Recreating Martin O'Neil's Aston Villa

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

I've been wanting to start a long term thread on here for a while but have been struggling for inspiration. For the past few years I've played purely on the counter - my test save with Villa this year, for example, was a 4411 counter that got me a 4th place finish with no signings in the first season. But while I've been reasonably successful I've never felt like I've done anything worthy of a post.

Wracking my brains for inspiration I didn't need to look much further than my beloved Aston Villa. We are awful at the moment, truly awful, and it got me to thinking about the last time we were any good, which was around the time charismatic manager Martin O'Neil had us challenging for fourth.

Now I'm under no illusions, MON wasn't a great manager for sure. His tactics were rudimentary his signings were shocking (£10million on Reo Coker?) and eventually it all fell apart. But for a while there it was fun to watch. There aren't many tactical articles around that time about his team, but from what I've read and what I can remember from watching / going to games we lined up a little like this:

Before Emile Heskey came along and ruined it all we had a nice 451 / 433 going. Carew was the big man up front (FM = TM support), tasked with holding the ball while Young (FM = Winger attack) terrorised on the left and Gabby (FM = WM attack or IF attack) got up in support.

Further back a midfield trio of Barry (CM / DLP s), Milner (B2B) and Petrov (DM / Anchor) was solid with Petrov and Barry doing the holding while Milner got froward more. At the back, a solid back four of veterans who could deal with pressure and crosses into the box. Cuellar was a centre back playing at right back and Warnock on the left was more of a classic fullback. The football was dynamic. Direct, attacking, focussed on wing play and tempo with the target man the fulcrum. Villa also countered very effectively.

So how does this translate to FM?

Mentality There's only one choice really here and that's Attacking. Villa countered, but they were risk takers, direct, British style football played at a fast pace. I really can't see past Attacking for this.

Shape I remember WWfan using MON as an example of a manager who'd use Very Rigid somewhere before, and I entirely agree with this. Villa were never exactly a flair team. Instead team shape and structure were important.

TIs This is tough. I think the likes of Tight Marking or Get Stuck IN would be a good fit. So too Pump ball into the box and Drop deeperhowever I don't have a huge amount of experience with the attacking mentality so will take my time and will happily take suggestions here. I also want to play with More Direct passing but seeing as how Attacking is pretty direct anyway I don't want to toy with it too much.

Formation This is the hardest part for me. I don't feel like a flat 451 will work with an attacking mentality and Very Rigid structure (space between the lines) and I fear a 41221 will leave me exposed down the wings. As a result I'm leaning towards an asymmetrical 4141 with the current Villa squad that looks a little like this:

GK (d) - Guzan

FB (D) - Richards

CB (D) - Okore

CB (D) - Clark

FB (s) - Amavi

Anchor (D) - Sanchez

DLP (s) - Westwood

B2B (S) - Gueye

W (A) - Grealish

IF (A) - Agbonalhor

TM (S) Gestede

I haven't even fired up the game yet, but am using this as an exercise in laying out my thinking and building up something I've never tried before. What I'm hoping to accomplish is direct football:

1. We use our big target man as an "Out ball" and as the fulcrum for all attacks. Playing off of him we have two fast, dynamic players buzzing around trying to feed off of the scraps. Grealish will be my Ashley Young, a left winger running from deep, sometimes crossing, sometimes cutting inside (His PPMs are perfect for this). Gabby and Ayew will be my IF tasked with getting closer to support Gestede with goals.

2. I have a midfield engine (Gueye) who gets forward to add a third attacker. Sanchez will be my anchorman, tasked with recycling possession and keeping things tight, and Westwood will be my DLP (s) / CM (s).

3. At the back we're solid if unspectacular. We will be one dimensional, but hey so was MON.

So that's my thinking. Watch this space for updates but please feel free to chime in if you have any thoughts...

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

Reserved

[Deisler26]

Good luck!!!

[Jean0987654321]

Hmm...I'd only changed the roles in midfield. James Milner certainly wasn't a creator from deep when I watched him. Barry might not be either. I'd even streched it to say that Miler was a CM (a). Similar to his role now at liverpool. Running the channels often and a forward option. Barry was a left winger and even a left back once upon a time. He was moved into center mid due to his defensive contribution protecting that left wing when Ashley Young attacks just like his role today so maybe BWM (d)? I'd even say that Stan was like what Carrick was for us. A DLP (d). Of course, the real problem is that I'm using my memory here there's not many sources out there for this info so you have to watch the games again, I guess

[TheGhostofPaulLambert]

Hmm...I'd only changed the roles in midfield. James Milner certainly wasn't a creator from deep when I watched him. Barry might not be either. I'd even streched it to say that Miler was a CM (a). Similar to his role now at liverpool. Running the channels often and a forward option. Barry was a left winger and even a left back once upon a time. He was moved into center mid due to his defensive contribution protecting that left wing when Ashley Young attacks just like his role today so maybe BWM (d)? I'd even say that Stan was like what Carrick was for us. A DLP (d). Of course, the real problem is that I'm using my memory here there's not many sources out there for this info so you have to watch the games again, I guess

I know where you're coming from with Milner, he did score a lot of goals that year, but I'm not sure he was a CM (A). Actually I've been reading a lot of pieces about him signing for Liverpool which reference that season at Villa. A lot of talk about box-to-box and natural successor to Gerrard which makes me think I'm on the money. With all due respect I'm also not sure I entirely agree with Barry as a BWM, he just never really had the legs for it. A great defensive player yes, but not a BWM. Your idea about a DLP d is an interesting one though for sure.

