Zone 14 and the Christmas Tree

[herne79]

Now that we are approaching the launch of FM16, I started scratching my head a bit in terms of what to do next (if anything) in FM15.

Going through some old reading material, I came across a couple of articles concerning Zone 14 with some analysis of how the French national team used it to their advantage in the 1998 World Cup. A save inspired by that 4-3-2-1 "Christmas Tree" formation is something I have long meant to get around to doing, so there is my final inspiration for an FM15 save .

What I'd like to do is share my thought process in how I go about setting things up and developing my chosen team into (hopefully) silverware winners. In doing so, I also want to try to demonstrate how reading through other articles on this forum (to which I will link in the appropriate places) can help me (and you !) build a successful tactic.

First, a quick word about Zone 14.

I don't always like to post links to external sites, however a quick Google of football zone 14 will turn up some results, with leochan's blog showing some good stuff if you want to read further.

Essentially, it's possible to break a football pitch up into 18 zones to aid tactical analysis. Zone 14 is the area just outside the opposition's penalty area and can therefore be interpreted as one of the key zones from which to create and score goals. The France '98 team seem to have been particular proponents of this, which fits in beautifully with my stated ambition of creating a save using that team as my inspiration.

Straight away, you can see the formation relates perfectly to Zone 14 - and something that I want to exploit in my save.

My Chosen Team

Arsenal.

Something I umm'd and ahh'd about for a while. My reasons for choosing Arsenal are several:

- I don't really enjoy lower league management.

- The Zidane role is going to be key (looking at you Mesut).

- As good as Arsenal are, the challenge will be in Europe.

- They have a good, well balanced squad which won't require many changes.

- In fact I purposely don't want to make large changes, despite Arsenal having a massive transfer budget (sound familiar?).

- The squad lends itself pretty well to the original French line up.

- I can get Wenger out of the game .

First Steps

Here, before I start looking at the tactic, I'm going to bring in Jambo and his thread on club DNA. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/418031-Creating-a-footballing-DNA-Athletic-Club

I'm not going to restate all of his good work, so I'd encourage you to have a read through.

Applying this to Arsenal, I need to find out what sort of club I have got my hands on and make decisions from there. My first clue is my day one meeting with the Chairman. I'm expected to play Possession Football, Attacking Football and Develop Youth Players for the First Team. Good stuff.

Next up is my Team Report Comparison. This will tell me where my squad's Strengths and Weaknesses lie in comparison with the rest of the league.

So, overall I have a very technical team, that lacks strength.

My Goalkeepers are amongst the best there is, although lets avoid try to throw the ball.

My Defenders have great defensive abilities, but lack strength. I need to note that whilst Pace overall is excellent, one notable exception can barely break into a jog.

My Midfield is incredibly technically gifted, so I should be able to pass the ball.

In Attack, I have blistering pace but probably best if I try to avoid heading the ball too much.

**NOTE** - It's useful to drill down into the squad a bit after doing this initial analysis. On the face of it (for example), Arsenal's attack are lightning fast but can't head the ball. Without then drilling down into the squad, Giroud would be completely overlooked.

In terms of club DNA then, I'm not going to change things too much initially, but rather focus on playing to our strengths whilst still relating back to France and Zone 14.

Therefore, I want to:

- Encourage Passing and Movement, primarily playing the ball to feet.

- Have a strong defensive screen in midfield to recycle the ball back into attack.

- Use positional awareness where possible rather than rely on Pace, especially in Defence.

I'm going to leave it at that for the time being. I don't want to be too specific yet, but this should give me some good general principles to start with.

The Formation and Player Roles

No choice here, the 4-3-2-1 is my only option. The following is my initial set up and my thought process.

In terms of forum resources, these two provide great information regarding the use of space and player combinations:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/420475-Bust-the-Net-Football-Manager-Tactics

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-FM2015-UPDATED

Starting from the back:

Defence

Goalkeeper - Sweeper Keeper (support). I don't plan on playing with a particularly high defensive line (ref. my Positional Awareness DNA) so a bog standard Goalkeeper would probably be fine. However, I see no downside to using a Sweeper Keeper, especially as Szczesny has 16 for Rushing Out. He can't throw for toffees, and his kicking isn't much better, so he can have a PI of Short Passing.

Central Defenders - Central Defender (defend) x 2. Mertesacker and Koscielny are my first choice centre backs. They both have incredible defensive and mental attributes, but put Per in a footrace with my Great Aunt Doris who died 30 years ago and he'd lose. Ultimately this will have an impact on my Mentality and Team Instructions - and is a key part of Positional Awareness DNA. Luckily, Koscielny and my rotation option Paulista can both run a bit and therefore dictates which side of defence I will put them - I have a very attack minded right back, so I will use what pace I have in my central defenders in the DCR position. Mertesacker therefore slots into DCL.

Note - the France side let their centre backs roam forwards on occasion. This is not possible to replicate in FM, so I'm ignoring it.

Right Fullback - Complete Wingback (attack). Referring back to the French team, Thuram was a pretty freeing running fullback, who was effective both in attack and in defence. Chambers has the potential to develop into this role - he already has great Technical attributes, but could use a boost to his Physicals. At 19, he'll develop well especially with some Tutoring.

Left Fullback - Wingback (support). Looking at the Midfield and Attack, this is not a team with a symmetry of roles. Whilst I have a charging wingback on the right, with a defence and midfield to match (see below), my left wingback should move forwards with a little more caution, staying in line with play rather than bombing ahead. As I have no wingers, I choose the Wingback (support) role, rather than Fullback (support).

Note - I prefer using Wingbacks when there is no Winger ahead, and Fullbacks when I do use a Winger. Personal preference.

Midfield

I've chosen to use the Midfield strata rather than the Defensive Midfield strata. I think the DM line would be workable, however I feel I can better use and manage the space, along with better positional and link up play by putting my players into the MC line.

Central Centre Midfield - Deep Lying Playmaker (defend). This is my Deschamps, my on pitch General. I don't want a fairly passive midfielder, who is just going to spray passes around, in the mold of a Carrick or Alonso. I want someone with a good workrate, not afraid to stick in a challenge, screen my defenders and will also be good on the ball. A DLP (defend) plus a fairly aggressive player seems like a logical choice to me - and I have that in Wilshere, with Arteta as backup.

Right Centre Midfield - Ball Winning Midfielder (defend). With a charging fullback on this side and a Trequartista ahead, I need someone who can provide some aggressive cover. A Central Midfielder (defend) could be an option, but with a DLP(d) already that's probably overkill. BWM is my choice and I'll watch how this position plays out on the pitch, with a view to changing it to a support duty if I feel I have been overly cautious. Flamini is ok here, but I need someone better. Kranevitter is a bargain at £5m and proves to be my only significant signing.

Left Centre Midfield - Box to Box Midfielder. With two defence minded players already in midfield, I need someone to provide some balance, who will get forward regularly to support the attack and provide defensive cover when needed. A Box to Box Midfielder is my choice and will hopefully combine well with the supporting wingback on that side of the pitch, along with providing good link up play with the attack.

