pheelf Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'm having some difficulty understanding this. I play a 4-2-3-1 Wide with the following roles. Mentality - Standard Fluidity - Flexible No additional team instructions to start GK : Goalkeeper (Defend) DL : Wingback (Attack) DCL : Central Defender (Defend) DCR : Central Defender (Defend) DR : Wingback (Attack) LCM : Central Midfielder (Defend) - Instructions : Swap Positions with RCM RCM : Central Midfielder (Support) - Instructions : Swap Positions with LCM AML : Inside Forward (Support) - Instructions : Swap Positions with AML AMC : Advanced Playmaker (Attack) - Instructions : Close Down Less AMR : Inside Forward (Support) - Instructions : Swap Positions with AML STC : Advanced Forward (Attack) - Instructions : Close Down More My idea initially was to play an Enganche instead of an advanced playmaker as I don't want a defensive contribution from my main playmaker, I really just want him to get on with playing killer passes and crafting out opporunities. My thought was that I have my playmaker off the forward line with runners to the side of him with the Inside Forwards and infront with the AF and having the possibility of recycling possession to the central midfielders or spreading the play by playing it to the wingbacks. The issue I have is that Advanced playmakers make terrible Enganches. I often find that my AMC which have their best role stated as advanced playmakers when placed in the Enganche role have red suitability for the role. I'm slightly confused with this as I thought that the only real difference between the two roles was the mobility of the role. Am I missing a reason as to why such a dramatic difference occurs? It's almost as if I'm asking a striker to play as a defensive midfielder in this case which is really strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The roles suitability is based on the average attributes the player has, that's why it's different it's nothing to do with the roles themselves its the average attributes. You can still use the enganche role though. Have a look at these two threads I did in the past two weeks. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/443436-Meet-The-Enganche(s) and http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/443668-A-Comparison-Enganche-vs-Enganche Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheelf Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 I hear what you say and have read your threads but it still doesn't really make sense to me. If you are saying that it is based solely on the average of the attributes then that makes even less sense. The highlighted attributes for the Advanced Playmaker are: Dribbling, First Touch. Passing, Technique, Anticipation, Composure, Decisions, Flair, Off the Ball, Teamwork and Vision The highlighted attributes for the Enganche are: First Touch, Passing, Anticipation, Composure, Decisions, Flair, Off the Ball and Vision Therefore the Enganche could be seen as a less demanding role as it doesn't really count Teamwork or Dribbling into the determination of the suitability to carry out the role. If that is the case then a well suited Advanced Playmaker should automatically be a good Enganche as there are less required attributes. That's why I don't really understand why the suitability falls like it does. I have a AMC player whose role suitability for the AP is Competent but when I change the role to Enganche it becomes Ineffectual. I don't recall this being an issue in either FM14 or FM15. I'm hoping that it is just a UI bug but if it's not and there is something else going on such as some way in which the roles differ not stated through the attributes (under the hood) then I thought that this would be the place to ask it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TainshyStryder Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Possibly the player has some PPMs that would negatively affect his play as an enganche. I know that wingers suitability will increase if they lose the Cuts Inside from wing PPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheelf Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Possibly the player has some PPMs that would negatively affect his play as an enganche. I know that wingers suitability will increase if they lose the Cuts Inside from wing PPM You raise an interesting point actually and the player has the following PPMs: Does Not Dive Into Tackles Gets Forward Whenever Possible I think the latter is probably the problem considering the role needs to be quite static. I guess I'm either going to have to try and get him to unlearn the move (which my coaches think he's incapable of), replace him or retrain him to play elsewhere on the pitch. Thanks for that though...pretty much cleared it up. To make it easier for the player perhaps in the role description there could be a list of incompatible PPMs. Also maybe when scouting players in the player search an ability to search for certain PPMs would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 It's PPM's and the players overall average attributes that make up the rating of how good someone is at a position. Also the enganche is not a static role like you keep mentioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheelf Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 It's PPM's and the players overall average attributes that make up the rating of how good someone is at a position.Also the enganche is not a static role like you keep mentioning. When I say static, I mean relative to all the other roles in the AMC position not as an absolute. Besides I chose the role specifically because of the reduced roaming which is something you mention in your threads as being an issue especially with trequartistas. I can also see it being an issue with advanced playmakers as they are primed to make a defensive contribution which I don't want. Attacking midfielders and shadow strikers aren't playmakers so realistically the enganche is the only feasible option. Understandably, I expect him to move to evade markers and find space as long as he remains largely in the position I've allocated to him. Similarly the anchor man is considered relatively static but I would expect at least some pressure to be exerted by the player on the oppositions AMC which would require some movement. As you have studied the role quite extensively, apart from Plays Killer Balls Often are