As you say memory is not the most useful tool to work from but I'll update later when I've played some games...

[ianscousemac]

Why would anyone want to recreate that awful football ?

[Jean0987654321]

Why would anyone want to recreate that awful football ?

Well, I've emulated a few of those...and I guess I love it bad??

[Jean0987654321]

I know where you're coming from with Milner, he did score a lot of goals that year, but I'm not sure he was a CM (A). Actually I've been reading a lot of pieces about him signing for Liverpool which reference that season at Villa. A lot of talk about box-to-box and natural successor to Gerrard which makes me think I'm on the money. With all due respect I'm also not sure I entirely agree with Barry as a BWM, he just never really had the legs for it. A great defensive player yes, but not a BWM. Your idea about a DLP d is an interesting one though for sure.

As you say memory is not the most useful tool to work from but I'll update later when I've played some games...

Gerrard was never a DLP until his last days as a Red. He was a CM (a). Always attacking the box

[eclectech]

I've been having a lot of fun with Villa, finishing 14th, 4th, 5th, 4th. Tried a similar style with fast, 4-1-2-2-1 wing-based counter attacking but used fluid rather than rigid, which I agree isn't very MoN but it got better results.

CF(s) or DLF(s)

W(a) - W(a)

AP(a)- BBM or BWM

DM(d) or DLP(d)

CWB(s) - CD(d) - BPD© - CWB (s)

Counter, Fluid

Higher Tempo, Fairly Wide, Normal Defensive Line, Close Down More, Mixed Passing, Run at Defence, Exploit flanks.

Wingers both have instructions to stay out wide.

Resulting play is beautifully direct. You normally break up play between the edge of your final third and your 18yrd line and recycle straight out to the wingers. They leg it down the flanks and cross it in as the other one is arriving at the back post.

If you use Traore out right and Amavi on the left you two have wingers with 18/19 pace and acc both capable of rounding any remaining fullbacks.

Last season Traore bagged 31 in 36 games with 20 assists and an AVR of 8.13, which is ridiculous. Now I just need to convince him Aston's a better place to be than Barcelona...

[EuanDewar]

I cant help you at all with this I just wanna say that I love that you are trying to recreate such an obscurely modest team

[bowieinspace]

As a Villa fan I thought I'd put my thoughts in.

The year Villa should really have broken the top 4 was 08/09, I assume this is perhaps the time you're referring to? However the team you use in your OP is more of a hybrid between a few different seasons where the system did change intermittently.

In 08/09 we often did play a 4-5-1, however also went 4-4-2 regularly (especially after Heskey was signed due to Carew's fitness being a little questionable).

Dunne and Collins weren't yet signed, we instead had Laursen and Davies as the primary partnership, with Cuellar and Zat Knight as back ups. Laursen obviously missed a lot of games and Cuellar often deputised at RB if Young moved to LB to replace the poor Nicky Shorey.

In this team, we had Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Barry and Petrov rotating in the midfield spots (mainly the latter two, with Sidwell and RC playing less), and Milner played wide right. It wasn't until Barry got sold that Milner moved central. That coincided with Downing being brought in and he played out wide and switched flanks with Young often throughout games.

The best form of this team was often when Carew was injured and before Heskey was signed. This forced MON into playing a 4-5-1 rather than a 4-4-2 with Gabby as a lone front man. When we played a 4-4-2 we lined up with Milner wide right, Young left, Barry and Petrov in the middle with Carew/Heskey and Gabby up front.

In terms of implementing the team - I would say highly structured, faster tempo, direct passing with a focus on attacking down the flanks. IF on one side with a more conservative winger on the other side. 3 CM's including a DLP (D), CM (S) and also a B2B midfielder (Sidwell/RC role).

Dismal time to be a Villa fan right now

[shaunwwfc]

MON has never ever been a attack minded manager, certainly strategy wise.

I would read Cleon's thread and interpret O'Neill's "style" as set out above by bowieinspace.

I am a midlander but a Wolves fan, but have always took an interest in all midlands side and Villa played some very God solid, fast breaking football then.

I would definatly go with structured/counter. Direct and clear to flanks and go from there.

[johnnyyakuza78]

MON has never ever been a attack minded manager, certainly strategy wise.

I would read Cleon's thread and interpret O'Neill's "style" as set out above by bowieinspace.

I am a midlander but a Wolves fan, but have always took an interest in all midlands side and Villa played some very God solid, fast breaking football then.

I would definatly go with structured/counter. Direct and clear to flanks and go from there.

I'd agree, he's always been quite a funtional kind of guy, and pretty conservative in his tactics... a more likable Big Sam.