How do you think my team should play?

[bowieinspace]

Hey guys.

I'm looking for some fresh eyes to consider how I should set my Athletic team up to play. I feel like I've been looking at it for too long and just need some outside thoughts.

I want to avoid talking about my current system to avoid any pre-existing bias, instead I'll try my best to give you an overview of my players capabilities (I can't sign players to fit a particular play style). Worth noting my youth players coming through fit the existing first team squad fairly well - I don't have any players who will revolutionize the style of play once they come into the side, but I do have reasonable depth coming through.

Team history - Solid champions league side, finished 4th, 3rd and 3rd in La Liga in the last 3 seasons. Not yet gone beyond Champions League knockout round 1.

GKs - Two good solid first team keepers (neither suited to a sweeper keeper role) (Ruffier & Arrizabalaga)

RBs - All rounders - can get forward and support, as well as defend well, but don't excel at either (Ramalho + youth graduate)

LBs - Slightly more attack minded than my RBs, however both full back positions are fairly weak positions compared to the rest of the side and both my LBs are getting older. (Monreal & Balenziaga)

CBs - I have two excellent BPDs here, as well as two back ups who are more suited to a CD(D) role. One of the back ups is likely to be a starter in the next few years. We're not exceptional in the air and pace is average (although neither are terrible by any means), but excellent mental and technical attributes otherwise. (Laporte & Inigo Martinez, backups are youth grads)

DM/CM - I have two great holding midfielders suited to DLP/anchor type roles - both would be considered star players (Iturraspe and Javi Martinez). Both can defend and pass well. My 3rd choice is a B2B type midfielder who is a youth grad and is a world class prospect (currently 2.5 star CA), I also then have a couple of youth prospects who are more holding types coming through who will provide back up in the future. I feel with the depth I have here I'm perhaps leaning towards a 2 man central midfield pairing - I don't have the depth to play 3 CMs consistently.

AMC - I have a more creative type in Unai Lopez (passing and vision 15/16), then Raul Garcia, who is now 31 or 32 and is more of a shadow striker. I also have a good youth shadow striker, plus a youth advanced playmaker type coming through who will be first team players. Unai Lopez can also play in a CM role as a playmaker to give my central midfield strata more depth

ML/AML - I have two inside forwards in Iker Muniain and Ibai Gomez. The latter being more a goalscorer and the former being more a creator. Both could also be retrained as ML's easily. I also have two youth players who will be a very good first teamers in the coming seasons, both are classic wingers natural to the ML position but would become natural AML easily too.

MR/AMR - I have a star player here in Inaki Williams. He's very quick, with reasonable attributes across the board otherwise. He can score and get assists from wide, while also being good in a centre forward role. He is not a playmaker though. Backing him up I have a youth prospect who is a classic winger type with good crossing and dribbling skills.

CFs - ALthough I'm a little short in depth here, I have good prospects coming through and players in the side who can play here as a secondary role (e.g. Muniain, Williams, Garcia). My main strikers are naturally orientated towards an advanced forward/poacher role (both youth grads). I don't have a creative striker type, but I could look at Muniain or Unai Lopez being used as a false nine or DLF (S) in this area too if I went for a 2 man forward line. My top goalscorer last season was Villalibre, who has come through from the B team - he's a solid advanced forward with a solid attribute spread, but no particular skills to mention. My back up is quicker than Villalibre but scores less goals and is a few years younger. Villalibre also has the plays with back to goal PPM.

So Overall with a very solid CB CB CM CM box in the middle, it makes sense to have these players hold a strong block in the middle of the park. However I can also have one CM playing as a runner.

I'm not short of pace going forwards, but my most creative passer is Unai Lopez (15 passing, 16 vision) and if he isn't in the team I don't have a similar passing playmaker who can replace him (although I will in maybe two seasons).

I'm leaning towards an Atletico, Simeone style 4-4-2 as it means my lack of depth in central midfield isn't exposed, and it allows me to use the pace of my wide players/crossing ability, while maintaining a solid central block who can be creative from deeper.

Happy to hear any thoughts and suggestions!

[1967]

The possibilities really are endless, I'm just going to pick up on the Simeone shape you mentioned because I like the inverted 4-4-2.

I think you have too much on the ball quality to go for Simeone tactics. Unless what you have in your head is more similar to Eddie Howe's Bournemouth - so both would mean a flat 4-4-2 with inverted wingers but more possession orientated (Howe) to counter attacking (Simeone). I really like the inverted 4-4-2 and I had a great little save with Bournemouth last year playing that way, so if you like that shape too then I say go for it.

You've ball-players all over the pitch, use them. Play out from the back, and go for a nice fluid shape. You've the relative quality with Athletic to be able to impose yourselves on the other teams fairly easily (aside from the obvious 2). The way I see it, you could have a direct choice between a structured possession set up a la the possession thread, or a more universal approach which was covered very nicely by 1 nil to the ozil last year (Wenger vs van Gaal?). Which would you prefer? I've just mentioned fluidity because (and I don't have the actual attributes to hand) the attacking players that you mentioned (Lopez, Muniain, Gomez etc) to me sound like unpredictable flair types which could see some amazing football being played.

[bowieinspace]

The possibilities really are endless, I'm just going to pick up on the Simeone shape you mentioned because I like the inverted 4-4-2.

