Are player prices too inflated, on FM?

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

So I've tried signing De Gea and UTD wont settle for anything less than £89m - in real life he's off for £30m (more or less a record fee for a keeper)

Tried signing Sterling - Liverpool want £92m

Went for De Bruyne..... £81m

Why are prices on FM far too inflated compared to what these players actually go for in real life?!

[Cougar2010]

Because FM isn't real life and the situations are different.

Lets just be clear here prices are not inflated on FM. Those values you posted are responses to you making an enquiry or offer, they are not prices, they only become prices when you agree to pay that amount.

The intent of those responses are for you to go away and look for other targets, not buy the players.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

Because FM isn't real life and the situations are different.

Lets just be clear here prices are not inflated on FM. Those values you posted are responses to you making an enquiry or offer, they are not prices, they only become prices when you agree to pay that amount.

The intent of those responses are for you to go away and look for other targets, not buy the players.

That's fair enough but 9/10 other targets are always 10x what the player value is listed at too...it seems I can't sign anyone decent unless I put my club in debt

[Cougar2010]

That's fair enough but 9/10 other targets are always 10x what the player value is listed at too...it seems I can't sign anyone decent unless I put my club in debt

But the problem isn't FM its you.

You either need to:

A) Learn to negotiate

or

B) Identify realistic targets

The first rule you need to learn is that you can't sign anyone you want, I have around 2,000 players on my shortlist. Of those my AM tells me about 1,500 are realistic targets but my club can't afford at least half of them due to either transfer fee or wages. In essence of the 2,000 players on my shortlist only around a third at most are truly possible targets.

[Valencia7]

If a club want's 40M+ for 16-17 year old prospect and refuse to negotiate it doesn't have anything to do with negotiating skills and finding realistic targets...

[Cougar2010]

If a club want's 40M+ for 16-17 year old prospect and refuse to negotiate it doesn't have anything to do with negotiating skills and finding realistic targets...

It has everything to do with finding realistic targets.

If they are quoting £40m they aren't going to sell, the scouts will be telling you they don't want to sell therefore they aren't realistic targets.

It really is that simple!

[sjh567]

A high value is telling you how valuable to the club that player is. Yes valuation is high but that is to dissuade you from bidding. If you put a real bid in then the value might be less than what the club said when you enquired. Because a bid is real and an enquiry is a question.

[HUNT3R]

If a club want's 40M+ for 16-17 year old prospect and refuse to negotiate it doesn't have anything to do with negotiating skills and finding realistic targets...

It means find another target, if you can't unsettle him.

[coady]

FM transfers are brilliant at that now though. If they quote 80m, you can easily get it down to 40-50m by using instalments, add-ons etc. I personally think its the area FM has made the most ground in the last couple of years. I think its just because some players are used to the older games of bidding upfront fee and nothing else. If you use the least likely instalments to your advantage, you can get realistic deals in most cases. The club are only opening negotiation with that to try and get you to pay silly or put you off, which seems to have worked there. I think it's spot on.

[Cougar2010]

While not a great example I bought a player last night which shows some of what can be done.

The player was a 22yo newgen from WBA who are in the Premiship I think, the newgen had been on loan for the last two seasons at lower league clubs. He wasn't transfer or loan listed, he was happy at the club and had just over two years left on his contract. He had a value of £250k which I thought was quite low but his wages were also low.

I had been scouting him and the scout report was around 80% complete. The scout report said the transfer fee would be between £87k & £150k, significantly lower than his value.

I made an enquiry just to see what they would say, I didn't actually think they would sell but they came back with £350k up front + add ons which totalled approx £500k so twice his value. I listened to the scout report and bid £60k + £30k over 12 months so £90k total just above the £87k minimum the scout thought would be accepted. WBA bit my hand off and accepted straight away which implies I didn't negotiate that well and that they would have accepted less. One of the points here is that £90k is less than a fifth of what they quoted me when I enquired and less than half of the players value.

[aderow]

As Cougar said, prices really aren't overly inflated. I think a lot of players who think that can't get over the fact that there simply are players that you can't sign. Unless you are willing to pay a ridiculous sum of course.

If a club want's 40M+ for 16-17 year old prospect and refuse to negotiate it doesn't have anything to do with negotiating skills and finding realistic targets...

