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Why is there a limit of 8 loan players allowed per season

BarnsleyFan

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BarnsleyFan

BarnsleyFan

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This isn't reflective of IRL football at all so why is the feature? in the game

my club for one reason or another irl have had 8 loans already, in game this would mean they aren't allowed to have any more but of course they make some more loans once january comes or even sooner.

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santy001

santy001

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Wasn't the rule changed after Watford effectively had half of Italy on loan a couple of seasons ago?

Although in the 2007/08 season Stoke did enormously exploit the loan market to help get promotion to the premier league.

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DazRTaylor

DazRTaylor

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it's not short term loans. It includes season long loans.

You can have lots of loans irl.

As far as I understand it, the standard loans are limited, whereas the youth loans are not. So Under 21 players do not count towards the quota.

My club, Yeovil, used to have over twelve loans taken throughout the season. Most of these were youth loans.

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spankie

spankie

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As far as I understand it, the standard loans are limited, whereas the youth loans are not. So Under 21 players do not count towards the quota.

My club, Yeovil, used to have over twelve loans taken throughout the season. Most of these were youth loans.

That's right and if the OP's club is Barnsley then two of their current loanee's are 20, so could be on youth loan deals.

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BarnsleyFan

BarnsleyFan

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They changed the rules because watford had more than 5 loan players in the squad of 18. They exploited the rules because they brought in loans from outside of the uk like Italy and spain meaning they could have 11 loans I think but it was defo more than the 5.

You can have 20 loans over a season if you want but only 5 in your match day squad.

Another team, look at Rotherham 2014/2015 season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Rotherham_United_F.C._season

They had high teens, unless I i'm that tired i can't see properly they had 19 loans IN of different kinds.

In FM if you make a short term loan it counts, if you make a long term loan it count to your 8.

Sorry I really like playing FM, pre ordered yet again off stream which costed 35? pound but this is BS

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Welshace

Welshace

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They changed the rules because watford had more than 5 loan players in the squad of 18. They exploited the rules because they brought in loans from outside of the uk like Italy and spain meaning they could have 11 loans I think but it was defo more than the 5.

You can have 20 loans over a season if you want but only 5 in your match day squad.

Another team, look at Rotherham 2014/2015 season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Rotherham_United_F.C._season

They had high teens, unless I i'm that tired i can't see properly they had 19 loans IN of different kinds.

In FM if you make a short term loan it counts, if you make a long term loan it count to your 8.

Sorry I really like playing FM, pre ordered yet again off stream which costed 35? pound but this is BS

Have you posted this as a bug if you genuinely think it is? Otherwise, the likelyhood of it being reported in low... and calling it BS here won't solve a thing.

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HUNT3R

HUNT3R

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I honestly think it's something that Football Manager have put into the game for some reason so it isn't a bug.

It would have been put in, because it's the rule in real life. If you have proof that it isn't (anymore) then please report it and it will be removed.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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I'm not sure you are correct BarnsleyFan, but I'm also having problems working out exactly what the correct rules are, (and I'm looking at them).

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If you look at 6.6.3 it says...

Clubs may have up to a maximum of four (4) Long Term Loan Transfers of any age during aPlaying Season.

If you look at 6.6.3 it says...

A Club can have up to a maximum of twelve (12) Short TermLoans during a Playing Season. The minimum period of a Short Term Loan transfer mustbe twenty-eight (28) days with a maximum of ninety-three (93) days in any one PlayingSeason.

Assuming that's up to date, (I can't find a newer version), the you can find it here. ]

So a google search for "FA rules for loan players" and the pdf file is the top result.

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Cougar2010

Cougar2010

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It's nothing to do with the age of the loans in fm. Most of my players are the under the age of 23.

I simply couldn't do what barnsley irl did last season or Rothham say.

I don't know what Barnsley or Rotherham did last season and tbh you also don't know accurately as you don't know how they registered the loans with the FA.