Attacking Midfield

Centre Right Attacking Midfield - Trequartista. Zidane's role, and really the entire focus of the tactic. Everything should revolve around it and where Zone 14 really comes into it's own. I have 3 choices here - TQ, Attacking Playmaker (support) and AP (attack). As far as I can tell, Zidane was basically left to do whatever he liked, so I am going to start with the Trequartista role. I will experiment with the 2 AP roles as well, but would need to add in a PI of "Roam from Position" to help. Ozil is a complete no-brainer here, especially with his PPM of "Comes Deep to Get Ball". Cazorla will be a great backup and will be an interesting option as he lacks that PPM.

I expect to see some good interchanges with the CWB down the right, and rely on my BWM behind to mop things up when attacks break down.

Centre Left Attacking Midfield - Shadow Striker. The primary attacking threat from midfield, although interestingly Djorkaeff only scored one goal at the '98 World Cup. Alexis Sanchez should absolutely nail this role.

Striker - Deep Lying Forward (support). My first thought here was Target Man (support). But all that will do is encourage long balls, thus bypassing my stated DNA intent. Looking into this further, I can bring in two trains of thought - a Myth and Cleon's Deep Lying Forward thread http://sisportscentre.com/meet-the-deep-lying-forward/

The Myth - Guivarc'h did indeed start the World Cup final, as shown in the formation picture at the top of this thread. However, lets analyse his contribution in the competition a bit closer.

France played a total of 7 matches, including the Final. Of those matches, Guivarc'h only started in 4 and was substituted in every single one of them (in the 26th minute in one, and around the hour mark in the other 3). Of the remaining 3 matches, he came on as a sub on two and didn't feature at all in the other. Allowing for 3 minutes of injury time per match, and the extra time played in 2, France had a total of 713 minutes played. Guivarc'h was on the pitch for 277 minutes - 38.8% of the time. He didn't score a single goal.

(I'm an analytical geek, I admit it).

Bearing that in mind, it's hardly something to get too hung up on and base a tactic around.

I will, however, at least start with a flavour of the original and initially set the striker to a DLF (support). However, in doing so I am concerned that the 3 attackers will be tripping over themselves and an Advanced Forward may prove to be a better option. I'll test this in pre-season with Giroud (DLF) and Welbeck (AF).

I'll take a break there as it's a lot of writing already. I'll get stuck into the tactic in my next post. Hopefully you aren't all too bored yet .

[Der General]

Great read mate. It's always nice to see some relatively old tactics in FM. I like your role selection, and I'm particularly interested in your Trequartista. You have an almost perfect player for "Zidane role" (he only lacks height ), so I'm eager to see how he'll play. KUTGW

[Abaddon879]

Fantastic start, and a great read.

Looking forward to the next update.

[Maaka]

Good one.

[herne79]

ok, onto some tactical work.

For this, I need to start with my DNA:

- Encourage Passing and Movement, primarily playing the ball to feet.

- Have a strong defensive screen in midfield to recycle the ball back into attack.

- Use positional awareness where possible rather than rely on Pace, especially in Defence.

And my agreed club philosophies:

- Play Attacking football.

- Play Possession football.

- Develop youth (not relevant for creating a tactic).

I am also going to bring in another of Jambo's threads there - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/412695-The-4-5-1-The-swiss-army-knife-of-formations

Lets drill into this a bit.

Attacking and Possession Football

All this headline says to me is "dominate matches". Not very single match, just most. I'm also not going to set myself any targets - so long as I (usually) have more possession than my opponents, and create several good scoring chances in most matches, I'll be happy.

Further, I don't believe you need to play with the "Attack" mentality in order to play Attacking football. I think with the formation and player roles I've selected above, I could select the "Defensive" mentality and create loads of chances + nice attacking movement (I'm not going to as you'll see, but it could be a good exercise for me to try out). Refer to Cleon's article for more on that http://sisportscentre.com/category/the-school-of-defensive-arts-2015/.

Further further than that (*ahem*), you don't need to tick the "Retain Possession" Team Instruction in order to play Possession football - I like to think that it's more about Positioning, Movement, Team Work and Pressing.

Club DNA

You may notice that in mentioning attacking and possession football above, I've already started to talk about some of the DNA aspects. Usually in my tactics I tend to be fairly aggressive, creating just one tactic and rarely varying from it. That could work here, but I'm going to follow through with Jambo's thread above, which discusses starting with a base tactic + Team Instructions and changing things as matches develop*.

*A Word on Altering Tactics as Matches Develop

I've seen many posts on this board from people who struggle to watch matches and see what's actually going on (me included to an extent). So I know some people will start to switch off when I wrote that last sentence. What I plan to do further into this thread (once I've finished all of this initial set up stuff) is try to show what else you can see as matches progress that may help you make tactical changes.

Mentality

I'm only going to have one tactic saved, which I'll alter as matches develop. Following through my club DNA, I want to rely more on better positioning, movement and passing than anything else - and as I may well change mentalities at the start of each match (more on that later), I want to keep this fairly neutral for the team to familiarise themselves with. I go with "Standard".

Team Shape

Lets look at what FM's online manual says about this: "Define how structured your team’s shape should be. This effectively lays down plans for how much you want the team to stick to the formation chosen; from a clearly defined system with little room for flexibility to a more fluid, versatile approach".

Hmm, well yes I guess to an extent. What this doesn't mention is individual player creativity and thus decision making.

I have many creative players in the team, but I don't really want everyone trying to express themselves all over the place. Ozil is my main man for this, which is why he has the role that he does. The others are primarily there to feed him, and it is of secondary importance to create things themselves.

I do, however, want players to help out in more than their own phase of play (eg., a midfield defensive screen, ref. my DNA). I therefore go with "Flexible".

Team Instructions

Again (ref. Jambo), these will be my core instructions that I may (or may not) change in matches. They are my starting point.

I'll go through each in turn, but first I'll talk about the "Possession" section - or rather my complete lack of choosing any TIs there.

As stated earlier, the "Retain Possession" option is not a magic button that means you are going to get loads of possession. All it does is promote shorter passing (note "shorter", not "short") and lower the tempo. In my formation, my players are already going to be playing fairly close together purely from the tactical positioning, so instructing them with a TI that will force them to play even closer together could very well end up in a bit of a mess. The chosen mentality will also narrow the formation.

"Work Ball into Box" is kind of the same thing here. With my formation, roles and duties, my players should be doing this anyway, without me telling them to do it.

In fact, there is only 1 TI (possibly 2) that I may consider including, but will 100% depend on what my players get up to in matches, and that is "Play Out of Defence". If my goalie and/or central defenders look like they are just hoofing the ball long, I'll switch to this.

The possible 2nd TI is "Whipped Crosses", but will depend on how the DLF(s) role pans out and the quality of crosses which I expect to primarily come from my CWB on the right flank. Again, I'll have to watch my pre-season friendlies.

Anyway, onto the ones I have picked:

"Push Higher Up". This goes back to my Positioning and midfield screen DNA. A Standard mentality comes with a relatively low defensive line, which would increase the gap between my midfield and defence. Pushing my back line up a bit will help negate this, safe in the knowledge I have a Sweeper Keeper and excellent central defender mental attributes to back it up. However, if I switch up the mentality in a match to Control or even Attack, I'll need to remember to remove this TI as well otherwise the space behind my defence will become too large.

"Close Down Much More". This is the continuation of an experiment. I've come to like this TI, especially in top division teams that have better players. There is an impact on team shape with this TI, but when using players with decent mental attributes this, to me at least, seems somewhat negated. As part of my Possession DNA, this TI ticks another box.

