Help develop my 4-4-2

[steveshaw1983]

After being undecided on what tactic to use for my Liverpool team I have fixed myself on a 4-4-2. Now the problem is I can't quite seem to get the balance right. I will post the screenshot below. Basically what I want to do is create a possession based game as I want to dominate games, particularly against smaller teams. I'd be willing to sacrifice possession against bigger teams if I was creating chances but I definitely want to dominate games that I should. I would like to close down quickly when I don't have the ball to try and get it back asap.

I will post the tactic and the TI's. The only PI's I have on is close down much more for the MR, ML, MC, MC, ST, ST. The defence I have left as I don't want them pulling out of the positions.

Problems encountered so far

Central midfielders playing extremely poor. Now I know it is not because they are poor players, they simply can't be involved in the game enough.

Low scoring games against weaker teams and suffering alot of draws. I have found that I am able to get draws away at the likes of Man City and Chelsea etc with the formation though.

I have just tweaked the positions slightly which may have a positive impact on the tactic, but any feedback will be welcomed.

I know people say look at the match in detail which I have tried but I struggle to spot what others may see as obvious problems. Afterall, I am a goalkeeper

[Blinklys]

Steve,

Your pics dont work by the way.

I'm not sure if it is what you want, but have a look at Justified's thread about Klopp's style of football. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/439297-Heavy-Metal-in-a-Crystal-Palace-Klopp-Recreation

If that doesnt suit your taste I have a suggestion:

4-1-2-3 DM WB Wide. Tinker to you find what it says on the tactic name thingy. Basically, you have 2 DC on defend, 2 wing backs in the wing back/dm strata on support, A dmc as a Half Back (this is important - Emre Can and Lucas can do well here), two MC where one is a deep lying playmaker and the other is an advanced playmaker on support, two inside forwards on attack (Ibe and Lallana/Coutinho), a lone striker as a F9 (Ings or Firminho/Benteke).

Team instructions:

Away games in premier league: Counter/Fluid. More direct passing.

Home games in premier league: Control/Fluid. Pass shorter, close down more, play out of defence, work ball into box.

[steveshaw1983]

I have done them again mate. Didn't realise they disappeared if you deleted them from imgur.

Hopefully you can see them now and see what I've done

[Blinklys]

Ok, it makes it easier to see what you want to achieve.

First glance it doesnt look too bad, really. I dont think you need major tweaks to improve.

I do think however that your central midfield is a bit too conservative. Having both MC on defend duty can be important in a 4-2-3-1, but in a 4-4-2 you can afford to have at least one MC on support. Maybe a box to box midfielder (strong option for home game at least) or an advanced playmaker on support. Try Lucas as the CM on defend and Can/Allen as advanced playmaker support.

Fluid is a good option I think.

At home I would try Control because most teams will sit back and keep men behind ball.

Away it depends on a few things. Against even or stronger teams I would play Counter with more direct passing.

[steveshaw1983]

The only reason I have gone for the 2 CM's on defend is because I am playing a wide playmaker on attacking. His role is to come inside and sit between the midfield and strikers and create chances from there. The gap that he leaves I want my wingback to fill and get crosses into the box.

Does that make sense haha?

I did consider going with control so I may try that in my games against weaker teams. I used to play counter all the time but if I play that against bigger teams would I not just be inviting them on to attack me?

[Blinklys]

And just a tip: Milner can do very well as a WM (A) with PI sit narrower. Combine that with Clyne as a FB/WB (A), and you have a pretty strong set up.

[Blinklys]

The only reason I have gone for the 2 CM's on defend is because I am playing a wide playmaker on attacking. His role is to come inside and sit between the midfield and strikers and create chances from there. The gap that he leaves I want my wingback to fill and get crosses into the box.

Does that make sense haha?

I did consider going with control so I may try that in my games against weaker teams. I used to play counter all the time but if I play that against bigger teams would I not just be inviting them on to attack me?

Sure a WP (A) will need defensive balance, but Coutinho might be even more effective with a support duty. Even so, you can have a CM on defend behind him with an AP support, alongside and then a WM (A) to the right. I would give it a go, try to watch a few games on full or at least comprehensive and take notes when you see something is not working, like players beeing isolated without passing options or just misplaced passes. For this reason I always keep a save on FM classic or FMT as it's called now, because you can change tactics pretty much all the time (does not have to be fluid), and then you can see if its actually working.

