Is there anything glaring in this 4-2-3-1 I'm missing?

[Ghents]

I'm working through some kinks in a 4-2-3-1 and I'm wondering if there is anything glaring that I'm not picking up on. It's giving me some inconsistent results, but when it's on it's on.

Here is my shape:

I play with standard/flexible and my TI are: pass shorter, run at defense, play out defense, high tempo, work into box, close down more, higher line (one above normal), mixed crosses, pass into space, get stuck in.

I've toyed with dropping the CM-D to be a DM-D, but it seems to bunch too much with the CBs. My general idea was to have everything funnel to the RPM and EN, and then from there they dish to the IF/AF/RMD. Should I undo shorter passing? Is that limiting the ability of what I'm wanting from the RPM/EN? Should I swap the side the RPM/CM-D are on, so the RPM can push a little higher with the RMD finding space?

[Rummy]

I think that your 4-2-3-1 will struggle if you won't play with two holding midfielders (your roaming playmaker will get more forward) - Cleon wrote a great thread about it, look it up in his started threads.

I highly advise you to go for a less aggressive shape (Especially considering that you're an average side in the Premier League). Maybe try switching the AMR/L players to the MR/L positions.

Good luck

[Ghents]

I've thought about sliding the IF-S down to a WM-S, so I will give that a try as well.

I've also thought about going with a deep 4231, moving the RPM to DM and a DM-S or BWM-D, but I'm concerned that will leave too much space in the midfield. Maybe do a combination of both of those, with two DM, and a WM-S.

[stokes_83]

I'm guessing you are giving up a ton of goals against wiht this setup? The formation and roles may be suitable for a world class team, but with newcastle you are going to lose the possesion battle against top clubs and when you lose the ball think of where you players will be on the pitch. You wing backs could be way up field, the playmaker is going to be out of position, and you forwards will be all up field. Teams are going to break on you with only 3 men back.

I've tried an attacking setup like this with a mid to bottom table club as well, and gave up a ton of goals. You simply aren't going to out-score the top teams with this club. You'd be better off getting men behind the ball playing with a standard mentality. The maximum attack roles for that mentality should be 2. You've got 5, and another 2 players that have very attacking roles even though they are on support duty.

I'd go back to the drawing board, and remember that you are Newcastle, and not going to boss the play around the field.

[Ghents]

I haven't really leaked goals unless it's against someone like Chelsea or Man City away, to be honest with you.

I'm in December holding 7th on the table currently.

[davidnio_422]

IMO if youre seventh with Newcastle then that is a good tactic. What seems to work on paper (screen?) doesnt always translate to in match.

Do you score more goals on the break or do you control games more?

[Ghents]

Bigger teams it's a counter, as they're usually controlling possession and my RMD/AF are there for a quick move. Lesser teams it's possession and just battering them with shots. Which is why I'm considering dropping the IF to WM and the CMs to the DM strata. Same principal, I would think?

I'm more trying to tweak it to get some consistency out of it, rather than building a new big team/away tactic. I like having one system and forcing teams to adjust to me.

[bowieinspace]

I would agree with the above sentiment in reading Cleon's thread.

For a 4-2-3-1 this commits a lot of players up the pitch and has too many attacking roles, ruining team shape. Having the two midfielders in the CM strata is fine but they need roles which mean they hold their position, otherwise the team lacks shape.

[Overmars]

I think using two CWB(a) is too bold. I think you need to use DMs or a third CD to be defensively solid when using such attacking wingbacks.

[jujigatame]

That right side is super, super aggressive. I generally avoid giving both the fullback and winger on the same side attack duties.

[1967]

I think that your 4-2-3-1 will struggle if you won't play with two holding midfielders (your roaming playmaker will get more forward) - Cleon wrote a great thread about it, look it up in his started threads.

I highly advise you to go for a less aggressive shape (Especially considering that you're an average side in the Premier League). Maybe try switching the AMR/L players to the MR/L positions.

Good luck

This Cleon thread would be very helpful but I can't seem to find it?

[OLLMEISTER1]

To me it just looks a case that you are far too aggressive down each flank, which in turn will mean you are very prone to being caught out on the counter attack especially against top sides who have extremely good AMLR players like Arsenal, City and Chelsea etc.

Tone down a tad or play defensive wingers against top teams to double up on the Wide attacking players. I tend to play defensive wingers to support my full backs who are under pressure from the likes of De Bruyne, Sterling Sanchez etc.

[swansongs]

I haven't really leaked goals unless it's against someone like Chelsea or Man City away, to be honest with you.

I'm in December holding 7th on the table currently.

Teams may start to adapt to your success in the new year, so be prepared to change things up if results drop off.

I went from 14 games unbeaten to 2 wins in nearly 3 months starting mid-December of my latest first Swansea season.

[Ghents]

I ended up making some adjustments that I've used for 3 matches and haven't conceded. I drew Chelsea away, battered Man City 4-0 at home and nicked Preston in the cup (all reserve squad).

I ended up changing to counter with no instructions, my FB both to FB-S, and dropping the RPM to DM and an Anchorman behind him. Man City couldn't handle the work between my RMD/EN/AF on the counter.

I added a few PI to the fullbacks and wide players but so far I think I've got something.

[Ghents]

Ended up dropping the wide players to WM-S, adding the TI higher tempo, be more disciplined and play through the middle (so my EN will be the focal point) and it's working great.

[treble_yell_:-)]

I think the way to play 4231 ( as we think a lot of EPL teams play) is with 4411 this year.

Having 6 players all positioned in the attacking half of the pitch AND having aggressive duties in the Fb/amlr positions is asking to take some beatings.

[Ghents]

It worked for me in FM15 using a narrow 433 (AMC/two ST) with CWB's h olding the width, but yeah. The AI counter attacking this year is much much more brutal. Which, is good IMO.

You can't just bomb forward. You pay for it.