EdH1977 Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Hi, I have got my counter attacking formation working really well, but what should I do when I want to be more attacking, just tweak my counter tactic or change to control / attack? If I do change can I keep my direct counter tactic or should I change an try and play shorter retention style football? Thx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingwangwong Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 If it's working well, why do you need to change it? I'm assuming that "working well" means winning games, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah bascially winning games and not leaking goals which I did last year! But in most of the guide it says if you are a stronger team then a more attacking mentality it needed and I guess I couldnt just change counter to control and that I would have to tweak some of the instructions... o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingwangwong Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah if you read the Lines and Diamonds guide, it details the changes in the mentality of each strata of players as you move from defensive to attacking. Just keep in mind that Counter doesn't mean it's less attacking than Attacking. Looks weird now that I type it lol, don't know how to put it another way. Besides, winning games AND not leaking goals? Really couldn't ask for more there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share Posted November 6, 2015 Ah ok I will have a read... thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 Yeah bascially winning games and not leaking goals which I did last year! But in most of the guide it says if you are a stronger team then a more attacking mentality it needed and I guess I couldnt just change counter to control and that I would have to tweak some of the instructions... o Don't blindly trust everything you read in the "guides". I'd actually suggest that the idea that a stronger team should use a more aggressive mentality is wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 I changed my formation a little and started again, I am playing touch not the full FM and as suggested by RTHerringbone I didnt listen completley to the guides, just setting up my basic tactic with what they outlined and then tried a few things that they advised again... so I am 2 games in with Newcastle, first 2 games are away to Palace and Liverpool. We beat Palace 3-0 and Liverpool 2-0... the opposition have changes but as I play narrow they tend to be out wide, not sure how I would fair against a team with a tall target man as crosses may lead to goals against... anyway my team is 4-4-1-1: GK-D-Krul FB-S-Janmaat CD-D-Coloccini CD-D-Mbemba FB-SHaidara WM-ASissoko DLP-S-Anita CM-D-Tiote WM-A-Thuavin AM-A-Winjaldum F9-S-Cisse Instructions: Counter / Structured Higher Tempo / Fairly Narrow / Slightly Deeper / Closing Down More / Stay On Feet / Exploit The Middle / Play Out Of Defence / More Direct Passing / Work Ball Into Box / Stick To Positions... So some of those such as play out of defence / exploit middle tend to get against the guides, so I might try tweaking them as I go, but the wall works well seems to generate ball retention but in the final 3rd so you still get the fast attacking approach. Also in the postions most would not have a F9 but I tried TM and DLF and F9 defo got the best results, Cisse scored all three against Palace and should of had a couple against Liverpool... I havent signed anyone yet and some players like Thuavin need re-training for the WM position so happy with how it works, against both I changed to Defensive for the last `10 mins, no other tweaks and it closed the game out. Just need to look at how I can change it for when I am the stronger team, got Bury in the cup so it will be a good test. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mansfield Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I always tend to play with low tempo and haven't really attempted high tempo tactics just from the overview you have given, surely your narrowness, high pressure and directness must really overwhelm poorer teams. As for the F9, could an advanced forward on attack work? I would assume that with the F9 role Cisse and Winjaldum get in each others way, removing a passing option. Also, how is your home and away form ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 [quote name=As for the F9, could an advanced forward on attack work? I would assume that with the F9 role Cisse and Winjaldum get in each others way, removing a passing option. Also, how is your home and away form ?[/quote] I wanted a more support forward so tried DLF, TM-S and F9 the first 2 were to static for me and they tended to be closer to my AM, the F9 seems quite dynamic in that it drops either side of my AM unless my AM has ran passed him then he drops into the space, works really well so far (only 4 games in)... in terms of results beaten Palace 3-0, Liverpool 2-1 (they got a goal in injury time after I posted the result previous), beat Villa at home with 10 men 1-0 and beaten Bury in the cup 2-0... so only conceeded 1 goal in four and scored 8. The narrowness (as per the pairs and combinations post) keep the defence solid, but I do give up chances out wide at times! I think to get this to work in a Control style with low tempo and shorter passing and I am going to probably have to change the roles... working on that now by re-loading the Bury cup game and seeing how different bits work in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mansfield Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I would assume that playing narrow with a low tempo will leave very little space to attack into. Interested to hear how this works out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Just thought I would update this, I tried a few different things and took some of the feedback, this is working (albeit after 4 games!) and to be honest not sure if it is just a lucky run or not... Formation 4-4-1-1 GK-D FB-AU CD-D CD-D FB-AU WM-A BWM-D BWM-D WM-A EG-A F9-S I use control and counter depending on whether I am the stronger team, Control instructions are: Lower tempo Balanced width Slighty deeper defensive line Somtimes closing down Stay on Feet Play out of defence Mixed passing Retain possession Work ball into box Look for overlap Stick to positions Only think I change for Counter is tempo to Higher and removing retail possession... I change whether I play through the middle or down the wings depending on the oppositions formation. Results so far are (playing as newcastle): Won 1-0 Bournmouth - Home Won 1-0 Leicester - Away Won 2-1 Man Utd - Home Won 2-0 Bolton - Home (League Cup) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 That midfield is interesting. I would assume that when the WMs advance that the BWMs can be a bit of a liability? Aren't they getting dragged all over the place or do you see them holding reasonable shape? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I thought they would as well RTH but I think the more sitting off approach seems to work ok / restrict this somehow, I have just drawn 2-2 away to Everton who are top of the league, both of their goals (and the goal Man U scored) came from free kicks, so thats 5 games and no one has been able to score in open play... I was kinda trying to match Man City in real life who play with Fernando and Fernandino as two defensive minded CMs, will see what happens after the first season... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Would be good to hear how that progresses, because one of the FM mantras is that you can't get away with a BWM in a midfield two unless he is supported by a more stationary player. If you can debunk that one, it would be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Yeah I tried this last year and failed, only way I could get 2 defensive CMs was to play CM-D and BWM-S, even then it wasnt great... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdH1977 Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 I have had some progress with this tactic, I got rid of the 2 x BWM as my team was far to open as suggeted by RTH, so everything is the same except I play the midfield triangle with CM-D, DLP-S and an AM-A, so I have more creativity with the DLP while still having 2 centre mids who protect the CDs, plus I have an extra body in the box with the AM. Played 21 games, won 16, drawn 1 and lost 4... top of the table going into January by 7 points and with the best defense in the league. Other change I made was I no longer change the playing direction, I always go through the middle... but if I play a team which have greater numbers in midfield I change width from Balanced to Fairly Narrow, this seems to counter their advantage, also I play with lower crossing due to my small quick striker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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