there any other PPMs that you would recommend training that would significantly improve a players ability to carry out the role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 To me an Enganche is more like a trequartista than an advanced playmaker. The difference only really being that an Enganche holds his position a lot more. The trequartista tends to go looking for the space to receive the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheelf Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 On further inspection of this I'm actually on to something here...Take the following screenshot as an example... This player has no PPMs which would detract from being an Enganche. This player is Natural in the AMC position and as the Enganche has less attributes required than the AP which he's great at then why the discrepancy? Which brings me back to my original question...is there some hidden attributes that otherwise affect the ability to perform the role which I'm not taking into account that anybody knows of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 On further inspection of this I'm actually on to something here...Take the following screenshot as an example... This player has no PPMs which would detract from being an Enganche. This player is Natural in the AMC position and as the Enganche has less attributes required than the AP which he's great at then why the discrepancy? Which brings me back to my original question...is there some hidden attributes that otherwise affect the ability to perform the role which I'm not taking into account that anybody knows of? It's his average ratings of his attribute make up and its combined with his suitability to the position, role and duty as well as what kind of player he is. So if he's not played the enganche role before then it'll always be lower until he does. Think of it as experience. As his attributes develop and he moves up through the squads and becomes more developed and plays the role then he'll get better ratings for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Actually I just remembered some roles also have a CA requirement to them. The enganche role is one of those impacted by this iirc, hence why he is rated as good for AP but not enganche. Other roles with a CA requirement are F9, CWB, Treq and a few others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWVG Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Now I'm even more confused than before, what do you mean by CA requirement? Edit: Ah, I think I understand. Two players with different Current Ability can have the same RDS as Advanced Playmaker, but not as Treq etc. Right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Now I'm even more confused than before, what do you mean by CA requirement? It means for example a player with lets say 115 CA might have a red rating for it even though he has the attributes for it. While a player with a CA of 125 with the exact same attributes might have a better rating for it. It doesn't mean the player can't play it though. I think it was to limit the likes of the more exotic roles being listed as a players best position for lower leagues. Like I said though, it 100% doesn't mean he can't play that role though. There is no penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWVG Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Ok, thanks, good to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Cleon do you know what the CA requirement is? is it 150 out of the 200? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Cleon do you know what the CA requirement is? is it 150 out of the 200? Nope no-one knows. I guess it's all relevant to the level the player is at though. To be honest though, I'm not sure why we would need to know as it makes no difference to them actually being able to play the role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 ok cool! on a side note, i want to create a pure box finisher..... would i need these as vitals?: Anticipation Finishing Positioning First touch Heading Acceleration Off the ball Concentration Bravery Decisions Technique with the PPM of penalty box player Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheelf Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 It means for example a player with lets say 115 CA might have a red rating for it even though he has the attributes for it. While a player with a CA of 125 with the exact same attributes might have a better rating for it. It doesn't mean the player can't play it though. I think it was to limit the likes of the more exotic roles being listed as a players best position for lower leagues. Like I said though, it 100% doesn't mean he can't play that role though. There is no penalty. Thanks for the response and I'll play him as an Enganche and see how he gets on. I had no idea such a dynamic existed in the game. I can understand it being implemented into the game from a certain viewpoint as it prevents as you say the exotic roles from being listed among the best for young/lower league players but on the other hand it's also rather confusing as the feedback in the game (role suitability) is quite misleading. Do you know which other roles have this sort of CA requirement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlaaZ Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 ok cool!on a side note, i want to create a pure box finisher..... would i need these as vitals?: Anticipation Finishing Positioning First touch Heading Acceleration Off the ball Concentration Bravery Decisions Technique with the PPM of penalty box player Scratch positioning, as it is a defensive stat, and insert composure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 oh damn i didnt realise i left out composure... i was repeatedly saying it as i was typing that lot. Positioning is solely a defensive stat? i was also thinking of tries first time shots as a ppm... I will try and implement these things on a youth player and see what happens!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlaaZ Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Positioning is solely a defensive stat? Yes, positioning is the defensive attribute, off the ball the offensive one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigd84 Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Superb thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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