Now about this. I remember back in the day, there be times a 16-17 yr old that you were trying to sign would flat out refuse the move on the grounds that they felt they it was too early in their career to move to a new club. I actually liked this.

In fact I would like if clubs were to give more of an explanation as to why their valuation of your transfer target is what it is.

I know we can give explanations to other teams as to why we accept or reject a bid, but it would be cool if clubs gave reasons as to why they value a player as highly as they do.

[Guest]

Another key point that the OP has forgotten is that they are a season behind & all the personal issues that saw the Sterling & De Gea moves will not have happened in their save.

[Sven.]

If a club want's 40M+ for 16-17 year old prospect and refuse to negotiate it doesn't have anything to do with negotiating skills and finding realistic targets...

Show interest, unsettle them, place multiple offers, wait for their contract to run out soon (1, 2 years) and you will pay a realistic or even cheap price, so yes negotiating skills. You can buy almost every player with the right skills and patient.

Another key point that the OP has forgotten is that they are a season behind & all the personal issues that saw the Sterling & De Gea moves will not have happened in their save.

And De Gea is now in his last contract year so Man Utd is forced to sell him now if they still want to receive some money. In the game De Gea has 2 years to go, so Man Utd stand stronger in the game.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

And De Gea is now in his last contract year so Man Utd is forced to sell him now if they still want to receive some money. In the game De Gea has 2 years to go, so Man Utd stand stronger in the game.

Yep understand that, however it is in season 2 now, i'm trying to sign him (he is unhappy they won't sell him to me) - when was the last time you saw a goalkeeper move for anything over £30m - i get that strikers are more valuable and demand a higher fee but does the game work like that? (ie, will keepers cost less than a forward etc or is it simple done on their PA/CA?!)

[MECAP]

Sterling WAS unsettled, so was De Bruyne, so is de Gea!

[Guest]

Yep understand that, however it is in season 2 now, i'm trying to sign him (he is unhappy they won't sell him to me) - when was the last time you saw a goalkeeper move for anything over £30m - i get that strikers are more valuable and demand a higher fee but does the game work like that? (ie, will keepers cost less than a forward etc or is it simple done on their PA/CA?!)

How long is left on his contract? What sort of statements have been coming out of the club regarding the player's unhappiness?

Edit: I believe that there is a position weighting to player valuations, never fully tested that though.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

How long is left on his contract? What sort of statements have been coming out of the club regarding the player's unhappiness?

Edit: I believe that there is a position weighting to player valuations, never fully tested that though.

LVG has said he's not worried about the situation, then he's said he would listen to offers and DDG has twice publicly said he's unhappy at not being allowed to join me.

Do i keep unsettling him until Utd accept my offer - or am i wasting my time?

FWIT i would happily pay £50m for him - but not £70m+ as i also need a centre half

[Cougar2010]

LVG has said he's not worried about the situation, then he's said he would listen to offers and DDG has twice publicly said he's unhappy at not being allowed to join me.

Do i keep unsettling him until Utd accept my offer - or am i wasting my time?

FWIT i would happily pay £50m for him - but not £70m+ as i also need a centre half

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is which club are you?

Man Utd have a high rep which will play a part as well as if you are managing a league rival.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

My bad

I'm Real Madrid....so i guess its like a real life

[Cougar2010]

My bad

I'm Real Madrid....so i guess its like a real life

I think you stand a fairly decent chance then.

Reps will be similar, league reps similar so with some work it should be achievable.

[Sven.]

I would say keep trying, but you may have to wait until the next transferperiod before you finally get him.

[mchbitil]

It's clear that the asking price is way too inflated in FM, *especially* for teenagers (30M for 16 year old? sure).

But what's interesting, the actual prices paid by AI clubs are on the opposite, lower than in reality. If you holiday many years, you'll never see AI clubs pay $150M+ for any player.

[mchbitil]

My bad

I'm Real Madrid....so i guess its like a real life

yeah in my game for MU Januzaj got unsettled by Real Madrid, and he told me "he wants to leave to a better league" (ffs!! since when la liga is better?)

[HUNT3R]

It's clear that the asking price is way too inflated in FM, *especially* for teenagers (30M for 16 year old? sure).

It's not anything. They don't want to sell.

AI managers recognise this and leave it alone. Human managers keep hitting their head against the same wall.

[mchbitil]

See Regan Poole transfer to Man United for 100k today. This would be a realistic price for a high-potential 17-year old. 100k, no more.

