So many injuries, seriously?!?!

[rale93lfc]

Ok, this is not normal. For who knows which time, i get injured 3 players in one game, i sub all of them then i get injured one more player so i am left with 10 on 80thmin pitch and 3-1 lead for me becomes 3-3 draw in 10 minutes. This is not normal, how many times did you saw this in normal life ? It is strange how easily players get injured in FM15, i got screenshots when i had 7-8 injured players at same times. And i am not doing anything wrong. I got training level on avarge, 5 star fitness coaches, rotating squad all that but is useles. Consider to fix this in FM16.

[samdiatmh]

then upload the save from just before your next game and let's see what's going on

[HUNT3R]

Ok, this is not normal. For who knows which time, i get injured 3 players in one game, i sub all of them then i get injured one more player so i am left with 10 on 80thmin pitch and 3-1 lead for me becomes 3-3 draw in 10 minutes. This is not normal, how many times did you saw this in normal life ? It is strange how easily players get injured in FM15, i got screenshots when i had 7-8 injured players at same times. And i am not doing anything wrong. I got training level on avarge, 5 star fitness coaches, rotating squad all that but is useles. Consider to fix this in FM16.

More info needed. Don't just assume it's the game. Are they injury prone? How match fit were they? What was their starting condition and their condition at the time they got injured? What was the pitch condition like? Could your tactical setup have made this worse?

7-8 players out injured at one time is high, but not abnormal.

[toby14]

More info needed. Don't just assume it's the game. Are they injury prone? How match fit were they? What was their starting condition and their condition at the time they got injured? What was the pitch condition like? Could your tactical setup have made this worse?

7-8 players out injured at one time is high, but not abnormal.

How can your tactics have an effect on the amount of injuries you get?

[themadsheep2001]

How can your tactics have an effect on the amount of injuries you get?

Intensity of play. For a example a high pressing high tempo game, or a game where the players are set up to be extremely physical with their tackling.

[HUNT3R]

Intensity of play. For a example a high pressing high tempo game, or a game where the players are set up to be extremely physical with their tackling.

This, especially on a poor pitch.

[Cougar2010]

How can your tactics have an effect on the amount of injuries you get?

To add to what TMS & Hunt3r have said above another possibility is that if you play a slower possession game while the opposition press and perhaps target certain players you could them being on the end of heavy tackles which could cause injury.

[Jack Rudd]

In the Euro 2012 final, Italy got an injury after using all three subs, and went on to concede two goals after the injury.

[mack4ever]

Ok, this is not normal. For who knows which time, i get injured 3 players in one game, i sub all of them then i get injured one more player so i am left with 10 on 80thmin pitch and 3-1 lead for me becomes 3-3 draw in 10 minutes. This is not normal, how many times did you saw this in normal life ? It is strange how easily players get injured in FM15, i got screenshots when i had 7-8 injured players at same times. And i am not doing anything wrong. I got training level on avarge, 5 star fitness coaches, rotating squad all that but is useles. Consider to fix this in FM16.

4 injuries in a game is unlucky, but unless it's happening very frequently then it's not a bug, it's simply a bit of bad luck. Possibly being aggravated by you picking players who are not fully fit, or have just come back from another injury, or playing a style which allows them to be targeted by the opposition.

As for having 8 injured players at once, that's annoying but not a bug. There were times in the last two seasons where clubs in the Premiership had 10 or more players out at the same time, do you think they were all complaining that there was a bug in the worlds code?

[rale93lfc]

I will post again if it happens me again during next few months.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I will post again if it happens me again during next few months.

Why? There's no 'bug' in the game. If you get an injury crisis, then you deal with it, it's all part of football. If you feel something is genuinely off, then post it in the bugs forum, or upload the save for others here to have a look at. Simply posting that you have a lot of injuries at one isn't going to get you much sympathy on here.

[Kalemlyco]

Currently have 11 out myself in my current save. 3 of them long term but the rest all a week or two each. No complaints here just it happens. Does mean I get to give the younger players a break and found a gem hidden in them!

[Xavessi]

I had about 11 injuries as well half way through a season, at which point I gave up and went back to fm 2014.

They changed the way players lose condition during matches without balancing other factors, thus leading to more (and sometimes much more) injuries during matches.

[HUNT3R]

I had about 11 injuries as well half way through a season, at which point I gave up and went back to fm 2014.

They changed the way players lose condition during matches without balancing other factors, thus leading to more (and sometimes much more) injuries during matches.