"Stay on Feet". We may be closing the opposition down much more, but the last thing I want is players diving into tackles and getting caught out of position (ref. Positioning DNA). Also seems to reduce fouls and cards.

"Prevent Short Goalkeeper Distribution". For me, this is Possession DNA related. Get their goalie to hoof it long, and with my heavy press I should be able to win the ball back faster.

"Higher Tempo". I'm not trying to play tiki-taka. Win the ball back, do something positive with it. Perhaps I should add that as DNA.

"Be More Expressive". This TI should (I hope) make my team's attacking play slightly more unpredictable by allowing my more attack minded players additional creative freedom over and above their defined tactical roles.

Player Instructions

These will be used sparingly - I can trust my players to make the right decisions (usually) so I don't want to overburden them too many instructions.

Striker and Shadow Striker have Close Down Much More, with the DLF also with Dribble Less (anyone want Giroud trying to Dribble?).

TQ - Shoot Less Often. He's the creative hook, not the goalscorer. Ozil's PPM of "Look for Pass Rather that Attempting to Score" will also help here.

BBM - Close Down Much More + Dribble Less. I want to promote DNA passing and movement.

DLP - Dribble Less.

BWM - Shoot Less Often.

WB and CWB - Fewer Risky Passes. Should reduce speculative crossing and passing.

Central Defenders - Nothing.

Goalie - Distribute to Fullbacks. Szczesny is rubbish at throwing but even he should be able to pick out a close by fullback. I'll keep an eye on his distribution.

And that about covers things. Tutoring, pre-season and in-season training and so on are fully covered already in Cleon's and Rashidi's excellent threads which I encourage people to read. Trying to rehash their great work here would merely make an already stupidly long thread even longer.

Once I get through some pre-season friendlies I'll report further. My first 2 competitive matches are Man City in the Community Shield and Spurs away in the league, so I want to be ready for them. Thanks for reading .

[Jambo98]

Great so far And thanks for the mention

The interesting thing about this tactic, and its somewhat "rise to fame" in subsequent times, is that France rarely used it at all during the 98 world cup. They didnt use it at all during the group stages best i can recall (or can find by looking back). Likewise in the last 16 they started with Henry / Trez / Diomede (!!). IN the quarter they started like this but after an hour removed Karembeu for a striker (whilst also removing Guivarc'h). In the Semi Karembeu only lasted half an hour and it changed a bit then again.

However that doesnt make it any less interesting to look at and try to create I think its really going to be interesting to see how it goes. The formation is quite versatile - You can think of Milan famously using a similar tactic, and even Chelsea under Ancelloti, and each time the actually deployment was quite different.

Looking forward to reading more

[herne79]

Yeh exactly Jambo. I touched on the Guivarc'h myth, but it's almost an entire formation myth.

France's 14 goals that tournament came from 9 different players, Henry top scoring with 3. Even if you just look at the final, both of Zidane's goals came from corners, with Petit's goal coming in the 93rd minute and Brazil knowing it was all over by then anyway. Not really the stuff that legends are made of, but fun to look into .

[Cleon]

These type of threads always appeal to me more than any other and I really can appreciate the effort put into a post like this. I have nothing to offer really atm but wanted to post wishing you luck and to let you know its the best thread I've seen on here for a very long time

[herne79]

Cheers Cleon .

2 matches into pre-season, albeit against small opposition, and I can already see the DLF in this formation isn't going to work.

Take a look at this screen shot of player average positions:

It may be a little hard to see due to all the substitutions I make in pre-season, but the 6 players in the blue box are key. They are my strikers and 2 (err, 4) attacking midfielders.

The 3 players marked as red dots (numbers 9,10 and 11) are Ozil - TQ, Sanchez - SS and Giroud - DLF(s) in the first half. Look how close they all are.

The 3 players marked as white dots (numbers 21, 22, and 23) are Cazorla, Walcott and Welbeck playing as an Advanced Forward in the 2nd half. Much better spacing and this was plain to see in how the team performed in either half.

It's also of note that in the first half, Giroud had 7 shots, with 1 on target and no goals. Welbeck on the other hand also had 7 shots, with 5 on target and he scored 4.

I'll try the DLF with an attack role as well, but I'm already pretty sold on changing my striker to an Advanced Forward. Also fits in with France not playing Guivarc'h in favour of players such as David Trezeguet and Terry 'enry.

[Cleon]

How did there actual contribution during a game look like for the front 3? How involved and how much link up did they do? Also did the opposition make any changes themselves that would have altered the play that you saw your side making in the second half? I'd have assumed tired legs played a big part for the opposition at some stage so play might have become more stretched and easier for your fresher front 3.

[herne79]

Good questions, and a mixed bag.

To answer the last question first, the opposition made 6 changes at half time (I made 11), with a 7th sub in the 70th minute. The lowest condition of one of their players was 63% (he wasn't subbed) - the lowest of one of my players was 62%. The condition of all players through both teams was broadly similar by the end of the match.

Welbeck (who came on at half time) finished at 71% condition, their 2 central defenders finishing at 65%. We scored our penultimate goal in the 75th minute, and our last in the 86th. Tired legs may have had a factor, however there isn't a great difference.

In terms of contribution and link up, I'll post these screen shots of attacking play:

In this first shot, you can see Chambers running down the wing (bottom of screen) with the ball. Giroud has drifted across to him and actually taken up a pretty good position, while Ozil and Sanchez are both marked.

However, in this second shot, Giroud decided to run back into the centre trying to take up almost the same position as Sanchez. Ozil is still marked. Chambers continued his run down the wing and ultimately crossed the ball harmlessly, going out of play.

in this next series of shots, from the 2nd half, we see Debuchy (CWB) with the ball and Cazorla (TQ) dropping deep to receive the pass. Welbeck (AF) is well advanced and creating tons of space.

Cazorla receives the ball while Debuchy continues his run down the wing and gets the ball back from Cazorla. Welbeck and Walcott (SS) are marked, but loads of space is still apparent and now Oxlade (#20, BBM) is joining in leaving their number 7 facing two of my players.

Finally, Cazorla has found more space and receives the ball again from Debuchy. Webeck is still pushing their backline deep, with Walcott still marked and Ox (#20) enjoying the space. It's also interesting to see my BWM(d) - number 18 - covering the flank behind the advancing Debuchy.

This seemed typical of the play in either half - the DLF roaming around taking up space compared to the AF helping to create space. With such a compact front 3 as this formation, I think that could be key to success.

[herne79]

Trequartista vs Advanced Playmaker

As mentioned above, one thing I wanted to try out was whether the "Zidane" role should be a Trequartista or an Advanced Playmaker.

I've now played my remaining pre-season friendlies and the Community Shield match vs Man City (my first real test, which we won on penalties).

(I'll do a Man City write up later, as that threw up something unexpected).

I ran a few matches to compare the role as TQ and AP. Results were quite interesting.

First and foremost, both roles provide great link up play and contribute enormously. Just the number of passes made went from around 65 during the match for a TQ up to around 95 for an AP. On the face of it, that sounds quite good. But it isn't.

Compare these two passes made maps: on the left is the TQ, on the right is the AP.

Look how forward thinking the TQ is, compared to the sideways passing of the AP.

