vamp Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 will post later some more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 Good job so far. I'd rather play Götze in the AP position, the DLP is really the most defensive of the 3 MCs. I'd rather play one of the more defensive-minded midfielders at DLP (Xabi Alonso, Javi Martinez, Rode, Kimmich or even Lahm - you have a lot of possibilities with Bayern once the pre-set injuries in the first season are gone). You could also try to switch the AMR role to Raumdeuter if you play Müller there. The Raumdeuter role is basically named after him (German TV analyst and former player Mehmet Scholl started calling Müller the 'Raumdeuter'). I'd use Robben as my first choice as a classic IF there but if/when he gets injured you could get the best out of Müller by changing him to Raumdeuter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamp Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 i have allot of inguries robben ribery badstuber lahm gotze all injured for months and didnt do much transfer at the start buts going good so far 12 won 2 draws 0 lost won all champions league matches and cupmatches to :lol::thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf2009 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I find the DLPs are not playing well in this formation. I've tried several players in the position, and they all average at around 6.8 in rating. Before the update, I didn't have the same problem, so I'm assuming that something has happened with the move to the centre of the pitch, or with the added specific instructions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 I find the DLPs are not playing well in this formation. I've tried several players in the position, and they all average at around 6.8 in rating. Before the update, I didn't have the same problem, so I'm assuming that something has happened with the move to the centre of the pitch, or with the added specific instructions. Don't judge them by their average rating. The DLP role is a bit misleading. He's basically the water-carrier in midfield. He's the one to hold everything together and start build-up play with short passes. He's basically a DM playing in the MC strata (this ensures the other two MCs keep their width, they're too narrow when you only play two MCs). Think of him as a holding midfielder who still has the technical skills needed for buildup play (Michael Carrick comes to mind). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo156 Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 What role to use for my striker, if he can't play the complete forward role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 What role to use for my striker, if he can't play the complete forward role? Depends on what your striker is good at. As written in the OP, I've had success with different types of strikers. If you have a striker who has some technical skills, DLF(s) could work. If you have a bigger striker, AF(a) could work. Just make sure you have 'Moves Into Channels' set as one of his PI, this has proven important to my strikers' success (it works well with the IFs cutting inside). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKB Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I have initially designed these tactics to work with FC Bayern. However, after some testing and tweaking I realized they also work for smaller teams, as I have successfully led Brentford to the Premier League and then into the Euro League with these exact tactics.I've adapted the corner setup from MagicNut - credit to him for that. Basics: We use a 4-3-3 shape with the 3 midfielders in one line, as opposed to using the DMC or AMC positions. This enables our midfield to get more width to defend against opposing fullbacks. We use a high defensive line, so make sure you have good and pacey centre-halves. In attack, the wingbacks provide crosses, the IFs create havoc and the striker should get a lot of easy goals. The tactic usually gets you at least 60% possession and creates a lot of CCC. It will work well against equal or lesser opponents, probably also against slightly better opponents. However, due to its reliance on possession and pressing it can struggle against teams that are a lot better than your team. Tactics: Results with Bayern (one season test save): Results with Brentford (career save): 1st season: Won Championship, gained promotion to Premier League 2nd season: Finished 5th in Premier League, qualified for Europa League 3rd season: Finished 4th in Premier League, qualified for Champions League, won Europa League & FA Cup Team Talks & Opposition Instructions: I leave team talk to my assistant (make sure he has high motivation skills if you do this as well). No OI - never! Training: In pre-season 50% match training, focussing to get the tactics fluent as quickly as possible (use the tactic in all 3 slots). When tactics are fluent I usually change to 30% match training. I switch the focus between 'attacking movement' and 'defensive positioning', based on the upcoming opponent (attack when I play a weaker or even side, defense when I play a stronger side). If you have good defenders you can always train 'attacking movement' once the tactic is fully fluent. Positional Preferences: GK: Just use your best possible GK, if you can choose it's a nice bonus to have a Sweeper GK, as our D-Line plays quite high. Wingbacks: pace/acc is vital; they need to be decent crossers and have solid positioning & tackling; make sure you have a left-footed player at DL and a right-footed player at DR - David Alaba is a role model for your DL. Centrebacks: In a perfect world you use a BPD with good passing skills and a standard CB. If you don't have a technical sound BPD you can also use two CD. Just use any good centre-half, premium should be placed on pace/acc as they have to cover a lot of ground due to our high D-Line. DLP: Doesn't need huge physical stats but he needs good technical & mental stats - think Xabi Alonso or Andrea Pirlo BBM: Needs to be a workhorse with good passing & off the ball skills. Steven Gerrard in his prime would've been perfect in this role. AP: He's the creative mind of the team. Needs good passing and some finishing skills. This is basically an AMC playing in a MC position. Inside Forwards: Need to be speedy with good technical & finishing skills. The PPM 