If you had 11 injuries, you either did something wrong or you were very unlucky. It's still in line with the higher levels of real life, but it takes something special to be that unlucky in FM. It depends if this was a one off or if you regularly had so many out injured. The NUMBER of injuries are spot on, if still slightly below real life levels.

The match vs training ratio has been acknowledge though and will have been looked at for FM16.

[Jibby123]

I do check their injury history before I buy any player and any scout report that comes back saying the player is susceptible or might have a problem with injuries I instantly disregard even if they do like the next Messi or are already even close to the current one. It's a deal breaker. End of. Nobody wants a squad of Jack Willshire's or Kieron Dyer's or Andy Carroll's. However good a job they could do (when/if fit and/or available).

I also never start a first team player after an injury lay off until he is 90%+ fit, or make him available for reserves/U21's etc. I also rotate as much as I can and plan my team for today's game looking ahead 4-5 matches.

Five injuries at any one time in a first time squad of 25 is disaster for me and very, very rare. It takes some work, but is worth it, but you will get those freak one off's occasionally and just need to roll with it.

[Xavessi]

If you had 11 injuries, you either did something wrong or you were very unlucky. It's still in line with the higher levels of real life, but it takes something special to be that unlucky in FM. It depends if this was a one off or if you regularly had so many out injured. The NUMBER of injuries are spot on, if still slightly below real life levels.

The match vs training ratio has been acknowledge though and will have been looked at for FM16.

I knew it was likely to happen because of the changes made to player condition, so it definitely wasn't unlucky. So you are right, I was doing something wrong, ie working my players too hard during matches.

Having said that though, it was still reason enough for me to decide I no longer wanted to play fm 2015.

As a simulation, I found these changes to be unrealistic. IRL, if you ask too much from your team they don't run themselves into the ground like mindless automatons and pick up a two month injury (always seems to be two months in my case). They should behave more like real players ie stop sprinting, stop challenging for balls and generally just become less involved.

[Cougar2010]

As a simulation, I found these changes to be unrealistic. IRL, if you ask too much from your team they don't run themselves into the ground like mindless automatons and pick up a two month injury (always seems to be two months in my case). They should behave more like real players ie stop sprinting, stop challenging for balls and generally just become less involved.

Which is exactly what happens but they are at a higher risk of injury.

Calling a simulation unrealistic when the changes make it more realistic is a bit backwards. If you wanted more realism you should have been using more realistic tactics then injuries wouldn't have been a problem.

[Xavessi]

Which is exactly what happens but they are at a higher risk of injury.

Calling a simulation unrealistic when the changes make it more realistic is a bit backwards. If you wanted more realism you should have been using more realistic tactics then injuries wouldn't have been a problem.

It is unrealistic for the reasons I have already identified.

[Cougar2010]

It is unrealistic for the reasons I have already identified.

No it isn't, injuries are on a par with RL albeit there are more in match and less in training.

You can't claim it to be unrealistic when its your actions & choices that cause it.

[Xavessi]

No it isn't, injuries are on a par with RL albeit there are more in match and less in training.

You can't claim it to be unrealistic when its your actions & choices that cause it.

No, I claimed that the simulation is unrealistic for the reasons I have already posted.

For your benefit, I will try to explain again:

I deliberately work my players very hard during the match. If the simulation was realistic the players would slow down , stop challenging and generally become less involved. I believe this is close to what real humans would do and you would not see a great increase in injuries.

What happens in fm 2015 is the players continue to work too hard , lose condition rapidly and get injured. I have seen 4-5 players get injured in one match.

My point is that the simulation is not realistic because this would never happen IRL. You are questioning why I would deploy such tactics, and I am not disagreeing with the stupidity of my tactics - my point is in regard to the failure of the simulation.

[jaysdailydose]

No, I claimed that the simulation is unrealistic for the reasons I have already posted.

For your benefit, I will try to explain again:

I deliberately work my players very hard during the match. If the simulation was realistic the players would slow down , stop challenging and generally become less involved. I believe this is close to what real humans would do and you would not see a great increase in injuries.

What happens in fm 2015 is the players continue to work too hard , lose condition rapidly and get injured. I have seen 4-5 players get injured in one match.

My point is that the simulation is not realistic because this would never happen IRL. You are questioning why I would deploy such tactics, and I am not disagreeing with the stupidity of my tactics - my point is in regard to the failure of the simulation.

That's why they give you the player and the team instructions. If you saw your fitness levels were dropping and didn't alter your own instructions to stop your players from expending themselves so hard, why would that be unrealistic?

