Lolo685 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Where by when managing a semi-pro team players from overseas or even another region of the country you're managing in will refuse to sign for you? Even though this commonly happens IRL all the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 That change was made for either FM13 or FM14. As for it happening irl do you have a selection of examples to evidence that players will move to a new country to play part-time football? I imagine it'll more likely be a case of players moving to a new country for their full-time occupation & then being picked up by a local part-time club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolo685 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 That change was made for either FM13 or FM14.As for it happening irl do you have a selection of examples to evidence that players will move to a new country to play part-time football? I imagine it'll more likely be a case of players moving to a new country for their full-time occupation & then being picked up by a local part-time club. I meant for the case in FM16 Former Liverpool keeper Chris Oldfield playing for Hume City in the Australian 2nd division Numerous Balkan and African players playing in the Faroe & Icelandic leagues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 It was definitely more fun pre FM2013 but maybe it made the game too easy. Very interested to see how the realism checks out, in Belgium you see the same thing, a lot of foreigners playing in the 3rd and 4th division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I wouldn't say that constitutes evidence that it's commonplace to see players moving overseas to specifically to sign for a part time football club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I meant for the case in FM16 Former Liverpool keeper Chris Oldfield playing for Hume City in the Australian 2nd division Numerous Balkan and African players playing in the Faroe & Icelandic leagues? Unless you are saying Chris Oldfield moved to Hume in order to play football there, as opposed to other work/family commitments, then it isn't relevant to FM. Likewise, I assume those Balkan/African players in Iceland/Fareoes moved for reasons other than the income they get from part time football. The point is that people do not move country in order to get a few hundred pounds a week to play football. They move country for reasons of family, lifestyle or income (from non-football jobs). Once they have moved, they may choose to play part-time football, but that is not the reason they move. FM partially reflects this. It reflects the lack of interest to move for footballing reasons very well, and in the "based country" field of the database it reflects players who have already moved in real life. The only missing link is players moving country for non-football reasons and then becoming based in a new country and available to part-time clubs there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endtime Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 From what I've read in interviews with Polish players who moved to the Faroes or Iceland, they moved for purely footballing reasons and got their other part-time jobs from the clubs or their sponsors; e.g. a player who plays in Iceland got a second job as a groundskeeper for his club, while a player who plays in the Faroes works for a car dealership owned by the club's chairman. Another thing is that semi-pro clubs can't offer full time contracts at all, even if they can afford it, or that players are willing to accept full-time contracts on wages lower than they would get on a part-time contract. I understand the need to balance the game and eliminate exploits based on signing low-reputation foreign players, but the fact that foreign players will not sign for semi-pro clubs, ever, is just not realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 From what I've read in interviews with Polish players who moved to the Faroes or Iceland, they moved for purely footballing reasons and got their other part-time jobs from the clubs or their sponsors; e.g. a player who plays in Iceland got a second job as a groundskeeper for his club, while a player who plays in the Faroes works for a car dealership owned by the club's chairman. Another thing is that semi-pro clubs can't offer full time contracts at all, even if they can afford it, or that players are willing to accept full-time contracts on wages lower than they would get on a part-time contract. I understand the need to balance the game and eliminate exploits based on signing low-reputation foreign players, but the fact that foreign players will not sign for semi-pro clubs, ever, is just not realistic. That point again is that they are moving for full-time employment/wages then, even if this is via two part-time jobs both provided by the club. The extra income from the car dealership is the critical point which makes moving country worthwhile. There really aren't many examples of a real player moving country, solely for part-time wages, which is what the game represents. There are various ways in real life of incentivising players to move, which are usually about paying them via other means, such as second jobs, or free housing etc, these can only be reflected in FM through wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endtime Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 This is still ignoring the fact that players will outright refuse to discuss terms with semi-pro clubs. Some bigger clubs in Iceland can offer upwards of 1000 pounds per week on semi-pro contracts, which amounts to a monthly salary much higher than the median in that country, so an amount that will allow the player to live comfortably. This isn't an issue of players not wanting to move because they're not offered enough money, it's an issue of players not even wanting to discuss terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I wouldn't disagree with that point, you should get the player saying "you need to make me an amazing offer in order to emigrate" or words to that effect, and only consider moving for a (relatively) massive amount of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I wouldn't disagree with that point, you should get the player saying "you need to make me an amazing offer in order to emigrate" or words to that effect, and only consider moving for a (relatively) massive amount of money. I would love that feature. But SI should need to calculate the median wage in the country of origin and the median wage in the country where the player is going to play. Doesn't seem easy for me as there are also others factors involved like social security, chance of gaining citizenship, housing costs in the area. Despite that it would impact very few players, these "special players" give a lot of flavor to a save. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolo685 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 According to this article http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33052020 It seems like most of these players are there in search of a contract/stepping stone rather than moving there for a job then football on the side Here are some excerpts Twenty-five foreigners - from 14 countries including Brazil, Nigeria, and the United States - have played in the top division this year. So why do they migrate to this rocky outpost, where crowds are sparse and the average temperature in summer is only 13C? Their answers reveal much about the shrinking world of modern football, where players will go anywhere - even 62 degrees north - for a contract "My agent said: 'If you're prepared to move anywhere in Europe, I can find you something'. Last year he told me about the Faroe Islands." Adu went to the Faroes for a week in August to see the club, TB. Impressed by the welcome, and the history, he agreed to sign full-time. He now lives in a house with three other foreign players - two Icelanders and one from the Ivory Coast. "After my first year with B36, in 2004, I went home and didn't want to come back," says Santos. "In 2005, they asked me to return. I thought: 'It's too difficult.' But the contract was good." "When you're younger, the Faroes can be a first step to playing in Scandinavia, or somewhere else in Europe. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As long as you can offer an above average contract I don't see why players won't at least consider a move rather than flat out refusing 100% of the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nice article Lolo685, love these stories! Must be a though journey to pursue your dream. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemB Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Semi-pro leagues are full of foreigners. Look at Gibraltar, Iceland, Finland D2 leagues. I hope SI will fixe this issue because it makes all these leagues unplayable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Semi-pro leagues are full of foreigners. Look at Gibraltar, Iceland, Finland D2 leagues.I hope SI will fixe this issue because it makes all these leagues unplayable. Unplayable is a little over the top, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hluraven Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Unplayable is a little over the top, no? About as over the top as describing an average of around 2 players per team as "full of foreigners". Given many of those did not originally move to the country solely for part-time football, especially Finland where many moved to the professional levels and then dropped down, which is fully recreatable in FM, this shows FM is now far more realistic than before this tweak. Previously these leagues would quickly move to majority foreign based, which is much further from the truth than the slight decrease in numbers we see now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemB Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Unplayable is a little over the top, no? No. If you cannot sign any foreigners, then you can hardly improve the level of your team and then it is going to be really hard for you to qualify for the Champions League Stage (which is your ticket to the professional status) and without professional status .... you cannot sign foreigners. And if by a miracle you would qualified to the Champions League stage with your full national side, the league will become boring because you will be the only team that can buy players from outside and the difference of level beetween your team and the others will be a chasm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemB Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 About as over the top as describing an average of around 2 players per team as "full of foreigners". Given many of those did not originally move to the country solely for part-time football, especially Finland where many moved to the professional levels and then dropped down, which is fully recreatable in FM, this shows FM is now far more realistic than before this tweak. Previously these leagues would quickly move to majority foreign based, which is much further from the truth than the slight decrease in numbers we see now. "Full" might not have been the right word (sorry english is not my first language) but I can guaranty you that there are several foreigners playing in these leagues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 In this part of the world there are plenty examples of Africans moving to Indonesia (as the FM playable league example) to play football, who are cheated, unpaid and effectively trafficked. Don't think SI would want to replicate that in the game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No.If you cannot sign any foreigners, then you can hardly improve the level of your team and then it is going to be really hard for you to qualify for the Champions League Stage (which is your ticket to the professional status) and without professional status .... you cannot sign foreigners. And if by a miracle you would qualified to the Champions League stage with your full national side, the league will become boring because you will be the only team that can buy players from outside and the difference of level beetween your team and the others will be a chasm. How many part time teams have appeared in the Champions League group stage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemB Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 How many part time teams have appeared in the Champions League group stage? A very few if not zero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruh Roh Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I wonder how many players in the game have like 18-20 for adaptability, and if that could be used to make these kinds of moves possible. It would have to be a very small subsection (in-game) of Africans, Eastern Europeans etc. who both have ultra-high adaptability and are poor enough to play in Iceland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Tom Laskowski Posted November 11, 2015 SI Staff Share Posted November 11, 2015 I wouldn't disagree with that point, you should get the player saying "you need to make me an amazing offer in order to emigrate" or words to that effect, and only consider moving for a (relatively) massive amount of money. Valid and should be taken into consideration. However if they were any good, they wouldn't be playing in the Faroe Islands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolo685 Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 A very few if not zero. Good question, I assume Shamrock Rovers would be the closest thing to a semi-pro team qualifying for a European competition although that was the Europa League in 11/12 Stjaran also came very close last season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endtime Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 By the way, this seems to have been "fixed" in the full version - semi pro teams now sign foreigners. I haven't played enough to say if the AI signs too many or if it's balanced with the number of domestic players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolo685 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 By the way, this seems to have been "fixed" in the full version - semi pro teams now sign foreigners. I haven't played enough to say if the AI signs too many or if it's balanced with the number of domestic players. Maybe it was this thread that done it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabioke Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Maybe it was this thread that done it Would be awesome Lolo685 you have brought up some fine examples! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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