'Cuts Inside' is your friend here. Also it helps if they have 'inverted feet' (right-footed player at AML, left-footed player at AMR). Robben & Ribery have played these roles to perfection in the last 5 years. Depending on your squad you could also change one of the IFs to Raumdeuter. I would't do this on both sides though. This works especially well if you play against a very defensive formation. DLF: Here it's really up to your personal preference. I've had success with big, towering strikers (Andy Carroll, Phillip Hofmann) but also with quicker or more balanced strikers (Saido Berahino, Jordan Rhodes, Robert Lewandowski). If your striker can't play the DLF role you could also change it to F9 or CF. General Preferences: All players (with the excepion of the CD) need to have good passing skills to fit our short-passing style. All players should have at least decent skills at Technique and First Touch. You don't want to give away possession and run into a counter-attack because your midfielder stumbles over the ball. Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/sjbdzo5cjzvh5gt/4-3-3+Burnum_685D2229-4774-4590-8983-1AD2CF33E5C5.fmf Update: For an updated version of this tactic (for 16.2) see post #42. which players to take the corners? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 29, 2015 Author Share Posted December 29, 2015 which players to take the corners? Doesn't matter. Just use whoever your best corner taker is. Personally, when managing a top club like Bayern, I leave that up to my players and don't even set corner/freekick takers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 won the title in first year without doing any transfers and alot of injuries true the season still have to play champions leaque finale against chelsea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vamp Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Doesn't matter. Just use whoever your best corner taker is. Personally, when managing a top club like Bayern, I leave that up to my players and don't even set corner/freekick takers. What about ozil for AP role? i can sign him on a free but he`s 34. stats for finishing and and passing are 13 & 20. quite a few 20`s but pace and acceleration are 9 & 8. my liverpool side is a bit short on players and money which is the worst combination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedelldaya Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 like this tactic. but after a few weeks of using it I always get into a situation where I build up a lot of chances, loads on target. Say 20 chances, 12-15 on target. yet am struggling to score more than 1 goal any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecky Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Started using this tactic with Liverpool and the results are encouraging. Undefeated in the league in 10 matches (6 wins and 4 draws), 3 wins in a row in the Europa League and progressed in the Capital One Cup! But, Nathaniel Clyne as the attacking wingback is surreal (has 16 assists to date)! Anyone having this issue where the rightback is providing so many assists? Lol! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Started using this tactic with Liverpool and the results are encouraging. Undefeated in the league in 10 matches (6 wins and 4 draws), 3 wins in a row in the Europa League and progressed in the Capital One Cup! But, Nathaniel Clyne as the attacking wingback is surreal (has 16 assists to date)! Anyone having this issue where the rightback is providing so many assists? Lol! Not had anywhere near that for me. is getting average of 7.70 rating though even though he`s 32 on mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecky Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Not had anywhere near that for me. is getting average of 7.70 rating though even though he`s 32 on mine. Most of the goals coming from right hand crosses from him! but, the tactic is effective though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeyboyz Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am finding this tactic struggles against a 3 DC and 2 WB formation. Anyone else get this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well first season with liverpool i had to finish minimum mid table and i got 4th. this season hasn`t started that great played 5 won 1 drawn lost 2. pretty much every game i dominate possession with lots of shots on goal even though i`ve switched from control to standard. My last game against bayern. 60% poss, 11 shots 6 on target and drew 1:1. 4231 wide seems to be the one i struggle against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 like this tactic. but after a few weeks of using it I always get into a situation where I build up a lot of chances, loads on target. Say 20 chances, 12-15 on target. yet am struggling to score more than 1 goalany ideas? I've seen this exact problem discussed with some other tactics as well (I think it was in Uwe Rösler's awesome thread). Seems to be game/player related, not tactics related. For me, talking to the striker and telling him you have faith and believe in him has sometimes helped getting him back on the scoring track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 Started using this tactic with Liverpool and the results are encouraging. Undefeated in the league in 10 matches (6 wins and 4 draws), 3 wins in a row in the Europa League and progressed in the Capital One Cup! But, Nathaniel Clyne as the attacking wingback is surreal (has 16 assists to date)! Anyone having this issue where the rightback is providing so many assists? Lol! Yes, the wingbacks usually have the best avg ratings in this tactic. In my Bayern save it was David Alaba (DL), with Ajax it was Kenny Tete (DR), with Brentford I've turned a 19-year-old DR into a star (can't remember the name, think I signed him from Wolves, big and athletic DC/DR type). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evertonmarc Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I've got a right back at Derby who's got an average rating of 8.3 by xmas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am finding this tactic struggles against a 3 DC and 2 WB formation. Anyone else get this? Yes, that is the one formation this tactic naturally has problems with. The IFs get taken away by double-coverage (e.g. WBL & DCL), so the tactic loses a lot of its firepower. Fortunately, that 3 DC & 2 WB formation (usually some form of 5-2-3 or 5-3-2) is not very common in most countries. Unless you manage in Italy (where these tactics are very common) you should only have 1 or 2 opponents using it against you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Awesome news i`ve been given 32m for transfers to strengthen squad so this tactic can work like it should unfortunately i have 5 slots in registration left and can only put players trained at the club. this is why i detest this rule. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Started using this tactic with Liverpool and the results are encouraging. Undefeated in the league in 10 matches (6 wins and 4 draws), 3 wins in a row in the Europa League and progressed in the Capital One Cup! But, Nathaniel Clyne as the attacking wingback is surreal (has 16 assists to date)! Anyone having this issue where the rightback is providing so many assists? Lol! when i said clyne didn`t get anywhere near 16 assists well this season he`s on 15 so far and im only in jan with average rating 7.88. not bad for an old-ish guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 My first trophy using this tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relik Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Very nice tattics I play with Napoli and I wanted to create the 4-3-3 like this but never got to work right you mate nail it is spot on how Napoli is playing atm. Well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Very nice tattics I play with Napoli and I wanted to create the 4-3-3 like this but never got to work right you mate nail it is spot on how Napoli is playing atm.Well done. Thanks. Hope your results are as good as some of the others out here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecky Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Won my first trophy in FM2016 in the Capital One Cup (not bad considering Man Utd, Arsenal and Everton were on my path), shocking 3rd round defeat to Bolton in the FA Cup, into the quarter finals of the Europa League after recovering from a 1-4 deficit in the first leg vs PSG by hammering them 6-0 (Yes, 6-0) at Anfield. Used the same tactic but changed the mentality to 'Attacking. Currently 2nd in the league but 11 points behind runaway leaders Chelsea! Besides Clyne, Coutinho at the Advanced Playmaker position has the highest Average Ratings. Benteke is my top scorer with 22 goals so far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kf2009 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The tactic somehow went Mourinho on me... Been using it since L1 - now this is my third season in PL. First season 9th, second season 4th (and won FA cup). This season - not scoring goals, barely getting posession (a LOT less than previous seasons), not creating chances... Not creating any highlights either. After 8 games in PL, I'm on 18th, 1-1-6, goal difference 6-14. Same core players, tactic fluid, and the few players added should have been huge improvements. Oppositions play either 5-3-2, 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1-wide, as they've done the other two seasons. I hadn't played for a few days, but I cannot recall any update that should have "broken" it either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompeyboyz Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yes, that is the one formation this tactic naturally has problems with. The IFs get taken away by double-coverage (e.g. WBL & DCL), so the tactic loses a lot of its firepower.Fortunately, that 3 DC & 2 WB formation (usually some form of 5-2-3 or 5-3-2) is not very common in most countries. Unless you manage in Italy (where these tactics are very common) you should only have 1 or 2 opponents using it against you. Any suggestions to counteract this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
feche Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 For a possesion based tactic it use too many crosses. Solved changing WB-A to WB-S but the IF-S don't score and depends so much in the CF-S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJSaxton Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Best tactic set that Iv used on this years Football Manager! I'm using Leeds United and yes I've added around 5 players to the starting squad but the results have been absolutely brilliant with this formation and the play from the midfield 5 is absolutely brilliant. League table with 5 to go: And the recent results: I tend not to use the attacking formation that much as I've not had good results when switching to it. But the Standard and defensive formations are perfect. Big games start normal grab a goal or two then turn defensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ced66 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Best tactic set that Iv used on this years Football Manager!I'm using Leeds United and yes I've added around 5 players to the starting squad but the results have been absolutely brilliant with this formation and the play from the midfield 5 is absolutely brilliant. League table with 5 to go: And the recent results: I tend not to use the attacking formation that much as I've not had good results when switching to it. But the Standard and defensive formations are perfect. Big games start normal grab a goal or two then turn defensive. Which version is the best ? 4 3 3 Burnum on 1st post ? Or 4 3 3 Base on post 42 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyBroadband Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hello Sir, just wanted to give you some feedback on this.. I started using the tactic from #42 & it has turned my season around, I love it. Thanks man. I'm in my 3rd season with Schalke in the Bundesliga. Still can't manage to topple Bayern but hopefully 4th season using this tactic all the way may help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 Which version is the best ? 4 3 3 Burnum on 1st post ? Or 4 3 3 Base on post 42 ? The tactics from post #42 are the most up-to-date and designed for ME 16.2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJSaxton Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Which version is the best ? 