You yourself concede that you are deploying these tactics -- and you know that you could change them. It is your failure to alter your instructions that is giving you problems, not anything to do with the simulation. Players are injured during overuse all the time, just look at a pitcher in American baseball. If you tell people to expend crazy amounts of energy when they are tired, some of them are going to break.

To suggest that players are not regularly injured in real life when they are giving 100% in differing levels of condition is disingenuous at best.

[Xavessi]

That's why they give you the player and the team instructions. If you saw your fitness levels were dropping and didn't alter your own instructions to stop your players from expending themselves so hard, why would that be unrealistic?

You yourself concede that you are deploying these tactics -- and you know that you could change them. It is your failure to alter your instructions that is giving you problems, not anything to do with the simulation. Players are injured during overuse all the time, just look at a pitcher in American baseball. If you tell people to expend crazy amounts of energy when they are tired, some of them are going to break.

To suggest that players are not regularly injured in real life when they are giving 100% in differing levels of condition is disingenuous at best.

I never suggested that players are not regularly injured in real life.

My issue is with the amount of injuries you can force on your team by working them very hard.

I am not looking for tactical suggestions, I already know why I am able to cause an injury crisis. I am pointing out that the simulation is breaking down in an unrealistic way.

The important point is that many managers will make the mistake of working their players too hard and the simulation should represent this better.

[Cougar2010]

No, I claimed that the simulation is unrealistic for the reasons I have already posted.

For your benefit, I will try to explain again:

I deliberately work my players very hard during the match. If the simulation was realistic the players would slow down , stop challenging and generally become less involved. I believe this is close to what real humans would do and you would not see a great increase in injuries.

What happens in fm 2015 is the players continue to work too hard , lose condition rapidly and get injured. I have seen 4-5 players get injured in one match.

You clearly aren't watching the matches because players do slow down, stop challenging & become less involved when their condition drops.

They also become more likely to pick up injuries due to being tired.

My point is that the simulation is not realistic because this would never happen IRL. You are questioning why I would deploy such tactics, and I am not disagreeing with the stupidity of my tactics - my point is in regard to the failure of the simulation.

But the simple fact is these things do happen IRL when players get tired so the simulation is realistic.

[Xavessi]

You clearly aren't watching the matches because players do slow down, stop challenging & become less involved when their condition drops.

They also become more likely to pick up injuries due to being tired.

But the simple fact is these things do happen IRL when players get tired so the simulation is realistic.

I never denied these things happen.

My point is that the simulation is not accurate when players are overworked. I am sorry if it offends you so much that you have to constantly misrepresent what I am saying.

[samdiatmh]

The important point is that many managers will make the mistake of working their players too hard and the simulation should represent this better.

I think that this is represented pretty well

if you overwork your players, then:

a) you get injuries

or b) you get multiple losses

you've received option a

I'll reiterate my first point, rather than complain about the simulation, upload the save (which you'll have to do anyway to lodge a bug complaint) and let's see what's going on

[Xavessi]

I think that this is represented pretty well

if you overwork your players, then:

a) you get injuries

or b) you get multiple losses

you've received option a

I'll reiterate my first point, rather than complain about the simulation, upload the save (which you'll have to do anyway to lodge a bug complaint) and let's see what's going on

I can overwork my team during a match and get 4-5 players injured before 90 minutes are up. Is this realistic in your world? For me, the simulation is breaking down if I can send out a team and deliberately get that many injuries.

Is is really such a bad idea that players should react with a bit of common sense and actually try to avoid becoming injured when they are tired?

Also, this is a general forum so we can discuss these issues here. There is really no need for the 'upload a save' bug report rudeness.

[Cougar2010]

I can overwork my team during a match and get 4-5 players injured before 90 minutes are up. Is this realistic in your world? For me, the simulation is breaking down if I can send out a team and deliberately get that many injuries.

Any evidence of that?

I've had several matches that have gone to extra time where players have finished close to 50% condition without being injured.

In fact given I have few problems with injuries then I suspect something else is going on with your save. Given your claims it would only be fair to upload your save so everyone can see the big picture.

[Xavessi]

Any evidence of that?

I've had several matches that have gone to extra time where players have finished close to 50% condition without being injured.

In fact given I have few problems with injuries then I suspect something else is going on with your save. Given your claims it would only be fair to upload your save so everyone can see the big picture.

Just try it for yourself.

Why do you need to ask other people for evidence? you have the game right?

[samdiatmh]

because (like Cougar) I have no issues with injuries, regularly getting through a whole season with a quad of under 20

[Cougar2010]

Just try it for yourself.

Why do you need to ask other people for evidence? you have the game right?