[Roy Race 9]

have you had a look at this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/438786-Counter-Attacking-Devastation-in-Football-Manager-2016

there is a 4-4-2 option which I intend to adapt in a Utd save, but going to get 1/2 flying wingers...so wont be keeping mata:D the speed of a slug and upper body strength to match

[steveshaw1983]

Sure a WP (A) will need defensive balance, but Coutinho might be even more effective with a support duty. Even so, you can have a CM on defend behind him with an AP support, alongside and then a WM (A) to the right. I would give it a go, try to watch a few games on full or at least comprehensive and take notes when you see something is not working, like players beeing isolated without passing options or just misplaced passes. For this reason I always keep a save on FM classic or FMT as it's called now, because you can change tactics pretty much all the time (does not have to be fluid), and then you can see if its actually working.

Will give that a whirl mate

[steveshaw1983]

have you had a look at this http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/438786-Counter-Attacking-Devastation-in-Football-Manager-2016

there is a 4-4-2 option which I intend to adapt in a Utd save, but going to get 1/2 flying wingers...so wont be keeping mata:D the speed of a slug and upper body strength to match

No, I hadn't seen that. Will have a look over it. Looks like a good read

[Overmars]

Sounds like your CM(d)s are doing exactly what you told them to do. If you want them involved more then give them the freedom to do so. The Pairs and Combinations thread explains it better than I can, but you should probably pair a support duty with a defend duty when playing 2 CMs with 0 DMs.

[Kuldaniss]

Rather than trying to copy other tactics which may not work with your players, it would be better if you tried to make yours work exactly how you want it to. I'm not sure exactly what you want, I know you said that you want to dominate possesions against weaker opponents and things like that, but you need to understand that 442 is not the best shape at winning possesion. One of the shape's strengths is the wide play but the biggest weakness is the centre midfield. You dont have a defensive midfielder and most of the times you will be up against 4231 and 433 which have 3 centre midfielders and the battle for possesion will be won by them.

I'd suggest reading some of Cleon's posts, he knows a lot about 442 and last year he had a thread where he discussed differents ways of playing a 442, along with it's strengths and weaknesses. I also recommend thinking about every team instructions you have and try to understand why you picked them and why you find them necessary. Most of all, try to realize exactly how you want the team to play because " dominate possesion against weaker opponents " is not enough.

[Cleon]

This thread is all about the 442 and should give you a real insight into how you create one and maintain it.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/403153-Building-A-Tactic-From-The-Beginning-And-Maintaining-It-Long-Term

Basically what I want to do is create a possession based game as I want to dominate games, particularly against smaller teams.

442 isn't a shape you'd ever use to create a possession based style. For something like possession you'd need a tactic that allowed for domination centrally or at the very least, one that doesn't get out numbered. A 442 gets outnumbered by almost everything centrally. So you either need a rethink of the shape you want to use or instead focus on creating good chances rather than possession as you'll not achieve it constantly. So you have a big choice to make here.

Central midfielders playing extremely poor. Now I know it is not because they are poor players, they simply can't be involved in the game enough.

Are you really surprised? They are both on defensive duties so will just be sat back.

Low scoring games against weaker teams and suffering alot of draws. I have found that I am able to get draws away at the likes of Man City and Chelsea etc with the formation though.

Big sides automatically give up space for you to exploit, the lesser sides don't and then it relies on your tactic being able to create the space. In the system you currently use with the roles you do, I can't see where the front 2 get the support from? If your winger has a bad game then there is no supply. Your playmaker on the flank will be isolated outside at times because apart from the strikers he has no-one to create for. I can't see why you've gone for this role when he has no support round him or players running alongside/beyond. It seems a waste.

I know people say look at the match in detail which I have tried but I struggle to spot what others may see as obvious problems. Afterall, I am a goalkeeper

I don't buy this line at all when people post stuff like this. It doesn't matter what position you play in real life or what experience you have playing FM. Everyone can tell if their centreback is to far forward, everyone can see if their striker isn't getting service, everyone can see if their wingers aren't tracking back and so on. It's not hard to see, you just pause the game at random times and look at positioning etc. Even use the analysis tab to view the incidents back.

[Frank Button]

This thread is all about the 442 and should give you a real insight into how you create one and maintain it.

Sorry, is there a link to the thread which I am missing?

Or can you post the link to the thread please?

I am trying to create a 442 in my Hansa Rostock save, so it would be a great thing to read...

[Cleon]

The link is in the post, I've edited it to make it more clearer

[Kuldaniss]

I'm glad that you responded to this, Cleon. Last year I was in a similar position to the op here and reading your thread made me understand the 442 really well and realized what I could accomplish with it. Just like you said and I said in the previous post, if he wants to win the possesion battle I think that a 4231 would be better suited and the Liverpool squad should be fit for that, if you rotate Benteke and Sturridge or make Sturridge an IF on the left side.