4 3 3 Burnum on 1st post ? Or 4 3 3 Base on post 42 ? The tactics from post #42 are the most up-to-date and designed for ME 16.2. Correct I achieved those results with the tactics from post #42. And still stand by that this is the best tactic I have used. Some players who have never performed are now absolute gems / seems to really bring out the best in your midfield three players. I've managed to win the Championship first season with Leeds United and now going to see what this can do in the premiership. Will report back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Correct I achieved those results with the tactics from post #42. And still stand by that this is the best tactic I have used. Some players who have never performed are now absolute gems / seems to really bring out the best in your midfield three players.I've managed to win the Championship first season with Leeds United and now going to see what this can do in the premiership. Will report back. Once you gained promotion to the Premier League it becomes easy IMO. You'll get A TON of money from TV deals and just need to spend wisely (which can easily be achieved by getting a lot of young gems from Holland or Belgium - look no further than Ajax for talent...). I achieved promotion with Brentford and made it straight into the Top 5 in my first season in the PL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 Currently testing this on a new save with Inverness Caledonian Thistle. Experimented with another tactic for at the start of the game but it didn't work, so I went back to my base set, which I still think is one of the most functional tactics around. Will keep you updated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlatan11 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Currently testing this on a new save with Inverness Caledonian Thistle. Experimented with another tactic for at the start of the game but it didn't work, so I went back to my base set, which I still think is one of the most functional tactics around. Will keep you updated. The shape will stay the same as 433 base or you will you use the DM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 The shape will stay the same as 433 base or you will you use the DM? Shape will stay the same for now. Honestly, I don't think there will be too many changes to the tactic, as it still performs great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty8787 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 What is this like in LLM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 What is this like in LLM? Works great. The only thing you'll probably want to change is the striker's role as you won't find too many players who are capable 'Complete Forwards'. Depending on my striker I usually change them to either DLF(s) or AF(a), just make sure the striker has 'Moves Into Channels' ticked (green). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlatan11 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Works great. The only thing you'll probably want to change is the striker's role as you won't find too many players who are capable 'Complete Forwards'. Depending on my striker I usually change them to either DLF(s) or AF(a), just make sure the striker has 'Moves Into Channels' ticked (green). Is the updated version ready? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty8787 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Nice one thanks! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is the updated version ready? I've tested a lot with different teams (Bayern, Ajax, Monaco, Brentford, Inverness, Paderborn, Liverpool, West Ham) and I've concluded that there won't be any updates at the moment (unless there's a new patch with changes to the ME). The reason for this is simple - I just don't see how to improve this tactic as it has worked well with all the teams mentioned. However, there is one small adjustment that might be useful if you play lower leagues or don't have a striker that can play as a CF. If you don't have a good CF, just change your striker's role to either a DLP(s) or AF(a) and make sure he has 'Moves Into Channels' active. Other than that I don't have any changes at the moment, just be aware of tactical situations in-game. If your opponent plays a high D-Line you should instruct to 'Pass Into Open Space'. If they sit deep there won't be too much space to pass to so make sure your players don't try too often, instead you should be more patient in possession. One thing that I'm still experimenting with is changing the left MC from AP(a) to BBM(s) with the same instructions as the BBM on the other side. This should ONLY be applied IF you have a very good & creative DLP and two athletic guys who are great at running up and down the pitch. If you have more of those static playmaker types just stick with the AP role (it has worked great for me with playmaker types like Thiago/Götze). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 Just finished my first season with Inverness Caledonian Thistle, using this tactic as posted in #42. We were expected to finish 7th and came in 2nd, only behind Celtic (no shame in that). I didn't make any transfers, just went with the custom ICT squad. I changed my striker role based on who was playing (as described in post #92). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Im still using original tactic. ive tried others but i keep coming back to it. just had game against hull. was 2:0 up and bossing it then ive no idea how but they scored 3 in 63 64 67 mins and i lost. unbelievable!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Im still using original tactic. ive tried others but i keep coming back to it. just had game against hull. was 2:0 up and bossing it then ive no idea how but they scored 3 in 63 64 67 mins and i lost. unbelievable!!! Happens sometimes when your players get too complacent. But those things just happen occasionally in FM16, it has nothing to do with tactics you use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard boy Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Happens sometimes when your players get too complacent. But those things just happen occasionally in FM16, it has nothing to do with tactics you use. Yeah they just switched off. i used team talk telling them to concentrate aggressively i might add. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Have you got a link for the MagicNut corner setup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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