I could see paying 1-3M.

But in FM high-potential are usually 30-40M, which is nonsense.

[Cougar2010]

Have you even read the thread?

That £30m-£40m that you are mentioning IS NOT A PRICE.

It only becomes a price if you choose to do something stupid.

[oi_oi_ginger_roy]

Have you even read the thread?

That £30m-£40m that you are mentioning IS NOT A PRICE.

It only becomes a price if you choose to do something stupid.

So what benefit does listing the "player value" offer if its just to be ignored? - surely it would be better to mask it until you have scouted the player or made an enquiry.

[HUNT3R]

See Regan Poole transfer to Man United for 100k today. This would be a realistic price for a high-potential 17-year old. 100k, no more.

I could see paying 1-3M.

But in FM high-potential are usually 30-40M, which is nonsense.

That's one, isolated example. I'll counter with this:

On a more serious note, those clubs don't want to sell. Put some effort in and you might get that same player. Or find another target for a tenth of the cost.

[HUNT3R]

So what benefit does listing the "player value" offer if its just to be ignored? - surely it would be better to mask it until you have scouted the player or made an enquiry.

Value is based on a few things like rep, age and contract etc. The value the club places on a player is far more important.

[mchbitil]

Here is another example from real life.

Anthony Martial, extremely high-potential teenager (given what is said about him, should have 190 PA or so) that is already "Key Player" in Monaco (one of the best by current ability in their starting 11). Monaco chairman said in interviews that Martial is "definitely not for sale". Martial signed a new contract just 2 months ago.

What happened next? They say they "got an offer they couldn't refuse". And this offer is 50 million euro (30m upfront + 20m over 4 years), plus 30m euro conditional. IRL this is "offer you can't refuse" for a teenager.

In FM, if Monaco had a 19-year old Key Player with extremely high potential who just signed a new contract, they would start negotiations from 150-200m and would not agree for 50m. This is the problem.

[mchbitil]

That's one, isolated example. I'll counter with this:

On a more serious note, those clubs don't want to sell. Put some effort in and you might get that same player. Or find another target for a tenth of the cost.

Your counter is based on the fact that PA for Regan Poole is low in FM .

Did you ever get 5-star potential (in MU terms) 16/17-year olds in FM cheaply? The cheapest I got in FM15 was something like 8-9M, and after going through several dozens of 5-star PA teenagers. This is definitely not normal.

[mchbitil]

So what benefit does listing the "player value" offer if its just to be ignored? - surely it would be better to mask it until you have scouted the player or made an enquiry.

"player value" doesn't need any scouting, I can look up "player value" on transfermarkt.com any time. And yes it's far from money paid. (Martial has 8M euro market value on transfermarkt http://www.transfermarkt.com/anthony-martial/profil/spieler/182877 )

[mchbitil]

It's not anything. They don't want to sell.

AI managers recognise this and leave it alone. Human managers keep hitting their head against the same wall.

Of course, the result is that AI clubs in FM don't ever buy really good potential teenagers. (or at least I never seen them do it)

[HUNT3R]

Your counter is based on the fact that PA for Regan Poole is low in FM .

Did you ever get 5-star potential (in MU terms) 16/17-year olds in FM cheaply? The cheapest I got in FM15 was something like 8-9M, and after going through several dozens of 5-star PA teenagers. This is definitely not normal.

What's your point? You can buy a 5 star potential youngster for anything between 500k and 10m if you want. Man Utd spent a lot more than that IRL.

[Guest]

Monaco have a buy low/sell high business model so even if what you've attributed to the chairman is true it was likely only bluster to ward people off making a low offer & the new contract will have also served to extend the players resale window.

Just so you're aware Martial can be bought for €15m at the start of a save in FM15, taking into account his age & starting CA his PPA will be 190+.

Now please stop with these silly comparisons to real life, so far all you have highlighted is that players might be available for a lot less than they are in real life.

[mchbitil]

What's your point? You can buy a 5 star potential youngster for anything between 500k and 10m if you want. Man Utd spent a lot more than that IRL.

My point is that it is not true. You can't buy 5 star potential youngster (16-18) in FM15 for 500k. Cheapest is 8M or so.

MU spent 100k on Poole (not clear if he is 5 star though).

