bababooey Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 So I'm wondering how you guys would deal with this monstrosity of a tactic from the AI's Brendan Rodgers... Points of Emphasis: There are no holding players in this tactic What the hell is going on with those heatmaps? How is this even possible? There's a flat 4 across the midfield and the 2 widest of the flat 4 end up literally stacked on top of each other.... The central midfield area should, in theory, be wide open consider there's a BWM-S and BBM in those spots The right flank is incredibly uncovered due to the W-A in the right midfield position, without any help at all The left flank looks just as weak, although the winger is on a support duty. Still seems absolutely nutty to me The manager will probably start the game on "control" and then switch to "attacking" at some point. Given that, the block of players in the middle will likely suffocate opponents who cannot handle the pressure. So, how on earth are you supposed to play against a set up like this? It breaks literally every "rule" of creating tactics in FM. No wonder Liverpool are consistently challenging for a title despite having a very (and I mean VERY) average squad. My Saints are leading the premier league after 30 something games (second season) and I've struggled against Liverpool recently. I don't want to lose to them anymore. What type of tactical principles would make sense against this formation? My initial thought would be quick balls in behind their midfield, but that's not so easy to do because they are *incredibly* aggressive and have like 7 outfield players camped in your half. Then the other question would be.. If the other team has such a wild set up, if mine is even somewhat "balanced" and well-covered, then maybe big changes aren't even needed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I would try to stretch the play. Play Wider/Exploit the Flanks. You can easily get one of those widemen out of their position as you said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 Well moral of the story here is: don't underestimate the power of not changing anything. Went out with the same tactics I've used all season and won 4-2. Was up 3-0 at one point, then 4-1. Tried to go too defensive towards the end and conceded a lot of chances. But a win is a win. If those types of changes had been made in the beginning I probably would have lost! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 [*]What the hell is going on with those heatmaps? How is this even possible? There's a flat 4 across the midfield and the 2 widest of the flat 4 end up literally stacked on top of each other.... AI Rodgers must have pushed the "Allow Wide Players to Swap" button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 AI Rodgers must have pushed the "Allow Wide Players to Swap" button. Yep that's gotta be it. Not sure why I didn't think of it in the moment of posting though! I'm a bit delirious having won the title with SOU in my 2nd season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rninejr Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 U're still bette than me My second season with southampton wasn't good. Not even qualified for europe n destroyed twice by rodgers. I finally defeated him at the 3rd season, by using the exact opposite of what I did when meet his side at the first 2 seasons: play wide, high, and attacking at anfield. N using counter mentality+quick tempo at my home. Both with 4-1-2-2-1 DM wide formation (I even tried 5-4-1 before but ended up defeated badly) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Can we ditch the use of the word "raped" please? Irrespective of the fact that this is a family forum, it is a disgusting word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Can we ditch the use of the word "raped" please? Irrespective of the fact that this is a family forum, it is a disgusting word. Wholeheartedly agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 bababooey, I feel your pain. I do ok against Liverpool at home but certainly not away. Like you I look at their formation and think I can totally dominate the CM area but never do. Just like the Tottenham 4231 it looks so weak in the CM area but Spurs also are extremely over powered. I have come to the conclusion though that it's not the tactics that are over powered in FM15 but certain individuals are. The likes of Balotelli, Mata, Cuarado and half the Tottenham squad just play like gods at home and are often the difference!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rninejr Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Can we ditch the use of the word "raped" please? Irrespective of the fact that this is a family forum, it is a disgusting word. Done sir. Sorry if I have no manner bababooey, I feel your pain. I do ok against Liverpool at home but certainly not away. Like you I look at their formation and think I can totally dominate the CM area but never do. Just like the Tottenham 4231 it looks so weak in the CM area but Spurs also are extremely over powered. I have come to the conclusion though that it's not the tactics that are over powered in FM15 but certain individuals are. The likes of Balotelli, Mata, Cuarado and half the Tottenham squad just play like gods at home and are often the difference!! It is a common thing that away games are usually harder. Sometime this can lead us to adapt. If we're playing at home, oppositions usually play less aggresive or slightly deeper. This can make defense block to closing down opposition player too far ahead or too early, n create pockets in our defense (if u're playing with high pressing) Mastering at least 2 mentalities are a must for me, the less aggressive one n the more aggressive