I think you have too much on the ball quality to go for Simeone tactics. Unless what you have in your head is more similar to Eddie Howe's Bournemouth - so both would mean a flat 4-4-2 with inverted wingers but more possession orientated (Howe) to counter attacking (Simeone). I really like the inverted 4-4-2 and I had a great little save with Bournemouth last year playing that way, so if you like that shape too then I say go for it.

You've ball-players all over the pitch, use them. Play out from the back, and go for a nice fluid shape. You've the relative quality with Athletic to be able to impose yourselves on the other teams fairly easily (aside from the obvious 2). The way I see it, you could have a direct choice between a structured possession set up a la the possession thread, or a more universal approach which was covered very nicely by 1 nil to the ozil last year (Wenger vs van Gaal?). Which would you prefer? I've just mentioned fluidity because (and I don't have the actual attributes to hand) the attacking players that you mentioned (Lopez, Muniain, Gomez etc) to me sound like unpredictable flair types which could see some amazing football being played.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll take a look at Howe's tactics for some ideas.

Can you link where the 1 nil to the ozil info for a universal approach would be? Would be keen to take a look

[1967]

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/431798-Universality-In-Football-Manager-2015-(Very-Fluid)

The chap is actually called Ö-zil to the Arsenal! Haha sorry about that!

[herne79]

Yeh, sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees and you need to take s step back. Trouble is, asking that sort of question can get you 100 different opinions (err, well, one at the moment ) and you're no better off.

Rather than think about formation at this point, consider what your style of football should be. Athletic have some excellent footballers, who can use the ball well, which suggests a passing and movement type of game. Up top, your best front men are your wide players, not your striker(s), so having them involved more will be beneficial. And of course you have Unai Lopez, your midfield maestro. None of that sounds like Simeone's Athletico to me.

I know you have been reading through Cleon's possession thread, and I think you are on the money there. Take some of the principles discussed and apply them to Athletic. Load up a dummy save on FMT, where there is no learning period to get tactics fluid, and experiment. And formation? I'd probably start with a 4123DM Wide and use the team's strengths to gain the advantage.

Try things out, let us know how you get on.

[1967]

Yeh, sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees and you need to take s step back. Trouble is, asking that sort of question can get you 100 different opinions (err, well, one at the moment ) and you're no better off.

Rather than think about formation at this point, consider what your style of football should be. Athletic have some excellent footballers, who can use the ball well, which suggests a passing and movement type of game. Up top, your best front men are your wide players, not your striker(s), so having them involved more will be beneficial. And of course you have Unai Lopez, your midfield maestro. None of that sounds like Simeone's Athletico to me.

I know you have been reading through Cleon's possession thread, and I think you are on the money there. Take some of the principles discussed and apply them to Athletic. Load up a dummy save on FMT, where there is no learning period to get tactics fluid, and experiment. And formation? I'd probably start with a 4123DM Wide and use the team's strengths to gain the advantage.

Try things out, let us know how you get on.

What do you mean no better off, I basically said the same as you

Decent tip on the FMT dummy save, I never even consider anything other than the full fat game mode.

[herne79]

What do you mean no better off, I basically said the same as you

Decent tip on the FMT dummy save, I never even consider anything other than the full fat game mode.

No lol, i just meant if the OP doesn't know what to do now then having 100 different opinions wouldn't help .

[bowieinspace]

No lol, i just meant if the OP doesn't know what to do now then having 100 different opinions wouldn't help .

Yeah to be honest I was kinda keen to see some options as I felt a bit short of inspiration.

To follow this up a little, I was using a 4-2-3-1 focused on building from the back (play out of defence), at an average tempo and directness (I don't like making passes for the sake of it in the final 3rd), but I felt my 4-2-3-1 was struggling against certain tactical systems and lacked consistency against teams playing an AMC or teams playing on the counter. I've switched to a 4-1-2-2-1 (wide), with my MC's set as BBM and AP (A). It's given me a little more movement through that midfield portion, then I have a DLP (D) behind them who offers good security for the defence. The team is playing in a similar style in that we're fluid+control, and overall possession orientated but not too focused on retaining possession in the final 3rd - I want my team to attempt the through ball and the dribble because they're good enough players to do it.

At the moment our striker is an AF (A) and he does get a little isolated in some situations, but the support to him is generally quite good so it's not a huge issue right now. I need to watch more games to make a further judgement. My forwards are so well suited to playing as AF (A) it's difficult to move away from it.

GK (D)

FBR (S) CD (D) BPD (D) WBL (A) or (S) depending on situation

DLP (D)

BBM (S) AP (A)

WR (S) IFL (A)

AF (A)

If we lose possession they're set to form a high press and win the ball back quickly. My goal is to make the transitions quick if we win the ball back in their half, but if they are pressuring us and we win the ball back around our own box or deep in our own half, we don't rush the ball up too quickly unless an obvious counter is available.

We just played Real Madrid in this set up and created 7 clear cut chances with 54% possession. Massive success.

Then I have my 4-2-3-1 playing a similar style if I feel that formation would suit the game better, with a 4-4-1-1 counter set up if we are really struggling and need to play wide on the counter.

[trajano080]

You could play a strikerless possession oriented system or use one of the "liquid" strikers (TQ, DLF, F9) and play Muniain there.