This also has a knock on effect to shots. Again, the TQ tactic is on the left, the AP on the right.

Using a TQ, most shots are coming from inside the box. With an AP, a much larger proportion are being made from distance.

Remember, I'm not using the TI "Work Ball into Box" - I want to rely on my player's passing, movement and positioning (DNA) to do this. Using an AP is clearly not the correct choice for this tactic.

[Der General]

I'd like to see what it looks like in an actual match, formation, midfield positioning etc. I don't like the fact that DLP and BWM are basically holding hands judging by their average positions, but average positions don't mean much without seeing what it looks like against opposition players. Besides that, I do like your approach and tactic, although I'm not a fan of Standard mentality Keep up, can't wait for next update.

Edit: While I was reading the previous post, you've posted what I asked for In the first picture, there is too much space left in the middle (although there is no-one to exploit it), but on the third it looks absolutely perfect.

[jackane24]

Without wishing to be pedantic, I'd be stunned if you had success with Wilshere as a DLP-D. I think he'd be far better suited to the treq role.

[RTHerringbone]

Very nice thread, and post #12 is a really good one. I love it when people really look into specific elements of their system and use the tools in the game to help illustrate their findings. I can't wait until we finally get the prozone stuff on FMC/FMT/FMWhateverIt'sCalled.

[felley]

Great thread, keep up the good work

[Cleon]

Without wishing to be pedantic, I'd be stunned if you had success with Wilshere as a DLP-D. I think he'd be far better suited to the treq role.

Maybe but he has all the attributes to play the DLP role fine, so why would you be stunned if he was successful, seems a bit dramatic no?

[herne79]

Analysis vs Man City - Community Shield

My first real test. For me, pre-season is all about fitness so I don't do much tactical development - apart from ironing out any obvious flaws (such as the DLF and AP conundrum above).

The tactical hard work starts with competitive games, although to be fair if the logic I have applied up to this point is sound, I shouldn't have much to do. We shall see.

As mentioned earlier, we beat Man City on penalties after a 0-0 draw. Pretty uninspiring huh? Actually it was anything but, and hopefully I can demonstrate why not.

Set up and Analysis

As we were up against Man City (who were the favourites to win), I decided not to make any changes to the base tactic to start the match. Exactly as pictured above, albeit with an Advanced Forward rather than a DLF. These are the match stats:

Pretty happy with that.

My overall average rating appears low because both Welbeck and Sanchez got down as low as 6.1 before I sub'd them. Why so low? Basically, Joe Hart played out of his skin and the SS role may need a little tinkering (and/or Sanchez had an off day). Here are my shots (note all the saves):

5 shots from Sanchez, 4 off target and 3 from outside the box. One match isn't enough for me to change things, but it's something I need to keep an eye on.

In terms of overall player positioning, I don't want to get too hung up on the average position heat map as all sorts of factors can have an influence, but it does tell me a couple of things (Arsenal on the left):

First, we were pretty good at pushing Man City back, keeping them playing deep. Big tick there, and when you consider they only had 5 shots (four of which were long range efforts from outside the box), my defence and midfield screen also worked well.

Second, as I initially thought (and noted by Der General above), the DLP an BWM may get in each other's way. Which brings me on to the "something unexpected" I mentioned above.

Manager Bottle

I bottled it. If I had been braver, we'd have won without the need for penalties. I say this because I could see us dominating the match - both on the pitch and in the stats - and I did nothing about it. I started with the base tactic and changed nothing.

With hindsight, I should have changed up to a Control mentality, when my dominance was becoming obvious, to take a few more risks and increase player mentality. I just kept thinking "but this is Man City, they have to start playing soon" which of course they didn't. And before I knew it I was sweating on penalties.

Lesson learned.

Positional Play

To close this little section, I'm going include a few more screen shots of in match play to hopefully demonstrate player positioning in different phases. This may also help understanding of the DLP(d) and BWM(d) interaction, which may or may not not require change (something else to keep my eye on).

1. Starting an Attack. Here, Chambers has received the ball from Szczesny and skinned Milner. Ozil has come looking for the ball which he duly receives, with Kranevitter (BWM) keeping pace. Sanchez and Welbeck have already started forward runs. Ozil passes to Sanchez who knocks it on to Welbeck. First attempt at goal.

2. Possession Lost and Regained. A series of 3 screenshots. In the first, Ozil has the ball in Zone 14 (yay) but is tackled by City's #25 (Fernandinho) who offloads it to Nasri (picture 2). Nasri is swarmed by my heavy press, but manages to get a pass off to Milner (#7). Kranevitter nicks the ball from Milner, with a quick offload back to Ozil who plays in Welbeck. Interesting to see the DLP (Wilshere) and BWM (Kranevitter) positioning in that sequence.

3. Regaining Defensive Shape. Zabaleta has the ball following a poor clearance after Gibbs' initial cross. Arsenal's midfield are already running back to reshape. Under pressure from Gibbs, all Zabaleta can do is clear the ball and we recycle possession.

4. Man City Attack, Arsenal Defend. 3 more screen shots (the last ones, I promise). Zabaleta is advancing, but his passing options are limited. He chooses the forward pass to #7 Milner, who is easily dispossessed by the attending Monreal and offloads the ball to Wilshere who has come short (picture 2). Kranevitter has been covering Nasri (#8) but fins himself in space as Nasri goes to challenge Wilshere (picture 3). A simple pass from Wilshere to Kranevitter who has passing options to launch a counter attack (he passes to Cazorla).

[/img]

Next up is Spurs away in the first league match of the season, which should be another good test.

Things I need to keep an eye on are the Shadow Striker and DLP / BWM positioning. I won't post as much analysis next time, just focus on these two issues and anything unexpected.

[herne79]

Without wishing to be pedantic, I'd be stunned if you had success with Wilshere as a DLP-D. I think he'd be far better suited to the treq role.

Yeh, I don't know why I put Ozil in as the TQ and not Jack .

Bearing in mind I said I want someone fairly aggressive in the DLP role, rather than a less mobile passer (such as Alonso), why do you think Wilshere would fail as a DLP?

[EuanDewar]

Did you use OI's in that match or was it all the base tactic? (great thread btw bud)

[Der General]

You destroyed them on pitch, but couldn't turn dominance into victory. As for DLP-BWM partnership, I'd try DLP-CM(S) as an alternative. Central midfielder role can be tailored to do whatever you want it to, so CM(S) with Hold position and a bit more aggressive closing down could be just what you need. Also, judging from your average positions' screenshot, I'd say your forward (Welbeck) is isolated, but doesn't look like that in match screenshots. I'd think about CF(S), for the same reason I posted in Tuchel topic. Other than that, very pleasing stuff, especially since this is only the beginning.

[herne79]

Did you use OI's in that match or was it all the base tactic? (great thread btw bud)

Thanks.

I never use OIs. I know opinion is divided on OI use or not (even amongst the mods I think). Personally I choose not to use them and prefer to let each tactic speak for itself without other interference. On the other hand, lots of people do use them successfully, so personal preference I guess.

[herne79]

You destroyed them on pitch, but couldn't turn dominance into victory. As for DLP-BWM partnership, I'd try DLP-CM(S) as an alternative. Central midfielder role can be tailored to do whatever you want it to, so CM(S) with Hold position and a bit more aggressive closing down could be just what you need. Also, judging from your average positions' screenshot, I'd say your forward (Welbeck) is isolated, but doesn't look like that in match screenshots. I'd think about CF(S), for the same reason I posted in Tuchel topic. Other than that, very pleasing stuff, especially since this is only the beginning.