one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick4 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I found BR's Liverpool a nightmare to deal with in a few different saves. My gut instinct is to not want to change too much of what I'm doing in order to combat them, lest I end up with a formation which I'll only use twice a season. Rather than focusing too much on their quirky formation, I first look to disrupt their playing style by closing down much more. I also look to play narrower. Everything they do is down the middle, so I feel like I have to meet them there. I try not to change much else about my system, although I sometimes drop my 'shorter passing' instruction with the aim of playing a little more direct to exploit any gap left by their very offensive formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted October 10, 2015 Author Share Posted October 10, 2015 bababooey, I feel your pain. I do ok against Liverpool at home but certainly not away. Like you I look at their formation and think I can totally dominate the CM area but never do. Just like the Tottenham 4231 it looks so weak in the CM area but Spurs also are extremely over powered. I have come to the conclusion though that it's not the tactics that are over powered in FM15 but certain individuals are. The likes of Balotelli, Mata, Cuarado and half the Tottenham squad just play like gods at home and are often the difference!! What you think will happen and what happens are often two different things. On paper they look very open in the middle, but the weakness is actually down the flanks. They're congesting the middle in reality, and it's almost impossible to play through them there because they'll have (At times) 6 guys in the same area around the midway line. It's all about watching the match, not predicting what will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjericho Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 There will be lots of space on the flanks and in front of the defense. A tactic with a AM and two wide players each side (FB/WM) would be my way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca72 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 In one of my saves Liverpool won the league twice on the trot playing almost exclusively this formation. EDIT: Sorry first post was nonsense, over 100 goals each season, not points. 90 & 87 points totals, with 114 & 116 goals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Well tried it in the next game against Man United at home and got beat 3-1 where all their goals were direct balls over the top for Falcao to run on to and that was playing both control and counter but no TI's. Would be interesting to see what TIs and PI's the Liverpool tactic use as when they play it there doesn't seem to be a lot of room "behind" their defence like there was mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Well tried it in the next game against Man United at home and got beat 3-1 where all their goals were direct balls over the top for Falcao to run on to and that was playing both control and counter but no TI's. Would be interesting to see what TIs and PI's the Liverpool tactic use as when they play it there doesn't seem to be a lot of room "behind" their defence like there was mine. There is really no use in using AI tactics. You have a brain, use it to your advantage! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sussex Hammer Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 There is really no use in using AI tactics. You have a brain, use it to your advantage! In the original post you asked how people counter the tactic in question. I have no clue whatsoever as it is a tactic that batters me especially at Anfield. Therefore as you had included the formation and roles of the tactic I was intrigued as how it would play out if I used it and how the AI would counter it and that above is how the AI did counter it, long direct balls over the top to a fast striker is how all goals have been conceded whilst I was using it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Post 50 here shows everything I did to beat them if it helps http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/435387-Zone-14-and-the-Christmas-Tree?p=10502427#post10502427 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneronaldo Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 4-3-3, isolate their central defenders 1v1 (man marking using my front 3), then push the my own fullbacks forward to overload them on the flanks. The central midfield area will be full of defensive players, winning the ball back then smacking it out wide to counter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cynathor Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 It's pretty easy for me and other AI to beat Liverpool in my saves with Newcastle/Man Utd. I play slow tempo 4-4-1-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 (The V looking thing) and if you have pace on the wings you can end up forcing their centrebacks to push out wide and then its a simple matter of having 3 players (ST, AM or advanced CM and opposite winger) against their 2 slow centre backs. If you're finding yourself short on quality, hit any combination of Overlap, Exploit Flanks, Clear Ball to Flanks. You can also reset your fullbacks to CWB-S, possibly asking them to cut inside with the ball. Also you can deploy your two in BWM-S so they win the ball high up the pitch Another trick I did with Crystal Palace was deploy Chamakh as a False 9 in a 4-1-4-1 with Bolasie and Zaha as Winger-A. Teams like Man City who deploy a 4-2-3-1 narrow also tend to pummel Liverpool easily as they essentially are always 4v3 in attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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