From the rules listed above by Jimbo you are allowed four long term loans in a season in the league and 12 short term loans (1-3 months).

Aside from that there seems to be "youth loans" for players under 20yos, do these also count as normal loans? or are they separate to the short & long term standard loans?

I can't say I noticed the youth loans in FM15 which means the rule would need to be reported & clarified before SI consider adding it to FM.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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BarnsleyFan.

If you are serious about this then you need to prove what sort of loan they were. In order to do that you need the following info.

1. Player name.

2. Club transferred from.

3. Age of player on 1st July 2014.

4. Exact length of loan period, (in days).

If you can give us that info for both Barnsley and Rotherham last season, then we can see if they are adhering to the above rules.

If you can't give us that info, (because you don't know it), then there is no way you can know which rules if any are being broken.

Just because I'm interested, let's see if I can work some of it out myself, (knowing nothing at all about Barnsley.

1. Devante Cole from City was 19 back then so that's #1 Youth loan, (and according to the FA rules that I posted above, Youth loans are "unlimited".

2. Ryan Williams of Fulham was 20 on 1st July 2014, so that's #2 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

3. Alex Kiwomya from Chelsea is still only 19 now, so that's #3 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

4. George Waring from Stoke is still only 20 now, so that's #4 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

5. Ben Pearson from Man Utd is still only 20 now, so that's #5 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

6. John O'Sullivan from Blackburn was 20 on 1st July 2014, so that's #6 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

7. Declan John of Cardiff is still only 20 now, so that's #7 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

8. Joe Wildsmith of Sheff Wed is still only 19 now, so that's #8 Youth loan, (unlimited remember).

Now what do we have left?

23yo Joe Dudgeon of Hull.

30yo Peter Ramage of Palace.

23yo Marcello Trotta of Fulham.

32yo Jabo Ibhere of Colchester.

23yo Cameron Stewart of Ipswich.

Dudgeon was on loaned from 31st Jul to 5th Jan making it #1 long-term loan, (more than 93 days), (maximum of 4 per season).

Ramage was loaned from 3rd Oct to 3rd May making it #2 long-term loan, (more than 93 days), (maximum of 4 per season).

Trotta was loaned from 1st Nov to 5th Jan, #1 short term loan, (less than 93 days), (maximum of 12 per season).

Ibhere was loaned from 6th Mar to 3rd May, #2 short term loan, (less than 93 days)), (maximum of 12 per season).

Steward was loaned from 21st Mar to 30th Jun, #3 long term loan, (more than 93 days), (maximum of 4 per season).

So that seems fine, (mainly because they were loaning lots of players 20 or under 20 on 1st July before the season started.

Are you trying to loan players who are 20+?

It's nothing to do with the age of the loans in fm. Most of my players are the under the age of 23.

It must do, (and it has worked correctly in the past).

I am guessing that you are trying to loan players between 20-23 and thinking these should be treated in the same way as loaning players who are <20. It just doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

Williams and O'Sullivan, who were loaned on unlimited Youth loans last season for example, are now too old so if you loaned them again, they would use up a 20+ aged quota which they didn't do the previous year, which would mean that one of them wouldn't be allowed, (because your quota was already 3 long term loans out of a max of 4)..

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Cougar2010

Cougar2010

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Looking at the wiki link you posted earlier for Rotherham I dug a bit deeper and Rotherham's website has lots of info.

They loaned 19 players with no more than two from any one club (which is part of the rules).

John Swift - Long term loan which was cancelled by Rotherham in Nov

Paul Taylor - Long term loan

Richard Smallwood - Emergency loan turned into a permanent transfer

Anthony Wordsworth - Long term loan

Luciano Becchio - Long term loan

Emmanuel Ledesma - Emergency loan

Reece James - Emergency loan

Tom Lawrence - Youth loan

Scott Wootton - Emergency loan

Jack Barmby - ? Short term?

Danny Ward - ? Short term?