Thanks, I agree.

My gut instinct (and most guides) tells me that 2 midfield roles with a defend duty in this sort of set up is overkill, and is in my top 2 things to work on as the game progresses. If I remember correctly, Rashidi went through a similar development in his 4-3-1-2 / 4-1-3-2 tactic. This may prove to be something I can loosen up on as Kranevitter develops (which should be fast, given the amount of playing time he's going to get and his Resolute personality) and as I become more used to how the tactic plays out. Interesting on the CF(s) option, and something else to keep in mind.

I think as far as the AF (Welbeck) position goes, this is probably a case where the avg. position map doesn't paint a good picture. In the City match he was getting into great positions and only Hart playing a blinder stopped him scoring - 11 shots, of which 4 were blocked and the other 7 on target (all saved by Hart) with only 1 from outside the box.

What I really like from the AF role is pushing the opposition defenders back to create space for my attacking midfield. With my original choice of the DLF, he was dropping deep, bringing the defenders with him and thus constricting the space my attacking midfielders need. With the AF, space is now opening up. Only one game I know, but a promising start.

I'm liking all the interest and comments .

[herne79]

Tottenham Away and Being Brave

TL;DR, we won 2-1.

Longer version - this was a game of two halves. Expecting Spurs would come at me from the get go, I started the match as before with the base tactic. I was right in my assumption, and we soaked the pressure up well. Kane scored from a corner in the 9th minute, but no need to panic as we were playing ok.

Nothing much happened during that half - we had a few half decent chances, Spurs were mainly restricted to shooting from distance. 1-0 at half time, Spurs probably just edging it.

Time to be brave and learn from the Man City match.

I made a simple change, wanting to play a slightly more expansive game to stretch Spurs, and switched to a Control mentality from Standard. In doing so, I removed the TIs "Push Higher Up" and "Higher Tempo", as Control would change those up anyway.

Ozil scored twice from open play in the 59th and 68th minutes, in a half we dominated until about the 80th minute when Spurs went for broke, probably switching to Overload. I changed to Defensive mentality and we saw the game out.

Overall, the stats show a fairly even match (see below), but that isn't really how things panned out. Spurs edged the first half, we controlled the 2nd.

Learning Points, Pros and Cons

Pros

- Solid defence, with good midfield screening.

- CWB working the wing well, both in attack and defence.

- TQ is the centre of attention.

- Nice combination play between the WB(s) and the BBM.

- The AF pushes the opposition deep to create space for my attacking midfield.

Cons

- The AF / SS / TQ triumvirate isn't firing on all cylinders, and needs some work. Whilst the AF is great for positioning, he doesn't offer much in the way of team interaction. Just 18 passes all match, all of them in midfield (see below), is no good for teamwork. The TQ is not something I am going to touch, especially with Ozil's PPMs of comes deep to get ball and looks for pass instead of the shot, so either I need to change the AF to something a bit more interactive, or commit to the AF being 100% goal focussed and change the SS to a different role. Both have pros and cons, so I'll experiment.

- The DLP(d) and BWM(d) roles are both good and bad. 2 defensive roles in midfield is probably too conservative, but in hard matches (such as Spurs away), it's probably a decent option given the attacking CWB on that side. I also need to be aware that Wilshere (DLP) has the PPM "Gets Forward Whenever Possible", so if I do switch up the MCR role to support I need to make note of Wilshere's movement.

AF Passing vs Spurs

[jackane24]

Maybe but he has all the attributes to play the DLP role fine, so why would you be stunned if he was successful, seems a bit dramatic no?

Seems a bit literal, no?

I've tried Wilshere in a plethora of roles and in different systems. Only ever had any kind of success from him when I've gotten him dribbling, not something a DLP-D would do very often. Plus his PPMs are not particularly suited to the role.

[herne79]

Small Changes, Big Differences

Since the Spurs result, I've played a few more games to experiment with the front 3 shape and the DLP / BWM combination. Results are (so far) good.

No big tests yet (Dortmund aside), but things are definitely headed in the right direction.

Changes Made

Just 2 small tweaks to 2 roles:

The Shadow Striker is now an Attacking Midfielder (attack); the BWM(d) is still a little up in the air and is played as either a BWM(s) or CM(s) both with the PI "Hold Position".

- Shadow Striker change: As mentioned in a previous post, the choice was to either change the striker to (perhaps) a Complete Forward, to try to bring the SS into play more, or to change the SS. I like how the AF seems to push the opposition defence deeper, thus creating space for my advancing midfield - so I changed the SS to an Attacking Midfielder (attack). Since the change, Sanchez has won 3 PoMs, scored 4 goals and made 2 assists. The AF (Welbeck / Giroud rotation) has scored 8 goals between them.

I'm now actually sweating on the TQ who doesn't seem to be quite involved in build up play as I would like. Hey ho.

- BWM(d) change: Looking at changing this to a support role has always been on my to do list. Changing to a support, I could see this role was actually pushing up quite high to support attacks, and starting to get in the way of my deep dropping and roaming TQ. I changed again to a CM(s) + "Hold Position" TI as suggested by Der General above, which works much better to keep the player a little deeper. I have also tried adding the PI to the BWM(s) role, which also works - so I am a little undecided still. I think this comes down to Interceptions and Tackles (ie., the intended primary function of this role).

Using a CM(s), Interceptions and Tackles made drop significantly, putting more reliance on the DLP(d) role to pick up the slack. For example, the following is from the Hull match.

Zero tackles and only one interception made by the CM(s) - Kranevitter.

Now on the one hand it's great for Wilshere as he is totally bossing the midfield (Jackane24 take note ), which is what I want from the "Deschamps" role. However, on the other hand this is putting probably too much pressure on one player.

Here is another example using a BWM(s) instead (from the Palace match):

The DLP (Arteta) is still working well, but now the BWM (Flamini) is heavily involved as he should be.

Anyway, the long and short of it is things are coming together nicely. I tend to start harder matches with the unchanged core tactic (eg., vs Dortmund), and so-called easier matches I'll start with a Control mentality instead (minus the TIs of Push Higher Up and Higher Tempo).

Very pleasing so far and interesting to see how the rest of the season pans out.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NB - A quick note on Transfers.

I only brought 3 new players in:

- Kranevitter for the BWM/CM role, and a bargain at £5m. A Resolute personality so will develop quickly;

- Jesus Valejo in central defence at the even better bargain price of £1.1m. Reason being Arsenal are thin on decent centre backs and Valejo is a future world class defender. He's only 17 and will also develop quickly (Resolute personality as well).

- Kristoffer Ajer for the absolute bargain price of zero. I doubt he'll ever be my first choice DLP, but Arteta is 32 now, so I'll need a good backup for Wilshere. At 16, Ajer fits the bill and easy to Tutor his personality.

[jackane24]

Now on the one hand it's great for Wilshere as he is totally bossing the midfield (Jackane24 take note )

Shows what I know!

