I a 190cm player has a Jumping Reach of 16 and a 160com player has the same they still peak at the same height when jumping.

A 160cm player is too short to have a Jumping Reach of 16.

[nick1408]

A 160cm player is too short to have a Jumping Reach of 16.

Not if the researchers don't follow the guidelines. I'm not sure if the guidelines are coded in but it is still possible for an initial database player or an edited player of 160cm to have jumping 16. From memory, Tim Cahill fell outside guidelines and was given a 14 for jumping but this was changed to 16 (again, from memory). His final jumping stat was outside guidelines but was relevant as his jumping reach ability.

[nick1408]

It's not cosmetic.

Thanks for explaining why

[Cougar2010]

Thanks for explaining why

Because it was changed a few years ago, I can't remember exactly when, maybe for the FM13 release?

You are partially right it still forms part of the calculation for the jumping attribute but in terms of the ME height is now built into the ME calculations.

[nick1408]

Because it was changed a few years ago, I can't remember exactly when, maybe for the FM13 release?

You are partially right it still forms part of the calculation for the jumping attribute but in terms of the ME height is now built into the ME calculations.

I'll take what you are saying as fact. My memory was that researchers and assistants (which I was at the time) were given a set of guidelines to follow with regards to the jumping reach stat, not that the match engine was changed

[Matty20]

Micah Richards and Luiz have been known to do (admittedlty the latter can also play in midfield).