Adam Hammill - ? Short term?

Conor Sammon - ? Short term?

Zeki Fryers - ? Short term?

Jack Hunt - Emergency loan

Daniel Lafferty - Emergency loan

Farrend Rawson - Youth loan

Lawrie Wilson - Emergency loan

Damian Martinez - Emergency loan

So out of their 19 loans they have:

4 Long term loans

5 Short term loans? Jan-May

2 Youth loan

8 Emergency loans

I don't know how but they are clearly bending the rules somewhat on some of those emergency loans which you can't in FM while I can't remember seeing youth loans in FM either.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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What the hell, lets look at Rotherham too.

Barmby, Rawson and James would all have been classed as Youth loans, (20 or under on whatever the day was).

That leaves.... 16 loans.

See if you can split the rest into short term loans, (less than 93 days, max of 12). and long term loans, (more than 93 days), max of 4.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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They broke the rules because they played a player that wasn't registered in time, nothing to do with him been on loan at the New York Stadium.

No. That's not what happened at all.

They played a player AFTER his Youth loan period expired, turning it into a long-term loan which they were already at quota for.

Rawson joined the Millers on a 28-day youth loan on 7 March meaning his loan spell finished the day before the win over Brighton.

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Cougar2010

Cougar2010

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They broke the rules because they played a player that wasn't registered in time, nothing to do with him been on loan at the New York Stadium.

But they have clearly been making the most of the emergency loan rules.

The bottom line is IRL the loan rules are complicated and its unlikely that FM is ever going to fully include them.

As far as I can see the rules for standard long term & short term loans are correct. Emergency loans are in I believe but have never used them which leaves youth loans & international loans that there are questions marks over.

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Gricehead

Gricehead

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Rotherham fan here(!)

The FA rules on loans posted above are superceded by Football League rules for Football League clubs.

Under FL rules, there is no difference between "Short term" and "Emergency" loans

FL rules are laid out in section 52 here: http://www.football-league.co.uk/global/section6.aspx

There are no maximum quotas for emergency or youth loans, outwith the restrictions on the number in the match day squad and the restrictions on number of players loaned from one club.

I can go into the details later of all our loans last year. And the year before. And the year before that. Mr Evans loves a loanee. However, I don't think it would add much value.

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ArseFly

ArseFly

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Not a bug report or a whine, just a related observation on how loans seem to work ingame:

In FM16, at least my League 2 club Crawley is limited to 8 loans with the additional limit of maximum 5 loanees in match squad based on my first test game. I was suprised to see the limit when I hit it while spamming for season-long loans :D Was totally gonna exploit loans for promotion... Then I tried to cancel few of them to allocate those slots to better players but that failed also, as the quota is filled regardless whether the loan is calcelled.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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Rotherham fan here(!)

The FA rules on loans posted above are superceded by Football League rules for Football League clubs.

Under FL rules, there is no difference between "Short term" and "Emergency" loans

FL rules are laid out in section 52 here: http://www.football-league.co.uk/global/section6.aspx

There are no maximum quotas for emergency or youth loans, outwith the restrictions on the number in the match day squad and the restrictions on number of players loaned from one club.

I can go into the details later of all our loans last year. And the year before. And the year before that. Mr Evans loves a loanee. However, I don't think it would add much value.

Brilliant. :thup:

That clears up how it works in real life. Now we just need to know how it works in-game.

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Malicious Penguin

Malicious Penguin

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From my reading of the above...

Maximum of 4 23 and under long-term loans;

Maximum of 4 24 and over long-term loans;

No recall clause (so this is something that should be removed by SI?);

No international restrictions (Only refers to the English FA)

Or am I totally wrong?!

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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From my reading of the above...

Maximum of 4 23 and under long-term loans;

Maximum of 4 24 and over long-term loans;

No recall clause (so this is something that should be removed by SI?);

No international restrictions (Only refers to the English FA)

Or am I totally wrong?!

And short-term loans?

