Match Engine based on English football?

[majed504]

I have been playing FM since FM 07, and it is one of my favourite games of all time. I just want to wonder, with all the developments in football tactics especially over the last 8 years, why does the Match Engine seem like it has not adapted to modern football? The way players move on the pitch, the roles that need to be updated, and more. I can't help but feel that the Match Engine feels like Watford playing football, the only difference is the quality of the players, which seems to have a bigger weight than the tactics.

Discussion welcome!

[Bobby_Zamora]

Because it is already hard to code something close to one school of play, imagine covering several schools.

[Dagenham_Dave]

That's right, because you often see ramdeuters and shadow strikers at Vicarage Road....

[Nocuous]

FM always has and likely always will interpret things from an English-centric point of view. It would be impossible for them not to really given SI are an English company with mostly English employees, and a mostly English customer base too. This isn't a knock on SI by the way, it's obvious a lot of work goes into research, translation and making the game globally accessible, but the game still maintains an English charm, from things like the player interactions, elements like being a tracksuit manager, the specific shouts you can make from the side-lines. I just has a very traditional English feel, and that's a plus in my books as English football is what I grew up with and what I know. I don't think you could show the game to a Spaniard for instance and convince them it was made by Spanish people.

[themadsheep2001]

The short answer is no, its not solely based on English football, or even done from an English centric view at all. Being English does not stop you in any way from having a wide view of various footballing styles.

[majed504]

The short answer is no, its not solely based on English football, or even done from an English centric view at all. Being English does not stop you in any way from having a wide view of various footballing styles.

Why cant I see this wide view of various styles being translated into the ME? I am pretty sure I am not the only one with such a specific complaint regarding the ME.

The latest FM, is a slight improvement in this department. However, I do not think it is enough given the various changes in the landscape of football since 2008. Almost 8 years, and there has been barely any changes. New player roles? They are welcome, but the way they behave on the pitch is not resembling of the roles. The player instructions can be given to various roles to make them behave similarly to other roles that have those preset instructions. If so, why have the role with a specific Footballing name, and why not call it 'Generic Role #1' for example?

Players and their individual ability come into play, but at times you see the weirdest things in the ME. A short pass is available, but the player ends up hoofing it, even with short passing instructions. Why?

Why would things like this continue to happen since 2008, while a lot of the improvements made this year were mostly 'make up' material, just adding a facelift to the game.

[speedas]

I didn't play the modern FM much so I can say a lot of things. But I spent my ten last years on FM 2007 and this game is tactically outdated with an engine highly focused on 4-4-2.

That's why I'm currently testing FM 2015 and FM 2016 demo to see the evolution and if there is an opportunity to have better parties than FM 2007. I would be surprised if really the modern match engine does not offer improvements.

[kandersson]

the whole game is and has always been very british, couldn't be any different and it's not a knock on SI. Probably this applies to some extent to ME as well though many efforts and many step forwards have been made with every edition of FM. New roles like the regista, enganche, ramdeuter are most evident proof, as well as possession-based styles of football that have become more and more popular in FM as well as irl.

Sure, the starting point of view (not just regarding tactics) still feels quite british and probably always will, and I suspect non-british players might notice this a bit more. But its' okay in the end!

[Welshace]

The roles work fine for me?, for the more specialised roles like shadow striker and ramdeuters etc, you will need to set them correctly with the rest of the team also, just like you do in real life when using these roles.

You can't just set a player to be a shadow striker and expect him to play like one without him having the rest of the team accomodate such a role.

English style or european style doesn't come into it for the match engine really, the roles are there to set the team up however you like.

[Welshace]

Why cant I see this wide view of various styles being translated into the ME? I am pretty sure I am not the only one with such a specific complaint regarding the ME.

The latest FM, is a slight improvement in this department. However, I do not think it is enough given the various changes in the landscape of football since 2008. Almost 8 years, and there has been barely any changes. New player roles? They are welcome, but the way they behave on the pitch is not resembling of the roles. The player instructions can be given to various roles to make them behave similarly to other roles that have those preset instructions. If so, why have the role with a specific Footballing name, and why not call it 'Generic Role #1' for example?

Players and their individual ability come into play, but at times you see the weirdest things in the ME. A short pass is available, but the player ends up hoofing it, even with short passing instructions. Why?

Why would things like this continue to happen since 2008, while a lot of the improvements made this year were mostly 'make up' material, just adding a facelift to the game.

Be more specific, what role or style are you looking to play and can't manage?

[kandersson]

For me, it's some traits of Italian football that often feel 'lost in translation'. Examples:

- Defensive line. In FM seems to me that higher D-line = more attacking strategy, deeper D -line = more defensive/counter. Most italian clubs, even the smallest, play a very high D-line irl even when they want to defend or counter. Ultra-high d-line, high pressing and offside trap are a must for virtually every serie A team, even very defensive teams. Small clubs like Empoli and Chievo are famous for that. What I'd like to see is the ability to play a very high d-line inside a defensive/counter strategy. Also the ability to play a high d-line that comes very deep when we are in possession.