Looking forward to seeing what Cleon says in response to this

[donnybrook]

I played a very similar tactic with Arsenal, a narrow 4-1-2-2-1. Looking back, I would have chosen the same 4-3-2-1 formation you use. My DM (Anchor/DLP, depending on the player) tended to have solid, but anonymous games, and my center midfielders would play a little too close to the attacking midfielders.

Like you, I had to experiment with the roles of the front three to get them just right. I ended up with Ozil as an Enganche, Sanchez as AM-A, and Welbeck at False 9. Sanchez dribbled too much as SS, and was too close to the striker. Since Welbeck wants to beat the offsides trap, he really only played like a False 9 during the buildup phase. Once the ball was in the final third he played like an Advanced Forward. When I played Giroud, I used him as a Poacher.

In the midfield I had Ramsey at AP-A, Oxlade-Chamberlain at CM-S, and Nkoulou at Anchor.

[herne79]

I think I should try to explain more about the change from Shadow Striker to Attacking Midfielder (attack). All I've really done above is say "I made the change and it worked well" without saying why.

This is an image I posted earlier:

Welbeck (AF) is doing a good job of pushing the opposition defence deep, thus creating space in front. The problem is none of my players are attacking that space.

Walcott (the Shadow Striker) is tooling around thinking about running channels - which is what Welbeck is also thinking about doing. Oxlade (#20 - Box to Box Midfielder) is tucked in behind Walcott waiting for Walcott to do something.

My numbers 18 and 19 are both on a defend duty, so aren't too interested in making forward runs.

And therein lies the problem. Walcott at least should be busting a gut to run into that space, but since he is set as Shadow Striker he's looking for channels to run, not deeper space in front of the defence. The AF is already looking for channels, so having two such attack minded players both looking for channels is overkill here.

Changing the SS to AM(a) stopped that attempted channel running and brings him a little deeper where the space actually is.

Concurrently swapping one of the defend duty midfielders to support (the BWM) also encourages better forward runs from deep into space. I don't want that happening too much for fear of leaving us exposed at the back given the CWB(a) on that side of the pitch, so "Hold Position" PI is used - and I can easily switch it back to a defend duty if that wing gets exploited.

Like I said, small changes but they made a big difference - hopefully that explained things better now .

[herne79]

Welbeck vs Giroud

The Advanced Forward is the peak of my tactic. In the triangular formation, everything points to it and is where the bulk of my goals should come from. So I'm a little disappointed with Welbeck's performance there, while conversely Giroud seems to nail it. And I want to know why.

In all fairness, Welbeck isn't performing badly. 10 goals in 12 appearances is a great return, and I could be guilty of getting greedy. Giroud on the other hand has 11 goals in 9 appearances, so even better. The main difference lies in shots on target. Welbeck is more along the lines of "I'll keep taking shots and eventually one will go in", whereas Giroud is more "I'll play more of a team game and take my chances when better ones come along".

There is also something else concerning me - have a look at these stats:

Not only does this demonstrate the Shots on Target ratio (Welbeck at about half, Giroud approaching two thirds), but look at the number of times Welbeck is getting caught offside. Double the number that Giroud is offside and Welbeck has the PPM "Likes to try to Beat the Offside Trap" . Something is wrong there.

Lets see how the two compare:

While they are both strong enough to try to boss opposition central defenders, Welbeck is all about speed whereas Giroud will use a more considered approach. That's ok, both has it's advantages. I am, however, particularly concerned about the mental attributes.

Pretty much all mentals are lower for Welbeck, with Anticipation and Composure especially low, and I think that will contribute to both his lower shots on target ratio and his constant offside problem (along with his pace).

Giroud also has better Vision, and thus much more able to bring teammates into play. His pass completion ratio is 81%, whereas Welbeck is down at 73%. In terms of raw numbers, Giroud has attempted 204 passes (165 completed) compared to Welbeck's 154 (112 completed) - and Giroud has spent less time overall on the pitch.

Like I said, I could just be being greedy as he is scoring, but it doesn't really relate back to my DNA (encourage passing and movement; utilise positioning rather than pace). I'm afraid Danny's days are numbered.

[herne79]

Performance vs Zone 14

In the OP I mention Zone 14, so I need to keep my eye on how we perform regarding this.

I'm now through October and into November. Here is as best a summary of goal assists as I can find (hoping for so much more from all the new prozone stuff coming):

This is good, but I think there is room for improvement.

In all honesty, this isn't completely unexpected. Most assists come from the right wing simply because the CWB(a) has been completely smashing it. This role not only puts in excellent crosses which lead to goals, but also draws other players towards it who in turn cross for assists. This is both good and bad.

Good, because it fits right in with club DNA and also helps our good results. Bad, because it doesn't help focus play through Zone 14.

A double edged sword - I already have a winning tactic, but now I want to change it.

Ideas for change (chip in with other suggestions ):

- Change TQ role to a more static Enganche. May help draw the CWB infield.

- Change the CWB(a) to a role that could reduce crossing (eg., WB support).

- Try out PPMs on the CWB such as Cuts Inside or Penalty Box Player. Probably a non-starter as they can take ages to learn and if they don't work out, ages to unlearn.

- Adjusting PIs (such as Cuts Inside with Ball).

- Adjusting TIs (such as Work Ball into Box).

Something to play around with .

Edit - interesting to see that my own Zone 14 (ie., Zone 5) is well protected. Defence and my midfield screen doing their bit well.

Edit 2 - On second thoughts, I need to remember the impact of corners & freekicks here, both of which count towards Assists.

Perhaps Passing Maps will help shed more light on things. This is from my recent match vs West Ham, clearly showing a focus through the centre and into Zone 14:

[Help333]

Another way to get the AF to keep pushing the defensive line back while contributing to team play at the same time is to switch your mentality to very fluid.

With Welbeck's PPM of beat offside trap, CF/S would work as well if you stay flexible. He'll come back because of the support duty while still making runs because of the PPM. The PPM is a tough one tactically and I find that when it is combined with AF/A it ends in many, many, offsides.

[herne79]

How would switching mentality to Very Fluid keep the AF pushing the def line back? It'll increase player creativity and make the team play in a more compact manner, thus increasing space behind the defensive line whilst constricting space in front wouldn't it? Which is the opposite of what I am after.

Or do I have that wrong?

[Corner]

Even on Very Fluid, an AF will still be lucking to pin back and run in behind the defence as much as possible. If anything, it will encourage better link-up play with the three forwards, which is what you seem to be after?

[donnybrook]

Ozil is an ideal Enganche. If he has room he will gladly dribble forward, but his first instinct is to play forward passes and keep the ball moving. His off the ball movement will make it very difficult to mark him out of the game.

Wingback Support is a good role is you want to keep the ball and reduce the number of crosses. Debuchy likes to take on defenders, so don't think that this role will just lead to endless side to side passing.

I like the TI Work Ball Into Box because it fits into the patient style that my teams play. You get fewer shots, but better chances, often closer to goal. I normally played a lower tempo but would raise the tempo against better teams.

Performance vs Zone 14

Ideas for change (chip in with other suggestions ):

- Change TQ role to a more static Enganche. May help draw the CWB infield.

- Change the CWB(a) to a role that could reduce crossing (eg., WB support).

- Try out PPMs on the CWB such as Cuts Inside or Penalty Box Player. Probably a non-starter as they can take ages to learn and if they don't work out, ages to unlearn.

- Adjusting PIs (such as Cuts Inside with Ball).