MU spent "a lot more" on Martial who is not a "youngster", he is Key Player for one of the top teams in one of the top leagues. I'm not arguing that such players should be cheap.

Martial shouldn't be compared with some 16-year old that plays under-18 games in some Dutch club or English Championship club but still costs 10M (in FM15).

[Guest]

My point is that it is not true. You can't buy 5 star potential youngster (16-18) in FM15 for 500k. Cheapest is 8M or so.

That quite simply is not true, a player I signed for €750,000 from a lower league side while managing Athletic Club went on to score 36 league goals in his first full season, 49 in total & has kept to a better than a goal per game ratio even after I left the club.

I have also recently bought a 4/5 star PA 18 year old DM from Pescara for my AC Milan side, he cost me €2.4m & PSG sold me a 4 star PA 21 year old DC for €4.5m although it turns out my scouts might have over-estimated his ability & potential.

[HUNT3R]

My point is that it is not true. You can't buy 5 star potential youngster (16-18) in FM15 for 500k. Cheapest is 8M or so.

MU spent 100k on Poole (not clear if he is 5 star though).

MU spent "a lot more" on Martial who is not a "youngster", he is Key Player for one of the top teams in one of the top leagues. I'm not arguing that such players should be cheap.

Martial shouldn't be compared with some 16-year old that plays under-18 games in some Dutch club or English Championship club but still costs 10M (in FM15).

You've still not given any proper examples. Both players can be bought on FM for cheaper.

You can buy wonderkids for much cheaper.

You can buy Key Players for much less than United paid.

So, again, what is your point?

I buy valuable players for less than 20m. I buy wonderkids for (on average) 3m-4m. Both of these cases shoot holes into your isolated examples.

I just bought 2 brilliant 5 star PA regens for 3.5m and 2.6m. I bought 1 the previous season for 6m. If you look, you'll find them.

[Guest]

Forgot to mention the two time Serie A midfielder of the year, he cost me €6m from Schalke04 & then there's my 5 star Brazilian wing-back who is about to move to Monaco in a €50m deal, he cost me €8.75m.

[HUNT3R]

I bought one of the best player I've ever had, Ronaldo/Messi quality for 8.25m from a mid table Cagliari (where he was a 'Key' player and 18yo) and he's a beast right now.

[Guest]

Kind of on the flip side Schalke also took €65m from me for a player who had just won the Ballon D'or (€65m is probably still on the cheap side), he had a good first season but has not lived up to that during his second season & might turn out to be a costly flop.

[awulfclark]

You're not going to buy high potential youngsters from top teams for cheap, in general. You need to look at lower league teams, teams who aren't in a financial position to be turning down, say, three million for a good prospect. It just means you've got to be doing some digging. Also, top teams are going to know who their high-potential youngsters are much more so than lower-league teams. And, as others have said, once you find those players, you'll probably have to be playing the waiting/unsettling game for a little while, until the selling team is more-or-less forced into selling to you. Bottom line, don't expect to find a wonderkid and buy him on the cheap within even one transfer window.

[mchbitil]

Now please stop with these silly comparisons to real life, so far all you have highlighted is that players might be available for a lot less than they are in real life.

I don't know where this is coming from. Don't attribute to me something that I didn't say.

[mchbitil]

Just so you're aware Martial can be bought for €15m at the start of a save in FM15, taking into account his age & starting CA his PPA will be 190+.

Martial's PA in my save is

158

. And at the start of a save he has almost no first team appearances and he is far from being key player. Sure, in FM you can buy such players for €15M, and the point is that it is too expensive for such player - he should be available for 3M maximum.

[mchbitil]

That quite simply is not true, a player I signed for €750,000 from a lower league side while managing Athletic Club went on to score 36 league goals in his first full season, 49 in total & has kept to a better than a goal per game ratio even after I left the club.

I have also recently bought a 4/5 star PA 18 year old DM from Pescara for my AC Milan side, he cost me €2.4m & PSG sold me a 4 star PA 21 year old DC for €4.5m although it turns out my scouts might have over-estimated his ability & potential.

You are talking about way older players with 4 stars PA. I was talking about 16 year olds 5 star PA. Way different prices. Of course there is loads of 21 year olds with 4 stars PA in a game available for a few million, and it is even too expensive for them.

Also given CA of current Milan team, what's 4 star for Milan will be 3 or 3.5 star for MU.