- The attacking midfielder. Now I don't necessarily agree with SI interpretation of the 'trequartista' role, but my issue is more with the whole AMC position. Here I think there's a bit of English bias about the No.10 position. Even with all attributes, PPM's and role (AP, trequartista) I simply don't see AMC's performing the typical, highly regarded (in Italy, not in England...) No.10 postion. In particular, AMC struggles to attempt/complete dribbles in the offensive half, instead making more damages with passing and forward runs without the ball (which I suspect is a more British interpretation of the role). The ability to run with the ball through the centre and beat defenders and pressing in the offensive half is actually a very coveted skill for an attacking midfielder. Players like Kakà, Pastore and more recently Kovacic, Vasquez and Saponara have found great success in Serie A exactly thanks to this skill. These players attempt and complete an outrageous (for FM standard) number of dribbles from AMC position, and this seems traditionally very hard to re-create in FM, where wide attackers seem to be the only consistent dribblers (of course wingers and inside forwards are often best dribblers IRL as well).

[s1111]

For me, it's some traits of Italian football that often feel 'lost in translation'. Examples:

- Defensive line. In FM seems to me that higher D-line = more attacking strategy, deeper D -line = more defensive/counter. Most italian clubs, even the smallest, play a very high D-line irl even when they want to defend or counter. Ultra-high d-line, high pressing and offside trap are a must for virtually every serie A team, even very defensive teams. Small clubs like Empoli and Chievo are famous for that. What I'd like to see is the ability to play a very high d-line inside a defensive/counter strategy. Also the ability to play a high d-line that comes very deep when we are in possession.

- The attacking midfielder. Now I don't necessarily agree with SI interpretation of the 'trequartista' role, but my issue is more with the whole AMC position. Here I think there's a bit of English bias about the No.10 position. Even with all attributes, PPM's and role (AP, trequartista) I simply don't see AMC's performing the typical, highly regarded (in Italy, not in England...) No.10 postion. In particular, AMC struggles to attempt/complete dribbles in the offensive half, instead making more damages with passing and forward runs without the ball (which I suspect is a more British interpretation of the role). The ability to run with the ball through the centre and beat defenders and pressing in the offensive half is actually a very coveted skill for an attacking midfielder. Players like Kakà, Pastore and more recently Kovacic, Vasquez and Saponara have found great success in Serie A exactly thanks to this skill. These players attempt and complete an outrageous (for FM standard) number of dribbles from AMC position, and this seems traditionally very hard to re-create in FM, where wide attackers seem to be the only consistent dribblers (of course wingers and inside forwards are often best dribblers IRL as well).

Most Italian clubs do not play with that high a defensive line and that much pressing in real life, I watch enough of it and the defensive aggression across the league is nothing compared to say Germany. And even if they are, it is by anyone's definition not a defensive strategy. And you can set a high defensive line within a Counter mentality anyway.

And it is perfectly possibly to have an AMC dribbling a lot. My AMC is averaging nearly 6 dribbles a game with 16 dribbling and the Runs With Ball Often PPM. The Trequartista, RPM and AP-A have run with ball often hard coded into their instructions, so it is not like the game doesn't accommodate this. All those players you listed have the attributes and PPMs to do it. And clearly wide players are going to have more success with dribbling as the there tends to be far more space to run with the ball out wide than in the centre of midfield.

[hannahrr]

I don't think it's English in terms of tactics, but I do think England is overpowered in the game. They haven't won the world cup recently, but managed it twice back to back in my longest save. The attacking by opposing teams often is really high paced, an unusual thing for the continental game. That would be my only comment on how foreign leagues are portrayed.

[kandersson]

Most Italian clubs do not play with that high a defensive line and that much pressing in real life, I watch enough of it and the defensive aggression across the league is nothing compared to say Germany. And even if they are, it is by anyone's definition not a defensive strategy. And you can set a high defensive line within a Counter mentality anyway.

And it is perfectly possibly to have an AMC dribbling a lot. My AMC is averaging nearly 6 dribbles a game with 16 dribbling and the Runs With Ball Often PPM. The Trequartista, RPM and AP-A have run with ball often hard coded into their instructions, so it is not like the game doesn't accommodate this. All those players you listed have the attributes and PPMs to do it. And clearly wide players are going to have more success with dribbling as the there tends to be far more space to run with the ball out wide than in the centre of midfield.

Virtually every italian team starts the first wave of pressing with an ultra-high defensive line. You can see the defensive line of any team at the midfield line at any opposition's goal kick. Then if first pressing fails the line goes deeper obviously. In FM I can set a highER d-line with counter/defensive mentality, which doesn't mean is 'high'.

AMC and dribbles. Ok then you're better than me, and much better than AI. Take a look at Kakà in MLS (I don't manage his team). http://imgur.com/mj0beyu

In all my saves my AP's manage a couple of dribbles per game when it goes very well, though they can't really impact the game with their dribbling. AMC's managed by AI (including Vasquez, who irl is leader of serie A in dribbles per game) do much worse though, often under the 1 dribbling per game mark. Top 100 dribbles per game might belong to wingers or fullbacks in my save... And it's not just a matter of stats actually, the eye test clearly tells me that key dribbles almost always come from wide positions, speaking of frequency and quality. Of course there's more space to run wide, that's why the few players who CAN dribble consistently through the centre should really have the chance to shine. Clearly you are able to do that with your 6 dribbles per game from AMC, I can't! the AI looks worse than me in this though...