- Adjusting TIs (such as Work Ball into Box).

Something to play around with .

Edit - interesting to see that my own Zone 14 (ie., Zone 5) is well protected. Defence and my midfield screen doing their bit well.

[Corner]

Ozil is an ideal Enganche. If he has room he will gladly dribble forward, but his first instinct is to play forward passes and keep the ball moving. His off the ball movement will make it very difficult to mark him out of the game.

Wingback Support is a good role is you want to keep the ball and reduce the number of crosses. Debuchy likes to take on defenders, so don't think that this role will just lead to endless side to side passing.

I like the TI Work Ball Into Box because it fits into the patient style that my teams play. You get fewer shots, but better chances, often closer to goal. I normally played a lower tempo but would raise the tempo against better teams.

I could be wrong, but isn't the Enganche a static role?

[Help333]

How would switching mentality to Very Fluid keep the AF pushing the def line back? It'll increase player creativity and make the team play in a more compact manner, thus increasing space behind the defensive line whilst constricting space in front wouldn't it? Which is the opposite of what I am after.

Or do I have that wrong?

As corner said, you seemed to like the way the AF was pushing the line back and creating space but wish he was less isolated and cooperating with teammates more. That's basically the definition of how an AF on very fluid plays. It would also bring your defensive line up compressing space there and will probably improve your press.

[herne79]

AF isolation isn't an issue. If I've said that somewhere I need to go back and correct it.

What I need from my striker (apart from scoring goals of course ) is to create space for my attacking midfield to use - not behind the defence, in front of it. In my first iteration I was in no mans land when using a DLF/AF along with a Shadow Striker. That didn't work and I needed to commit to using either an AF to be my focal point or my SS.

Once I committed to the AF, the changes required became obvious - switch the SS for an AM(a), and stop using Welbeck as the main striker.

I can see how even with Very Fluid the AF would push the defensive line back, but he'd be coming from a deeper starting point - and a deeper point is bad when I need that space for the attacking midfield. And if there was lack of cooperation, that was down to the personnel (Welbeck) used.

Very Fluid would also over emphasise player creativity. I have an outlet for that (Ozil) in the Zidane role, which I don't want to distract from - it's pretty much the entire purpose of the tactic.

Great discussion points. It keeps making me re-evaluate, rethink and critique the tactic, which can only be good .

[felley]

This thread is a gift that keeps on giving. Really interesting stuff seeing how you've put it all together so far.

I do think most people could've drawn the conclusions of the Welbeck vs. Giroud debate well before you generated some stats! That doesn't detract from your analysis though, which is well laid out and points out the key differences between the players. In this system, raw speed is more important for the players behind the striker as they will be the ones tasked with being direct with your striker relying on his mental game to stay in touch with the defence and get into positions for shots.

[herne79]

I do think most people could've drawn the conclusions of the Welbeck vs. Giroud debate well before you generated some stats!

Totally, myself included .

It's an interesting exercise to go through (in fact all of it has been), and I do believe the more time you spend looking into things in this game, ultimately the more reward you get from it. Hopefully that comes across .

[donnybrook]

Enganche is a static role, but if a player has good off the ball movement he can find more space in crowded areas. Just like in real life, Ozil has a natural ability to find that hole between the center backs and midfielders. He doesn't run past defenders, but he does drift within zone 14 to find room.

I could be wrong, but isn't the Enganche a static role?

[herne79]

End of Year Review

When developing and the employing a tactic, I find it very useful to regularly (at first) review how I believe my team to be performing, both in terms of how I want the tactic to play, and to relate things back to my club DNA.

I've now hit 1st January 2015 which seems like a good time to delve into things.

DNA - How Am I Doing

- Encourage Passing and Movement, primarily playing the ball to feet.

- Have a strong defensive screen in midfield to recycle the ball back into attack.

- Use positional awareness where possible rather than rely on Pace, especially in Defence.

Now obviously I can watch matches to see how I am doing on the pitch, but there are also very useful stat screens I can use to evidence and backup what I see.

This is my Passing and Movement DNA squad screen:

Customised squad screens I find very useful.

We can see most of the squad are above 80% pass completion (remember, I am not using any Possession related Team Instructions). This can only mean the players themselves are well placed to make and receive passes. The players below 80% are pretty much the ones I'd expect to be, and they aren't exactly low numbers anyway. My 2 main central defenders are on 78% (for example), and I'm not using "Play out of Defence" or any PIs. Overall, happy with how this DNA is working out.

Onto the midfield screen.

That is actually the same squad screen as before, just re-sorted by average tackles made each game.

Way back in my OP, this is what I wrote about my midfield "General":

"Central Centre Midfield - Deep Lying Playmaker (defend). This is my Deschamps, my on pitch General. I don't want a fairly passive midfielder, who is just going to spray passes around, in the mold of a Carrick or Alonso. I want someone with a good workrate, not afraid to stick in a challenge, screen my defenders and will also be good on the ball. A DLP (defend) plus a fairly aggressive player seems like a logical choice to me - and I have that in Wilshere, with Arteta as backup".

Nobody is putting in more tackles per game than Wilshere and Arteta. Kranevitter and Flamini (BWM) are also right up there. With passing rates at 90%+, ball recycling also looks good. Ramsey and Oxlade (BBM) are doing ok as well. Another DNA performance tick.

Onto the final DNA "Use positional awareness where possible rather than rely on Pace, especially in Defence".

Harder to demonstrate this in stat screens, but easier to look at 2 of my first team regulars - Mertesacker and Giroud, neither of which can exactly be accused of being Pacey.

For Mertesacker, I can add in Interceptions to the previous stat screen:

Leading the way .

And Giroud? I'll let the World Team of the Year announcement deal with that:

Alexis Sanchez also made it, and was runner up to C.Ronaldo in both the Ballon d'Or and World Golden Ball.

I also want to review how we are doing with Zone 14, which I'll do in a separate post.

[herne79]

Zone 14 Review

Following on from the DNA review above, it's important for me to keep referring back to my Zone 14 intent to make sure I'm not making too many compromises by just making any old winning tactic. It needs to be a winning tactic via Zone 14.

I'll look at some good points first - a series of screen shots from my recent 2-1 win against Man Utd. Both my goals were scored by Sanchez, both with assists from Zone 14. (They also demonstrate my DNA, but that's a dfferent matter).

First Goal

1. Ramsey passes to Sanchez who is pulling away from his marker into space on the edge of the box.

2. Sanchez lays the ball off to Kranevitter and then runs into the space between Rojo and Shaw.

3. Sanchez gets the ball back from Kranevitter and scores.

Also interesting to see how Giroud had been keeping the Man Utd central defenders occupied to help create the space for Sanchez.

Second Goal

1. With Sanchez marked, Ozil plays a nice longer pass to Ramsey.

2. With Giroud again keeping defenders occupied, space is opening up which Sanchez is about to run into.

3. Sanchez gets the ball from Ramsey in space and scores.

All well and good, but just one match.

In terms of trying to critique the overall effectiveness, it becomes more difficult as I can't find much in the way of more generalised reports.

I can look at how many passes and the passing rates of the players who are tactically positioned in Zone 14 (ie., my 2 x AMCs), but without looking at individual matches I can't see where their passes are being made. For example (also from the Man Utd game):

If you can look past all the throw-ins, which are annoyingly included in with the Passes, a vaguely triangular passing shape emerges, with an emphasis in Zone 14. Most matches I look at are of a similar style.

