Coaching Badges

[RoPS83]

I'm interested to know if the FM coaching licences are equivalent to real life? What do you guys think?

I'm about to start a save with Port Vale in League One and the game suggests Continental B licence based on Port Vale's reputation. It seems to me it's a bit unrealistic for a League One club to not have the recommended badge a Pro licence as it's the third highest league in one of the biggest football countries in the world. Most of the other managers in the league have the Pro licence,a few have the A licence, and only Gary Caldwell of Wigan have the B licence. Even in League Two most of the Managers have Pro or A licence.

I come from Finland, a real football minnow, and here it is mandatory for clubs head coach in the First Division to have at least the UEFA A licence. And I can tell, the Finnish first division is miles behind the level and reputation of League One in England. I myself am an assitant coach in my sons junior team, players aged of 8 and 9, and I know some of the more senior coaches have the UEFA B licence. If you go to the level of coaching 13-14-year-old kids, it's almost unheard of for the club to hire a head coach with anything less than the UEFA B licence.

What comes to the other coaching badges in FM there's also some things I don't understand. The Continental C licence? I've never heard of such thing and searching the internet I find nothing. Then, the lowest badge, National C licence. Earlier I started a journeyman save with no badges (got bored with it) and when at my first club I asked for a coaching course for the lowest badge, the chairman said although they agree with my reasoning they just can't find the money for it. That seems a bit weird because the lowest badge is just show up, learn some stuff about keeping the kids safe and that's it. The course is usually free, or it costs just a ridiculously small amount of money.

And finally, I'm also interested to know what thet past playing experience of 'professional footballer in regional level' means (which is the recommendation for my Port Vale team). Almost all the teams in every country in regional level are semi-pro so it kind of contradicts being a pro at that level. I guess it could mean being a pro footballer at a team with regional reputation?

[DrIgz]

Yeah, the coaching badges aren't implemented as well as they should be (although it's not too bad). I have noticed many former players becoming managers in the game, taking charge of clubs in the Serbian top flight, winning the league and then competing in European competitions and they still only have a Continental B License. Obviously, you cannot manage a team in the top flight without a pro license and certainly not in a continental competition.

The Continental C license does exist, in Asia anyway. I'm pretty sure UEFA also has a C License but it's often referred to as Level 2 or something in England.

[OrientTillIDie]

Port Vale are a professional team so you would have to be a pro footballer to play for them. Therefore, if you played for Port Vale and then managed them, you would have played pro football at regional level (I wouldn't say Port Vale are National because they're not widely known/followed)

[dllu]

I'm about to start a save with Port Vale in League One and the game suggests Continental B licence based on Port Vale's reputation. It seems to me it's a bit unrealistic for a League One club to not have the recommended badge a Pro licence as it's the third highest league in one of the biggest football countries in the world. Most of the other managers in the league have the Pro licence,a few have the A licence, and only Gary Caldwell of Wigan have the B licence.

Why doesn't it make sense that you should start a save with the lowest realistic (albeit just barely) badge for a given division? If one League 1 manager IRL has the B licence, the recommendation seems correct to me.

And finally, I'm also interested to know what thet past playing experience of 'professional footballer in regional level' means (which is the recommendation for my Port Vale team). Almost all the teams in every country in regional level are semi-pro so it kind of contradicts being a pro at that level. I guess it could mean being a pro footballer at a team with regional reputation?

Exactly. Think club reputation, not division level.

Anyway, these categories are obviously based on the English league or at least big nations in general. In Denmark, for instance, only the top tier is fully professional - most of the time, as sometimes semi-pro clubs will get promoted. The other two nationwide divisions are semi-pro with a few amateurs sprinkled in, and regional levels (tier 4 and below) are 100% amateur...

[RoPS83]

Why doesn't it make sense that you should start a save with the lowest realistic (albeit just barely) badge for a given division? If one League 1 manager IRL has the B licence, the recommendation seems correct to me.