Because it doesn't happen to me!!!!!!!!!

So either you are playing a different game, its not as bad as you are making out or something else you are doing is making it worse.

Uploading your save would give everyone an opportunity to look at what you see otherwise you leave people to draw their own conclusions and mine at the moment points to you being less than fully honest.

[Dagenham_Dave]

So, let me get this straight. Xavessi is admitting it is his own fault that he's pushing his players too hard, thus causing injuries in his squad - Yet is still blaming the game for not having the 'common sense' to override these actions to prevent injuries?

Wow. Just wow.

[Xavessi]

Correct.

The reason I did it is because many managers are suffering an injury crisis without realising that when players lose condition they become unrealistically injury prone, so I wanted to see for myself how far I could push it.

What I found is that I can cause an injury crisis when I play with an extremely hard working tactic irregardless of training. I found that many players get injured (with a tendency for 2 months) towards the end of matches - with a worst case scenario of four or five injuries in a game.

In my opinion, this is not well simulated.

[Svenc]

I played such a tactics in my most frequent save too, 90 minutes, as I wanted to replicate a dirty, hard-working, nitty-gritty kind of football, and didn't suffer much of anything -- and I had picked up Adriano on a freebie (if you don't understand, check his stats and let a scout of yours check him out). Admittedly I rested him ever three games or two though. It's definitely an influence you should consider (and it should be), but it's not that you're absolutely guaranteed a busy sickbay.

It's not as simplistic as that. It's a dynamic thing. It's injury proneness, tactics, fixture congestion, pitch condition, climate and weather conditions, match dynamics (90 minutes of ball kicking in full!), training regimes, random chance. Not a single player is going to experience the exact same thing even when managing the exact same team, and if he would restart the save with the exact same team the experience will still differ somewhat every time. As such individual crisis will happen, the same as the opposite, and you can sympathize when it hits somebody hard. What is 100% correct though, and for me this is actually a criticism, is that overall both the number of players out injured at any time as well as the days players have to bow out over the course of a season -- both of these numbers are and have always been consistently lower on FM than in real football. Last season the long-term physio regime at Bayern Munich that was there when Beckenbauer, Müller et all were still playing on the field was sacked, that's never going to happen in FM. Sides going into season preparations with 14 players injured? Rare real-life scenarios, I couldn't even replicate it when I edited every player to injury proneness 20.

So this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. FM can be frustrating, yes, but the aim is football, not Fifa. There is, and never has been, anything too severe in terms of overall amounts of injuries, it's actually rather the opposite. Luckily it has already announced that the reworked injury module isn't going to result in fewer injuries. Speaking about the influence of random chance, there's thousands of players whose injury attribute is randomized as of the latest official DB. Mostly it is lower league sides or young players who obviously can't yet be assessed 100%. Not all of them naturally are going to end up with high attributes, it will be a fraction. But that's influence of random chance nonetheless too.

[Xavessi]

From what you say, you have played hard working tactics in a leading league. In my experience the simulation is not as robust at a lower level.

Have you tried the same experiment with lesser quality players?

[Dagenham_Dave]

Correct.

The reason I did it is because many managers are suffering an injury crisis without realising that when players lose condition they become unrealistically injury prone, so I wanted to see for myself how far I could push it.

What I found is that I can cause an injury crisis when I play with an extremely hard working tactic irregardless of training. I found that many players get injured (with a tendency for 2 months) towards the end of matches - with a worst case scenario of four or five injuries in a game.

In my opinion, this is not well simulated.

How many real life managers deliberately try and 'cause an injury crisis' for you to make a comparison as to how well it's simulated?

[Sussex Hammer]

Whilst I haven't experienced too many major injury crisis's, at the same time I am careful not to use three tactical subs in a game because you will always get a knock if you do!! I always try to sub a player with a knock as well because more often than not if you leave them on a knock could end up a long term injury and it's not worth the risk IMO.

However certain players are just a waste of time having them in your squad whatever save you have running. I play FMC but in every save I have played Andy Carroll is just totally and utterly injury prone and there is nothing at all you can do about it. Yes he seems injury prone IRL and is down as susceptible to injuries in the game but it is frustrating that you can't really man manage him back to full fitness by use of say "condition training" or something similar.

Since he has come back from a real life injury in my most recent save he has been out with :

13/12/14 - Fractured arm - 4 weeks - match

10/01/15 - Pulled hamstring - 3 weeks - match

15/04/15 - Double hernia - 7 weeks - training

06/02/16 - Twisted Knee - 2 weeks - match

01/05/16 - Pulled Hamstring - 4 weeks - match

These are only the major ones as well. Pretty much every game he plays, and most have been as a sub, he gets a little kick and is walking wounded or I am told he needs to come off and it seems impossible to cure him or gently bring him back via use of 15 minutes here or there in the reserves.