The only other visual representation I can find is this regarding assists:

Unfortunately I can't strip out corners, which both flanks include. Now, I know the player in my squad with the most assists so far is my main CWB(a), Chambers, with 12. The next 3 highest are Ozil (11), Sanchez (8) and Ramsey (7).

Probably all of Chambers' assists are coming from the right flank, but quite what the proportion is for Ozil, Sanchez and Ramsey are within Zone 14 I can't say, without going back and watching every single goal. I can assume it is a high proportion, but I can't back it up. Perhaps I should start keeping a running tally. FM16 Prozone, I am looking at you...

Anyway, overall I am pleased with performance and how play through Zone 14 is happening. The CWB(a) continues to deflect attention from Zone 14, but so long as most play happens through the centre (which it does), I'm not going to get overly concerned.

[felley]

I don't think you should get hung up too much on your passing into Zone 14, making sure you have roles that will exploit that space in front of the defence is your priority and you're doing a great job. It seems the AM(A)-T(A) is perfect for this and there's no denying that you have two world class players to perform the task. As you point out so often, the AF(A) is key as he pushes the defence back and creates the vital gaps in Zone 14 that can be exploited so well.

Chambers' contribution isn't a worry either. Any good attacking team needs width even if it's only for creating space centrally. He's not deflecting attention from Zone 14, more highlighting the benefit of overloading this area whilst stretching the field wider and pushing back the defensive line.

I can't say it enough times, so once again, great thread.

[mpreston85]

Very interesting.

I wouldn't measure your use of Zone 14 purely on assists. One reason is there could be lots of key passes coming from that area that sets up the assists from other zones due to the attention it draws.

One thing i've been thinking about is how swapping the AM roles around (so AM on the right, TQ on the left) would affect the interplay?

[herne79]

One thing i've been thinking about is how swapping the AM roles around (so AM on the right, TQ on the left) would affect the interplay?

Good question, something I shall try out.

My reasoning (good or bad !) for setting up initially in this manner was to try to give the TQ as much room to roam around in as possible. Originally the BWM on that side had a defend duty. That (usually) kept the BWM deep thus giving more room for the TQ to manouver in. Since I swapped it to a support duty, at the same time as changing the SS to AM(a), it just wasn't something that occured to me to look at. I'll have a play around.

[mpreston85]

I think I would of done the same as you, or I would of made it asynchronous with the ST offset (STCR) and the TQ in AMC with the AM/SS AMCL. I think I too often go for "balance" so I miss out on creating overloads with runners from 3 depths (ST, AM, RB) so its something i'm thinking about more.

[herne79]

I haven't shared much (if anything) about our defensive play - and especially the transition from when our attack breaks down and reforming our defensive shape.

I went back to one of our matches vs Man City and came across this episode of play. There are several screen shots here (I must learn how to upload to YouTube lol), so hopefully you can follow the action. Each screenshot is taken at the moment a pass is made or run attempted.

1. Sanchez has the ball on edge of the Man City area, and decides to pass it to Chambers which Clichy easily intercepts.

2. Clichy decides to run with the ball into the space ahead, which Ozil quickly closes down. This makes me wonder if Man City are using the Play out of Defence TI.

3. Clichy is forced to turn and pass it back to Mangala. Our defensive shape is already looking good.

4. Instead of the short ball to Milner, Mangala launches a long ball forwards into the box marked, which Silva latches onto. If that pass was by design, Mangala is the new Pirlo. By design or not, that pass puts us under a bit of pressure.

5. Silva decides to run with the ball towards the left flank, while Bony (here marked by Chambers) cuts inside.

6. Arteta and Kranevitter have both tracked back following Mangala's midfield-avoiding pass, to help cope with Silva and Bony. Chambers has retreated into line with the rest of the defence, leaving our midfield screen to pick up attackers. Silva makes a short pass to Bony.

7. Arteta closes down Bony, while Kranevitter and Chambers track the still advancing Silva, who is now looking for channel between DCR and DR. Bony is forced to pass back to Milner. Wilshere and Sanchez are keeping an eye on the advancing Toure and Jovetic.

8. Milner passes out wide to Clichy.

9. Chambers closes down Clichy and the ball goes out for a corner.

At the time, this made me start thinking that Man City were playing very cautiously. The ball (I think accidentally) went forwards very quickly, thanks to Managala, and they didn't commit men forward too quickly - players such as Toure and Jovetic were well behind the play until late on, by which time the ball was out wide and heading for a corner.

[herne79]

Adapting

Our first match against Liverpool earlier in the season ended as a 4-3 win for us. Pretty exciting game which could have gone either way - we nicked a goal in the dying seconds to take the points.

Now into our second league match against them, I want to keep things tighter at the back - the pace and attacking threat of Sturridge, Coutinho and Sterling could cause havoc (again) with my slow central defenders. This is how they lined up:

Pleasantly surprised to find Coutinho on the bench, but that narrow diamond midfield and pace at the top is going to be dangerous.

I make 2 small changes to my base tactic - I take off the "Push Higher Up" TI, and get Wilshere (my DLP) to man mark Sterling. My theory being that pushing higher up will expose me too much to the pace of Sturridge and Sterling, and although Sterling will beat Wilshere for pace, Sterling won't like Wilshere's aggression.

By half time, we are leading 1-0. I wouldn't say we are dominating, but we certainly deserve the lead and the Sturridge / Sterling combination have been successfully shut down, with just 2 long range shots all half.

At half time, I check Liverpool's line up (I always do this), and sure enough they have made changes:

I need to adapt.

I stop Wilshere's man marking instruction, and change my BWM(s) to BWM(d). Trying to man mark now will leave Wilshere in no-mans land, and I need my midfield screen to be a little more defensive due to the 2 AMCs Liverpool are now using. I also put back in the TI "Push Higher Up", which is still a risk due to their pace in attack, but I need to restrict space for their AMCs to operate in.

I also add in the TI "More Direct Passing". They have opened up some nice space in front of their defence which my attacking triangle should be able to exploit if I can get the ball to them - I also take off Giroud and bring on Walcott to use his pace.

Straight away I can see this working on pitch, and we grab a second goal. Almost straight from the kick off, they score - as feared, a nice through ball from Coutinho behind my back line for Sturridge to run on to.

I resist the temptation to drop my def line deeper, and we see out the 2-1 win with a couple of substitutions for tiring legs.

[herne79]

End of Season Overview

I'll keep this fairly brief as in terms of the tactic itself, and how it plays out, there isn't an awful lot to add to everything previously posted.

These are the full season results:

Just the one match lost all season, which was the 2nd leg of the CL semi final away at Barcelona - we lost on penalties .

All great, although I don't want to dwell too much on the success, as that can become an exercise in self-congratulation .

Now it can be argued that a team such as Arsenal should be able to perform to that standard anyway, and to an extent I'd agree - although any team can be screwed with a bad tactic.

But that misses the whole point of this thread, which was to take a specific philosophy and shape the team around it, making regular reviews and adjustments as required to ensure that philosophy is being followed.

That's been far more interesting for me, and it's actually been one of my most interesting saves of FM15. I'll be carrying on the save (I want that CL trophy), and hopefully people have found the process useful.