I think Gary Caldwell is a rare exception, one of those sentimental assignments when a club captain is hired as manager. I'm sure he gets fast tracked to meet the minimum criteria to manage a professional football club.

I'm pretty sure that when clubs in league one, or even league two and conference, publish an open vacancy for the first team managers' job the minimum requirement is the UEFA A licence. The B licence is usually the minimum requirement when you apply for a job in a clubs' academy, coaching young players between 10-16-year old. The UEFA B licence focuses mainly on 8v8 game and thus is generally regarded as an appropriate certificate for academy coaches, not first team managers in a professional club.

Exactly. Think club reputation, not division level.

Anyway, these categories are obviously based on the English league or at least big nations in general. In Denmark, for instance, only the top tier is fully professional - most of the time, as sometimes semi-pro clubs will get promoted. The other two nationwide divisions are semi-pro with a few amateurs sprinkled in, and regional levels (tier 4 and below) are 100% amateur...

That makes sense. I always thought it meant playing in a league that is regionally divided into different groups, like conference north/south.

[RoPS83]

Yeah, the coaching badges aren't implemented as well as they should be (although it's not too bad). I have noticed many former players becoming managers in the game, taking charge of clubs in the Serbian top flight, winning the league and then competing in European competitions and they still only have a Continental B License. Obviously, you cannot manage a team in the top flight without a pro license and certainly not in a continental competition.

The Continental C license does exist, in Asia anyway. I'm pretty sure UEFA also has a C License but it's often referred to as Level 2 or something in England.

I hear you. I'd like if the game could acknowledge that you cannot manage a top flight club on permanent basis with anything lower than the pro licence.

[dllu]

I think Gary Caldwell is a rare exception, one of those sentimental assignments when a club captain is hired as manager. I'm sure he gets fast tracked to meet the minimum criteria to manage a professional football club.

You're probably right.

Also, I agree that it should at least be a requirement for managers in (European) top divisions to have Pro licenses - as it is IRL...

[chocolatecoatedballs]

This is how it is done in Australia - http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/dct/ffa-dtc-performgroup-eu-west-1/Click%20here%20for%20FFA%20Advanced%20Coaching%20Course%20summary_1ghjrko2lzio51cf9buisd2t17.pdf

You might be away for a couple of weeks - month, go back to coaching (as that is part of the assessment process) where you have been given a task to be assessed on. Come back 6-12 months later and get assessed. So FM saying a coach can't coach while doing the course is only partly true, as it is part of the requirement that you are coaching, but you still have to go for full time study for a short period of time.

Australia is different in that each level of football requires a certain coaching badge, or you cannot be a coach for that level, for example - A League and National Premier League clubs (top tier), you must have the pro licence. Adelaide United had a coach that had to be replaced, as he only had a b license at one time, that coach did his badges and came back to coach later on.

Also:

Licence RevalidationFFA Advanced Coaching Revalidations are valid for 4 consecutive years, dated from the year of the course you attended (Part 2 on A Licence and Part 3 Pro Diploma). In order to revalidate their Advanced Licencebeyond the 4-year period, coaches are required to gain 100 points in the 4‐year period of validity. Points can be gained by attending State Conference and the National Curriculum Refresher Course. Candidates whoattend the next level of course will automatically revalidate their existing Licence.

I think that has more to do with the 'National Curriculum' the FFA has implemented and spent about 3 years to develop, though I know of one coach that went to a refresher course and he said he learnt new things.

There are other courses you can do, like community courses for the mum and dad coaches that aren't as extensive, or expensive. Or a skills acquisitions badge, that is more focused on junior/technical skills coaching so the kids can do their Cryuff turns, amoungst their Brazillian step overs.

[dllu]

Pretty much the same in Denmark as I understand it (and therefore, I assume, in other UEFA countries). The courses are intensive and long-distance where you have to go and do a residency and some exams maybe a couple of times over typically a 6 month period - which can be fitted into the weeks where there are no matches (e.g. international breaks). So if for instance a manager is promoted with his club to the top tier but lacks the Pro license, he will get a dispensation but be required to take the course during the first half-season.