[mchbitil]

You've still not given any proper examples. Both players can be bought on FM for cheaper.

Because their PA is very low in FM. This is something to be taken on scouting / data forum.

You can buy wonderkids for much cheaper.

This is an unfounded statement.

You can buy Key Players for much less than United paid.

Sometimes, yes. But not 19-year olds which have 5 star PA

So, again, what is your point?

Well, if you read what I said, then you would see what is my point - that prices for promising and high level players in FM are several times more expensive than in real life, sometimes 10x and more.

I buy valuable players for less than 20m. I buy wonderkids for (on average) 3m-4m. Both of these cases shoot holes into your isolated examples.

I just bought 2 brilliant 5 star PA regens for 3.5m and 2.6m. I bought 1 the previous season for 6m. If you look, you'll find them.

Show me examples.

The difference is that you are trying to present some isolated examples. I'm saying that I scouted the whole world for many seasons and there is not a single 5-star teenager available for a reasonable price, never. The only case when a 5-star teenager is available is when he has a low release clause (fortunately happened a few times for me). This is not isolated example, unlike yours.

Also, if you are saying that buying a regen for 3.5M (you didn't say age, but I assume 16 year old) is ok, then well, we disagree here. In real life nobody pays 3.5M for 16-year olds. The highest ever fee for 16-year old was 3M for Odegaard, and we can see clearly that he is highest-rated 16 year old who was playing in main squad and in national team (the guy like this would easily go for 15-30M in FM15). For 16 year old that plays in u-18 or u-21 squad, reasonable fee would be under a million.

I don't know why are you so hostile and want to fight so badly. Did I insult you somehow or did I do anything wrong to you personally? Or are you just like that to everyone on this forum? If you continue in such a manner I will have to stop participating in this conversation, I attend this forum for fun and good time, not to participate in fights. The weirdest thing here is that you are a moderator, and I would assume that it's actually moderator's job to keep forum civil, not to start fights.

Anyway this thread was not started by me, I only added my experience to what seems obvious problem of FM15 which I remember was discussed to death last November already. What's the point to discuss it further? I just hope in FM16 it will be fixed and we'll be able to sign young players for reasonable money.

[samdiatmh]

Just so you're aware Martial can be bought for €15m at the start of a save in FM15, taking into account his age & starting CA his PPA will be 190+.

just so you're aware, Martial can't actually get anywhere near a 190PA ingame, as he's a

-9

even as ManUtd, that probably rates him as a 4.5* player at best

also, clubs know that ManUtd are desperate for a striker, so they know that they'll get over the odds for their players

being an editor junkie, you can set values for players of a set CA (and possibly PA) within bands of 10

if the person exceeds this limit, then you can assume that he's either got a:

-high potential

-club that doesn't want to sell

The highest ever fee for 16-year old was 3M for Odegaard

and lie - Walcott was 16 when he left Southampton for 5m rising to 12m in 2006 (okay, he may have turned 17 in a couple of months, but still)

also, for the record, I've signed a world beating CM (in FM14) for 23.5m - he was a 4* player (bear in mind I'd won the CL multiple times by this point) and had made ~30 national team appearances

plus, on FM12, I signed my future DM for 4m (was 2m upfront and 2m after international appearance) from Rennes at 17

I also seem to remember signing a 195PA 16yo GK for 3.5m (I checked that PA before I sold him - bought him solely on his attributes) but I did pounce REALLY quickly [he literally just signed a pro deal]

but then I've also turned down the option of signing some Ukrainian DL for 10m, because he was 16 and unproven

[mchbitil]

and lie - Walcott was 16 when he left Southampton for 5m rising to 12m in 2006 (okay, he may have turned 17 in a couple of months, but still)

Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. This stat is very difficult to find online.

Here is important note: Walcott had 21 games in Championship already by that time, which definitely increased his transfer price, compared to players who only play in reserve games.

And apparently this kind of transfer fee for 16-year old is once-in-a-decade in real life.

[mchbitil]

but then I've also turned down the option of signing some Ukrainian DL for 10m, because he was 16 and unproven

And this Ukrainian guy wouldn't join you till he is 18 anyway

[BoxToBox]

They're hard to find, and they should be.

I've picked up one of the best players I've ever seen for 1.4m, if you take punts and poach players before they negotiate contracts after intakes, you can get them for far less.