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wizguy1990

wizguy1990

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Not a bug report or a whine, just a related observation on how loans seem to work ingame:

In FM16, at least my League 2 club Crawley is limited to 8 loans with the additional limit of maximum 5 loanees in match squad based on my first test game. I was suprised to see the limit when I hit it while spamming for season-long loans :D Was totally gonna exploit loans for promotion... Then I tried to cancel few of them to allocate those slots to better players but that failed also, as the quota is filled regardless whether the loan is calcelled.

Just to add another situation in, wether this helps you out with this.

On my current save, Newport county, I have 8 season long loans.

All 21 years old or under.

4 from Swansea (parent club)

1 from Newcastle

1 Villa

1 Leeds

1 Cardiff City

I cannot make any more loan transfers, short or long term, domestically or internationally.

A window appears stating that I am currently at the allowed quota for loans and I cannot make any further.

From the reading of the loan rules myself, my personal point of view would be that this is an error, but an easy one to make. With all the changes to the loan rules in recent years it is difficult to follow

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Malicious Penguin

Malicious Penguin

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Right, so I'm trying a Reading save;

They start off with 6 players on loan: 1 of them is over 23, 3 of them are from abroad.

Signed 1 extra international, 1 extra over 23.

Game wouldn't let me sign another over 23, another international, nor a under 24 on a 1 month loan.

To confirm - you can only have a maximum of 8 loans of *any* type in the Football League.

Whereas my interpretation of the rules is:

Maximum of 4 23 and under long-term loans;

Maximum of 4 24 and over long-term loans;

No recall clause (so this is something that should be removed by SI?);

No international restrictions on number of loans

Maximum of 12 short-term loans (Only from English clubs)

Can only have 5 loan players (all types) in match day squad.

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wizguy1990

wizguy1990

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Right, so I'm trying a Reading save;

They start off with 6 players on loan: 1 of them is over 23, 3 of them are from abroad.

Signed 1 extra international, 1 extra over 23.

Game wouldn't let me sign another over 23, another international, nor a under 24 on a 1 month loan.

To confirm - you can only have a maximum of 8 loans of *any* type in the Football League.

Whereas my interpretation of the rules is:

Maximum of 4 23 and under long-term loans;

Maximum of 4 24 and over long-term loans;

No recall clause (so this is something that should be removed by SI?);

No international restrictions on number of loans

Maximum of 12 short-term loans (Only from English clubs)

Can only have 5 loan players (all types) in match day squad.

I agree with you. That is what I believed the rules to be prior to the beta release.

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  • 2 weeks later...
BarnsleyFan

BarnsleyFan

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Sorry but rotherham loaned a lot more than that last season.

There isn't a limit of loans from what i can see. Barnsley made yet another loan last week Ivan Toney and are looking at MORE loans before the wondow closes. 8 loans so far this season including Townsend that was made permanent in the summer.

They also made 5 loans that would class as u24 (summer transfer window until January) and you can recall players still. Arsenal recalled Daniel Crowley

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Cougar2010

Cougar2010

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Sorry but rotherham loaned a lot more than that last season.

There isn't a limit of loans from what i can see. Barnsley made yet another loan last week Ivan Toney and are looking at MORE loans before the wondow closes. 8 loans so far this season including Townsend that was made permanent in the summer.

They also made 5 loans that would class as u24 (summer transfer window until January) and you can recall players still. Arsenal recalled Daniel Crowley

Did you bother to read the responses at all?

We covered Rotherham's loans and many of them were under the Emergency loan rules.

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Jamman

Jamman

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The way FM is set up relating to loan regulations is bang on the money therefore it shouldn't be reported as a bug as it's not.

No its not.

Miles told me via twitter that loan rules arent 100% accurate in the game, but "mostly" accurate.

One example is 93 day loans. Emergency loans are for a maximum of 93 days in real life and cant be extended, they can in the game though (and theres no 93 days in game either).

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