It's just a shame you cannot do anything at all if you have an injury prone player.

[Kalemlyco]

I do remember a little while ago... I think actually it might have been in a CM game but if a player kept breaking down with an injury you could send them for surgery to get it looked at and repaired. To be fair I quite liked this feature. If he keeps breaking down with the same injury I would like to see that feature brought back maybe? If he's just injury prone then I don't see what could be done...

[Guest]

From what you say, you have played hard working tactics in a leading league. In my experience the simulation is not as robust at a lower level.

Have you tried the same experiment with lesser quality players?

I'm an LLM player so I'll spend a good number of seasons trying to get a career off the ground in the lower leagues of Europe, on FM14 I spent 10 seasons plying my trade in the lower leagues including the German Oberliga.

I always tend towards a high tempo, high pressing game yet I cannot recall the last time I had a real injury crisis.

The issue is with what you're doing, it's certainly not that the game is allowing you to make poor decision in your squad management.

[freekicksmafia]

3 injuries in 15 minutes while you're 2-1 up 3 points off a playoff spot on the second last game of the season, no such thing as rubber band though

[themadsheep2001]

3 injuries in 15 minutes while you're 2-1 up 3 points off a playoff spot on the second last game of the season, no such thing as rubber band though

Correct, no such thing as rubber banding.

[forameuss]

3 injuries in 15 minutes while you're 2-1 up 3 points off a playoff spot on the second last game of the season, no such thing as rubber band though

It's good that you've seen the truth. It'd just be sad if you kept blaming unthinking, unfeeling blocks of code for things going wrong really.

[Jibby123]

Whilst I haven't experienced too many major injury crisis's, at the same time I am careful not to use three tactical subs in a game because you will always get a knock if you do!! I always try to sub a player with a knock as well because more often than not if you leave them on a knock could end up a long term injury and it's not worth the risk IMO.

However certain players are just a waste of time having them in your squad whatever save you have running. I play FMC but in every save I have played Andy Carroll is just totally and utterly injury prone and there is nothing at all you can do about it. Yes he seems injury prone IRL and is down as susceptible to injuries in the game but it is frustrating that you can't really man manage him back to full fitness by use of say "condition training" or something similar.

Since he has come back from a real life injury in my most recent save he has been out with :

13/12/14 - Fractured arm - 4 weeks - match

10/01/15 - Pulled hamstring - 3 weeks - match

15/04/15 - Double hernia - 7 weeks - training

06/02/16 - Twisted Knee - 2 weeks - match

01/05/16 - Pulled Hamstring - 4 weeks - match

These are only the major ones as well. Pretty much every game he plays, and most have been as a sub, he gets a little kick and is walking wounded or I am told he needs to come off and it seems impossible to cure him or gently bring him back via use of 15 minutes here or there in the reserves.

It's just a shame you cannot do anything at all if you have an injury prone player.

It is frustrating and I just move players on like that.

But you shouldn't be able to do much about it. That's the reality of real life. If there was a gamey work-around to by-pass what the best sports scientists and fitness experts can't fix in real life then it would take something away from the game imvho. Some players just are, always will be and the likes of Andy Carroll are just that. The Darren Anderton's, Michael Owen's and Kieron Dyers are pretty well represented in the game I think.

[evertonmarc]

From physioroom.com - uptodate real-life list of premiership clubs current injury list:

Newcastle United 12 players out currently

Manchester City 9 players out currently

Everton 8 players out currently

Crystal Palace 7 players out currently

Aston Villa 6 players out currently

Liverpool 6 players out currently

[sjh567]

"do you think they were all complaining there was a bug in the worlds code?"................mourinho would

[Overmars]

From physioroom.com - uptodate real-life list of premiership clubs current injury list:

Newcastle United 12 players out currently

Manchester City 9 players out currently

Everton 8 players out currently

Crystal Palace 7 players out currently

Aston Villa 6 players out currently

Liverpool 6 players out currently

I would assume this includes many reserve players whereas most injuries in FM occur during competitive matches (i.e. to first teamers). It isn't quite a fair comparison for that reason.

[HUNT3R]

I would assume this includes many reserve players whereas most injuries in FM occur during competitive matches (i.e. to first teamers). It isn't quite a fair comparison for that reason.

They're not. www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php#c8